Man attacked by bear

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Well here we have an example of a human who has been hurt and is irrationally vindictive towards what is essentially nature just being nature. Perhaps it would help to consider that he's not necessarily a "bad" person undeserving of life and health,

I never said he was.... please don't put words in my mouth. I said he was stupid and deserved to be mocked for his stupidity since he refuses to acknowledge it.

The reason I got that impression is because you said that you'd be rooting for the bear in that scenario, so it seemed like you felt the man deserves what's coming to him, and that if he got away without injury, I got the impression that you might even be disappointed. Would you feel any differently had he never said those vindictive things about killing bears? In other words, is it his stupidity alone that makes you not care if he got hurt, or his words afterwards (or both)?

Exactly...we've already established the difference between an ignorant person and a stupid person on another thread. I have the utmost compassion and simpathy for ignorant people.... probably because I am one. However, I DO NOT show simpathy for stupid people because in my personal experance, doing so just encourages them to be even more stupid.

From my experience if I do something stupid and get hurt, I do feel I had it coming and only have my own stupidity to blame, and laugh it off. I tend to not have the same reaction when someone else does something stupid - it's easier to feel bad for someone else than for myself for some reason. Maybe because I know I can take the pain in stride so to speak - that the physical pain doesn't cause me emotional distress per se, that it's not real "suffering", so I don't "suffer" from experiencing it, if that makes sense. But when someone else is hurt, even if it's their own fault, I feel bad, because I perceive it as suffering.

So it's ok to expose human stupidity, but we should be very serious when we do so? No lauging at the stupid people? Why?

Perhaps no laughing at the stupid people who are suffering from their stupidity? If someone runs around on ice and falls, I can feel they had it coming, but if they fall and break a bone or fall through the ice, the feeling of "they had it coming" is overpowered by feeling bad for them, despite that stupidity was still a large factor in their own suffering.

Well not everyone who ever enters a forest is an expert at all the dangers in the forest. Ideally maybe they ought to be,

"Maybe?" You have some question in your mind as to whether or not a person should educate themselves before entering potentially dangerious situations?

Well like others have mentioned, possibly that situation was never dangerous before, maybe the bears "migrated" or something. And I only said "maybe" because I don't think there is a "should", things either are a certain way or they aren't. Knowledge protects, so the intelligent and common sense thing to do is to know what you're getting into before you get into it, but not everyone has common sense, and I know there are some situations in life where we're simply unable to cover all the bases, we're limited by time, money, attention, our "nerves" and ability to function under pressure and think on our feet, etc. So everything is a risk and it's always a judgment call - is our awareness of the dangers sufficient to give us a "reasonable chance" to make it in one piece? Do we need to know more? Are we able to handle the worst case scenarios, or are we just betting on them not happening, but can still handle more minor problems along the way? Etc etc

In the situation we're discussing, the man claimed to have been taught the dangers since childhood

Yeah I don't know what that was all about, maybe he knew how to deal with it but never actually had to apply his knowledge and simply panicked? Either way I agree that was just odd..

When someone like Mr. Kibble earns themselves a do-over, I do not mourn. I save my sympathy for people who will benefit from it.

I'd agree with not helping those who don't ask, and to not pity ourselves or others, and that sometimes people's stupidity and resulting pain can be maddening, but I'm not sure if sympathy is/should be selective, and I'd appreciate if you could elaborate on that and why you have that philosophy, perhaps I'm just not understanding it. I feel that on the one hand stupid behavior SHOULD result in lessons, and often means pain - and this seems natural. But on the other hand, I'm conflicted because I never like to see anyone in pain for absolutely any reason, even if they fully brought it on themselves. So if some idiot does something, well, idiotic, and hurts himself, I always have a mix of "well he clearly had that coming" and feeling bad for him at the same time.

It doesn't matter to me how Gimpy got her limp, what matters is that she's not limping around blaming everyone else for her troubles.....and suggesting the mass slaughter of innocent life because she doesn't want to take responsibility for her own situation.

I dunno, I thought I heard her say something about mass slaughter of australian aborigines using a kung fu walking stick or something, but maybe I heard it wrong.. I'd hate to start a rumor!

Well, since mass depopulation seems inevitable, I guess I am kinda hoping the really stupid humans get to go first.

:( I am hoping the psychopaths just depopulate themselves off this planet by some freak miscalculation. I think stupid people can learn, but a psychopath can never grow a heart.

 

[Guardian]

Apparently, in Ontario, it is actually against the law to let hunted game meat spoil. You can't just kill game for the head or some other trophy piece.

