Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine

Chaze

Jedi
Good job, Russians! No one wants that slimy guy messing up around ever again. Well, except the UkrNazis who would be more than happy.

Where exactly did Strelkov go wrong? Or was he always in the wrong and a real “schizophrenic incompetent” as critiqued by Vladislav Surkov?

I only became familiar with him after reading “85 Days in Slavyansk”. His personal history is quite decorated—no denying that—but one definitely has to admit… He seemed superfluously idealistic about uniting ‘New Russia’. I’m still left with more questions than I am answers about him currently though.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m guessing it was because of his “high” from taking part in the liberation and annexation of Crimea that influenced him to go behind the Kremlin’s back and prematurely spark the First Donbass War? And he felt betrayed because Russia never intervened while they temporarily occupied Slavyansk in ‘14?

Am I on to something, or have I went way left field here?
 

Possibility of Being

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Where exactly did Strelkov go wrong? Or was he always in the wrong and a real “schizophrenic incompetent” as critiqued by Vladislav Surkov?

I only became familiar with him after reading “85 Days in Slavyansk”. His personal history is quite decorated—no denying that—but one definitely has to admit… He seemed superfluously idealistic about uniting ‘New Russia’. I’m still left with more questions than I am answers about him currently though.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m guessing it was because of his “high” from taking part in the liberation and annexation of Crimea that influenced him to go behind the Kremlin’s back and prematurely spark the First Donbass War? And he felt betrayed because Russia never intervened while they temporarily occupied Slavyansk in ‘14?

Am I on to something, or have I went way left field here?

First of all, and without doubt, he is one of the most quoted Russians by the Ukrainian MSM for his criticism of Russia, Putin and the military operation and for saying again and again that Russia is losing the war. Kinda 5th column, isn't it?

Secondly, supposedly there was a peaceful solution still possible until he proclaimed himself the military chief of "Novorussia" (still fixed part of his narrative even though long dismissed idea by the Donbass people) and entered the conflict with his detachment. His fleeing from Slavyansk was and still is considered a questionable decision (to put it mildly).

Oleg Tsarev has quite a few articles on Girkin in English, and among others there are two quoting Nelya Shtepa (Wiki, check it out!), the former Mayor of Slavyansk, as saying that Girkin was financed by Turchynov, Nalyvaichenko, Pashinsky, Yatsenyuk, Avakov, and Irina Gerashchenko, and claiming that she'd submitted related documents to the SBU. Not sure those documents have ever been published anywhere, so even though believable, take it with a grain of salt. Another telling episode (in Ru, quote transl.):

When the displeased residents of Donbass began to organize themselves in order to confront the new authorities in Kiev, Stepa immediately took their side and stated that they "are not some visitors from Western Ukraine, these are our Donetsk guys.". But Igor Strelkov’s squad, which occupied the city in the first place, took the mayor captive and did not release her for several months.

Tsarev/ stalkerzone several articles on Girkin:
 

Palinurus

The Living Force
Today it has been announced that the court will probably make public its verdict on Thursday November 17, 2022.
Source: MH17 court ruling confirmed for November 17

The District Court of The Hague will rule on the MH17 trial on November 17, the court confirmed on Thursday. Four men are facing 298 counts of murder for their role in downing the Malaysia Airlines passenger flight.
[...]
The court expects the judgment to take half a day. The ruling will likely be announced in the afternoon of November 17. “Developments in the criminal proceedings may lead the provisional date of the judgment to be modified,” the court added. “We will, of course, announce any changes promptly.”
 

Palinurus

The Living Force
Source (Dutch only): https://www.msn.com/nl-nl/nieuws/Binnenland/harbers-zoekt-steun-van-landen-in-mh17-procedure-tegen-rusland/

Harbers seeks countries' support in MH17 proceedings against Russia
ANP - Yesterday at 22:50

DEN HAAG (ANP) - Minister Mark Harbers (Infrastructure) has asked other countries in the Canadian city of Montreal for support in the complaints procedure underway against Russia over the MH17 disaster. At the meeting of the civil aviation organization ICAO, Harbers called attention to the procedure in hopes of bringing Russia back to the negotiating table.

