SOTTREADER
The Living Force
You didn't offend me
. My comment was just a general thought as opposed to a direct response to your comment! I enjoyed reading your comment!
Lord of the Rings
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. My comment was just a general thought as opposed to a direct response to your comment! I enjoyed reading your comment!
Lone herbal witch
Jedi Master
Thank you.You didn't offend me
tschai
Dagobah Resident
Yes- this is hilarious! But soooo true. Thanks for the video.I think I would much rather watch the Babylon Bee's version of LOTR, at least it would be funny
While I have watched Peter Jacksons cinematization of the Lord of the Rings Series (and the Hobbit, which is a part of it) and found it stunning and masterful, I never actually read the books myself. From what I heard, part of the book series is called "The Silmarillion" and this new series is supposed to show at least parts of that book. From those who read the books, I heard that this "Silmarillion" part of the series is apparently the best one of them all (and probably the most difficult to film?). A couple of months ago, an older guy told me that he read the books many years ago and saw a pretty bad cinematization of it in the 70ies, or something. He told me that he thought it is impossible to make a good movie (or movies) out of it because the books are so complex etc.
So, when Jackson filmed it, he refused to watch it, thinking it must be bad. After a couple of years, he watched Jacksons version by accident, while visiting a friend, and, he told me, he was totally stunned and awed of what Jackson made out of it. According to him, Jackson did an outstanding job and was able, to his surprise, to actually cover many of the most crucial aspects of the book, in a masterful way.
So, when Jackson filmed it, he refused to watch it, thinking it must be bad. After a couple of years, he watched Jacksons version by accident, while visiting a friend, and, he told me, he was totally stunned and awed of what Jackson made out of it. According to him, Jackson did an outstanding job and was able, to his surprise, to actually cover many of the most crucial aspects of the book, in a masterful way.
tschai
Dagobah Resident
I tried reading the Simarillion a long time ago and couldn’t get through it. I agree Peter Jackson’s treatment was in keeping with the novels and superb. The characters were all recognizable and while some artistic license was taken, still fairly close to the source material.
Since I have not read the Simarillion I have no reference to judge the current production, however from the reaction of Tolkien fans it is a huge departure and massive injustice. Reminds me of that god awful John Carter of Mars movie.
For those who haven't read - or perhaps once struggled to read - the Silmarillion, you may be missing out on what I found to be the most majestic, awe inspiring and in the end deeply rewarding work of all by Tolkien. It is no LOR by a long chalk, being written in a style akin to a weighty saga - that is, as a historical account as if told by an ancient bard of yesteryear. The style is deliberately austere, detached and literary, making it somewhat impenetrable for those who so love the up close and personal nature of LOR, but what is lost in intimacy and character familiarity is more than made up for by its sheer scale, sweep and depth of singular vision. When I first read it I was just too young and too in love with LOR and as a result struggled like others here, but the second time when much older I found it to be an intensely rewarding experience - and in some senses even more so than the LOR. Taking his world as it does from its very creation through thousands of years of endless struggle and perpetual hope, with love gained, then love tragically lost, kingdoms built up only for kingdoms to be treacherously burned down, right up to and including the events of LOR, the coverage of which from memory formed about 2 pages right at the end its 300 leaves (so that gives you an idea of how much time and how many cycles of hope and despair and hope reborn once more that he generates), it has an almost biblical breadth to it that simply boggles the mind that one single human could imagine so much in one short lifetime. It is a epic of consummate dignity, unrelenting tragedy and yet brilliant soul light, with purple chapters and stories within stories that out do in theme and content even the very best of LOR. So if you are in the need of something really meaty to get your teeth into and are willing to stay the distance to the end, step by step you may find yourself caught up on a journey through near immeasurable ages of time that will leave you moved and shaken by the end: and also a great deal wiser about the reason the elves felt duty bound to fight and fight the long defeat (as they called it) against eternal seeming evil. My tuppence worth.
On a final note, I recently watched the biopic film simply called Tolkien that most critics scoffed at. I was so deeply taken by it that I watched it again the other night on the anniversary of his death and again found it a total joy and a breath of revitalizing air in the face of the Orc stench emanating out of Mord-amazon...
On a final note, I recently watched the biopic film simply called Tolkien that most critics scoffed at. I was so deeply taken by it that I watched it again the other night on the anniversary of his death and again found it a total joy and a breath of revitalizing air in the face of the Orc stench emanating out of Mord-amazon...
tschai
Dagobah Resident
Perhaps time to revisit the Silmarillion- I too believe I was too young to fully grasp the overall meaning of the tome. But first I need to wade through Laura’s latest- my eyes are not what they used to be after 30 plus years of reading architectural drawings and once a voracious reader I am quite a bit slower these days.
Thank you for your concise synopsis, always a pleasure reading your posts.
Long ago I read the Silmarillion which tells the story of the First Age of the World. What we see or read in LOR is the end of the Third Age.
