Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine

This was just entered into the "Putin" thread - seems there's a coordinated propaganda smear campaign being orchestrated against Putin.

I would imagine, the video The Mechanic posted, along with it's "timing" might be part of this smear propaganda?

Press Secretary of Russian President Dmitry Peskov is warning of impending journalistic smear against Putin.

Kremlin Warns of Impending "Information Spin" Against Putin
http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/03/kremlin-warns-of-impending-information.html

"Information spin" in the form of sensationalism is being preparing against Vladimir Putin, said Dmitry Peskov. According to him, it is about the President personally, his family, and the businessmen Kovalchuk and Rotenberg.
 
A collection of miscellaneous news items relating to the Dutch referendum campaign concerning the Ukraine/EU treaty:

http://www.sott.net/article/315599-Organizers-of-Dutch-Ukraine-referendum-Who-cares-about-Ukraine-our-goal-is-the-Nexit

_http://www.nltimes.nl/2016/03/31/netherlands-pm-against-ukraine-joining-eu/
_http://www.nltimes.nl/2016/04/01/54391/ [Netherlands, four others blocked Ukraine’s path to EU membership]

_http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/03/ukraine-should-not-be-an-eu-member-dutch-prime-minister/
_http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/04/88027-2/ [The Netherlands one of five lands blocking Ukraine EU membership]


Also found some news that --to me at least-- reads as a curiosity:

_http://www.nltimes.nl/2016/03/31/ukraine-top-rabbi-dutch-christians-pressuring-jews-to-flee-europe/

Ukraine top rabbi: Dutch Christians pressuring Jews to flee Europe

Posted on Mar 31, 2016 by Janene Pieters

Ukrainian chief rabbi Yaakov Dov Bleich wants a Dutch Christian group to stop pressuring Jewish people in the Ukraine to move to Israel, he said to newspaper Trouw following a documentary on the group. The documentary “Breng de Joden Thuis” [Escort the Jews Home] aired Tuesday.

The group in question is Christenen voor Israel (CVI), or Christians for Israel in English. They believe that all Jews must leave Europe, because Jesus will return once all Jews are in Israel. Last year some 7 thousand Jews left the Ukraine, many of them through this group according to the newspaper.

The documentary shows a CVI worker Koen Carlier visiting farms in the Ukrainian country side. The Jews are told that the antisemitism in the Ukraine is very bad and will only get worse. At one point he is talking to an old lady. “You have to go to Israel”, he says.

The rabbi disapproves heavily of this scene. “Putting a woman of that age under pressure like that? That is madness.” the rabbi said to Trouw. Rabbi Leich thinks the CVI should adapt its working methods. “If you ant to do something good for the Jews and tell them: ‘Go away from here, because your life is in danger’, then go to help the Jews in Yemen.” He sees no problem with the CVI collecting money to buy plane tickets, as long as they do not pressure anyone. “If you do it in an appropriate way, it’s a great thing. After all, Israel is the best place to live for a Jew.”

Ronny Naftaniel, chairman of the Jewish Humanitarian Fund calls the CVI’s methods “misleading scare tactics”. “CVI pretends people must go immediately. That is nonsense. Ukrainian Jews say that compared to other European countries they suffer the least under antisemitism”, he said to the newspaper.

The CVI itself is very unhappy with the documentary, calling it one-sided. “Our staff speaks very passionately to the people. but there are also beautiful deep conversations.” director Roger van Oordt said to the newspaper. “And we do more: we put up Holocaust monuments, hand out food packages. That you don’t get to see.” He denies that they pressure anyone. “Afterwards we are often told: If only you put more pressure on me.”
 
Why has it taken so long to bring this situation out in the open, if authorities were aware that Doroschenko had collected and withheld personal belongings from the MH17 crash site? Vital evidence, in fact?

The Australian Federal Police has warned an Australian citizen to return items he says he collected from the MH17 crash site near the Ukraine-Russian border.

Key points:

•Demjin Doroschenko, one of the first on the crash scene, formed self-proclaimed MH17 Donbass Recovery Team
•He claimed he had already handed some items over to authorities in Kiev
•AFP says it has issued a warning to Doroschenko

MH17: AFP warns journalist to hand back debris, personal items gathered from crash site
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-04/journalist-warned-to-hand-back-mh17-debris/7295994


April 4, 2016 - First generation Australian-Ukrainian Demjin Doroschenko was in the region working as a freelance journalist when MH17 was shot down.

