Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine

[angelburst29]

"CyberBerkut" was succeeded to hack correspondence of confidants of Kolomoysky

Hackers Learned Who Shot Down Boeing In Ukraine.
_http://beforeitsnews.com/global-unrest/2014/08/hackers-learned-who-shot-down-boeing-in-ukraine-2460300.html?currentSplittedPage=0

Tuesday, August 12, 2014

The hacker group “KiberBerkut” hacked personal correspondence of the Ukrainian officials regarding downed July 17 Malaysian “Boeing”. In the correspondence of two lieutenants of the oligarch and part time governor Kolomoisky, as well as the new defence minister of Ukraine Valery Geletey actively discussing Ukrainian fascist AF actions and how the local media should present the circumstances of the crash. Earlier conversations indirectly referring to the doctor who refused to remove organs from wounded Ukrainian National Guard soldiers in one of the hospitals.

Below Transcripts of the converstations.

(2 lieutenants)

25.10.2012 13:19

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Анатолий Степанович, поздравляю вас с Днем рождения! Желаю вам крепкого здоровья, политических успехов, и вдохновения в вашей работе!

Anatoly Stepanovich, I congratulate you on your birthday! I wish you good health, political success and inspiration in your work!


28.10.2012 20:03

Анатолій Гриценко

Щиро дякую вам за теплі слова! Мені дуже приємно!

Thank you very much for your kind words! I am very pleased!


25.10.2013 18:59

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Поздравляю вас с Днем рождения, Анатолий Степанович! Хочу пожелать вам счастья и здоровья! И пусть в ваших делах вам всегда сопутствует успех! Всего самого наилучшего!

Anatoly Stepanovich, I congratulate you on your birthday! I wish you good health, political success and inspiration in your work! … All the best wishes to you!


26.10.2013 12:17

Анатолій Гриценко

Слава, дякую за щирі вітання! Головне – це здоров’я та міцні нерви, а все інше ми завжди зможемо здобути своїми руками, головою та працею!..

Thank, thank you for the greetings! The main thing - it’s a health and strong nerves, and everything else we can always get with our hands, head and hard work! ..


26.10.2013 12:18

Анатолій Гриценко

Як життя? Ти не змінив місце проживання? Здається, ти хотів перебиратись із сім’єю до столиці?

How’s everything? Are still living in the same place? I heard you wanted to move your family to the capital?

26.10.2013 12:47

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Анатолій Степанович, в мене все гаразд! Ні, не змінив. Моя політична кар’єра в дніпропетровську є стабільною, а пропозиція Арсенія Петровича хоча і є цікавою але зараз я не готов кинути все заради того, щоб по суті починати все спочатку

Anatoly Stepanovich everything is fine! No, I didn’t move. My political career in Dnepropetrovsk is stable, although offer from ArsenyPetrovich [Yaitchenyukh], was interesting I’m not ready to give up everything in order to essentially start over


26.10.2013 13:08

Анатолій Гриценко

Звісно вирішувати тобі! І добре, що все гаразд. Передавай мої вітання шефу.

Of course its for you to decide! Glad to hear everything is good. Send my regards to the chief [Kolomoysky].


26.10.2013 13:10

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Спасибі! Неодмінно передам!

Thank you! Sure will!


01.01.2014 22:29

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Вже прийшли до нас морози, І ведмідь хропить в берлозі, Ми вже п’яні, чути сміх, З Новим роком вас усіх!

[x-mas carol] Cold is here, and bear already asleep, we are hearing laughs. And wish everybody Happy new Year!.


01.01.2014 22:32

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

З Новим Роком, Анатолій Степанович! Бажаю вам, бажаю всій країні, бажаю всім нам, щоб в Новому Році ця скотина в короні як найшвидше була скинута зі свого трону волею усього народу! Бажаю в новому році здобути нову, сильну та прекрасну країну! Ще раз з Новим Роком! Слава Україні!

Happy New Year, Anatoly Stepanovich! I wish you, the whole country, and all of us in upcoming New Year that beast [ex. president Yanukovich] will be deposed as soon as possible. I wish for a new, strong and beautiful country! Once again, Happy New Year! Glory to Ukraine!


03.01.2014 19:20

Анатолій Гриценко

З Новим Роком, Слава! Тобі також всього найкращого у наступному році!

Happy New Year, Slava! Same to you, all the best wishes!


03.01.2014 19:21

Анатолій Гриценко

Я приєднуюсь до твоїх побажань, і також бажаю всій країні, щоб вони здійснились якнайшвидше! Героям Слава!!!

Same to you!


19.07.2014 09:15

Анатолій Гриценко

Слава! Якого чорта?! Що ви суки накоїли? Як можна було викласти це відео за добу до проведення операції???!!! Ти розумієш, що «рашисти» його вже передали на експертизу, та запросили з Ютюба дату першого завантаження???

Slava! What the hell ?! What are you bitches done? How anyone could upload this video a day before the operation ??? [MH-17 provocation] !!! You know perfectly well that russians employed experts, and requested from youtube date of the first upload ???


