Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine

[Palinurus]

From: http://www.nltimes.nl/2016/06/10/report-russia-behind-cyberattacks-mh17-investigation-team/

Report: Russia behind cyberattacks on MH17 investigation team

Posted on Jun 10, 2016 by Janene Pieters

Russian secret services were behind cyber attacks on the Dutch Safety Board‘s computers last year, according to the German intelligence service Bundesverfassungsschutz (BfV) in a report on Russia’s digital espionage activities. According to the service, the Russians were trying to get hold of information about MH17, the Telegraaf reports.

The BfV calls the cyber attacks on the Safety Board a typical example of short and event-focused espionage by Russia’s domestic secret service FSB and foreign military intelligence service GRU. The German service does not state whether these hackers succeeded in getting their hands on Safety Board secrets. “We make nu further announcement”, spokesperson Angela Pley said.

The Dutch Safety Board would not comment on Moscow’s alleged involvement in the attacks, according to the newspaper. The cyber attacks were initially attributed to a hacker group believed to have a Russian background. At the time the Board said there was no evidence that the break in attempts were successful. But the board did put additional safeguards on its systems and started storing data in a scattered way.

The Safety Board’s final report on the MH17 disaster in eastern Ukraine was published in October last year. The first of the cyber attacks was discovered in September – a login page popped up which looked like the Safety Board’s login, with which the attackers tried to get access to login details. The later attack targeted a Safety Board Server where users communicate confidentially with each other.

 

[Voyageur]

I wonder who was behind the authorization for the raid? The Malaysian Government or the Netherlands group investigating the crash?

Sorry to almost have missed your questions, angelburst29.

The Dutch Public Prosecutor and the Ministry of Justice were the instigators of an international request for legal aid which triggered these actions, according to the Telegraaf daily (in Dutch, partly behind paywall).

At the end of the article, this comment was posted which makes a lot of plain sense?

Monte George Jr - The firing of a Buk missile leaves a thick, highly visible trail of combustion products, observable for many miles in every direction. This trail would have been observable by hundreds, perhaps thousands of people in the region where the plane went down. No missile trail was witnessed by anyone that day. No missile trail, no missile. The plane was NOT downed by a buk missile. Why do you insist on repeating this lie??

Again, this aspect was discussed early in this thread with similar outcome -- including the debunking of some photograph showing some sort of remnant smoke trail somewhere. ;)

Interesting case, good find.

A little more from 2014 on Josef Resch can be found here from his own public address of the incident: http://wifka.de/who-shot-down-mh17-30-million-dollars-reward-for-information.html

Who shot down MH17? 30 million dollars reward for information
17. September, 2014 No comments

The fraud investigation company Wifka has been charged with investigating the shoot down of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. Their client is providing 30 million dollars as a reward for information and evidence. On July 17 the Malaysian Airlines boeing crashed over Eastern Ukraine on their way from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. All 298 passengers and crew were killed.

After the terrible assassination or "accident" all political parties, at home and abroad, said they owed it to the victims, their families and the public to clarify the circumstances of the crash and present evidence for what happened. None of this has yet been done.

Wifka wants to know:
– Who shot down MH17 on July 17?
– Who gave the order?
– Who covers up the shoot down? (Also, if it was by accident and not out of political, economic or military motivation)
– Who can provide details on the circumstances that led to the shoot down?
– Who was directly involved with the shoot down?
– What happened to the people that were involved with the shoot down? What happened to the weapon used?
– Who can name the people that cleared the shoot down?

Whoever provides evidence that identifies those behind the shoot down, will be given the reward of 30 million dollars. The money is securely deposited in Zurich, Switzerland {wonder if that "deposit box" they opened of Mr. Josef Resch contained said deposit}. It will be paid there or in a different neutral place of the whistle-blower’s choice.

Wifkas client offers to give the whistle-blower a new identity {that has got to be some big client who can do this, sounds like perhaps it is the Russian government, don't know}

Wifka works absolutely confidential. The agency advises whistle-blowers to take great care; e.g. to contact them through a lawyer. Details should not lightly be given away in emails or on the phone. A secure way of communication will be established for every individual case.

Please contact Josef Resch (Wifka Bad Schwartau) at +49-171-8361868, via email: mh17@wifka.de or through lawyer Volker Echelmeyer at +49-45131181

 

[Palinurus]

Thanks, voyageur.

The info on Josef Resch is almost identical to what I posted in Reply #323 and I already gave a link to that post in my Reply #625 on the previous page, but a doublet isn't much of a problem I think. ;D

 

[Voyageur]

Thanks, voyageur.

The info on Josef Resch is almost identical to what I posted in Reply #323 and I already gave a link to that post in my Reply #625 on the previous page, but a doublet isn't much of a problem I think. ;D

A heck, you are totally correct; don't no why I missed it . Sorry for the duplication. There were lots of German language titles in searching too, yet did not check them out.