The 45-year-old said he was one of the first on scene and formed the self-proclaimed MH17 Donbass Recovery Team.

He said he collected pieces of evidence for "safekeeping and out of reach of the forces of the Russian Federation".


"It needs to be rescued or otherwise the Russians will appropriate any other pieces that they can use in their case against the Joint Investigation Team [JIT]," he said.

He claimed he had already handed some items over to authorities in Kiev but still had possession of dozens more.

Doroschenko, who is still in Ukraine, said he recently offered the items to the AFP and the Dutch-led JIT, for a payment.

The AFP said it was aware the personal belongings of Australian passengers had been taken from the site and it has issued a warning to Doroschenko.

"Items recovered from the MH17 crash site should not be used to obtain a profit or benefit," an AFP spokesman said.

"To do so only harms the families of victims who are looking for a resolution that could be provided by investigators having access to all of the crash site evidence.

"The AFP and JIT are aware that Mr Doroschenko may have visited the MH17 crash site and have provided him with a process of how he can provide those items to the JIT.

Any criminal offences applicable to possession of property belonging to victims of MH17 (including Malaysia Airlines) will be the jurisdiction of Ukraine or Malaysia."

Doroschenko said he did not want to follow the return protocol as it involved handing items back to local mayors who he claimed were in collaboration with Russian forces.

One of the items he claims to have is a backpack belonging to Toowoomba victim Jill Guard, but he says he wanted to get it to the family.

A Guard family spokesman urged anyone with personal belongings to hand them back and asked for their privacy to be respected.

"Anyone trying to make a profit is not helpful and I encourage them to return items without any strings attached," the spokesman said.

In 2014 Doroschenko gave a firsthand account to ABC News about the civil unrest which unfolded in Kiev.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-01/australian-journalist-says-the-unprotected-targeted-in-ukraine/5232720
 
Australische journalist weigert MH17-spullen terug te geven
http://www.joop.nl/nieuws/australische-journalist-weigert-mh17-spullen-terug-te-geven

While checking on any other information on Demjin Doroschenko, I came across another freelance reporter that was at the site: freelance photojournalist Filip Warwick.

MH17 crash site: Freelance journalist Filip Warwick reveals grim first views (26 Photos - video)
http://www.smh.com.au/world/mh17-crash-site-freelance-journalist-filip-warwick-reveals-grim-first-views-20140719-zurxu.html

Back dated - July 19, 2014 - Walking around the crash site of the ill-fated MH17, freelance photojournalist Filip Warwick witnessed the lives of nearly 300 victims frozen in time.

"I saw one or two passengers still strapped into their seats," he told Fairfax Media from Donetsk province, the epicentre of the pro-Russian movement and the region in which the Malaysia Airlines flight fell.

"It's a very grim sight out there.

"So many bodies are beyond recognition, and then there are one or two with barely a scratch and then other cases just bones."

While Ukraine has invited international aviation representatives to assist with the investigation of the MH17 crash, actually getting those representatives to the site is a separate challenge, said Warwick.

"They can arrive to Kiev, but it's another matter altogether of having them actually access the site itself," he said.

"In terms of the area itself there are a number of checkpoints. Even to get here from Donetsk itself you have to go through six or seven checkpoints."

Warwick's arrival at the scene came in the first few hours before there was any security presence, and he believes he saw strong evidence that looting was already well underway.

"I noticed that I hadn't come across a single wallet with money, or a mobile phone or a camera. They've all mysteriously gone missing."


Among the shocks for Warwick was the almost complete lack of official presence or signs of investigation, noting: "The place hadn’t yet been roped off."

When he arrived he said villagers, locals and journalists were walking around stepping on wings and over the wreckage.

Speaking with Fairfax Media more than 24 hours after a surface-to-air-missile struck flight MH17, he noted the absence of organised disaster recovery procedures, such as a "grid".

"The grid is to make sure you have nothing left uncovered. You would use a grid to make marks of the location and you would also mark the various pieces of evidence on the ground," he said.

"So a body would be marked in a particular colour, personal items given a particular colour and plane parts a particular colour. This is standard procedure for any crime scene and this is missing as we speak."