19.07.2014 09:17

Анатолій Гриценко

А ці придурки, які були за пультом в Харкові? У ВАС ТАМ ПАМ’ЯТЬ ПОВІДШИБАЛО?! Я не розумію як так їх ловлять наші хлопці на кордоні з Кримом, хоча їх повинні були відразу затримати саме ваші люди??? Я бачу, ви з Шефом зовсім прихуїли у своєму Дніпрожидовську!!! Петро вас розірве!!!! Я САМ ВАС РОЗІРВУ!!!

And those assholes at the comand center in Kharkov? [Air Defence control center in Kharkov, Ukraine] ARE YOU LOST YOUR FRACKING BRAINS? I don’t understand, how they got cought on the border with Crimea? It was your people??? I see you and your chief [Kolomoyskiy] totally screwed up in your Dneprojewsk !!! Peter will flay you all alive !!!! Screw that, I’ll do it myself !!!


І СЛУХАВКУ БЕРИ, КОЛИ ТОБІ ДЗВОНЯТЬ!!!

AND PICK UP THE DAMN PHONE!!!


19.07.2014 09:25

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Анатолий Степанович, я вам сейчас перезвоню! Я вышел а телефон остался в кабинете, в интернете с планшета. Я вас сейчас же наберу, пара минут.

Anatoly Stepanovich I’ll call you right back! I was out of the office for a second and left my phone in the office. I’ll call you directly.


23.07.2014 17:38

Анатолій Гриценко

Якщо шеф зараз поряд з тобою – дай йому слухавку! Я знаю, що у вас зара нарада іде – так що просто передай йому слухавку! ШВИДКО! Я зараз наберу тебе.

If chief [Kolomoysky] with you, put him on the phone! I know you have meeting right now, thus don’t bother to talk, just put your boss on the phone! DIRECTLY! I’m dialing, right now!


23.07.2014 17:40

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

набирайте

Go ahead


Transcript II (with defence minister)


12.07.2014 23:01

Валерий Гелетей

Это мой профиль. По телефону или скайпу больше такого не спрашивай! И здесь – все только условными фразами. Это понятно?

This is my profile. And never again ask those questions on the phone or Skype! And here also use only code-phrases, is that understood?


12.07.2014 23:03

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Понял. Хотя насчет телефонов я не совсем разделяю вашу обеспокоенность. У нас все согласовано.

Understood! But I don’t agree with extra precautions in phone conversations. Everything is copacetic.


12.07.2014 23:06

Валерий Гелетей

По диспетчерам с твоим шефом мы уже все решили. Он сказал, что контроль будет на тебе. Завтра я пришлю тебе своего человека, и ты должен будешь через него каждый день мне докладывать о ходе всех запланированных этапов подготовки, которые в вашей ответственности!

Reagaring ATC’s we have agreement with your boss. He [Kolomoysky] said you will be curator of the operation. I’ll send my man tomorrow, and you will report to me daily through him about every detail of the preparation process, for which you are responsible!


12.07.2014 23:07

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Валерий Викторович, а человек зачем? Или вы уже решили, что я сбегу и оставлю семью неизвестно у кого?

Valery Victorovich [Ukrainian Defense Minister] why do a need a watch man? Do you really thing I’ll go on the run? and leave my family?


12.07.2014 23:09

Валерий Гелетей

У тебя память короткая. Ты забыл, как тебе передали инструкции? Вот такой же человек, который сможет гарантировать защиту и конфиденциальность твоих докладов мне – завтра к тебе и прибудет.

You have a short memory. Have you forgotten your instructions? He is a man who can guarantee the protection and confidentiality of your reports to me - you will meet him tomorrow.


12.07.2014 23:09

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Хорошо, жду!

Good, can’t wait!


14.07.2014 20:43

Валерий Гелетей

Напоминаю про обещание твоего шефа: сценариев репортажей я от вас так и не дождался! Завтра утром, когда будешь передавать мне отчет, пришли мне сценарии и видео, которое вы сделали.

Let me remind you about your bos’s promise to provide me with copies of the scripts for the media reports. In the morning, with your dayly report do send me those scripts and prepared videos.


14.07.2014 20:47

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Валерий Викторович, шеф задание директору канала дал еще неделю назад! Он гад страх потерял – затянул со сроками! Но сегодня они уже все закончили. Набросали больше 10 сценариев, для разных вариантов развития событий, на первые двое суток. Сейчас работают над следующими тремя сутками. Утром вам все пришлю.

Valery Victorovich, boss directly ordered CEO of TV cnannel week ago to get everything done. HE delayed everything. But today everything is completed. Prepared more than 10 different scenarios depending on actual events to happen for the first 48 hours. Right now working for the news coverages for 3 days more. You’ll get everything first thing in the morning.


14.07.2014 20:48

Валерий Гелетей

И видео не забудь – у меня о нем Петр Алексеевич спрашивал.

Don’t forget to include the video. Petr Alekseevich [Poroshenko, president of Ukraine] specifically asked to see it.


14.07.2014 20:48

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Я понял. Все сделаю. До связи.

Understood. Everything will be done. Catch you next time.