Apparently Ontario is the exception to the rule in Canada....which is VERY kewl! Unfortunately this particular law just applies to Ontario :(

I was checking Canadian hunting laws last night and none of the Provinces I checked have anti spoilage laws which apply to bears. The other provinces either have no spoilage laws at all, or have exemptions for bears (and cougars)
I initially stopped looking about half-way through the list (Alberta, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Northern Territories) so I didn't notice that Ontario decided to break from the pack.... Good for them!!!!!


Only a few states in the US have similar laws too

_____________________________________________

http://www.albertaregulations.ca/
Alberta- "allow the edible meat of any game bird or big game animal, except cougar or bear, to be wasted, destroyed, spoiled or abandoned."
_____________________________________________

http://www.gov.mb.ca/conservation/wildlife/hunting/index.html
Manitoba- Retrieval and Wastage of Game
"A hunter who kills or injures a big game animal must make every reasonable effort to retrieve it. It is illegal to abandon or spoil the meat of a deer, elk, moose or caribou." {note- bears not included}

**** and*****
Black bear and sandhill crane hunting trophies that are fresh, frozen, or salted, and that are in the personal possession of the Canadian or American hunter while being exported or imported to their respective residence, are exempt from CITES permit requirements. Black bear paws and claws that are detached from the hide must be accompanied by a CITES permit.
_____________________________________________

http://www.gnb.ca/0078/Index-e.asp
New Brunswick-
{No anti spoilage law at all...and it costs and extra permit to actually keep the meat.}

"Registration permits for keeping moose, bear or deer meat are only valid until June 30 of the following year. Cost includes conservation fees collected for the Wildlife Trust Fund and tax."
_____________________________________________

http://www.enr.gov.nt.ca/_live/documents/documentManagerUpload/Hunting_guide.pdf
Northwest Territories-
"It is an offence to waste, destroy, abandon or allow to spoil:the meat of big game, other than bear, wolf or wolverine,"
_____________________________________________

http://www.gov.pe.ca/envengfor/index.php3?number=1005326
Prince Edward Island-
No laws related to spoilage that I could find.
_____________________________________________

http://www.mrnf.gouv.qc.ca/english/publications/online/wildlife/hunting-regulations/big-game/inadvertently.asp
Quebic-
The Act also states that no one may abandon edible meat of a big game animal that he has killed while hunting, except for bear meat.
_____________________________________________

http://www.environment.gov.sk.ca/Default.aspx?DN=8155f538-6052-4598-a799-d1209c01a1e9
Saskatchewan-
waste, destroy, allow to spoil or abandon the edible flesh of a game bird or big game animal, except bear.
_____________________________________________

http://environmentyukon.gov.yk.ca/huntingtrapping/documents/hunting_regs_0910web.pdf
Yukon-
"Eat that bear
The law does not require you to save the meat when you kill a bear. But if you leave the meat
in the bush, you’re giving up a lot of decent meals. To eliminate the risk of trichinosis, just
cook the meat well. If your bear has a strong flavour, marinate the meat overnight or have
it made into sausage. Pick up a copy of Yukon Bear Bacon and Boot Grease Recipes for ideas
and instructions."

 

[Guardian]

Would you feel any differently had he never said those vindictive things about killing bears?

Absolutely! It was his call to kill more bears that made VERY angry. I bet bear is wishing he finished him off...if he reads the paper (hey...if they're ringing doorbells ;D)

Perhaps no laughing at the stupid people who are suffering from their stupidity?

It's not like I'd walk into his hospital room and laugh in his face...but if he's well enough to ego-google himself...he's well enough to read that I think he's stupid.

If someone runs around on ice and falls, I can feel they had it coming, but if they fall and break a bone or fall through the ice, the feeling of "they had it coming" is overpowered by feeling bad for them, despite that stupidity was still a large factor in their own suffering.

Well yeah, if someone does something stupid and is there bleeding in front of me I'm not going to laugh at that moment. I'll wait until later to rag on them...especially if they're a friend. :P

Well like others have mentioned, possibly that situation was never dangerous before,

There are bears in the woods. There have always been bears in the woods. Mr. Kibble claimed to be a HUNTER. He should know there are bears in the woods.

maybe the bears "migrated" or something.

Yeah...they do that....in the woods.

And I only said "maybe" because I don't think there is a "should", things either are a certain way or they aren't.

Bears should be in the woods. If you are in the woods, you should expect bears to be there too. Two "should's" and a "certain" :)

In the situation we're discussing, the man claimed to have been taught the dangers since childhood

Yeah I don't know what that was all about, maybe he knew how to deal with it but never actually had to apply his knowledge and simply panicked?