Earlier this year, the Netherlands, along with Australia, filed a complaint with ICAO against Russia after it refused to negotiate further. The Netherlands wants Russia to provide accountability for the downing of the passenger plane and pay compensation.

The ICAO Council may rule that Russia is responsible for the July 2014 air disaster that killed 298 people. The so-called Joint Investigation Team, which investigated the disaster, concluded in 2018 that the plane was shot out of the sky by a Russian BUK missile as it flew over eastern Ukraine.

Harbers said in doing so, Russia violated the Chicago Convention, which requires member states to ensure the safety of civil aviation. "We also believe that the ICAO Council has the authority to take up this matter and send the Russian Federation back to the negotiating table," Harbers said.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
 

Palinurus

The Living Force
Source: Ukraine offers $100,000 reward for MH17 suspect's capture; Victims' relatives pleased

girkin.jpg

Igor Girkin - Credit: Photo: Politie

Monday, 17 October 2022 - 08:33

Ukraine offers $100,000 reward for MH17 suspect's capture; Victims' relatives pleased


Ukraine is offering a reward of 100,000 dollars for tips leading to the transfer of Russian Igor Girkin to Ukraine, Ukraine’s Defense Ministry reported on Telegram. Girkin is also wanted by the Netherlands for his alleged involvement in the downing of flight MH17.

Ukraine considers Girkin “one of the most famous Russian terrorists” and wants to try him for his “participation in the war against our state.” His “terrorist activities” allegedly include torture, murder, and “violation of state sovereignty.” Girkin played an essential role in Russia’s annexation of Crimea in 2014. According to the Ukrainian media, he is currently at the front in eastern Ukraine. “No war criminal will escape punishment,” the Ukrainian Ministry said.

Girkin is also wanted by the Netherlands, who identified him after a lengthy investigation as one of the first four suspects tried for their involvement in downing flight MH17. All 298 people on board the Malaysia Airlines flight, including 196 Dutch, died in the plane crash on 17 July 2014. The plane was en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur when it was shot down over eastern Ukraine, where there was an armed battle.

The Public Prosecution Service (OM) demanded life in prison against Girkin and his fellow suspects in the MH17 case. The court in The Hague will rule on November 17.

It would be a good thing if Girkin were “grabbed by the neck” and extradited to the Netherlands, MH17 relative Piet Ploeg, chairman of Stichting Vliegramp MH17, responded to the reward. According to Ploeg, many relatives are closely following the developments surrounding the Russian man.

“The miracles aren’t over yet,” Ploeg said, referring to Girkin’s possible arrest. He also said that he hopes that the criminal case will not be delayed as a result. Many of the MH17 victims’ loved ones anxiously await the court ruling on November 17.

Reporting by ANP

Dutch coverage:
Oekraïne looft ton uit voor overdracht MH17-verdachte Girkin
Oekraïne looft ton uit voor MH17-hoofdverdachte: 'Goede zaak'
Ton uitgeloofd voor MH17-verdachte Igor Girkin: kan hij worden uitgeleverd?
https://www.msn.com/nl-nl/nieuws/Binnenland/nabestaande-mh17-goede-zaak-als-ze-girkin-in-nekvel-grijpen
 

Palinurus

The Living Force
Source (Dutch only): Bijna uitspraak in MH17-proces, effect van spreekrecht op nabestaanden onderzocht

NOS News - today, 06:45
Nearing verdict in MH17 trial, effect of right to speak on next of kin investigated

Remco Andringa - editor Police and Justice

Many bereaved families who spoke in court during the MH17 trial probably benefited. The right to speak can help them process the loss of their loved ones. For a small group, the right to speak may not have worked out as well and worsened their psychological symptoms.

