Man attacked by bear

Gonzo said:
I have to admit, I feel a little put off at some of the laughing at one's expense, if not his vilification. He certainly made some very costly mistakes.

Yes he did...a long list of very stupid mistakes, and then instead of taking responsibility for HIS mistakes, he blames the government for not allowing the mass slaughter of a threatened species.

In my opinion, his initial stupidity and later refusal to acknowledge his own stupidity deserves to be mocked (exposed) for exactly what it is. If you can't control yourself when comming into contact with wildlife, stay out of THEIR home!
Of course that's just me....in any such encounter, I'm probably going to be rooting for the bear.
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I think about guys I know who go out selectively harvesting wood off forests on their property, who have never seen a bear there and never bring a rifle with them.

In Canada you can't just carry guns around without a firearm permit and specific hunting license at specified times of year. You can't carry a rifle if there is no open hunting season. We only have the right to bare arms not bear arms. That's why we're so fond of t-shirts. Wink


You don't need a gun as much as you need a good dog, a can of pepper spray, and common woods-sense. My 70 year old Dad still cuts wood from his property, but he's got a walkie talkie with him. He tells people where he's going to be and he checks in before, during, and when he's on his way back in. If he lived in bear country, he'd never go out by himself without what I've just mentioned, or at least two other people to help watch, or all of the above.

As a gimpy chick with a bad limp, you won't see me out in bear country at all, because I know black bears are ambush predators that hit preferably from behind. They kill more people than grizzlies because people think they're not as dangerous as grizzlies...and they are. I've only seen a black bear once, and I was driving on an expressway in Wisconsin, and the bear was in the median grassy area, eating a dead deer. Hubby hit the gas and got us out of there. ;)
 
Gimpy said:
As a gimpy chick with a bad limp, you won't see me out in bear country at all, because I know black bears are ambush predators that hit preferably from behind. They kill more people than grizzlies because people think they're not as dangerous as grizzlies...and they are.

Exactly! You're aware of your surroundings AND your limitations, which is essential for survival in just about any situation but most especially when alone in the woods. You also know that your limp makes you look like easy prey.

I LOVE spending time walking in places that may not have had a human visitor for years.... but there's one week out of the month when I just can't go for walkies in the woods. If I do, and I get attacked, it's MY fault...not the predator's who can smell me a mile away.


I've only seen a black bear once, and I was driving on an expressway in Wisconsin, and the bear was in the median grassy area, eating a dead deer. Hubby hit the gas and got us out of there. ;)

Over the years I've come face to face with black and brown bears, a cougar, lynx, several wild boars, snakes and assorted other less dangerous residents of the wild. While I carry a Kimber .45 ultra compact just in case, the only weapon I've ever needed was my VOICE.
 
Guardian said:
Exactly! You're aware of your surroundings AND your limitations, which is essential for survival in just about any situation but most especially when alone in the woods. You also know that your limp makes you look like easy prey.

Gimpy, I just noticed I was being an insensitive lout...and I'm SORRY!! I got mad at the thought of declaring open season on bears just because some idiot got mauled...and I didn't even stop to think how tough it must be on you to have a limp, not be able to go hiking in the woods, etc.

Yeah, having a physical issue can make a human look like easy prey, but I could, and should, have thought of a nicer way to put it!!! There are times when the bears have better manners than I do...and this was one of those times. I'm sorry...I really am working on that.
 
Guardian said:
In my opinion, his initial stupidity and later refusal to acknowledge his own stupidity deserves to be mocked (exposed) for exactly what it is.

That sounds like a similar idea as what we occasionally do in order to process emotional encounters with the pathological types that flow through here. Remember fuming pink bunny? :)


Guardian said:
If you can't control yourself when comming into contact with wildlife, stay out of THEIR home!

Interesting thought: maybe the day will come when all 'normals' will be the wildlife (because we've taken back the planet and are untamed by pathocrats) and the pathologicals would be spotted by their idiocy miles away.
 
Bud said:
Interesting thought: maybe the day will come when all 'normals' will be the wildlife (because we've taken back the planet and are untamed by pathocrats) and the pathologicals would be spotted by their idiocy miles away.