16.07.2014 08:46

Валерий Гелетей

Дальше связь только через наш канал. Человек будет у тебя, пока это необходимо мне. И шефа спроси, почему к нему как обычно не дозвониться, а потом он начинает сам звонить и рассказывать все почти открытым текстом?

From now on any communications only through our [secure, military?] channel. My man will be with you untill further notice, as long as it is necessary for me. Also ask you boss [Kolomoysky] why he is unreachable, and then he will call back on unsecured channel and flap his mouth about everything?


16.07.2014 08:48

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Ок! Без проблем.

Sure, will do.


16.07.2014 08:49

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Шефу тоже передам, но у него же телефон с шифрацией, его не прослушаешь и не раскодируешь. Все равно будет звонить!

I’ll tell chief [Kolomoysky] for sure, but why? He [Kolomoysky] also has secure phone with scrambler. No one can eavesdrop or decode anyway. Well, he [Kolomoysky] wil call you anyway.


16.07.2014 08:51

Валерий Гелетей

Да, только у него с шифрацией, а у меня, на который он вечно звонит – нет. Так что напомни ему мою просьбу о безопасном канале. По крайней мере, до конца операции.

Sure, even if his [Kolomoysky] phone is secure he keep calling me on unsecured one. Ergo, remind him about my request to use secure line. At least untill operation is over.


16.07.2014 08:51

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Да, конечно. Я передам сегодня же вечером.

Sure, of course, I’ll pass it tonight, directly.



Transcript III (2 lieutenants)

01.05.2014 10:26

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Юра, заедь ко мне сегодня

Yura, stop by my place…


01.05.2014 10:43

Юрій Береза

Сегодня смогу после 20 или уже завтра утром.

Not today, may be after 8:00PM or tomorrow morning.


01.05.2014 10:50

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Ладно, давай завтра. Позвонишь

O’k, lets make it tomorrow, call me first.


10.05.2014 10:02

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Возьми так называемые пропозиции, о которых мы говорили в прошлый раз, и постарайся сегодня у меня появится

Grab so called propositions we’re talking about last time, and try to make it today.


10.05.2014 10:09

Юрій Береза

Да не вопрос. Наберу тебя через часик!

Not a problem. Will cal you in about an hour or so!


25.05.2014 19:43

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Завтра утром мы с шефом тебя ждем, тебе передали?

Me and the boss[Kolomoysky] expecting you tomorrow. Did you get a message?


25.05.2014 19:45

Юрій Береза

Да. Буду к 10

Of course, will be there at 10:00AM


25.05.2014 19:45

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Ладно, тогда до завтра.

Good, See you then.


07.06.2014 21:07

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Юра, мы же на сегодня договаривались!

Yura, we agreed to meet today! [why didn't you showed up]


07.06.2014 21:10

Юрій Береза

Так получилось, срочные дела были…

Sh!t happens, emergencies…


07.06.2014 21:11

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

И что теперь? Когда сможешь подъехать?


07.06.2014 21:11

Юрій Береза

Скорей всего завтра после обеда. Вы будете на месте?

Most likely tomorrow after lunch. Are [both of] you will be there?


07.06.2014 21:12

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Да, будем. Заходи

Sure, come on in.


16.06.2014 11:13

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Ты так и не прислал мне материалы. Забыл или что?

You haven’t sent me anything. Forgot?


16.06.2014 11:19

Юрій Береза

Нет, надо еще кое-что добавить. Сегодня вечером мне перекинут дополнительные фотографии, и тогда уже все вместе пришлю тебе.

No, had to add something. Tonight I’ll get additional photos, and then everything will be on your desk [tomorrow?]


16.06.2014 11:20

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Ок, давай

O’k, good.


28.06.2014 20:35

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Набери меня, я тебе не дозваниваюсь, ты вне зоны. Что там решилось?

Call me, I can’t reach you, always out of coverage zone. What was the final decision?


И кстати, что с ранеными? Вас разместили?

By the way, what is going on with wounded? everything O’k? [Referring to the wounded Ukrainian soldiers chosen for disassembly for organs to be sold on the black market]


28.06.2014 20:39

Юрій Береза

Раненых разместили, все нормально. Только главврачу пришлось немного мозги прочистить) провели политбеседу, так сказать, применили меры))

The wounded were placed, everything is fine. Only the head physician give us hard time, had to do little “brain washing”, so to speak, “applied measures”))

[Apparently one of the doctors refused to participate in organ removal operations. Please note two smily faces at the end of the sentence]


28.06.2014 20:40

Юрій Береза

Сегодня все не смогу – надо ребят отправить. Завтра утром. Подойдет?

Wouldn’t be able to do everything today – need to send boys out. Tomorrow morning? If its O’k with you.


28.06.2014 20:40

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Да, нормально. А насчет врача не слышал еще!

Sure, acceptable. I haven’t heard about doctor yet!


28.06.2014 20:41

Юрій Береза

Да теперь все ок.

Everything is fine now [Doctor was killed]


28.06.2014 20:41

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Я не сомневаюсь

I never doubted you.