These are the expected outcomes of an ongoing study into the effect of the right to speak in the MH17 case. The scientific research is being co-conducted by Jos de Keijser, clinical psychologist and associate professor of grief processing at the University of Groningen.

On Thursday, the court will deliver its verdict in the MH17 trial. The prosecution has demanded life in prison against three Russians and a Ukrainian, allegedly responsible for shooting down the passenger plane in 2014. The disaster killed all 298 occupants, including 196 Dutch nationals.

Harrowing stories

Last year, over one hundred relatives exercised their right to speak. For three weeks the court listened to the often harrowing stories about the consequences of the disaster. People described how their families were torn apart by grief, how they became mentally distressed and how they sometimes lost their jobs or how a relationship broke down.

According to De Keijser, it turns out that the group of people who made use of the right to speak is also the group that struggles with the most complaints such as grief disorder, depression or post-traumatic stress disorder. These survivors are also the most angry about the injustice they have faced.

"For 80 percent of these people, exercising the right to speak worked very well," says De Keijser. "They got recognition for the suffering that was done to them. It also gives a sense of justice that you can still do something for your deceased."

Negative consequences

Yet for a small group, the right to speak can actually have negative consequences. Instead of relief, speaking in court causes more complaints because all the suffering is brought up again.

The expectations of next of kin help determine whether participating in the trial becomes a positive or negative experience. "Some hope to be able to vent their anger in court, but the right to speak does not always provide a solution for that," says De Keijser. "It helps at that moment for a while, but the anger remains."

People who do not engage in the lawsuit turn out to function better than those who get all caught up in it.
Jos de Keijser

Excessive expectations lead to disappointment, the psychologist says. The same is true of the verdict Thursday. "At best, the defendants will be sentenced to life in prison, but it remains to be seen whether anyone will ever end up in prison for this attack. So you shouldn't go into this trial with too high expectations."

Although a large group spoke in court, a majority of the bereaved specifically chose to not use the right to speak. "People who don't get involved in the trial turn out to function better than those who get all caught up in it," De Keijser observed. Therefore, they probably feel less need to speak out.

"Leaflet"

The current right to speak for victims and survivors was introduced in 2016. It should have a healing effect for those involved. Currently, the universities in Groningen, Leiden and Enschede are jointly investigating the effect of the right to speak, not only in the MH17 case but also among survivors of murder and fatal traffic accidents.

The research could lead to a kind of "leaflet" for the right to speak. When is it wise and when is it not wise to use it?

Based on the research so far, De Keijser says, "I would always do it if you feel you are doing something meaningful for your loved one. But if you find it very hard yourself, it's better to let someone else speak for you."

He believes victims and bereaved families should think carefully about what the disadvantages might be. "You have to weigh for yourself whether those disadvantages are worth it or not. The right to speak can be healing, but not for everyone."

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
 

Palinurus

The Living Force
The verdict has been delivered: three times life imprisonment for Igor Girkin, Sergey Dubinskiy, and Leonid Chartchenko respectively; acquittal for Oleg Pulatov. Understandably, there has been a deluge of reports, comments and reactions. Here are links to the main ones in overview.

Levenslange gevangenisstraffen voor doen verongelukken vlucht MH17 en moord op de 298 inzittenden
Judgment MH17
MH17 trial | District Court of The Hague

Court to rule in MH17 case today; Relatives hoping for answers
Court: Abundance of evidence shows Russian-made missile downed MH17; Prosecutors criticized
Three convicted & sentenced to life in prison for downing flight MH17; One acquitted

MH17 trial: court concludes plane was shot down by Russian Buk missile - DutchNews.nl
Three men guilty of murder for shooting down MH17, one is acquitted - DutchNews.nl