The prologue of the book mentions:
"The Silmarillion are legends that come from a much more remote past when Morgoth, the First Dark Lord, dwelt in Middle-earth, and the High Elves fought against him for the recovery of the Silmarils."
As I read the Silmarillion it came to my mind that Tolkien had taken inspiration from the legends of the arrival of the Sumerian gods (An, Nammu, Innana, Enki, Enlil etc.) and the Annunaki on Earth and the subsequent creation of man.
But is the story told in the Silmarillion what people are going to see in the Amazon series? No. That's why, I think, they've taken a lot of "creative liberties."
lrmonline.com
When Amazon first announced that they were going to be doing a series from Tolkien’s Middle Earth/Lord of the Rings universe, the fanbase exploded with questions about what it might focus on, who it might be about, and when in the timeline, that Tolkien mapped out, it would take place.
Some people thought that the series would focus on early timeline moments from early on in Tolkien’s The Silmarillion, focusing on Morgoth as the big bad instead of Sauron.
The title of the series is The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power. And clearly, the series is going to focus on…the rings of power. “Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky, Seven for the Dwarf-lords in halls of stone, Nine for Mortal Men, doomed to die, One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne.” The series will occur in the Second Age of Middle Earth, after Morgoth’s demise, and as Sauron rises to power (the first time).
However, this still left questions for the fans about what exactly it might focus on. In mid-February of 2022, the showrunners Patrick McKay and J.D. Payne finally announced in a Vanity Fair exclusive what Amazon has the rights to and what they were hoping to accomplish with those rights. And the answer surprised many fans who thought the show would be focused on the events in The Silmarillion.
Amazon doesn’t actually have the rights to The Silmarillion. This means the series will be based on The Appendices at the end of The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King. Which, admittedly, does overlap in stories between the two books, but if it is mentioned in The Silmarillion and not in the Appendices, it is off-limits. And this has to do with the rights from the Tolkien Estate and from J.R.R. Tolkien himself.
Tolkien had never wanted to sell the rights to his books to the movie companies, but he was forced to eventually for the money in the 1970s to Saul Zaentz, and the animated Rankin and Bass productions of The Hobbit and Ralph Bakshi’s The Lord of the Rings (among a few other small budget films) were made. But those were the only rights that were sold. Even for Peter Jackson, he only had the rights to The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. So, for example, when Radagast the Brown was introduced in Jackson’s Hobbit movies, he had to be very careful with not saying that Tolkien had mentioned there were other wizards in Middle Earth (there are, in fact, a few more mentioned in other works) because he didn’t have the rights to it.
www.cultureslate.com
The prologue of the book mentions:
"The Silmarillion are legends that come from a much more remote past when Morgoth, the First Dark Lord, dwelt in Middle-earth, and the High Elves fought against him for the recovery of the Silmarils."
As I read the Silmarillion it came to my mind that Tolkien had taken inspiration from the legends of the arrival of the Sumerian gods (An, Nammu, Innana, Enki, Enlil etc.) and the Annunaki on Earth and the subsequent creation of man.
But is the story told in the Silmarillion what people are going to see in the Amazon series? No. That's why, I think, they've taken a lot of "creative liberties."
What Material Does Amazon Have The Rights To For The Rings Of Power Answered!
One burning question fans have had is what material does Amazon have the rights to for The Rings of Power show? Well we know have an answer courtesy of the showrunners J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay in a recent interview with Vanity Fair. The trade was asking questions fans wanted to know the answers to and this was definitely one of the questions that was endlessly debating among the Tolkien fan base.So what did Amazon buy? “We have the rights solely to The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King, the appendices, and The Hobbit,” Payne says. “And that is it. We do not have the rights to The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-earth, or any of those other books.”That takes a huge chunk of lore off the table and has left Tolkien fans wondering how this duo plans to tell a Second Age story without access to those materials. “There’s a version of everything we need for the Second Age in the books we have the rights to,” McKay says. “As long as we’re painting within those lines and not egregiously contradicting something we don’t have the rights to, there’s a lot of leeway and room to dramatize and tell some of the best stories that [Tolkien] ever came up with.”
What Material Does Amazon Have The Rights To For The Rings Of Power Answered!
One burning question fans have had is what material does Amazon have the rights to for The Rings of Power show? Well we know have an answer courtesy of
lrmonline.com
Why Amazon Doesn't Have The Rights To J.R.R. Tolkien's 'The Silmarillion'
When Amazon first announced that they were going to be doing a series from Tolkien’s Middle Earth/Lord of the Rings universe, the fanbase exploded with questions about what it might focus on, who it might be about, and when in the timeline, that Tolkien mapped out, it would take place.
Some people thought that the series would focus on early timeline moments from early on in Tolkien’s The Silmarillion, focusing on Morgoth as the big bad instead of Sauron.
The title of the series is The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power. And clearly, the series is going to focus on…the rings of power. “Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky, Seven for the Dwarf-lords in halls of stone, Nine for Mortal Men, doomed to die, One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne.” The series will occur in the Second Age of Middle Earth, after Morgoth’s demise, and as Sauron rises to power (the first time).