Dr Geoff Dell, an air crash investigation expert from Central Queensland University, also emphasised the importance of proper investigation protocols such as the setting up of a grid when he spoke with Fairfax Media.

Warwick said he believed the absence of such protocols suggested that those on the ground lacked "the know-how" in dealing with such circumstances.

He reported that a group of 10 separatist soldiers were situated slightly off from the crash site, but "they weren't interacting with anyone and there wasn't anyone interacting with them.

"The only people you could talk to are the emergency services, who are looking for bodies and they won't comment," he said.

Local miners, firemen, fathers and sons have all been seen in the crash area, where bodies are being marked by sticks with white ribbons.

The bodies are reportedly "starting to decompose in the fields", yet Warwick said there was no indication as to when a recovery operation for the victims would take place.



July 21, 2014 - Malaysia Airlines MH17 passengers’ luggage looted, credit cards stolen (Photos - last one - close up plane part)
http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/malaysia-airlines-mh17-passengers-luggage-looted-credit-cards-stolen/news-story/59c9d76c379bd2ea1acc874acf8385b1

CREDIT and debit cards are among hundreds of items reportedly stolen from the belongings of dead passengers from Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

Pro-Russian insurgents are accused of looting personal possessions, as well as taking, tampering with and destroying evidence.

The Dutch Banking Association said it was taking “preventive measures” to ensure the stolen cards would not be used for personal gain.

It also said it would compensate the families of victims in the event the cards were used.

“International media report that victims’ bank cards have been stolen,” it said in a statement. “Banks are taking preventive measures as necessary.

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said he was saddened to see images of “shameless” rebels handling passenger possessions and walking around the crash site.

The Boeing 777-200ER, which was travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, appeared to have broken up before hitting the ground and the burning wreckage — which included body parts and the belongings of passengers — was scattered over a 25km area.

Freelance photojournalist Filip Warwick said that he had not come across a single wallet with money, mobile phone or camera at the crash site.

“In some areas of this field, near the small town of Grabovo in a remote eastern Ukrainian farming region close to the Russian border, backpacks and other carry-on luggage were grouped together,” he writes in USA Today.

“It was clear that looters had opened and rifled through some of them.”

The reports of stolen property were backed up by self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic Alexander Borodai who said local residents may have used victims’ credit cards, NBC News reported.

Australian journalist Demjin Doroschenko also reported on the chaos at the scene.

The 43-year-old said he had rummaged through some of the passengers’ belongings in a desperate bid to retrieve personal information including passports and boarding passes to give to their families.

But he said many items had been stolen from the luggage and, like Warwick, he failed to find one wallet with any money in it.


Russian-backed separatists are preventing investigators from accessing evidence, but also possessions, from the site.

Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said the site was being treated more like a garden clean-up than a forensic investigation and called for greater cooperation and access to the site.

“The wreckage has been picked over, it’s been trashed, it’s been trampled,” he said.

Plane crashes are subjected to a rigorous independent investigation to determine the cause of the crash, and in some cases airlines do make efforts to reunite luggage and possessions with passengers or their next of kin.

However, given the complex nature of this disaster, it remains unclear if any of this will take place.

In 2009, US Airways salvaged some luggage and possessions belonging to passengers and crew after Flight 1549 crashed into the Hudson River and sank.

The 150 passengers were forced to leave their belongings behind after scrambling onto rescue boats.

US Airways together with Texas-based company Global-BMS spent four months recovering, sorting, cleaning and restoring 36,000 belongings recovered following the disaster, USA Today reported at the time.

Under the Aviation Disaster Family Assistance Act airlines are required to return passenger possessions to their families when a fatal crash occurs.



July 19, 2014 - Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17: Pro-Russian Looters Rifle Through British Victim's Belongings And 'Take Bodies Of The Dead' (Photos)
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/19/malaysia-airlines-flight-_n_5601703.html

Disturbing reports have emerged of pro-Russian separatists removing 38 bodies, stealing from the dead and attempting to destroy evidence at the Malaysia Airlines crash scene.

The bodies of passengers which have been strewn across the crash site of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 for nearly 48 hours are finally being recovered by Ukraine authorities. But Ukraine has accused rebels of already tampering with victims and their luggage - removing 38 bodies from the scene.