Dutch PM, King react to MH17 sentencing, as does Zelenskyy

Dutch coverage:
Acht jaar na de ramp spreekt rechtbank vonnis uit tegen MH17-verdachten
Drie keer levenslang in MH17-strafproces, eenmaal vrijspraak
Gematigd tevreden reacties op vonnissen MH17-zaak: 'Dit is niet het einde'

Opluchting overheerst: MH17-nabestaanden 'wilden de waarheid en hebben die nu'
Rusland 'betreurt dat MH17-proces niet onpartijdig' is verlopen
Waarom MH17-verdachte Poelatov als enige vrijspraak kreeg

Drie MH17-nabestaanden over het vonnis: „Er valt een last van me af”
Kamer: vonnis in zaak-MH17 is duidelijk, uitvoering is lastig

Levenslang maar ook vrijspraak in rechtszaak tegen MH17-verdachten
https://www.msn.com/nl-nl/geldzaken/nieuws/drie-mh17-verdachten-krijgen-levenslang-een-vierde-is-vrijgesproken/ar-AA14e0tZ
https://www.msn.com/nl-nl/nieuws/Binnenland/rechtbank-haalt-hard-uit-naar-om-in-mh17-zaak-zonder-gevolgen/ar-AA14e6DU

https://www.msn.com/nl-nl/nieuws/Binnenland/oekra%C3%AFne-bevestiging-russische-raket-mh17-belangrijk-signaal/ar-AA14e4vT
https://www.msn.com/nl-nl/nieuws/Buitenland/rusland-betreurt-dat-mh17-proces-niet-onpartijdig-was/ar-AA14ewD8

https://www.msn.com/nl-nl/nieuws/Binnenland/justitieminister-ye%C5%9Filg%C3%B6z-vonnis-mh17-is-niet-het-sluitstuk/ar-AA14e3ED
https://www.msn.com/nl-nl/nieuws/Binnenland/koningshuis-verdriet-nabestaanden-mh17-blijft-altijd-voelbaar/ar-AA14e4NS
 

Palinurus

The Living Force
Source (Dutch only): Openbaar Ministerie niet in beroep tegen uitspraak MH17

NOS News - Today, 17:42 - Adapted today, 18:09
Prosecution not appealing MH17 decision

The prosecution has not appealed the verdict in the MH17 criminal case. The prosecution says it is satisfied (in Dutch) with the verdict. The court largely accepted the evidence the prosecution put on the table and the punishment demanded by the prosecutors.

The next of kin have received clarity on the true facts of the downing of the plane. An appeal would leave them even longer in uncertainty about the outcome of the criminal case, the prosecution writes in a statement.

Three times life sentence

On Nov. 17, the Hague District Court sentenced three of the four suspects in the MH17 criminal case to life in prison for their role in the shooting down of the Malaysia Airlines plane over eastern Ukraine in 2014. The fourth suspect was acquitted by the court.

Russians Igor Girkin and Sergei Dubinsky and Ukrainian Leonid Khartchenko received life sentences in absentia and must pay damages totaling more than 16 million euros to the disaster's relatives.

The court did not consider the charges against Russian Oleg Pulatov to be legally and convincingly proven and he therefore went free. The prosecution had demanded life imprisonment against all four defendants.

Verdicts irrevocable

The prosecution and the convicted could appeal within two weeks of the verdict. Since the prosecution waived that, the verdict in Pulatov's case has become irrevocable. The convicts also did not appeal, therefore their sentences are now also irrevocable, according to the prosecution.

