Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine
- Thread starter Keit
- Start date
US State Department Non-Spokeperson John Kirby doing his Kirby thing, which as usual I find both infuriating and hilarious, this time on the topic of MH17:
angelburst29
The Living Force
Russian ministry calls distorting Bellingcat's probe into Boeing downed above Ukraine
http://tass.ru/en/politics/860960
"Bellingcat's so-called journalist investigation distorts the objective facts," the ministry's press service said.
MOSCOW, March 7. /TASS/. Russia's defense ministry called distorting Bellingcat's "journalist investigation" claiming Russia's involvement into the crash of Malaysia's Boeing above Ukraine.
The Russian defense ministry has never commented and is not interested in commenting various guesses published on the net, the authority said. However, due to many inquiries the ministry receives regarding publications of the so-called journalistic investigation conducted by Bellingcat claiming Russia’s involvement in downing of the Malaysian Boeing, the ministry would like to make a statement as follows.
"Bellingcat's so-called journalist investigation distorts the objective facts," the ministry's press service said. "The presented information is of deliberately anti-Russian aiming and is based on false data. Moreover, it uses unproved calculations, aimed at exclusively informative impact on the public."
"The main purpose of the data fixed by Bellingcat is to try proving the Russian military were present in the estimated area of the launch of missile, which hit Malaysia's plane on July 17, 2014 above Ukraine," the ministry said. "As of today, nobody still has presented realistic proofs the Russian Armed Forces were in Ukraine."
Authors of the report use for their conclusions publications in social networks, various faked posts on the Internet, as well as their own doubtful information, which under no conditions could be considered realistic proofs of Russia’s involvement in the conflict in Ukraine, the Russian military authority said.
Bellingcat’s recent report, like by the way all the previous ones, is also based on pseudo hypotheses, the ministry said. As a proof the Russian military were in Ukraine, they use a picture of alleged military, which was made allegedly in the area of the Buk launch on July 20, 2014, that is already after the crash of Malaysia’s Boeing. This is the exclusive material Bellingcat is using to make the conclusion about presence of the Russian military in the alleged area of the launch.
However, the person on the picture, despite the groundless claims of Bellingcat, has nothing to do with the Russian Armed Forces - he has never been a Russian military. This can be checked easily, as the search on the Internet would require only very little time, the defense ministry said.
Besides, the validity of the pictures Bellingcat has been distributing, was commented quite clearly by authors of the program to analyze pictures, who said Bellingcat’s work is an example of how not to analyze or process images.
The defense ministry continued saying, respected western media also several times disclaimed by their investigations the conclusions offered by Bellingcat, pointing to a lack of proofs or competence.
"What are we talking about here if in their conclusion the pseudo experts stated presently they do not have an opportunity to present objective proofs in their so-called "research"?"
"At the same time, merely weird is the fact the doubtful materials of the kind are considered by the Joint Investigation Team - the union, which officially conducts the investigation claiming to be objective and professional," the Russian ministry said. "Simultaneously, that team rejected without considering the proofs offered by Rosaviatsiya by simply saying all that was ‘uninteresting’."
"’Uninteresting’ it must have been because that data would not fit the pre-decided model of the tragedy," the ministry said. "We are confident, all data - referring to the tragedy with Boeing - without exceptions should undergo thorough studies and analysis.".
http://tass.ru/en/politics/860960
"Bellingcat's so-called journalist investigation distorts the objective facts," the ministry's press service said.
MOSCOW, March 7. /TASS/. Russia's defense ministry called distorting Bellingcat's "journalist investigation" claiming Russia's involvement into the crash of Malaysia's Boeing above Ukraine.
The Russian defense ministry has never commented and is not interested in commenting various guesses published on the net, the authority said. However, due to many inquiries the ministry receives regarding publications of the so-called journalistic investigation conducted by Bellingcat claiming Russia’s involvement in downing of the Malaysian Boeing, the ministry would like to make a statement as follows.
"Bellingcat's so-called journalist investigation distorts the objective facts," the ministry's press service said. "The presented information is of deliberately anti-Russian aiming and is based on false data. Moreover, it uses unproved calculations, aimed at exclusively informative impact on the public."
"The main purpose of the data fixed by Bellingcat is to try proving the Russian military were present in the estimated area of the launch of missile, which hit Malaysia's plane on July 17, 2014 above Ukraine," the ministry said. "As of today, nobody still has presented realistic proofs the Russian Armed Forces were in Ukraine."
Authors of the report use for their conclusions publications in social networks, various faked posts on the Internet, as well as their own doubtful information, which under no conditions could be considered realistic proofs of Russia’s involvement in the conflict in Ukraine, the Russian military authority said.