Looters have reportedly robbed the bodies of victims of the passenger jet, including Newcastle United fan John Alder.

Freelance journalist Demjen Doroschenko who was at the scene said he discovered Mr Alder's body outside the village of Grabovo within hours of the disaster and saw that his belongings had been disturbed.

He told The Sun: "I saw John Alder's body and took a picture of a medicine box he had with him. You could see they had been through his things.

"He had a pair of Tesco binoculars with him in a case. They had pulled the binoculars out of the case. But when they say the glass had been broken they threw them back because they weren't any good for them."

The Ukraine government said "terrorists, with the help of Russia, are trying to destroy evidence of international crimes", adding it had obtained data which showed bodies had been taken to a morgue in Donetsk.

Anton Gerashchenko, an advisor to the Kiev government, said: "I have received information that terrorist death-hunters were collecting not only cash and jewellery of the crashed Boeing dead passengers but also the credit cards of the victims."

However, reporters at the scene say some bodies are now being carried out on stretchers after a makeshift cordon was set up this morning, following a deal between separatists and Kiev.

Until now, many of the dead passengers had been left uncovered, lying among the plane wreckage in an open field in the rebel-controlled area.

In a sensational attack against Vladimir Putin, a Ukraine official earlier published an image purporting to show a tiny corpse of an infant victim of MH17 lying in a field, accusing the Russian President of murdering the baby.

Senior government advisor Anton Gerashchenko posted the graphic picture on Facebook with a message to Putin saying: "This baby's death is on your conscience", before adding "Damn you for centuries!"

In a series of stark tweets, BBC reporter Fergal Keane, who is at the scene of the crash, said: "At crash site. Body parts strewn in field. Obscenity of war at its most graphic.

"Saddest to see was tiny shape under white sheet. Brown hair emerging. A toddler. By sunflower field."
(Article continues.)


Additional back dated articles:

July 19, 2014 - MH17 tragedy: Chaos at crash scene amid reports of looting (Video - Photos)
http://www.smh.com.au/world/mh17-tragedy-chaos-at-crash-scene-amid-reports-of-looting-20140719-zuqib.html

July 18, 2014 - MH17 crash site 'littered with bodies' (Video)
http://www.smh.com.au/video/video-news/video-world-news/mh17-crash-site-littered-with-bodies-20140718-3c6ru.html
 
February 19, 2016. Lead prosecutor Fred Westerbeke reminded "the MH17 relatives that in cases like this prosecution can take a long time. He cited the example of the Lockerbie bombing, in which it took investigators three years to issue any indictments."

March 2, 2016. Dutch PM Mark Rutte asked "for patience, saying tracking down the perpetrators will take many years."

March 8, 2016. The police and public prosecution department expect "to have identified where the missile was fired from in the second half of the year and to have more details about the exact type of missile involved."

Seems like they're stalling... as was predicted to happen:

MH17 Who Dunnit? Western Media Silent on the Evidence

At present, we are still waiting for the preliminary report on the investigation being carried out by Dutch authorities, but we shouldn't hold our breath. If the Lockerbie crash is an indication of how suspicious commercial airliner crashes are handled, we'll be waiting at least 3 years for anything substantial and another 4 for a trial of those accused, if any. In this case, given the likely culprits, the whole event will most likely be pushed back and hushed up. After all, it has already served its purpose: 298 innocent people were sacrificed in service to Western powers' pathological drive to demonize Vladimir Putin and prevent Western populations from seriously considering his message of peace, good will and a world rid of the pervasive and toxic influence of the Anglo-American Empire.

They just keep lying to MH17 relatives, pretty much about everything involving the investigation so far... They're making things up as they go, wonder what will come out of their current 'investigation', if anything.
 
Thank you both for your new contributions.

Meanwhile: _http://www.nltimes.nl/2016/04/04/ukraine-minister-surprised-by-fuss-around-netherlands-referendum/

Ukraine minister surprised by fuss around Netherlands’ referendum

Posted on Apr 4, 2016 by Janene Pieters

Ukrainian Foreign Affairs Minister Pavlo Klimkin is surprised by the commotion the association agreement between his country and the EU is causing in the Netherlands, he said in an interview with the Volkskrant. [behind paywall and Dutch only]

“I never thought that this would be such a controversial issue”, he said to the newspaper. According to him, the association agreement is a means to help the Ukraine reform and leave its Soviet past behind it. “The European Union is an example for us when it comes to democracy, human rights and the rule of law.”