The execution of the sentences imposed, including compensation, has been transferred to the Ministry of Justice and Security. Extradition of the convicts will not be requested because Russia does not extradite nationals. However, continued efforts will be made to track them down so that they will serve their sentences.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Other Dutch coverage:
OM: geen hoger beroep in strafzaak MH17
Geen hoger beroep Openbaar Ministerie in strafzaak MH17: ‘Zeer tevreden met duidelijkheid vonnis’
Geen hoger beroep Openbaar Ministerie in strafzaak MH17
 

Palinurus

The Living Force
Source: European human rights court to decide if it will admit MH17 case alleging Russian blame

Saturday, 21 January 2023 - 13:05

European human rights court to decide if it will admit MH17 case alleging Russian blame

The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) will decide next Wednesday whether a case on Russia's role in the downing of Flight MH17 meets the requirements for admissibility, and can be assigned to one of the court's sections for proceedings on the case. It could be the first time an international court rules on responsibility for the plane crash.

The ECHR has other cases involving Russia it will consider hearing in addition to the Dutch complaint about MH17. The court will rule on the admissibility of complaints lodged by Ukraine against Russian actions in the east of the country, and about the abduction of Ukrainian children from occupied territories.

However, Russia is trying to prevent the Strasbourg court from considering the cases. If the ECHR decides to handle the cases, it could be years before it issues a ruling. If the court eventually convicts Russia, it would be of great political significance and Moscow could be obliged to handle damages.

A year ago, the Netherlands and Ukraine had a chance to convince the judges of the Human Rights Court that Russia was guilty. The question of whether the country exercised authority in the area appeared to become crucial to the case, the Dutch delegation said after the hearing. The Netherlands and Ukraine argued that Russia was in control of those parts of Ukraine at the time and therefore can be held responsible.

Russia, however, denied the accusations and blamed the rebels in the region, and pointed the finger at Ukraine.

The downing of flight MH18 in 2014 killed all 298 occupants of the passenger plane en route from Schiphol Airport to Kuala Lumpur. The case before the Human Rights Court is the third way the Netherlands has sought justice for the victims. The court in The Hague has since convicted two Russians and a Ukrainian for their roles in the downing of MH17.

In addition, the Netherlands is also trying to hold Russia accountable for the disaster, which could eventually lead to the International Court of Justice.

Reporting by ANP
 

Voyageur

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
The ECHR has other cases involving Russia it will consider hearing in addition to the Dutch complaint about MH17. The court will rule on the admissibility of complaints lodged by Ukraine against Russian actions in the east of the country, and about the abduction of Ukrainian children from occupied territories.

Seems complicated, wonder why they even would hear (suppose politics, at a new level now and keeping it in the news cycle perhaps). Helmer had a looked at this ECHR business in 2020:


It mentions the ECHR's registered cases in the system (back in 2020):

The court in Strasbourg, France, is a lawyers’ goldmine. At the court registry and on its official website, the ECHR reports that at the start of this year there were 9,360 applications involving the Ukraine; more than 6,500 of them are cases involving Crimea and the war in eastern Ukraine. Mostly these are individual lawsuits. Here is the court’s 13-page summary of Ukrainian cases pending and decisions made to date.

The past case numbers as per MH17 were number 73776/14, 25714/16 and 56328/18.

As the tabulations show, most of the applications never reach a hearing or judgement; they are struck out by the court as inadmissible. The reasons for this are spelled out in the court rules, which can be read here.

One of the biggest hurdles for applications is the rule that the European court will not adjudicate a case until and unless the applicant has tried his claim in his domestic or national court first. The court has told lawyers their cases “must be pleaded in the first instance before the national court, so that a potential application to the ECHR can be prepared from the outset. Moreover, where a case involves violations of fundamental rights, lawyers should seek to have those violations established by the national court”. That can be a long process, the ECHR also warns. “The exhaustion of all available domestic appeal procedures is essential. Failure to appeal a case to all national courts up to and including the State’s court of last resort may result in an application being declared inadmissible by the ECHR.”

In cases involving Kiev or Moscow, lawyers usually argue that the national court systems are politicised, prejudiced, corrupt. The same criticisms have been levelled at the ECHR itself whose judges are political appointees. Their judgements have also been contested as over-reaching their powers by the English courts.

There is more to this and I'm not sure what happened to these past individual cases.