Bellingcat’s recent report, like by the way all the previous ones, is also based on pseudo hypotheses, the ministry said. As a proof the Russian military were in Ukraine, they use a picture of alleged military, which was made allegedly in the area of the Buk launch on July 20, 2014, that is already after the crash of Malaysia’s Boeing. This is the exclusive material Bellingcat is using to make the conclusion about presence of the Russian military in the alleged area of the launch.
However, the person on the picture, despite the groundless claims of Bellingcat, has nothing to do with the Russian Armed Forces - he has never been a Russian military. This can be checked easily, as the search on the Internet would require only very little time, the defense ministry said.
Besides, the validity of the pictures Bellingcat has been distributing, was commented quite clearly by authors of the program to analyze pictures, who said Bellingcat’s work is an example of how not to analyze or process images.
The defense ministry continued saying, respected western media also several times disclaimed by their investigations the conclusions offered by Bellingcat, pointing to a lack of proofs or competence.
"What are we talking about here if in their conclusion the pseudo experts stated presently they do not have an opportunity to present objective proofs in their so-called "research"?"
"At the same time, merely weird is the fact the doubtful materials of the kind are considered by the Joint Investigation Team - the union, which officially conducts the investigation claiming to be objective and professional," the Russian ministry said. "Simultaneously, that team rejected without considering the proofs offered by Rosaviatsiya by simply saying all that was ‘uninteresting’."
"’Uninteresting’ it must have been because that data would not fit the pre-decided model of the tragedy," the ministry said. "We are confident, all data - referring to the tragedy with Boeing - without exceptions should undergo thorough studies and analysis.".
Palinurus
The Living Force
SOTT now carries an RT-article about the latest gathering of victims' relatives on Monday March 7, 2015:
http://www.sott.net/article/314019-Families-of-MH17-victims-frustrated-by-lack-of-details-from-Dutch-authorities-investigating-crash
Similar coverage here: _http://www.nltimes.nl/2016/03/08/80-investigators-assigned-to-bring-mh17-perpetrators-to-justice/
The difference in tone and emphasis is striking and telling, I think.
http://www.sott.net/article/314019-Families-of-MH17-victims-frustrated-by-lack-of-details-from-Dutch-authorities-investigating-crash
Similar coverage here: _http://www.nltimes.nl/2016/03/08/80-investigators-assigned-to-bring-mh17-perpetrators-to-justice/
The difference in tone and emphasis is striking and telling, I think.
angelburst29
The Living Force
Palinurus said:
The way this investigation is going in perpetual circles, the frustrated families are becoming secondary victims of this tragedy? It makes the mourning process far greater, for there's been no closure and any information is distorted.
So far, the Dutch authorities in this investigation have denied Russia's information in their assessments. I keep getting this mental picture, much like when Putin and the Russian Military called a Media Conference and showed detailed satellite and radar images - involving Turkey's Erdogan's stealing Syrian oil - that when the time is right - Putin might hold another Conference and show evidence of what happened to Flight MH17? In the end, the evidence will show - Russia had nothing to do with the downing of Flight MH17.
Palinurus
The Living Force
We'll have to wait and see how this will play out in the long run of course but I really like your "mental picture" as described, angelburst29. That would be something for sure to look forward to, especially the victims' next of kin would be greatly helped by such a form of disclosure, I think. Thanks for mentioning it.
angelburst29
The Living Force
The Global Research site has published a long article but it doesn't include any new information. At least, they are trying to keep the topic - active.
The Ever-Curiouser MH-17 Case
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-ever-curiouser-mh-17-case/5514946
March 17, 2016 - The curious mystery surrounding the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014, gets more curious and more curious as the U.S. government and Dutch investigators balk at giving straightforward answers to the simplest of questions even when asked by the families of the victims.
Adding to the mystery Dutch investigators have indicated that the Dutch Safety Board did not request radar information from the United States, even though Secretary of State John Kerry indicated just three days after the crash that the U.S. government possessed data that pinpointed the location of the suspected missile launch that allegedly downed the airliner, killing all 298 people onboard.
Although Kerry claimed that the U.S. government knew the location almost immediately, Dutch investigators now say they hope to identify the spot sometime “in the second half of the year,” meaning that something as basic as the missile-launch site might remain unknown to the public more than two years after the tragedy.
The families of the Dutch victims, including the father of a Dutch-American citizen, have been pressing for an explanation about the slow pace of the investigation and the apparent failure to obtain relevant data from the U.S. and other governments.
I spent time with the family members in early February at the Dutch parliament in The Hague as opposition parliamentarians, led by Christian Democrat Pieter Omtzigt, unsuccessfully sought answers from the government about the absence of radar data and other basic facts.