 

[Palinurus]

From: http://www.nltimes.nl/2016/06/13/dutch-pm-ukraine-referendum-results-disastrous/

Dutch PM: Ukraine referendum results “disastrous”

Posted on Jun 13, 2016 by Janene Pieters

The results of the Dutch referendum on the association agreement between the Ukraine and the European referendum are “disastrous”, Prime Minister Mark Rutte said in the Ridderzaal to a room full of parliamentarians from the EU member states on Monday, ANP reports.

Rutte added that he is “totally, totally, totally against referendums on multilateral agreements”, especially if it regards agreements between several countries. According to the Dutch Prime Minister, it “makes no sense” for a country to try and impose its will on the entire EU in this way. And the Netherlands owes this referendum to the “social democrats” in his “beloved coalition partner” PvdA.

The decision on whether or not the Netherlands will ratify its signature on the treaty has not been made yet, Rutte said. The Dutch government plans to discuss the results of the referendum with the EU leaders later this month.

The Dutch Prime Minister also spoke about the referendum in Britain later this month on whether or not the country will remain part of the EU. He expressed a fervent hope that the Brits will vote against a Brexit, because leaving the EU will increase instability in the world and will be very bad for the economy.

“It is really important that the Brits decide to stay on June 23rd”, Rutte said, according to BNR. “In the interest of Great Britain, Europe and the Netherlands. In the first place it is geopolitically crucial. Great Britain is a permanent member of the Security Council. We see great instability in the world, if one of the largest economies in the world should leave Europe, it would lead to popping champagne corks in many capitals outside Europe. I do not want that.”

Secondly, a Brexit would be bad for the economy. “England is a free market economy and facing out, like the Netherlands. We are both maritime nations, accustomed to trade and work with open borders. It is important that a country with such a setting stays.”

Similar coverage here: http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/06/rutte-says-ukraine-referendum-result-was-disastrous/

 

[Palinurus]

From official press release: http://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/prezident-zaklikav-senatoriv-parlamentu-niderlandiv-spriyati-37381 (emphasis mine)

President urged senators of the Dutch Parliament to facilitate completion of ratification of the Ukraine-EU Association Agreement

16 June 2016 - 18:24

President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko had a meeting with President of the Dutch Senate Ankie Broekers-Knol who is on the first official visit to Ukraine in the history of bilateral relations.

The Head of State urged the Dutch parliamentarians to make efficient decisions in order to complete the ratification of the Association Agreement between Ukraine and the EU by the Netherlands. He expressed confidence that the results of the April referendum in the Netherlands would not be an insurmountable circumstance along the way.

The President is also hopeful that the EU will approve the decision to provide the visa-free regime for Ukrainian citizens shortly.

“Ukraine has fulfilled all the necessary criteria,” Petro Poroshenko said emphasizing that “the European side confirms this”.

The Head of State informed on the steps made by Ukraine in the struggle against corruption, reformation of the prosecution and implementation of the judicial reform.

The parties discussed the situation in Donbas. Petro Poroshenko counts on further solidarity and unity of the EU in the issue of support for Ukraine’s sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity, as well as in the continuation of sanctions of the EU against Russia.

The President emphasized the necessity of increasing international pressure on the aggressor in order to speed up the liberation of Ukrainian hostages in the occupied territories and political prisoners in Russia.

The parties paid attention to the investigation of the crash of the MH-17 flight shot down by Russian militants in July 2014.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Can some of our Russian speakers check this out?

http://www.whathappenedtoflightmh17.com/alleged-250000-recording-online-of-radio-conversation-with-military-pilot-who-saw-explosion-of-mh17/

Around June 2015 a mysterious auction appeared at the auction website Joker.buzz. One of the items on sale was a supposed tapped radio conversation between an Ukraine airforce ground controller and a SU-27 fighter pilot. The SU-27 flew near MH17 and the pilot saw the aircraft explode.

The tape was boughtly by Russian newsstation Life News for $250,000. Untill recently only a part of the audio transcript was published. Since March 2016 the complete conversation can be heard on a Youtube video.

Most likely the audio is fabricated as this recording was part of multiple item of “evidence” offered for sale on Joker.buzz. One of them a tapped mobile phone conversation with a CIA-agent claiming he planted a bomb on board the aircraft. The fabrication is highly likely for domestic consumption in Russia. A large majority of Russian public believes MH17 was downed by Ukraine.

https://youtu.be/YmxOekumjHU

 

[Keit]

Can some of our Russian speakers check this out?