However, this still left questions for the fans about what exactly it might focus on. In mid-February of 2022, the showrunners Patrick McKay and J.D. Payne finally announced in a Vanity Fair exclusive what Amazon has the rights to and what they were hoping to accomplish with those rights. And the answer surprised many fans who thought the show would be focused on the events in The Silmarillion.
Amazon doesn’t actually have the rights to The Silmarillion. This means the series will be based on The Appendices at the end of The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King. Which, admittedly, does overlap in stories between the two books, but if it is mentioned in The Silmarillion and not in the Appendices, it is off-limits. And this has to do with the rights from the Tolkien Estate and from J.R.R. Tolkien himself.
Tolkien had never wanted to sell the rights to his books to the movie companies, but he was forced to eventually for the money in the 1970s to Saul Zaentz, and the animated Rankin and Bass productions of The Hobbit and Ralph Bakshi’s The Lord of the Rings (among a few other small budget films) were made. But those were the only rights that were sold. Even for Peter Jackson, he only had the rights to The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. So, for example, when Radagast the Brown was introduced in Jackson’s Hobbit movies, he had to be very careful with not saying that Tolkien had mentioned there were other wizards in Middle Earth (there are, in fact, a few more mentioned in other works) because he didn’t have the rights to it.
Why Amazon Doesn't Have The Rights To J.R.R. Tolkien's 'The Silmarillion' — CultureSlate
When Amazon first announced that they were going to be doing a series from Tolkien’s Middle Earth/ Lord of the Rings universe, the fanbase exploded with questions about what it might focus on, who it might be about, and when in the timeline, that Tolkien mapped out, it would take place.
www.cultureslate.com
hahaha I must agree wholeheartedly!
I have felt that way for a while, specially after seeing how 911, or everything they started training people to do then, became really useful during covid, so this recent push in one direction isn't really for this generation, it's for the future ones I believe.It got me thinking that this may be the strategy!
I had forgotten that this film existed, thanks for the reminder, I will be adding it to my list of to watch.
Thanks for your lovely post about the Silmarillion, Michael.. I didn't manage to read it properly as a kid, for the same reasons as you.. now very much looking forward to having another go, some time soon. Sadly my mum's old edition of the book (with flower/stained glass window artwork which used to greatly intrigue me) seems to have been lost along the way, but I got this 1980's copy recently.. not sure if the cover art suits the actual tales or not, but I really love it! Obviously the contents of a book are what's important, but good artwork on the front really enhances the overall vibe for me...
I think Jackson got burnt up with making the hobbit. He had creative freedom and time in the making of the lord of the ring, but for the hobbit (which was bad) he got a lot of pressure from the studios etc.
Benjamin
The Living Force
I think you're referring to the unfinished animated version of LOTR made in '78. It was originally intended to be a trilogy but became a two-part series because of a limited budget. The second part was never made but not because it didn't make money. The film was a box office success. It seems that it was cancelled because, "According to [Ralph] Bakshi [the director], when he completed the film, United Artists executives told him that they were planning to release the film without indicating that a sequel would follow, because they felt that audiences would not pay to see half of a film." Which makes no sense at all because only half of it was made by design and people paid to see it. There is more that happened which spiralled into a muddy mess and the whole thing died.
Yes, it's definitely no more then a 3
movie but I remember watching it on tv in the early '80s. We recorded it and still have it on a Betamax tape. I don't know how many times I watched that movie (many many) but it was my introduction to LOTR. I was maybe 7 or 8. I know it has it's faults (some of them are almost laughable, eg: Treebeard, and the hobbits don't look that good) but there is something about it that's a bit endearing. The battle sequences are quite good, the black riders are effectively creepy, Legolas shows up when he should, and there's no bomb that blows up the wall at Helms Deep. If you've seen it, you'll also understand when I say, it's very '70's.Since then I've read the series twice. The first time I read it in, maybe '88/'89, I listened to Enya's debut album (on tape) non-stop. I kept flipping the tape again and again as I flipped pages. It was the perfect backdrop, imo. After that, I bought Barbara Strachey's book "Journeys of Frodo", David Day's "A Tolkien Bestiary" & "Tolkien- The Illustrated Encyclopedia", Robert Foster's "The Complete Guide to Middle Earth" (1993 ed.) and Karen Wynn Fonstad's "The Atlas of Middle-Earth (Revised Edition). I got into it pretty deep back then.
Anyway, if you haven't seen the '78 version, you can see it here on Archive.org (2:13:00). Sorry if this link has been posted already somewhere (I think it might be).
Lord of the Rings (1978) : xxx : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Lord of the rings classic animation.
archive.org
Oh yeah... after watching the video Michael B-C posted, I am quite disgusted (but giggled a lot). It's an abomination. I won't waste any money or time.
This was my 800th post. Hmm.
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