07.07.2014 09:56

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Ты мне будешь нужен сегодня! Надо с материалами до конца определиться. Бери спеца и приезжайте после 18:00.

I will need you tonight! Need to decide about materials [mass media coverage] Take an expert and I’ll see you two after 6:00PM


07.07.2014 10:07

Юрій Береза

Да помню я! будем

I remember! Will be there.


17.07.2014 21:21

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Что с архивом? Пароль не катит. Кратко – что там? Как в итоге?

What happen to archive? Password does not work. In two words – whats in there? What is the result?


17.07.2014 21:22

Юрій Береза

Да обычный пароль! Раскладку и капс проверь.

Regular password, check CAPS or language settings.


17.07.2014 21:22

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

Ладно, фиг с ним. Что? И как?

Screw it. What and How [it went]?


17.07.2014 21:23

Юрій Береза

землей – прямым – воздухом

Ground [SAM] – direct [referring to cannon] – air [air to air missile]


17.07.2014 21:24

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

А воздухом какого хера???

Why air in the fracking world? [Air to air missile]


17.07.2014 21:26

Юрій Береза

Передали, что не смог долго удерживаться там, типа высоко. Сделал один прямым. Не проканало. Тогда пришлось воздухом.

[Pilot] reported that he could not keep plane so high for a long time. Made one straight [cannon salvo]. Didn’t worked. Then had to use air to air [missile].


17.07.2014 21:27

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

А почему сначала харьковских подняли?

Why Kharkov was involved? [Air defense military command center]


17.07.2014 21:30

Юрій Береза

Они сказали, что сначала команда пришла из Киева на харьковский пульт, а когда он начал разворачиваться, тогда уже остальных подключили.

They said that the first orders came from Kiev to Kharkov control [Air defense military command center] , only when they went on defcon others begun to follow.


17.07.2014 21:32

Svyatoslav Oliynyk

ясно, ну расскажешь еще потом подробнее. Ты без задержек?

got it, well later on you’ll provide me all details [in personal conversation] Any delays?


17.07.2014 21:34

Юрій Береза

Да, скоро на месте буду. Только закончил с журналистами.

Absolutely, soon well be there, Just finished with journalists.

( Pictured below - Ten screen shots )

 

[Altair]

Interesting, but without real audio tapes these transcripts are, in my opinion, useless.

 

[Joe]

Interesting, but without real audio tapes these transcripts are, in my opinion, useless.

Yeah, from "beforeitsnews" and no external link? Where did they get them?

 

[Joe]

Thought I'd throw this out for consideration. Looks like a reasonable reconstruction of the cockpit pieces. If it's accurate, it suggests (to me anyway) that the cockpit may have been hit with machine gun fire possibly from the alleged SU-25 that was seen in the area. Notably, the Su-25KM 'scorpion' is an Israel version of the plane that got an extensive make over in 2001 with the cockpit entirely revamped with all the latest gadgets and weapons systems. The theory being that the 'Israelis' were deeply involved in the taking down of MH17, and used an SU-25KM to "take out" the pilots and then a bomb was detonated on the plane.

 

[Altair]

Interesting, but without real audio tapes these transcripts are, in my opinion, useless.

Yeah, from "beforeitsnews" and no external link? Where did they get them?

The transcripts are apparently from hackers group CyberBerkut. Unfortunately I didn't find anything about these transcripts on their page (_http://cyber-berkut.org/en/). I sent them an email asking whether they have original audio tapes/screenshots of these conversations.

 

[Possibility of Being]

The transcripts are apparently from hackers group CyberBerkut. Unfortunately I didn't find anything about these transcripts on their page (_http://cyber-berkut.org/en/). I sent them an email asking whether they have original audio tapes/screenshots of these conversations.

The same here. Checked their Twitter, FB and website, in Russian and in English - nil. Numerous quote it but no one provides any source except referring to each other. There is a first attempt to debunk it, in Russian. From what I understand, two main points are: the same IP everywhere and the same size of all screenshots.

Could have missed something.

_http://www.stopfake.org/analiz-vzlomannoj-kiberberkutom-perepiski-o-krushenii-boinga/

 

[Possibility of Being]

According to some outlets, including Colonel Cassad (so far, reliable), the material has been sent by CyberBerkut to "Voice of Sevastopol".

_http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/1723665.html (Ru)

_http://voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vostok/3590-vzloman-akkaunt-pomoshnika-kolomoyskogo-na-facebook.html (Ru)

The latter has an update:

UPDATE 13:30 - КОМУ-ТО ОЧЕНЬ СИЛЬНО НЕ НРАВИТСЯ ПРАВДА (от администрации Голоса Cевастополя)



ВНИМАНИЕ! Для тех кто ставит содержимое статьи под сомнение будет интересно прочесть следующее:
1. материал был получен нами от Киберберкута напрямую около 12 ночи 10 августа и был сразу же опубликован нами на сайте.
2. Спустя пару часов было более 77 поделившихся нашей статьей в соц.сетях (кнопки сверху и снизу новости)
3. Сегодня мы засекли, что кол-во поделившихся странным образом стало меняться в диапазоне 70-80 и уменьшалось, чего быть не может
4. Мы обнаружили и закрыли данную уязвимость, у себя на сайте, через которую злоумышленники каждые 5 минут искусственно уменьшали кол-во поделившихся этой новостью в соцсетях.