Here's what I was able to understand. The air traffic controller (?) was giving instructions, course corrections, and then the pilot was asking for clarifications. The following question was repeated numerous times: "730, do you observe the target?" At some point the pilot replied that yes, he saw the target on his left side. And then he was given the instruction to follow the target, but not to approach too closely. Sometimes the pilot was saying that he continues to follow the target. The controller said to keep following until the order will be given.

And then, after a period of silence the pilot starts to shout that he sees a big explosion/flash. The controller asks if it was a missile, and the pilot says that no, it looked like something on board. The controller asked the pilot to confirm several times that the plane exploded by itself, and that it wasn't the result of a missile fired from the ground. The pilot confirms. The controller asks the pilot to describe what he sees. The pilot says, that the plane is falling. Then the controller gives the pilot final instructions to leave the area.

 

[Palinurus]

Interesting new development. Thanks for sharing AI, and Keit for the swift translation.

Looks like grist for the mill of the hypothetical bomb aboard explanation.

The comments mostly think it's a fake, although for several different reasons.

Bellingcat commented also negatively on this auction in 2015 here: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2015/07/29/the-strange-story-of-the-ten-thousand-bitcoin-mh17-investigation/

Below the original article stands a link to more background info which also is in Russian language (this link is a genuine one although it looks rather strange):

https://medium.com/@ReggaeMortis1/%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%8F-lifenews-%D1%81-%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BC-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%82%D1%83-mh17-%D0%B3%D0%B4%D0%B5-%D1%82%D0%BE-%D1%8F-%D1%8D%D1%82%D0%BE-%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B5-%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB-3bdb3c01da13#.w68d6pyfn

Keit, maybe you might have a look at that one as well ?

 

[Keit]

Keit, maybe you might have a look at that one as well ?

Well, the author of the article (who has the anti-Russian stance) says that this "terror attack on board" version, released by Life News, wouldn't be worth a look, except for some curious elements. First, that in the recording they talk about Su-27, why according to the author, Kremlin always talked about Su-25. But that isn't the most interesting element in this article.

The author then poses a question, how is it possible that exactly the same recorder (and he does the comparison between the two items) that was offered in the auction on the Joker.buzz (and that the price for the entire lot was 10 thousand bitcoins or almost 3 million dollars) was bought by a Lifenews expert Sergey Sokolov (who is also Berezovsky's ex-bodyguard) for 250 thousand dollars, as he claims, from Ukranian security agency.

And that's about it. And in my opinion, this fact that Sokolov is Berezovsky's ex-bodyguard just makes the recording even more interesting, fake or not, considering Berezovsky's probably dealings with Mossad and all. But maybe it is just a coincidence. ;)

 

[Windmill knight]

Can some of our Russian speakers check this out?

Here's what I was able to understand. The air traffic controller (?) was giving instructions, course corrections, and then the pilot was asking for clarifications. The following question was repeated numerous times: "730, do you observe the target?" At some point the pilot replied that yes, he saw the target on his left side. And then he was given the instruction to follow the target, but not to approach too closely. Sometimes the pilot was saying that he continues to follow the target. The controller said to keep following until the order will be given.

And then, after a period of silence the pilot starts to shout that he sees a big explosion/flash. The controller asks if it was a missile, and the pilot says that no, it looked like something on board. The controller asked the pilot to confirm several times that the plane exploded by itself, and that it wasn't the result of a missile fired from the ground. The pilot confirms. The controller asks the pilot to describe what he sees. The pilot says, that the plane is falling. Then the controller gives the pilot final instructions to leave the area.

So the conversation was in Russian? Or can you understand Ukranian well enough if you know Russian?

 

[Keit]

So the conversation was in Russian? Or can you understand Ukranian well enough if you know Russian?

It was in Russian.

 

[Windmill knight]

So the conversation was in Russian? Or can you understand Ukranian well enough if you know Russian?

It was in Russian.

I see. Shouldn't the Ukranian Air Force speak to each other in Ukranian? To my knowledge, only the people in the east of the country, i.e. those currently being bombed by Kiev, speak Russian as a first language.

 

[Keit]

I see. Shouldn't the Ukranian Air Force speak to each other in Ukranian? To my knowledge, only the people in the east of the country, i.e. those currently being bombed by Kiev, speak Russian as a first language.

Well, I did some checking, and apparently it is normal for Ukrainian military pilots to speak in Russian in their communications. But don't know if it's true in all the cases.

 

[Siberia]

So the conversation was in Russian? Or can you understand Ukranian well enough if you know Russian?

It was in Russian.

I see. Shouldn't the Ukranian Air Force speak to each other in Ukranian? To my knowledge, only the people in the east of the country, i.e. those currently being bombed by Kiev, speak Russian as a first language.

Just a note that we have already discussed this tape to some extent last year in this thread, including the Berezovsky connection, etc.