Klimkin believes that the Netherlands’ population has the wrong idea about the association agreement. “For example that the EU will be swamped by Ukrainians. The agreement does not open the door for that”, he said. The agreement also does not mean membership to the EU for the Ukraine or that more EU money will go to the country, he said.

Prime Minister Mark Rutte addressed these same issues in an interview with NU.nl last week. The Netherlands’ referendum on the association agreement with the Ukraine is scheduled for Wednesday. [April 6]

EDITED to add SOTT link: http://www.sott.net/article/315767-Ukraine-membership-in-EU-blocked-by-5-states
 
A final round-up of miscellaneous news about the Dutch referendum just before voting starts tomorrow:

_http://www.nltimes.nl/2016/04/04/at-least-two-arrest-in-wilders-anti-ukraine-rally-counter-protest/

_http://www.dutchnews.nl/features/2016/04/the-ukraine-referendum-is-cynical-manipulative-and-one-we-should-boycott/
_http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/04/88193-2/ [Ukraine referendum not about Europe, just over half of voters say]

_http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/04/nigel-farage-speaks-to-ukraine-treaty-no-voters/
_http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/04/lets-celebrate-the-outbreak-of-democracy-ukip-leader-tells-dutch/
 
Here are the preliminary reports (exit polls) on the results of the Dutch referendum about the Ukraine-EU treaty:

_http://www.nltimes.nl/2016/04/06/54619/

Exit poll: Dutch voters against Ukraine deal

Posted on Apr 6, 2016 by Zack Newmark

Exit polling in the Netherlands shows that a large proportion of Dutch voters have turned out to say against a trade agreement between the European Union and the Ukraine, but questions remain over the validity of the referendum vote. A law that went into force last year on such ballot measures require a voter turnout of 30 percent to be considered by the government.

Voter turnout was limited during the course of the day, and exit polling agency Ipsos believes that turnout will hit 32 percent, but there is a three percent margin of error, the firm said just before 9 p.m. The exit poll, in conjunction with broadcaster NOS, claims that 64 percent of voters surveyed would reject the Ukraine deal.

Ipsos surveyed between 20 and 30 thousand people outside 40 polling places across the country. The broadcaster is constantly updating a map of the Netherlands to break down how people voted in different municipalities.

Even as the vote is not legally binding, politicians in the Netherlands are taking the matter seriously. “The majority of the people who showed up to vote are clearly against [the agreement],” said D66 leader Alexander Pechtold. “I had hoped that the “yes” and “no” votes would have been closer together,” adding that now the waiting game will determine if enough people cast a vote.

The apathy towards the ballot box should also not be ignored, said ChristenUnie MP Gert-Jan Segers. “Even if it is at 29 percent you have to listen to all those people who have voted against it”, said Segers, adding that those who chose not to speak must also be heard.

Labour MP Marit Maij reaffirmed the coalition partner party’s stance that the voice of the people must not be silenced. “First we are waiting for a definitive count. We have already stated that the treaty can not move forward with a negative result,” Maij told Nu.nl.

_http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/04/88341-2/

Dutch say ‘no’ to treaty with Ukraine and 32% vote: Nos exit poll

April 6, 2016

The Dutch have voted ‘no’ in a referendum on the EU’s treaty with Ukraine, with 32% of the electorate taking part, according to an exit poll by broadcaster Nos.

The referendum turnout has to beat the 30% mark for the results to have any legal weight and the Nos poll has a 3% margin of error. The vote is considered to be a test of Dutch public opinion on the EU.

Of those who did vote 64% voted against the treaty and 36% were for. Opinion polls had consistently forecast a ‘no’ vote. The Nos said their poll has a 5% margin of error in terms of the actual results.

A more definitive prognosis of the result is expected by 22.00, when many rural votes will have been counted. The referendum is purely advisory and more than 30% have to vote for the results to have any weight. Then the government will be forced to take the results into account when deciding whether or not to ratify the treaty.

Big cities

During the day, it was touch and go as to whether the target would be met, in the big cities in particular.

