Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine

Just archiving here the latest criticisms of the Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov as carried on SOTT:

http://www.sott.net/article/299855-Lavrov-MH17-investigation-not-independent-comprehensive-or-truly-international

And I'm just in time to edit in another set of critical considerations from Finnish judge and diplomat Peter Iiskola, who is expert in international air and space law:

http://www.sott.net/article/299864-MH17-investigation-is-an-injustice-to-all-the-relatives-of-the-298-victims
 
Palinurus said:
Just archiving here the latest criticisms of the Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov as carried on SOTT:

http://www.sott.net/article/299855-Lavrov-MH17-investigation-not-independent-comprehensive-or-truly-international

And I'm just in time to edit in another set of critical considerations from Finnish judge and diplomat Peter Iiskola, who is expert in international air and space law:

http://www.sott.net/article/299864-MH17-investigation-is-an-injustice-to-all-the-relatives-of-the-298-victims
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I read these articles on SOTT this morning. I'm wondering what the reaction of the families of the victims is about this farce of an investigation at this point. Especially if some heard what Peter Iiskola had to say.
 
I'm wondering what the reaction of the families of the victims is about this farce of an investigation at this point. Especially if some heard what Peter Iiskola had to say.
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Apart from the obvious disgruntles about the time it all takes and the uncertainties around getting (financial) compensation from Malaysia Airlines, a targeted search revealed precious little about the current state of mind of victims' family members. It seems they avoid publicity as much as possible. There was a spate of articles about the one year commemoration services held around the globe on July 17, in some of which individual next of kin were interviewed (very briefly in most cases) -- but that's about it.

Some relatively recent articles to give an impression:

_http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2015/03/mh17-relatives-view-plane-wreckage/
_http://www.nltimes.nl/2015/03/09/over-500-friends-family-view-mh17-wreckage/
_http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11742865/MH-17-Russian-separatist-leader-sued-for-900-million-by-crash-victims.html
_http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/07/17/19/30/national-memorial-service-held-in-canberra-on-one-year-anniversary-of-mh17
_http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/continued-counselling/1996714.html
 
From: _http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2015/08/mh17-report-nears-completion-foreign-officials-discuss-final-text/

MH17 report nears completion, foreign officials discuss final text

August 10, 2015

Representatives of countries involved in the MH17 disaster a year ago are in the Netherlands for talks on the draft report into the tragedy, broadcaster NOS says on Monday.

Officials from Russia, together with representatives from Malaysia, Ukraine, the US, Britain and Australia are taking part, Malaysian and Ukrainian sources told the broadcaster.

The countries were invited to two days of discussions by the Dutch safety council which is compiling the official report into the shooting down of flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine, killing all 298 people on board.

The draft report was sent to the six countries in June and they were given 60 days to make comments. Now the council will draw up a definitive report, taking those comments into account, the NOS says. This is expected to be published in early October.

Some aspects of the report have already been leaked. Last month, CNN said it will include evidence that the flight was shot down by a BUK rocket fired by pro-Russian separatists in Ukraine. However, other sources say the report will not place any blame.
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Similar here: _http://www.nltimes.nl/2015/08/10/international-experts-gather-in-nl-to-discuss-final-mh17-report/
 
From: _http://time.com/3992345/dutch-mh17-russia-buk-missile-ukraine/

Dutch Investigators Claim Russian Missile Debris at MH17 Crash Site

Associated Press 9:45 AM ET

Parts were found during Dutch recovery missions to the crash site

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) — Dutch prosecutors said Tuesday they have found what they believe could be parts of a Buk missile system at the site in eastern Ukraine where Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was brought down last year.

The announcement represents the first time prosecutors have confirmed possible physical evidence of a missile bringing down the plane and killing all 298 people on board.

The prosecutors, who are leading an international criminal probe into the deadly crash on July 17, 2014, said in a written statement that the parts “are of particular interest to the criminal investigation as they can possibly provide more information about who was involved in the crash of MH17.”

Though they have previously said a missile strike is the most likely explanation for the crash, they have never revealed that they are in possession of possible missile parts.

However, they cautioned that the conclusion cannot yet be drawn “that there is a causal connection between the discovered parts and the crash of flight MH17.”

Prosecutors will now enlist the help of weapons and forensics experts to further investigate the suspected missile parts, said spokesman Wim de Bruin. He declined to give more details of the parts that are under investigation.

The parts were found during Dutch recovery missions to the crash site. Dutch authorities have conducted several missions to the site to recover human remains, victims’ belongings and parts of the downed Boeing 777.

Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was heading from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur when it was brought down over conflict-torn Ukraine. Russian-backed rebels and Ukrainian forces have blamed one another for shooting down the plane. Both sides deny responsibility.

A report by the Dutch Safety Board into the cause of the crash is expected by the end of October, while the separate international criminal investigation is likely to take months more to complete.
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Similar stories:
_http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2015/08/possible-buk-missile-parts-found-in-mh17-wreckage-dutch-prosecutor/
_http://www.nltimes.nl/2015/08/11/prosecutor-buk-missile-parts-found-near-mh17-crash-site/
 
Oh lordy, they must be getting desperate. The article and the video are sprinkled with qualifiers, but it still reinforces the propaganda line. If perhaps there was a bomb involved as some have speculated, it could have been salted with parts that would incriminate Russia?
 