I think that's called natural deselection.

I'd agree with not helping those who don't ask, and to not pity ourselves or others, and that sometimes people's stupidity and resulting pain can be maddening, but I'm not sure if sympathy is/should be selective, and I'd appreciate if you could elaborate on that and why you have that philosophy, perhaps I'm just not understanding it.

Put simply....I don't have time to waste on stupid people.

I dunno, I thought I heard her say something about mass slaughter of australian aborigines using a kung fu walking stick or something, but maybe I heard it wrong.. I'd hate to start a rumor!

Good idea... 'cause I could see her taking a poke at someone for starting rumors in a Guy Fawkes mask

:( I am hoping the psychopaths just depopulate themselves off this planet by some freak miscalculation. I think stupid people can learn, but a psychopath can never grow a heart.

True, but without the stupid people, the psychopaths would be practically powerless.

 

[Gimpy]

Quote from: Guardian
It doesn't matter to me how Gimpy got her limp, what matters is that she's not limping around blaming everyone else for her troubles.....and suggesting the mass slaughter of innocent life because she doesn't want to take responsibility for her own situation.


Sao:
I dunno, I thought I heard her say something about mass slaughter of australian aborigines using a kung fu walking stick or something, but maybe I heard it wrong.. I'd hate to start a rumor!

No, I love the Australian Aborigines. :D Any people who can live for thousands of years in a country with more poisonous animals than any other continent on earth and thrive, I have to tip my hat to. :D

The cane I have is made of hickory wood, and has a burnt finish on it. Its heavy, about 3 lbs, and at the time was advertised as a 'street fighting' cane. It came in a package and was made to measure so it would fit me perfectly. Its taken some horrible abuse, and helped me with all manner of daily activities, even yoga and exercise. While it also came with the cane master series of fighting techniques, I've rarely had to use them. Usually just seeing me flip the thing around a time or two is enough to keep trouble away. :) Practicing the techniques is a good arm workout though.

You can find the them here: http://www.canemasters.com/products_new.html?page=17&disp_order=6

The package I bought is at the top and now called "Street Package", and its much cheaper than when I first bought mine. They've also added some pretty cool physical rehabilitation packages, a yoga package, and a Tai Chi package. The styles and kinds of canes offered has expanded, which is really good to see. They make great canes, and I think provide self esteem to people coping with illness and injury. I'd encourage everyone to look through the site and see what they have to offer.

"Fallen Foo" is a moniker coined around 2004 or 5, and has to do with falling down without getting seriously hurt. ;) I've learned over the years how to spot any available hand hold and use it to keep from breaking my bones. A Kata in Fallen Foo is basically getting the laundry up and downstairs without rag dolling down them and ending up with my feet over my head. Any time I can avoid a bad fall by hanging on to a wall, chair, door handle, etc, is a kind of "Kata."

I started joking about it when I bent down to tie my shoes one morning and somersaulted into the bathroom. One: it was a surprise. Two: Ow, it hurt. Three: I laughed so hard I about peed myself. And Fallen Foo was born. :D

 

[anart]

I do wonder if the bear had any idea his actions would prompt such a heated discussion?

 

[Guardian]

I started joking about it when I bent down to tie my shoes one morning and somersaulted into the bathroom. One: it was a surprise. Two: Ow, it hurt. Three: I laughed so hard I about peed myself. And Fallen Foo was born. :D

Now that's a mental image I'm not going to be able to get rid of for awhile.

It almost sounds like Fallen Foo might be related to the "Cat Kata" ....when the cat runs between your feet and you go through all kinds of weird gyrations trying not to fall down.

 

[Guardian]

I do wonder if the bear had any idea his actions would prompt such a heated discussion?

I'm willing to bet bear gave more thought to his actions that day than the man did. ;)

 

[go2]

Come on, give the guy a break, he went hand-to-hand with a 600 hundred pound bear and survived!
Both the bear and man deserve our admiration and awe for their roles in this vivid tale of what must have
been a common event during the millions of years of evolution of a three brained being on a planet teeming
with large and dangerous carnivores.

 

[Laura]

The guy who almost got eaten (only parts eaten) was obviously an ordinary, mechanical guy, raised up by the pathological system that runs our world so his actions and reactions are just mechanical. That means, what he was doing and how he got into the mess in the first place were mechanical actions and his response to what happened were programmed and mechanical. He was/is asleep and ignorant. He deserves our compassion for that and for what he suffered. He also deserves our compassion for his ignorant reaction to the incident: that he suffers such poverty of spirit that he wants to go out and get revenge on a BEAR, fer gawd's sake, for doing what is natural (i.e. mechanical) for bears.