The Ever-Curiouser MH-17 Case
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-ever-curiouser-mh-17-case/5514946
March 17, 2016 - The curious mystery surrounding the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014, gets more curious and more curious as the U.S. government and Dutch investigators balk at giving straightforward answers to the simplest of questions even when asked by the families of the victims.
Adding to the mystery Dutch investigators have indicated that the Dutch Safety Board did not request radar information from the United States, even though Secretary of State John Kerry indicated just three days after the crash that the U.S. government possessed data that pinpointed the location of the suspected missile launch that allegedly downed the airliner, killing all 298 people onboard.
Although Kerry claimed that the U.S. government knew the location almost immediately, Dutch investigators now say they hope to identify the spot sometime “in the second half of the year,” meaning that something as basic as the missile-launch site might remain unknown to the public more than two years after the tragedy.
The families of the Dutch victims, including the father of a Dutch-American citizen, have been pressing for an explanation about the slow pace of the investigation and the apparent failure to obtain relevant data from the U.S. and other governments.
I spent time with the family members in early February at the Dutch parliament in The Hague as opposition parliamentarians, led by Christian Democrat Pieter Omtzigt, unsuccessfully sought answers from the government about the absence of radar data and other basic facts.
Palinurus
The Living Force
A fine summary of the current predicaments. Thanks for sharing, angelburst29.
Its author, Robert Parry, was mentioned before in Reply 513. He seems to have gotten himself bogged down into this particular subject and it looks like he's becoming a regular contributor on it. His summation of the propaganda entanglements of the story/narrative is spot on IMO.
I especially liked the fact that he directly contacted some of the victims' relatives and in person attended parts of the Dutch parliamentary discussion process to get first hand info.
Its author, Robert Parry, was mentioned before in Reply 513. He seems to have gotten himself bogged down into this particular subject and it looks like he's becoming a regular contributor on it. His summation of the propaganda entanglements of the story/narrative is spot on IMO.
I especially liked the fact that he directly contacted some of the victims' relatives and in person attended parts of the Dutch parliamentary discussion process to get first hand info.
Palinurus
The Living Force
SOTT now carries the beginning of an article about BUK-fragments possibly planted to incriminate Russia, which were mentioned previously in Reply 401:
http://www.sott.net/article/314952-MH17-deception-BUK-bow-tie-found-by-Dutch-journalist-likely-planted
The full article about this can be found here: http://www.whathappenedtoflightmh17.com/buk-bow-tie-found-by-dutch-journalist-likely-planted/
http://www.sott.net/article/314952-MH17-deception-BUK-bow-tie-found-by-Dutch-journalist-likely-planted
The full article about this can be found here: http://www.whathappenedtoflightmh17.com/buk-bow-tie-found-by-dutch-journalist-likely-planted/
angelburst29
The Living Force
This short article refers to a Tweet on January 22, by Deputy Omtzigtt, It just adds more mystery and confusion to the whole situation?
“Only Ukraine could bring down MH17”
http://www.voltairenet.org/article190874.html
The deputy of the parliament of the Netherlands Pieter Omtzigt (CDA) reported that during the closed hearings concerning the investigation of Malaysian Boeing MH17 crash in Donbass, there was declared that only Ukraiane could had shot down the plane.
On January 22 this year in the parliament of the Netherlands there have taken place the closed hearings on investigation of the causes of MH17 crash. The Dutch deputies were addressed by the head of the special commission which is engaged in supervision of intelligence agencies and Defense Ministries, so-called CTIVD (the supervisor of secret services) Harm Brouwer.
This Dutch official told the deputies that, according to the investigation of the causes of MH17 crash, the passenger plane had been shot down from ”BUK” surface-to-air missile system. At the same time, according to investigation, as of July 17 when the plane was shot down, only the Ukrainian party had an efficient "BUK" system in Donbass.
The deputy Omtzigtt, being at the closed hearings in the parliament, published this information on the twitter account on the same day, on January 22. It is remarkable that this information wasn’t widely popularized.
The first who paid attention to this information was the Ukrainian political scientist, the director of the Center of the Euroasian researches Vladimir Kornilov. Besides this really sensational tweet, which for some reason remained unnoticed, Kornilov also gives a surprising illustration from the Dutch newspapers and the websites which publish pages from an official crash report of MH17.
The fact is that most of these pages were simply deleted. What kind of information was on these pages and why investigation was afraid to publish it, remains unclear.
As for the deputy Omtzigt, it is difficult to suspect him of support of Russia. In due time he actively supported release of Yulia Tymoshenko from prison. He demanded in the name of PACE to release Tymoshenko, and also one more arrested politician — Yury Lutsenko who directs now the faction of Poroshenko’s party in the Verkhovna Rada.