Revelations that the backers of the referendum are uninterested in Ukraine and saw the vote as a way to stimulate anti-EU sentiment among the Dutch had led to growing calls for a boycott.

Ahead of the vote, ministers refused to say what they will do if a majority vote ‘no’. However, a majority of political parties had said the government must accept the results of the referendum if more than 30% of voters have their say.

RTL news commentator Frits Wester said ahead of the vote that if the 30% target is reached, the government will have to refuse to ratify the treaty.

‘Opposition parties who support the treaty have also said the government will have to accept the results,’ he said. ‘Together with the opponents of the treaty, such as the SP and PVV, they have a majority in the upper house of parliament.’

Thierry Baudet of the Forum voor Democratie, which was one of the initiators of the referendum, said the results cannot be ignored. This is ‘the start of a discussion about a different EU,’ he said.
 
[quote author= Palinurus]Dutch say ‘no’ to treaty with Ukraine and 32% vote: Nos exit poll[/quote]

Good news !! Of course now the Elite will find more creative ways to ratify the deal. But it slows them down and will turn public opinion against them even further.

Next up should be a referendum about TTIP or even better. EU Exit !!!


''People should not be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people'' ;)
 
There's also this article up on Sott: http://www.sott.net/article/315972-Netherlands-61-of-voters-refuse-to-ratify-EU-Ukraine-deal-preliminary-results

It's good news!

Poroshenko doesn't seem to be bothered by the results:

In a statement released by the press service Poroshenko specifies that the true aim of the organizers of the referendum in the Netherlands was an attack on the unity of Europe and the spreading of European values. The Ukrainian President stressed that the vote was of a consultative nature, and the last word rests with the government and Parliament of the Netherlands.

“I am sure that strategically this event is not an obstacle on the way of Ukraine to Europe”, – said Poroshenko. He promised that his country will continue to implement the Association Agreement, calling the document a path to modernization of the Ukrainian state and strengthening its independence.

Source

Dutch PM Rutte has said that he would like to take time to discuss the results with the government and the House of Representatives, before anything is decided. I guess it's wait and see now.
 
The final result: _http://www.nltimes.nl/2016/04/07/dutch-people-shoot-down-ukraine-referendum-voter-turnout-tops-30-pct/

Dutch people shoot down Ukraine referendum; Voter turnout tops 30 pct.

Posted on Apr 7, 2016 by Janene Pieters

On Wednesday the Netherlands voted “no” in the referendum on the association agreement between the EU and the Ukraine. According to preliminary results, the turnout was 32.2 percent, more than the minimum 30 percent for the referendum to be considered valid, NU.nl reports.

All votes were counted around midnight. 61.1 percent voted against the referendum, 38.1 percent voted for.

Of the four big cities, only Utrecht reached the 30 percent threshold limit. There the majority of 57.4 percent voted “yes” in the referendum. Amsterdam was also in favor of the association agreement with 52 percent voting for, the voter turnout was 26.8 percent.

The other two large cities were against the association agreement. In Rotterdam 64 percent voted “no”, voter turnout 24.4 percent. In The Hague 58.9 percent were against, voter turnout 28.2 percent.

The municipality of Urk had the largest proportion “no” voters with 83.3 percent. Wageningen had the most “yes” voters with 62.4 percent. The small municipality of Rozendaal in Gelderland had the highest turnout with 49.1 percent of registered voters casting their vote, followed by the Wadden islands Schiermonikoog and Vleiland with a turnout of about 47 percent. Tilburg had the lowest turnout with 22.7 percent.

Even with the vast majority voting “no” and the more than the minimum 30 percent voting, the government can still choose to ignore the results. The official results will be presented on April 12th.

Prime Minister Mark Rutte told broadcaster NOS that the referendum’s “no” result will not simply be ignored. “If the turnout is met, the ratification of this agreement can not continue without more happening.” he said. He added that he wants time to discuss the results in the cabinet and parliament.

Coalition partner Diederik Samsom of the VVD expressed similar sentiments to the broadcaster. “I had hoped for something else, but I congratulate the ‘no’ camp. If the turnout remains, the no-vote must be respected. What now needs to be concretely done is complicated. The Cabinet has to think long about this.”