Отдельный привет злоумышленникам:
1. Правду не скроешь.
2. Количество реально поделившихся в соцсетях людей превысило более нескольких тысяч, так что уменьшение нашего счетчика вам мало чем поможет.
3. Дискредитирующие статью комментарии будут жестко удаляться, а все оставляющие их аккаунты будут досконально проверяться, особенно те что созданы вчера-сегодня

Google translation (bad, I know; fixed the most obvious and misleading errors)

UPDATE 13:30 - SOMEONE VERY MUCH DO NOT LIKE THE TRUTH (from the administration Cevastopolya Votes)

WARNING! For those who put the contents of the article cast doubt will be interested to read the following:

1 material has been obtained by us directly from Kiberberkuta about 12 at night on August 10 and was immediately published on our site.
2 After a couple of hours there were more than 77 shares of our articles in social networks (button at the top and bottom of the news)
3 Today, we detected that the number of share strangely began to change in the range of 70-80 and decreased, which can not be
4 We found and closed the vulnerability on our site, through which attackers every 5 minutes artificially reduced the number of shared this news in social networks.

A special hello to attackers:

1 The truth can not be hidden.
2 Number of real people to share in social networks has exceeded more than a few thousand, so that the decrease of our counter you will not do much.
3 discredit the article comments will be strictly removed, and all leaving their accounts will be checked thoroughly, especially those that are created yesterday-today

Still a mystery for me, why would the hackers NOT publish it themselves even if they wanted to pass it to VoS.

 

[Altair]

The transcripts are apparently from hackers group CyberBerkut. Unfortunately I didn't find anything about these transcripts on their page (_http://cyber-berkut.org/en/). I sent them an email asking whether they have original audio tapes/screenshots of these conversations.

The same here. Checked their Twitter, FB and website, in Russian and in English - nil. Numerous quote it but no one provides any source except referring to each other. There is a first attempt to debunk it, in Russian. From what I understand, two main points are: the same IP everywhere and the same size of all screenshots.

Could have missed something.

_http://www.stopfake.org/analiz-vzlomannoj-kiberberkutom-perepiski-o-krushenii-boinga/

Hmm.. it gets interesting. So it was not an phone conversation, but a Facebook chat because Anatoliy Hrytsenko couldn't get Svyatoslav Oliynyk on the phone. There are several screenshots of their Facebook chat at the links you posted. The material was apparently sent by CyberBerkut to voicesevas.ru on 10th of August. A reader asked why it's not published on cyber-berkut.org yet. The admin of voicesevas.ru responded that it should be published one of these days.

The arguments of stopfake.org are dilettante. If the both were at their workplace at that time (the chat started on Tuesday 19.07.2014 at 09:17) they were probably using standard PCs (with standard software installed by admin) and standard monitors. It explains why the screenshots are the same size and why they were using the same web browser. The both were talking in a mix of Ukrainian/Russian which spoken in Kiev region and it sounded pretty authentic to me...
I guess it's better to wait and see before jumping to conclusions. We'll see what will be published on cyber-berkut.org in the coming days.

 

[whitecoast]

I received this while debating with a friend online. It appears to be the official line about what happened to MH17.

_http://www.interpretermag.com/evidence-review-who-shot-down-mh17/

With all of the developments, debates, new evidence and new disinformation, let’s take a look at what we know and don’t know about the theory that a Buk missile system shot down Malaysian Flight MH17.

What We Know – The Separatists Had The Buk

The main theory is that a Buk missile system shot MH17 out of the sky. The separatist at one point admitted that they had a Buk, though that tweet has since been deleted. We have created a map of the areas around where MH17 crashed, and we see that to the north and to the south there are three towns where the Buk system may have shot down MH17. They are as follows:

Torez- Located near Snezhnoye, a geolocated picture placed the Buk in the town. Since then, journalists have spoken to residents who say that the Buk traveled through Torez.

Another video appears to shows the Buk 24 kilometers away from Torez but moving in that direction.

Snezhnoye - A video showing a Buk has been geolocated to the town. Two AP journalists and a Ukrainian journalist reported seeing a Buk in Snezhnoye on July 17th, the day that MH17 was shot down. This is conclusive evidence that at least one Buk traveled in the Torez/Snezhnoye area on the day that the airliner was shot down. Since then, journalists have spoken to residents who say that the Buk traveled through Snezhnoye .

Chernukhino - This one is less conclusive. The Ukrainian government released an intercepted phone call reportedly between separatist military commander and Igor Bezler (Bes, or “Demon”) and Vasily Geranin, who is described as a colonel in the Russian Federation’s GRU (main military intelligence), in which they talk about shooting down an aircraft in this area. In a second conversation two separatists say that the missile that shot the aircraft out of the sky came from this town.