Source
Regnum (Russia)
“Only Ukraine could bring down MH17”
http://www.voltairenet.org/article190874.html
The deputy of the parliament of the Netherlands Pieter Omtzigt (CDA) reported that during the closed hearings concerning the investigation of Malaysian Boeing MH17 crash in Donbass, there was declared that only Ukraiane could had shot down the plane.
On January 22 this year in the parliament of the Netherlands there have taken place the closed hearings on investigation of the causes of MH17 crash. The Dutch deputies were addressed by the head of the special commission which is engaged in supervision of intelligence agencies and Defense Ministries, so-called CTIVD (the supervisor of secret services) Harm Brouwer.
This Dutch official told the deputies that, according to the investigation of the causes of MH17 crash, the passenger plane had been shot down from ”BUK” surface-to-air missile system. At the same time, according to investigation, as of July 17 when the plane was shot down, only the Ukrainian party had an efficient "BUK" system in Donbass.
The deputy Omtzigtt, being at the closed hearings in the parliament, published this information on the twitter account on the same day, on January 22. It is remarkable that this information wasn’t widely popularized.
The first who paid attention to this information was the Ukrainian political scientist, the director of the Center of the Euroasian researches Vladimir Kornilov. Besides this really sensational tweet, which for some reason remained unnoticed, Kornilov also gives a surprising illustration from the Dutch newspapers and the websites which publish pages from an official crash report of MH17.
The fact is that most of these pages were simply deleted. What kind of information was on these pages and why investigation was afraid to publish it, remains unclear.
As for the deputy Omtzigt, it is difficult to suspect him of support of Russia. In due time he actively supported release of Yulia Tymoshenko from prison. He demanded in the name of PACE to release Tymoshenko, and also one more arrested politician — Yury Lutsenko who directs now the faction of Poroshenko’s party in the Verkhovna Rada.
Source
Regnum (Russia)
Palinurus
The Living Force
Not really, IMO.
You already mentioned this same tweet coming from another source in Reply 525. Voltaire.net is just slow to react on it, I think.
angelburst29
The Living Force
Palinurus said:
Your right, Palinurus. Voltaire. net tends to be "history oriented" in its publications verses current news media reporting.
In a sense, the article is a "rehash" of what has already been documented here, as you have noted. I find it confusing, that when an article comes into circulation on the topic of Flight MH 17, it corresponds to an event months ago, with no real current update on progress? In a way, the articles serve in keeping "the topic" alive .... but adds nothing to the solution?
On a personal note, I lost a Cousin in a plane crash, in route to the Philadelphia Airport (USA), about seven years ago. It was a closed-casket-funeral based on DNA fragments. She was 29, single and coming home from a business trip. It took over three weeks before the casket was delivered to the Funeral Home - with instructions, that the casket was to remain "sealed". A church service and burial followed. Two years after the crash and with their own Attorney pursuing details of the accident, the only information coming from the investigation - was possible mechanical problems or pilot error. They did receive some type of compensation but never got any real answers.
Just four years earlier, their Son, who was a Marine stationed in Iraq came home in a closed casket. They have buried both of their children and in neither case, have they received proper notification of the circumstances for their deaths. I can't even begin to describe what the family has suffered through.
Palinurus
The Living Force
Thank you for the personal info, angelburst29.
It helps understanding your drive and zeal in pursuing this topic and sheds more light on the nature of the confusion you occasionally mention.
Getting real answers in these type of matters is probably one of the hardest things a parent or sibling or friend can be confronted with and I fully sympathize with all those 'secondary' victims in all cases anytime anywhere. It must be sickening and madding to not definitely know anything for so long and being fobbed off with platitudes and vagueness about who did it and why, or how the culprits will be dealt with, or what measures will be taken to try prevent things repeating elsewhere.
It helps understanding your drive and zeal in pursuing this topic and sheds more light on the nature of the confusion you occasionally mention.
Getting real answers in these type of matters is probably one of the hardest things a parent or sibling or friend can be confronted with and I fully sympathize with all those 'secondary' victims in all cases anytime anywhere. It must be sickening and madding to not definitely know anything for so long and being fobbed off with platitudes and vagueness about who did it and why, or how the culprits will be dealt with, or what measures will be taken to try prevent things repeating elsewhere.
The Mechanic
Jedi Council Member
Thank you all for keeping this thread alive and the info coming. I didn't really know where to post this but a friend of mine reported this to me this morning (translated to English below):
translation:
I agree with him completely and I mean, I'm just speechless and couldn't even watch all of it. That's quite an expensive piece of propaganda too.
translation:
I agree with him completely and I mean, I'm just speechless and couldn't even watch all of it. That's quite an expensive piece of propaganda too.