The difference between the guy and the bear is that the guy COULD - if he chose and had the opportunity and capacity - to awaken. That's just a slim possibility. But even if he could not awaken personally, the environment COULD be different if more people were working on the problems of our macro-social world in a dedicated way and even mechanical people could learn to be mechanical in positive ways.

The bear, on the other hand, will always and ever be a mechanical bear doing what bears do and no amount of effort will wake up the bear to the fact that humans are mechanical. Expecting the bear to be different is like expecting apples to fall upward. It's extremely unlikely - vanishingly unlikely.

Bears - and most other wildlife - are under extreme threat on this planet due to the above mentioned pathological environment - rules, philosophies, societies created and influenced by psychopathy.

In a way, the whole situation is kind of like the BP disaster. The guy is like BP and the bear is like the oil gushing out of the ground, just doing what oil does when people drill holes in the earth. The people who got killed on the oil platform are like the guy getting attacked by the bear. They got killed because the oil and pressure and stuff is what it is and does what it does and there were pathological people in charge who controlled the mechanics of the situation in an unsafe way just as there are pathologicals that create the standards of our society that made the man ignorant in his interactions with the bear, and deprived him of the insight to even perceive that.

But in general, the whole thing would not have happened - the bear incident or the BP disaster - if human beings were not greedy for oil and money and if they were not out there in the Gulf drilling for oil or out there in the woods unprepared for bears and other natural forces/living things.

See?

 

[Guardian]

See?

Well, I see that you and some others here have a great deal more compassion for stupid people who harm nature than I do, but I already knew... and admired that. :)

 

[Gimpy]

But in general, the whole thing would not have happened - the bear incident or the BP disaster - if human beings were not greedy for oil and money and if they were not out there in the Gulf drilling for oil or out there in the woods unprepared for bears and other natural forces/living things.

See?

Yes. ;) And its that compassion that is given the man mauled by the bear. The situation in the Gulf is an order of magnitude bigger, which makes it tougher to handle at times.

 

[Tigersoap]

This one is for Guardian :D ;)



(Picture by Eduardo Diaz Bourgeot)

 

[Guardian]

This one is for Guardian :D ;)



(Picture by Eduardo Diaz Bourgeot)

Oh that's a keeper :)

 

[treesparrow]

Another bear attack -

'Mum, the bear is eating me!': Frantic final phone calls of woman, 19, eaten alive by brown bear and its three cubs

* Stepfather was also killed in the brutal attack

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2026914/Mum-bear-eating--Final-phone-calls-woman-19-eaten-alive-brown-bear-cubs.html

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There seems to have been a spate of bear attacks recently ( May to August) -

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/233166-Norway-Polar-Bear-That-Killed-Student-Was-Starving

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/231167-US-Grizzly-Kills-Hiker-in-Yellowstone-National-Park

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/231809-US-Bear-Mauls-Boy-at-Colorado-Bowhunting-Gathering

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/231189-Canada-Rampaging-Polar-Bear-Shot-in-Churchill

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2018422/Teenager-Samuel-Gottsegen-mauled-grizzly-bear-Alaska-describes-ordeal.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1390361/Woman-survives-bear-attack-confronted-beast-home.html

 

[bltay]

The article listed above about the bear attack in Yellowstone does not tell the entire story. The husband and wife hikers came across the sow with cubs and stayed in the area. The last time they saw them, the mama bear raised up and they realized she had become aware of their presence. The husband panicked and started running down the trail and the bear instinctively ran after and attacked and killed him. The wife laid face down on the ground in a defeated position and the bear took a single swipe at her and then left her alone.

The National Park Service teaches that hikers should not run from bears, that they should do exactly what the wife did. Bears do not normally want to eat or attack people. If a person lies down as stated, the bear sees the person as no threat and usually leaves them alone. I have been around a number of black and grizzly bears in Yellowstone Park, and the grizzlies just ignore me and the black bears run away. But when I see a bear with cubs, I walk slowly away and do not return to the area. I cannot understand why anyone would run from a bear. The fastest human can run just under a 4 minute mile, which is about 15 mph. Bears can easily cover ground at 30 mph. So running is just a waste of time and energy. Also, these hikers were not carrying bear (pepper) spray, which is strong enough to deter any bear from attacking. It seems to me they were just not prepared for the hike they went on.

I know a guy who lived in Alaska for a number of years. He stated Polar Bears are just mean and will attack just about anything. They must have a completely different temperament from grizzly and black bears. He said if he knew a Polar Bear was anywhere around him, he would immediately get away from it.