Palinurus said:
From: _http://time.com/3992345/dutch-mh17-russia-buk-missile-ukraine/

Dutch Investigators Claim Russian Missile Debris at MH17 Crash Site
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The Western media is taking off with this nonsense even while the investigators themselves are saying nothing is definitive: http://www.sott.net/article/300025-Despite-Western-media-propaganda-MH17-investigators-tell-RT-no-proof-East-Ukraine-fragments-from-Russian-BUK-missile
 
Yes herondancer, the media war is hotting up and increasingly more people seem to get nervous about this issue.

Here are the latest contributions from the Russian side:

http://www.sott.net/article/300025-Despite-Western-media-propaganda-MH17-investigators-tell-RT-no-proof-East-Ukraine-fragments-from-Russian-BUK-missile

P.S. I just saw that Heimdallr was quicker to react. Doesn't hurt to reference this twice, though.
 
Why even mention that these several parts could ''possibly'' originate from a Buk missile system, if, according to the Public 'Prosecutor' itself: "at this point it can not be concluded that these parts are connected to the MH17 disaster"... Whenever there's an opportunity to blame Russia in some way or another, they take it. I'm probably saying the obvious here, but it's pretty clear to me that it's never been about investigating the crash with utmost care and objectivity, it's all just a blame-game. Unfortunately, when newspapers use headlines like: "Prosecutor: BUK missile parts found near MH17 crash site" and people don't pay attention to the details, that's what'll stick in their minds.
 
In Reply 401 I already mentioned for the first time some possible sources for these fragments of a BUK missile system which now seem to have been brought up again.

It doesn't look to me like there are more and/or other fragments that have come up recently, so this whole media exercise could well be just a rehash in new wrapping. :huh:
 
Oxajil said:
Why even mention that these several parts could ''possibly'' originate from a Buk missile system, if, according to the Public 'Prosecutor' itself: "at this point it can not be concluded that these parts are connected to the MH17 disaster"... Whenever there's an opportunity to blame Russia in some way or another, they take it. I'm probably saying the obvious here, but it's pretty clear to me that it's never been about investigating the crash with utmost care and objectivity, it's all just a blame-game. Unfortunately, when newspapers use headlines like: "Prosecutor: BUK missile parts found near MH17 crash site" and people don't pay attention to the details, that's what'll stick in their minds.
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Yeah, the investigators are likely fanning the flames of Russian hysteria with their wording. Interesting that they then went onto RT to "clarify". Maybe if they hadn't implied it initially they wouldn't have to walk it back. But, these people know that headlines are all that matters and the details get lost. The investigators are just as culpable as the media that took the release and ran with it.
 
I reckon they can find "BUK missile parts" the same way airplane wings can float up on beaches.
 
Oxajil said:
Why even mention that these several parts could ''possibly'' originate from a Buk missile system, if, according to the Public 'Prosecutor' itself: "at this point it can not be concluded that these parts are connected to the MH17 disaster"... Whenever there's an opportunity to blame Russia in some way or another, they take it. I'm probably saying the obvious here, but it's pretty clear to me that it's never been about investigating the crash with utmost care and objectivity, it's all just a blame-game.
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Absolutely, 100%. They're not even trying to pretend anymore.

Oxajil said:
Unfortunately, when newspapers use headlines like: "Prosecutor: BUK missile parts found near MH17 crash site" and people don't pay attention to the details, that's what'll stick in their minds.
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It's worse than that, many newspapers carried the headline "Fragments of Russian missile BUK launcher found at crash site" or some version thereof, always including the word "Russian". They later explain that "historically, the Buk system has been developed and used by Russian forces". So you see, in that headline, they aren't actually saying that they have found evidence that a Buk missile system shot down MH17 and that it was a system given to the rebels by Russia, so if people get that impression it's not the newspaper editors fault! :curse:
 
Yeah, the same **** is touted in the newspapers where I live, too. In the paper I have in front of me, the journalist also quotes the "independent expert" Pavel Felgenhauer saying "We KNOW that the plane was shot down by a BUK". Pavel seems to be a known critic of Putin, and e.g. The Atlantic Council seems to love quoting him in their articles. Independent my ***!

_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Felgenhauer
 
Oxajil said:
... Whenever there's an opportunity to blame Russia in some way or another, they take it. I'm probably saying the obvious here, but it's pretty clear to me that it's never been about investigating the crash with utmost care and objectivity, it's all just a blame-game. Unfortunately, when newspapers use headlines like: "Prosecutor: BUK missile parts found near MH17 crash site" and people don't pay attention to the details, that's what'll stick in their minds.
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Indeed, sure is. And in Canada it is embarrassing repeated ad nauseum. Like the AP byline above:

Associated Press 9:45 AM ET

Parts {BUK} were found during Dutch recovery missions to the crash site
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Which is to say that they conveniently forget to mention the recover mission picked up samples and left the rest. So wow, what an investigation. :rolleyes:
 
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