Whatever the case as was seen at the Dutch national level's MH17 kangaroo court, justice was not served. However, served were a great deal of billable hours.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
One would think they were Ukrainian victims but are they not mostly Malaysian victims.? Seems a bit odd since Malaysia was not allowed to take part in the investigations.

Getting back to our more esoteric but reliable source (in my opinion). @Lumiere_du_Code picked up on the real MH17 story here in 2014.

What the PTB/Deep State does to blame Russia will continue until it fails I suppose. At least you can not say our group has not been following almost all the events as they have unfolded.

I would just like to go back and highlight what the Cs provided as the answer to the question of what actually happened to MH17 (which is open for anyone to believe or not). Putin has got significant evidence to expose the lies of the West if he needs to use it or if it is necessary according to the Cs. He is a wise man (as wise as any serpent I think).

Session 23 August 2014:
(Perceval) I have a question. Was the cockpit of MH17 shot at by a jet?

A: Yes.


Q: (Perceval) Was the point of that to kind of take out the pilots so that they couldn't communicate or whatever, and then the bomb in the plane would go off afterwards?

A: Yes.

Q: (Perceval) Fair enough. It figures.

(L) Can ya'll hear the owls out back here?

(Mr. Scott) No, it's too quiet.

(Pierre) [whistles like an owl]

(L) That was Pierre, not an owl!

(Nicolas) We were wondering if Putin was going to play the 9/11 card, if he was going to be forced to do it, or...

A: Eventually. All of the efforts to support Putin will help the revelations to come sooner.

Q: (Perceval) Yay, Putin!


(L) I mean, did ya'll notice the propaganda over the last week or so with this aid convoy to Ukraine? I mean, the incredible... The New York Times, the UN, this Fogh Rasmussen guy, the incredible bald-faced, outrageous LIES that they were publishing in the media! "Russia Invades! Armed Convoy! Ukraine wipes out Russian troops!" All of it was lies, lies, lies, and bullshit. How can Putin DO anything when he's up against that kind of absolutely un.... I can't even find words for it! You never would have expected the US of A, the Western world, supposedly the carrier of the torch of liberty, publishing CRAP like that! It's worse than the worst Soviet era propaganda! And they were publishing it and people were buying it!! What do you think they would do if Putin suddenly gave out the information of who was really behind 9/11?

(Pierre) They would dismiss it.

(L) It would be immediately dismissed, and he would be blamed for being a whacko. He would be a whacko 9/11 truther conspiracy theorist who lost his mind. Remember, there was more than one case of people who were actually taken under psychiatric care for daring to say that 9/11 was an inside job. They've got the situation set up where he can't say a freaking word unless and until THIS situation changes.

(Perceval) What about if he's got evidence?

(L) They would dismiss the evidence. What about the evidence of nanothermite, the videos of the collapsing WTC buildings, etc.

(Perceval) What about something that's more of a smoking gun?

(L) They had the evidence of this aid convoy driving in, delivering their stuff, and then driving away, and they STILL called it a freaking invasion!

(Chu) What kind of evidence couldn't they destroy?

(L) The level of propaganda and the level of stupidity of the majority of people is still way too high. Everybody has to see the man behind the curtain.

(Andromeda) They have to at least suspect him.

(Perceval) Okay, so, if Putin eventually will reveal something, what evidence does he have?

(Approaching Infinity) The last time we had a session with NC, I thought I asked if he had 9/11 information, and they said yes.

(Perceval) Yeah, but we didn't ask what. Does he have like high definition video of a Global Hawk flying into the Pentagon that nobody can refute?

A: Almost.


Q: (Pierre) But the Global Hawk would frame the US and not Israel.

(Perceval) Doesn't matter.
I think all the lawyers will try to take whatever money they can get but there will be a limit reached.
 