Can we pepper spray them if they get to close? ;D
 
Well I'll go ahead and say I agreed with what Gonzo wrote. I too was taken aback by the comments directed towards someone who's main error, as far as I can tell, was to be ignorant. If we all were mocked for our ignorance and mistakes in life, their would be little time for anything else.
 
Heimdallr said:
Well I'll go ahead and say I agreed with what Gonzo wrote. I too was taken aback by the comments directed towards someone who's main error, as far as I can tell, was to be ignorant. If we all were mocked for our ignorance and mistakes in life, their would be little time for anything else.

For me, it wasn't so much that he was ignorant...we all do dumb stuff from time to time, it was the fact that he refused to take responsibility for his own mistakes and wanted the government to reverse a ten year moratorium on hunting the endangered bears.

HE was stupid, so he wants bears in general to be slaughtered. He would rather destroy innocent life than admit his own mistakes, an attitude which I find deserving of scorn...at the very least.

He speaks angrily about the cancellation of the spring bear hunt in Ontario more than 10 years ago.
"I want (Premier Dalton McGuinty) to reconsider the spring bear hunt, so this doesn't happen no more."


Edited to add: This is the type of thing that angers me to the point my blood's viscosity begins to change...and I know this, and I'm REALLY trying to keep a nice polite handle on it. I already screwed up with my post to Gimpy, and I don't want to offend you Heimdallr!

It's difficult for me because I've seen the bodies, and those images never leave my mind. Entire populations of bears, wolves, cougars, coyotes, sharks, etc, have been decimated because a human who did not belong in the wild, went into the wild and did something massively stupid resulting in a negative encounter with a local resident. That human (or surviving family) then calls for the mass murder of the offending species, and very often gets it.

Dozens of innocent animals slaughtered because one human's ego wouldn't allow him to say "Yup, I were dumb...bet I don't do that no more!"

The thoughts/memories really do "make my blood boil" so to speak. :(
 
Another thing to take into consideration is the fact that he was interviewed while still in the hospital, with the attack still a fresh wound. A man is going to say a few stupid things about his attacker after nearly being killed by it, albeit through his own ignorance.

I also couldn't find anything that mentions black bear being an endangered species either in Ontario or Canada. Although, their is a ton of discussion about its re-introduction in Ontario, where a lot of people feel that the moratorium ten years ago was a bad idea, and most of them have compelling arguments for that. There's a lively, and recent, discussion here - http://blogs.canoe.ca/outdoorsguy/uncategorized/cancellation-of-ontario-spring-bear-hunt/. And an interesting PDF on the subject, Impacts of the cancellation of the spring bear hunt in Ontario, Canada.

So he's not the only one that wants the population under better control. I agree that people who mistreat animals in the wild, who react violently to an animal doing what it instinctually knows, are worthy of our scorn and anger. I just think that we should also be a little more compassionate towards the man who nearly was killed eaten alive by a bear, one of the worst ways I could think of to die and not something that anyone deserves to experience, no matter their ignorance.
 
Guardian said:
Edited to add: This is the type of thing that angers me to the point my blood's viscosity begins to change...and I know this, and I'm REALLY trying to keep a nice polite handle on it. I already screwed up with my post to Gimpy, and I don't want to offend you Heimdallr!

It's difficult for me because I've seen the bodies, and those images never leave my mind. Entire populations of bears, wolves, cougars, coyotes, sharks, etc, have been decimated because a human who did not belong in the wild, went into the wild and did something massively stupid resulting in a negative encounter with a local resident. That human (or surviving family) then calls for the mass murder of the offending species, and very often gets it.

Dozens of innocent animals slaughtered because one human's ego wouldn't allow him to say "Yup, I were dumb...bet I don't do that no more!"

The thoughts/memories really do "make my blood boil" so to speak. :(

Guardian, do you participate in the EE meditation program? This is kinda where it shines to me.