Bezler admits that the audio tapes are real, but claims they were discussing an earlier incident – the shooting down of a Ukrainian airforce jet. But in his denial Bezler accidentally admits that the separatists are shooting down aircraft from this location, and that they are coordinating with the Russian government. This admission lends credibility to other leaked audio tapes including one in which separatists claim to have shot down MH17 accidentally thinking it was a military transport, and one in which the separatists speak with a contact in Russia and confirm the receipt of the Buk (and Russian crews to go with it).

In a leaked audio tape released on July 25th, Bezler is heard talking about a “birdie” that’s “really high.” The tape was reportedly taken just two minutes before MH17 was shot down. The voice is the same as the previous releases, and as stated before Bezler admits that this is his voice.

There is no visual confirmation that the Buk was ever in Chernukhino, and we don’t know exactly where this checkpoint is located, though it’s theorized that there may have been several of these weapons (perhaps 3) stationed in the general area around the crash site which might explain how a missile in Chernukhino could have shot down MH17 at the same time as a Buk (or two) were spotted elsewhere in the area.

The Best Theory Of Where The Buk Traveled Before And After It Fired

The Associated Press has published an important report of what they believe happened on the day of July 17th. The article is based off of the reports from AP journalists who actually saw the Buk in Snezhonye, the reports of eyewitnesses in that town and others in the area, and information pulled from leaked audio tapes and from intelligence reports released by the Ukrainian government. What is impressive is that so many of the details pulled from so many sources line up perfectly.

Here is the chronology of what happened, combining information from multiple sources (all times local, sources in parenthesis):

01:05 – Buk enters Ukraine on flatbed truck. (AP – Ukrainian counterterrorism chief Vitaly Nayda)
09:00 – Buk reaches Donetsk, disembarks flatbed truck. (AP – Ukrainian counterterrorism chief Vitaly Nayda). A picture of the Buk was taken which places it in Donetsk.
Approximately – Buk reaches Karapetyan Street in Snezhnoye. (AP – eyewitnesses)
13:05 – AP journalists see Buk moving through town in convoy with two civilian cars. This fact was reported by AP before MH17 was shot down. (AP)
16:18 – Intercepted audio released by Ukrainian SBU has separatist commander Igor Bezler speaking told by rebel spotter that a “birdie” flying “really high” was moving into range. (The Interpreter)
16:20 – Locals in Snezhnoye report one or two loud blasts. One minute to a minute and a second blast is heard. MH17 falls to the sky after this. (AP)
16:33- Intercepted phone call has separatists realizing that they shot down a civilian airliner not a military transport plane (The Interpreter).
16:40 – An intercepted phone call has Bezler speaking to Vasily Geranin, who is described as a colonel in the Russian Federation’s GRU, indicating that an aircraft has been shot down. (There is a discrepancy with the time stamp since only one aircraft was shot down in this area, and Bezler says it was “30 minutes ago” but it was really only 20 minutes earlier – The Interpreter).
16:50 – The VKontakte community “Strelkov’s Dispatches” posted a report “from the militia” about the downing of “an AN-26″ in the “region of Torez” (The Interpreter).
17:14-17:42 – Separatists see that the wreckage of the what they shot down is indeed a civilian aircraft, not a military one. The “Mayor” admits that they have shot down a “a super big civilian craft” amd a separatist reports “fragments right in the yards” and “civilian stuff, medicine, toilet paper, towels.”
17:18 Pro-Kremlin newspaper Vzglyad reports separatists taking credit for downing “an AN-26″ (actually MH17) with a Buk; admissions of possession of Buks also covered on July 14 (The Interpreter).
02:00-04:00 on July 18th – the Buk launchers reportedly cross the border into Russia (Ukrainian government – see below).
As far as where the missiles went afterwards, one video released by the Ukrainian government claims to show the Buk, missing several missiles, on its way back to Russia (presumably along paths highlighted on our map in black).
On July 18th the Ukrainian security services issued a press release in which a Ukraine SBU (Security Service) officer explains Ukraine’s narrative — that three vehicles carrying Buk missiles came from Russia and returned back to Russia after the incident:

At 2:00, July 18, two movers each with a Buk missile launcher crossed the Russian border in Luhansk region. At 4:00, another three movers: one of them empty, other carrying a launcher with four missiles and the latter allegedly with a control unit, crossed the state border.

[The Ukrainian officer] stressed that Russia attempted to suppress evidence of its involvement in the terrorist act.

The vehicle in question, according to Ukraine, passed through Krasnadon on its way back across the border as is reflected on our map. Claims that this video was taken in Ukrainian occupied territory — in Krasnoarmeysk, have been debunked. Furthermore, The Interpreter contacted the owners of the billboard locations and were provided with a complete list of billboard locations as well as images of many of the sites. After a careful investigation we can definitively conclude that this video was recorded in Lugansk, on a road between the MH17 crash site and the border crossing near Krasnadon. The Buk, which does appear to be missing one or two missiles, is traveling in the opposite direction as previous videos which show armored vehicles which appear to have been supplied by the Russian military to the separatist militia.

Read our investigation here. We have posted even more details here.

One picture has been removed from the initial press release after The Interpreter proved that it was an older photo of a Ukrainian military Buk which was nowhere near the MH17 crash site.