Palinurus

The Living Force
Source: European human rights court will examine Russia's role in MH17 downing

Wednesday, 25 January 2023 - 15:56

European human rights court will examine Russia's role in MH17 downing


One year after a hearing on the merits of Dutch and Ukrainian complaints against the Russian Federation, the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR) has decided it will consider Russia's culpability for the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17. Additionally, the court will also handle individual complaints filed by the relatives of the airline crash's victims. The Boeing 777 was transporting 298 passengers and crew when a Russian-made Buk missile ripped the aircraft into three pieces as it flew above eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014.

The Dutch government accused Russia of violating three articles of the European Convention of Human Rights, specifically Article 2, which protects the right to life, Article 3, which prohibits torture and inhumane treatment, and Article 13, which guarantees a right to an effective remedy when violations take place. This was "in respect of the downing of flight MH17," and Russia's conduct "in the aftermath of the incident, and in relation to the investigative steps taken by the Dutch authorities and the Joint Investigative Team," the court said in the introduction of its verdict.

"The Court concluded that there was sufficiently substantiated prima facie evidence, notably in the material gathered by the JIT, to support the allegations of the Dutch Government under Articles 2, 3 and 13 and the complaints were declared admissible," the court said in a statement. The decision to take on the case is final. The court's Grand Chamber will rule on the merits of the case at a later date.

It will be the first time that the ECtHR rules on the extent in which a country may be held responsible for its role in a plane crash. The court in Strasbourg can order Russia to pay compensation for damages caused by the crash. Representatives of the Netherlands and Ukraine were present in the court, but table provided for the respondent nation, Russia, was left empty despite all countries having been informed of the date in which the ruling was to be read.

The flight departed Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport that morning and was flying towards Kuala Lumpur when it was shot out of the sky. A criminal case heard by the district court of The Hague found three people guilty. Igor Girkin, Sergey Dubinskiy, and Leonid Chartchenko were convicted in absentia late last year, and sentenced to life imprisonment. Oleg Pulatov, who was the only one of the first four suspects to be represented by a defense attorney, was acquitted.

Six years after the crash, the Netherlands filed an application to have the case heard at the European Court of Human Rights. The court heard arguments on the case's admissibility on January 26, 2022, with the Netherlands arguing that Russia was responsible for the crash as it was effectively in command of military personnel fighting in eastern Ukraine at the time. The Netherlands said that the evidence from the criminal trial sufficiently showed that Russia was not only involved, but in charge.

Russia countered that there is no such thing as control in a war zone like eastern Ukraine. It said that the Ukrainian separatist rebels were in control. Russia also argued that Western countries have shown bias because of their support for the Ukrainian government.

A majority of ECtHR justices that presided over the application said that the MH17 case should be heard by the court as Russia was indeed in control of the territory at the time of the crash. The court unanimously dismissed Russia's claim that the allegations are illegitimate, and that the court does not have jurisdiction. It also said that the case could still be admitted despite being beyond a six-month time limit due to the need to first determine what happened and investigate the cause of the crash before filing the case.

Similar: European rights court moves forward with MH17 case - DutchNews.nl

Dutch coverage:
Mensenrechtenhof buigt zich over rol Rusland in MH17-ramp
Mensenrechtenhof in Straatsburg buigt zich over rol Rusland bij MH17-ramp
Mensenrechtenhof buigt zich over rol Rusland in MH17-ramp
Hoekstra: besluit mensenrechtenhof duidelijk signaal aan Rusland
GeenStijl: EHRvM: 'Rusland betrokken bij neerhalen MH17'
 

XPan

The Living Force
Malaysia MH17 - A witness report
26 Jan 2023

Just yesterday, NuoFlix/NuoViso in Germany, via German reporter Thomas Röper who lives in St Petersburg, Russia, released a video in 🇷🇺 Russian language with german subtitles), in which Thomas Röper interviews the witness Ruslan N. Kvasov about the downing of Malaysia Airlines MH17. If my memory isn't fooling me (which happens at times) i think he did interview him (or somebody) already several years ago.