The way I see it, our social programming is the guilty party for teaching us how to introduce 'I' into every process, but when the subject turns to our painful memories, we often prefer to conceptualize or narrate them, rather than experience them. You are building a conceptual gap between the reality and the awareness viewing that reality. When you bring 'me' and 'my' into the picture while narrating what you've seen, you are identifying with the painful memories. That simply adds emphasis to them because now you are 'bound' with them. Do the EE. Allow yourself to grieve for your 2d friends. You want to experience that thing fully in its natural and unadulterated form at some point, so that you can let them go. You won't forget. You'll remember more and more objectively, osit. :flowers:
 
After reading through this topic (with quite an array of emotions -- my favorite being the comic relief), just wanted to throw in my 2 cents' worth. My parents live in northern Arkansas and are in their 80s. Several months ago, they called me and had a funny story. They had already retired for the evening (they live totally in the boonies about an hour away from the nearest town and usually go to bed around 9:00) when their front doorbell rang. I guess my dad got up and went towards the door asking "who is it?" He asked a few times then turned on the porch light and lo and behold a black bear had rung the doorbell. Hmmmmm. Anyway, the point to be made here is that because black bears are getting more and more common in that area, people are more afraid and fear definitely produces reactionary behavior in us.

Not too long after that, my brother-in-law shot one at the edge of their yard (my sister and her husband live up the hill from my folks about 1/2 a mile), and I must say I had a little judgment. HOWEVER, my sister has rheumatoid arthritis (can't get around too quickly) and I would say that produces a bit more fear in them. But, what distressed me was the attitude that animals are to be "controlled" by us, especially if they interfere in our comfort or threaten our "things." And I will add that I gave a bit of thought and don't know what my actions would be if I were living in their shoes.

So, that's my 2 cents' worth. :/


Jazper
 
Guardian, I humbly submit, your reverence for nature is plain for all to see. When I thought about it, I kind of think this situation is a microcosm of our reality. Healthy doses of wishful thinking and a lack of knowledge will in the end, get you bitten every time. Or as the C's say,"Knowledge protects and Ignorance endangers". I also think that the dude was wishing he was carrying your .45 pistol.
 
Heimdallr said:
Another thing to take into consideration is the fact that he was interviewed while still in the hospital, with the attack still a fresh wound. A man is going to say a few stupid things about his attacker after nearly being killed by it, albeit through his own ignorance.

Perhaps, but it doesn't make what he said any less ignorant. :rolleyes:

I also couldn't find anything that mentions black bear being an endangered species either in Ontario or Canada.
Sorry, my mistake, you're absolutely correct.... they're not on the endangered list.
{Mental note to self to check next time...just because I consider them all to be endangered, doesn't mean the rest of the world agrees with me :-[}

Although, their is a ton of discussion about its re-introduction in Ontario, where a lot of people feel that the moratorium ten years ago was a bad idea, and most of them have compelling arguments for that. There's a lively, and recent, discussion here - http://blogs.canoe.ca/outdoorsguy/uncategorized/cancellation-of-ontario-spring-bear-hunt/.
Gee, a whole list of people who consider trophy hunting fun and profitable. :cry:
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Yes it is interesting. If I read it correctly they are saying that even though their own studies showed that the increase in black bear-human interaction was due to human encroachment into once remote bear habitat and they couldn't find “any connection between the cancellation of the spring bear hunt and recent increases in nuisance [bear] activity” they still recommended reinstating the spring bear hunt for MONEY.

In response to growing concerns regarding black bear–human conflicts, the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources (OMNR) commissioned the Nuisance Bear Review Committee (NBRC) during 2003 to examine black bear–human interactions throughout Ontario. To some residents, the increasing human–bear interactions have resulted directly from the MSBBH. Yet, while the NBRC did not find “any connection between the cancellation of the spring bear hunt and recent increases in nuisance [bear] activity,” it did recommend that “a limited spring black bear hunt be re-instated for socioeconomic reasons, but under strict conditions” (Poulin et al. 2003)


What is now needed is greater visibility in the local media of successful bear–human conflict prevention projects that are funded by the Bear Wise program. In addition, Bear Wise and the OMNR should work in close conjunction with cities, municipalities, and First Nations to implement laws to prohibit both the intentional and unintentional feeding of bears (Peine 2001). These strategies, combined with the reintroduction of a limited spring bear hunt, may alleviate some of the perceived black bear–human conflicts (Cotton 2008). Although people’s perceptions may be inaccurate, their opinions are nevertheless important. Unless the benefits from the conservation of wildlife are obvious to people, there will be little incentive to manage natural resources sustainably (Newsome et al. 2005, Worthy and Foggin 2008).