Here is a screenshot from our interactive map which shows the route the vehicle may have traveled from Donetsk, through Torez, and ultimately on to the Russian border after shooting down MH17:

Malaysian Airline Map

Where Was The Buk Launched From?

One issue is that the launch site for the Buk has not been definitively located. However, as mentioned above, all of the areas where the Buk has been spotted are well within range of MH17. And so we have a circle around the crash site where the weapon may have been shot from.

A controversial picture was shared by the Ukrainian government which allegedly shows a smoke trail from the missile. A theory emerged that the area where the picture was taken had been located. Journalists from multiple news agencies then traveled to the area where the missile launch may have been and found unusual tracks in a field where there were metal artifacts and burn marks which may have been caused by the exhaust of a missile. Satellite images released by Google show that the tracks in the field may not have been there before MH17 was shot down.

As of now, this is the most probable theory for the Buk launch site, but more evidence is needed. Read our investigation here.

Where Did The Buk Come From?

One debate, whoever, is where the actual missile or missiles came from, and where they went. There is evidence that the missiles came directly from Russia, though the separatists have at various points claimed that they captured the weapon from Ukrainian stockpiles.

So far the Ukrainian government says that they have 60 Buk systems and all of them are accounted for.

On June 29th the Russian state-controlled media ran a story that the separatists captured a Buk from the Ukrainian military. We’d expect to see this news break in the Russian language, but the only source at the time we could find in Russian was the Russian network TV Zvezda, the news network for the Russian military. A skeptic might say that if the Russian government wanted to plant a story that the separatists had captured this weapon, then they would have done it through TV Zvezda. The only other source, in Russian, concerning this claims appears to have been posted on the Twitter feed for a fan account for the Crimea’s prosecutor. More analysis here.

As noted above, leaked audio shows the separatists admitting that the Buk came from Russia.

While there is no smoking gun yet that the Buk (or Buks, as there is some evidence that there may have been multiple systems given to the separatists) were supplied by Russia, there is a strong circumstantial evidence that the crews to operate such complicated machinery would have to come from a military. As Ukraine is not reporting the defection of any Buk crews, the prime suspect is Russia.

Conclusion: Strong Evidence Russian-Backed Militants Fired a Buk at MH17

For reasons stated above, the evidence is piling up that the Russian-backed militants fired the Buk at MH17. It seems likely that this was an accident since there is no evidence that the militants knew that this was a civilian airliner they were shooting at, initially they took credit for shooting down a military transport plane, and it’s not clear how shooting down a civilian airliner has helped their cause (the opposite is probably true).

But the evidence also suggests that Russia has becoming incredibly reckless in his support of the separatists. Russia has been supplying anti-aircraft weapons (including the Strela-10), has been supplying more tanks and rocket launchers in recent weeks, and has been caught firing GRAD rockets into Ukraine, a trend which has continued or even sped up since the downing of MH17. Circumstantial evidence strongly suggests that Russia supplied the Buk crews to the separatists, and while there is circumstantial evidence that Russia supplied the actual missiles to Russia, there is no evidence yet that the separatists captured intact Buk missile systems from the Ukrainian government.

Russian-backed militants control the crash site and have reportedly tampered with the evidence, so more definitive answers may never come. But while questions remain, the culprits are clear, and those accused of mass murder control the crime scene.

It contains a lot of disinformation about tampering, the extent of Russian involvement, etc., and it still doesn't explain why the flight was redirected over a war zone that's been a no-fly zone since June... and of course no mention of the Ukranian jet that approached the trespassing plane and left it prior to its fall. I just have trouble wrapping my head around all the intricate details laid out there... who reported this?

 

[Palinurus]

Source: _http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2014/09/dutch_researchers_to_publish_i.php

Dutch researchers to publish initial MH17 crash report next week

Thursday 04 September 2014

The first results of the official Dutch investigation into the crash of Malaysia Airways flight MH17 in Ukraine will be published next Tuesday.

The Dutch safety research council is in charge of the international team of investigators looking into the crash, which is though to have been caused by a missile.

The information in the report will be based on the black boxes, satellite images and evidence from Ukrainian air traffic control. The investigation is ongoing.

The aim is to get as complete a picture as possible into what brought down the plane on July 17, killing all 283 people on board. Of them, 198 were Dutch.

© DutchNews.nl

EDITED to add link to alternative source: _http://www.nltimes.nl/2014/09/05/initial-mh17-safety-report-readied/

 

[aragorn]

BBC strikes again. I hope the results of the "investigation" that is supposed to come out tomorrow(?) isn't similar to this. Is this article "preparing the audience"?


_http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29109398

8 September 2014 Last updated at 17:12 GMT
MH17 disaster: Russians 'controlled BUK missile system'
By John Sweeney
BBC Panorama

Russians were operating a BUK missile launcher seen in the area where the Malaysia Airlines passenger jet MH17 were shot down, eyewitnesses have told Panorama.
Distinctive shrapnel damage to the plane points to a fragmentation weapon - such as a BUK - downing the plane. The Kremlin had previously suggested that the missile was from a Ukrainian fighter jet. Pro-Russian rebels have denied any possession of a BUK.