I also remember Billy Six' video somewhere around 2015?, who traveled to Ukraine and lived there for a half year while interviewing hundreds of people living in the area, as well visited the crash site, which was filled with remains from the airplane (which was utterly strange given that an Airplane Crash Investigation usually never leaves anything behind on the ground, in order to analyze the reasons behind a crash down to the tiniest millimeter). But the crash site was littered with thousands bits and pieces from the airplane...


YouTube

Odysee

Soundcloud

One-hour interview with a witness to the MH17 shoot-down

Last week, I conducted an exclusive interview with a witness to the shooting down of MH17 who was sent by Ukraine as a witness to the court case in the Netherlands.

A fortnight ago I got a call asking me if I knew anyone from the West who would like to interview a man who fought on the side of the Donbass rebels in 2014, witnessed the shooting down of MH17, was later taken into Ukrainian captivity and testified at the Dutch trial about the shooting down of the Boeing. The man wanted to talk to a journalist from the West to make his story known there, I was told. Since I hardly know anyone who has studied the subject as intensively as I have (this article on the subject alone takes about an hour to read) and who also lives in Russia and knows Russian, I suggested doing the interview.

That's how it came about that I went travelling again last week to do the interview. That the man was who he said he was was confirmed to me by presenting documents, including his passport with his entry and exit stamps from the trip to testify before the Dutch court.

The interview lasted almost an hour. I will say it in advance: the interview does not contain any sensational revelations about the shooting down of the Boeing, but is interesting mainly because of the statements about the trial in the Netherlands, and how the testimony of my interview partner before the Dutch court came about.

According to his statements, the investigators who previously interrogated him in Ukrainian custody were not civilians at all from the official investigation teams or the Dutch prosecution, but employees of Dutch, British and other Western intelligence services, who in turn had considerable mistrust of the Ukrainian intelligence service in whose custody my interviewee was at the time.

His statements, some of which, by the way, are completely inconsistent with what Russia is saying on the subject, provide a very interesting insight into the work of the court and raise further questions about how the court was able to reach the verdict it eventually did. The interview contains details that support the suspicion that the judgement was politically and not factually based.

That my interviewee was not forced into the interview with me became particularly clear at the end of the interview, because I asked him at the end if there was anything else I had forgotten to ask, or if there was anything he would like to add that we had not addressed. In his answer, he formulates very clear criticism of Russian policy, especially in 2014 and 2015.

The interview will be published on Thursday evening.
The German Article, by Thomas Röper on his site "Anti-Spiegel



Billy Six Story about Malaysia Airlines MH17 Crash
year of 2016 • In 🇩🇪 German language

with new links to Odysee instead of Youtube (which are erased since I first referred to that video years ago). There are in fact two videos now.

1 hour 15 minutes, mostly in German language
After a Boeing with 298 passengers on board was brought down violently on 17 July 2014, there is worldwide disagreement about who is responsible for the shootdown. The research network "correct!v" sent Marcus Bensmann to the war zone to find the perpetrators. In his web reportage, he presented his research results with anonymised eyewitnesses in a comic strip. His conclusion: a BUK missile fired by the Russian military from separatist territory took the Boeing out of the sky.

The investigative journalist Billy Six did his own research on the ground in Ukraine and interviewed over 120 eyewitnesses and military personnel. He comes to a different conclusion than the research network "correct!v". Billy Six considers the Grimme online award for Marcus Bensmann to be completely unjustified, because he himself spoke to the sources from the web reportage by correct!v and found that many statements were distorted, distorted their meaning and turned into the opposite.

But Billy Six also strongly criticises the final forensic report of the Dutch Safety Bord. He studied the 3.2-kilogram final report down to the last detail and found a lot of inconsistencies. From the beginning, the investigation was not open-ended.


Part 2

11 Minutes, mainly in German
"Propaganda Show instead of Facts"
 
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