"people’s perceptions may be inaccurate, their opinions are nevertheless important."

I think this concept is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to begin. They might as well say "Since we haven't been able to convince the stupid people not to feed the bears, let's start killing the bears during their breeding season to make the stupid people feel better."

Heimdallr, from my perspective, your links make my point for me. The bears should not have to die because the humans are ignorant and self centered. IF wildlife populations NEED to be controlled (and there is no evidence of that in the case of these Black Bears) the weak, old and infirm members of the population should be culled as quickly and humanly as possible, and their meat used to feed the hungry.

Instead, drunken bubbas are allowed to terrorize entire populations (during their breeding season) chase them down with dogs, destroy their home with ATV's, and wound god only knows how many before they finally manage to kill one so they can hang its head on a wall and brag about their "hunting skills."

I just think that we should also be a little more compassionate towards the man who nearly was killed eaten alive by a bear, one of the worst ways I could think of to die and not something that anyone deserves to experience, no matter their ignorance.

But he didn't die...for whatever reason, the bear let him live. So how does he use the life bear gave him? Does he encourage people to exercise basic common sense in the woods? NO...instead he incites people to kill bears by falsely presenting the bears as a serious threat in need of extermination, and the people who will PROFIT from their extermination hop right on the band wagon.

I feel a lot of emotions regarding people such as these, but compassion is not one of them. :curse:
 
Heimdallr said:
Well I'll go ahead and say I agreed with what Gonzo wrote. I too was taken aback by the comments directed towards someone who's main error, as far as I can tell, was to be ignorant. If we all were mocked for our ignorance and mistakes in life, their would be little time for anything else.

I could add that I thought that both Gonzo and Guardian were right. I don't disagree with anyone because I see where they're coming from. The man certainly deserves compassion for being human and making mistakes, but if I didn't notice the denial that seeks to draw in the force of government to solve the problem, then I wouldn't be getting the full impact. It was the resulting pathological-type thinking I would have ridiculed, not the man himself.

It was actually my impression that Guardian had drawn that distinction as well, but now I'm a bit confused. I do not buy the idea that emotions should be invested in either man OR nature, no matter what. It's the ignorance and unawareness of man that we fight, osit. All life CAN advance together, osit.
 
Bud said:
Guardian, do you participate in the EE meditation program? This is kinda where it shines to me.

The way I see it, our social programming is the guilty party for teaching us how to introduce 'I' into every process, but when the subject turns to our painful memories, we often prefer to conceptualize or narrate them, rather than experience them. You are building a conceptual gap between the reality and the awareness viewing that reality.

NO offense intended Bud, but I think you might be building a conceptual gap between me and the bears that doesn't exist.

When you bring 'me' and 'my' into the picture while narrating what you've seen, you are identifying with the painful memories. That simply adds emphasis to them because now you are 'bound' with them.

Exactly! Good word... I'm "bound" to them. An assault on the bears is an assault on self/soul...just like this assault on the gulf is an assault on self/soul. "I" am nature and nature is "me" ... there is no separation, no imaginary line were one ends and the other begins...nor would I wish for there to be. I can't think of a better definition of "hell" than perceiving such a lack of connection as "reality."

Do the EE. Allow yourself to grieve for your 2d friends. You want to experience that thing fully in its natural and unadulterated form at some point, so that you can let them go. You won't forget.

Thank you for the suggestion. I do have to be VERY careful when and where I chose to experience certain things fully in their natural and unadulterated form.

You'll remember more and more objectively, osit. :flowers:

We are discussing the possible slaughter of our 4 footed relatives for fun and profit. Please to tell how I'm not being objective?
 
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