However, photographs and videos cast doubt on the claim by the Kremlin and pro-Russian rebels - that they did not have a BUK missile launcher on their territory.
Three eyewitnesses, all civilians, separately told Panorama that they saw a missile-launcher in rebel-held territory a few hours before the Boeing jet was hit.
One eyewitness saw the missile-launcher roll off a low-loader at Snezhnoye, around ten miles from the crash site, at around 13:30 local time (10:30 GMT).
"We just saw it being offloaded and when the BUK started its engine the exhaust smoke filled the whole town square," he said. 'Pure Russian accents'

The eyewitness told the BBC that the crew struck him as Russian soldiers: "Well-disciplined, unlike the rebels, and not wearing the standard Ukrainian camouflage uniform sported by government and rebel troops alike." "They had pure Russian accents. They say the letter 'g' differently to us," he said.
In eastern Ukraine, most people speak Russian but the BUK crew did not speak Russian with a local accent. His testimony was confirmed by a second eyewitness, who added that an officer in a military jeep escorting the BUK spoke with a Muscovite accent.

If correct, the Kremlin has to explain to the relatives of the 298 passengers and crew who died - including ten Britons - why Russian military personnel were allegedly seen in the area escorting a BUK shortly before MH17 was shot down.
If these eyewitnesses are right, then the BUK crew may have been part of the Kremlin's 'Ghost Army' - reportedly thousands of Russian soldiers who have been secretly infiltrated into Ukraine and have tipped the military balance heavily in the rebels' favor.

etc. (same type of propaganda continues)

I wouldn't be surprised if this c*ap is cited in tomorrows news papers all over the world.

 

[gdpetti]

I wouldn't be surprised if this c*ap is cited in tomorrows news papers all over the world.

IMO, only if they have their prepared story down pat...until then, the stall pattern seems to remain in play... perhaps because they're wondering if the Russian air control was recording the Ukrainian tower traffic or not.... fear factor.

Edit=Quote

 

[Palinurus]

The preliminary report has been published:

_http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/onderzoek/2049/investigation-crash-mh17-17-july-2014
_http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/uploads/phase-docs/701/b3923acad0ceprem-rapport-mh-17-en-interactief.pdf

_http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2014/09/mh17_brought_down_by_high-spee.php
_http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2014/09/we_must_not_jump_to_conclusion.php

_http://www.nltimes.nl/2014/09/09/first-details-dutch-report-mh17-released/
_http://www.nltimes.nl/2014/09/09/first-reactions-initial-mh17-report/
_http://www.nltimes.nl/2014/09/09/dutch-pm-rutte-mh17-need-irrefutable-conclusions/
_http://www.nltimes.nl/2014/09/09/pilots-say-warzone-information-withheld/


EDITED to add SOTT coverage:

http://www.sott.net/article/285395-No-surprise-Dutch-preliminary-report-says-MH17-broke-up-mid-air-due-to-penetration-by-high-energy-objects

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Can our Russian readers help us out here? We're trying to find out some features about the Buk system, specifically about the missile detonation.

T‌his guy (whose analysis was posted on the Saker) says this: "Buk missiles are designed to explode approximately 50 feet from the target and from a position slightly above the target." (_http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ru/2014/08/detailed-expert-analysis-of-mh17-downing.html)

But NYT says this: "Rather than striking an aircraft directly, these types of missiles are designed to intercept the targeted aircraft and explode beneath it, creating a cloud of shrapnel." (_http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/18/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-q-a.html?_r=0)

Can anyone find out which is the case? Or if it's either/or? It sounds like the system is fairly automated: as soon as it 'pings' a certain distance from the target, it detonates, so it might depend on the trajectories whether it detonates slightly above or below the target, but it would be nice to know for sure.

Also, can we find some pictures of what a Buk attack really looks like on a plane?

 

[Siberia]

Can our Russian readers help us out here? We're trying to find out some features about the Buk system, specifically about the missile detonation.

T‌his guy (whose analysis was posted on the Saker) says this: "Buk missiles are designed to explode approximately 50 feet from the target and from a position slightly above the target." (_http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ru/2014/08/detailed-expert-analysis-of-mh17-downing.html)

But NYT says this: "Rather than striking an aircraft directly, these types of missiles are designed to intercept the targeted aircraft and explode beneath it, creating a cloud of shrapnel." (_http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/18/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-q-a.html?_r=0)

Can anyone find out which is the case? Or if it's either/or? It sounds like the system is fairly automated: as soon as it 'pings' a certain distance from the target, it detonates, so it might depend on the trajectories whether it detonates slightly above or below the target, but it would be nice to know for sure.

Also, can we find some pictures of what a Buk attack really looks like on a plane?

I wrote about this detail about a month ago in this thread: it was said back then by the best Russian expert in BUKs, the top Russian General Michail Kroosh. He is familiar with BUKs better than anyone, he has been operating them for many years. And he is the supreme Russian commander of these particular troops.

As for the pictures, I've been searching for them back then, but couldn't find any. I'll try again now.