The association agreement with the Ukraine was set to take effect on January 1st, but the EU needs all 28 Member States to ratify the agreement before it can be implemented. The Netherlands is the only one not to do so yet.

Overview of what the papers say:

_http://www.nltimes.nl/2016/04/07/newspapers-ukraine-referendum-results-an-embarrassment-a-dilemma/
_http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/04/anger-gets-a-voice-what-the-papers-say-about-the-referendum/

First reactions in Brussels:

_http://www.nltimes.nl/2016/04/07/european-commission-dutch-referendum-has-no-effect-on-ukraine-agreement/
_http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/04/business-as-usual-in-brussels-despite-dutch-no-to-ukraine/

EDITED to add: http://www.sott.net/article/315978-Poroshenko-Dutch-Referendum-results-not-a-hindrance-to-Ukraine-joining-EU
 
I was just wondering, taking in consideration the conclusion of the dutch referendum on Ukraine joining EU, which is a firm NO from the dutch citizens, aside the fact that for me this is another example that the whole Maidan crisis and what followed next was a US-EU coup in Ukraine for the purpose to try to destabilize Russia which it failed and now Ukraine is in ruins and is basically a failed state occupied by nazi thugs, aside this fact what this referendum shows to me at least and to many other people i hope is the total hypocrisy of the EU and the fact that its nothing more than a puppet of the Empire of Chaos, but i also was wondering what if this referendum is a sign that some political forces in the EU are trying covertly and very carefully to gear towards Russia(Eurasia) and as a consequence slowly distance themselves from the Empire of Chaos? Recently an Austrian general has said that he was going to meet his Russian counterpart and no one will tell him whom he should visit and whom he should not, then followed the statement from the Austrian president in saying that the sanctions against Russia should be lifted and that he basically respects Russia with whom it has very good relations, then it follows Italy, the PM of Italy numerous times raised the question at the EU meetings of lifting the sanctions against Russia, then covertly and silently many parliamentary delegates are travelling to Russia and are trying to improve the Italian-Russian relations, the french are doing the same thing and other western EU members also. Are we witnessing a change of direction of the wind across EU?
Just my two cents.

edit: clarification.
 
Hi Andre',

I understand what you're saying. :cool2:

This is how I see it: There are always undercurrents going in opposite or divergent directions from the mainstream thrust -- just think of Putin c.s. who are an inspiration to many others of similar of likewise orientation. Every now and then some parts of those alternative visions emerge to the surface for everyone to see who is really watching out for objective truth. You named several of them but there are many more, you just have to search for them. Reality never is monolithic in nature and cannot be when ever evolving balance of conflicting strife is the real state of affairs, and thus the more objective view. FWIW.
 
[quote author= Andre]Are we witnessing a change of direction of the wind across EU?[/quote]

Yes absolutely, slowly but steadily that is. Just consider that after all the blackmailing and threats the US has brought on Europe it is still facing voices and actions of opposition. It tells that the Empire is unable to silent deceit. There threats are becoming less and less effective.

See the following :

We need to talk… Stoltenberg says NATO seeking Russia meeting
https://www.rt.com/news/338725-nato-wants-russia-meeting/

From the article:

While not fundamentally changing his stance on Russia and Ukraine, Stoltenberg somewhat softened the rhetoric, saying that NATO does not see “any immediate threat” in Europe, including on its Eastern European borders. He was responding to a question on whether Russia poses any “real” threat to the alliance.

“NATO is not looking for a confrontation with Russia. We will avoid a new Cold War. We are counting on a dialogue with Russia,” he added.


Grushko also exclusively told RT he believes the recent anti-Russian rhetoric was serving to “breathe new life into NATO,” as the alliance is failing to respond to the modern security environment and “combat threats such as terrorism, migration and many others.”

Instead of this, the US is trying to “further strengthen its hegemony in European affairs and at the same time to drive a wedge between Europe and Russia.”

Compare those statements from Stoltenberg to those made recently by US officials. It is completely the opposite. The US narrative is becoming less relevant.

Pentagon chief seeks reforms, calls Russia ‘No. 1 strategic threat’
https://www.rt.com/usa/338579-carter-pentagon-reform-russia-threat/


Slowly but steadily Europe refuses to sing alone ;) Which should also scare us. The US will not let it's Vassal gain independence that easily.
 

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