Music Collaboration

[mkrnhr]

In order to play online, did you considered the possibility of using such a software as teamspeak? It works very well for online game playing.

 

[cholas]

Usually it is better to record the original sound with no special effets so the reverbs, chorus and other effects can be introduced in the end mix so that it matches with other instruments. This is for mixing.

Thanks for the helpful hint mkrnhr.

Added effects are such a temptation early on, but it makes a lot of sense to wait for a 'finished', more polished mix.

 

[abstract]

In order to play online, did you considered the possibility of using such a software as teamspeak? It works very well for online game playing.

something like that might be cool to add later on, unless there's a practical way to do it now.

 

[D Rusak]

Hi,
I do music for a living, would be able to contribute some playing. My main instrument is trumpet. I also play horn, trombone, baritone/euphonium, and recorders (SATB- basically, high ones, middle ones, and low ones, just like voices), and this bizarre renaissance instrument called the cornetto (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTxUcOVWShU for an example) professionally. I play clarinet passably well in certain keys (ha). Not sure exactly where things fit in with this piece right now but perhaps some creative juices will get flowing.

 

[abstract]

do music for a living, would be able to contribute some playing. My main instrument is trumpet. I also play horn, trombone, baritone/euphonium, and recorders (SATB- basically, high ones, middle ones, and low ones, just like voices), and this bizarre renaissance instrument called the cornetto (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTxUcOVWShU for an example) professionally. I play clarinet passably well in certain keys (ha). Not sure exactly where things fit in with this piece right now but perhaps some creative juices will get flowing.

Well hello D Rusak! I've always wanted to try combining guitar with some of those instruments. What are some easy keys to play in for those instruments? We could whip something up right now.

:D

EDIT: that piece on youtube was simply beautiful.

 

[D Rusak]

The keys aren't an issue for me on the brass instruments an flute, anyway. The only ones that are weird are the renaissance ones (recorders/cornetto) since they were transitioning to chromaticism and are based on a different tuning system (meantone). Basically that means that the distance between notes is not the same (C to C# is different than C# to D, etc), so for those it can get a little tricky. In the baroque period there was a push to have things equal- case in point, Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier, which demonstrated that music could sound good in all keys. My instruments are keyed for 440 which is about what people tune to now in most instances (orchestras can be slightly higher), so at least we don't have to worry about historical tuning (A=anything from 415 to 470 or more, yikes! This would make A really flat or really sharp, basically.)

Which ones were you going to write for? If it's for recorders- C, F, Bb, G, D, A work (and their associated minor keys, though they didn't call it that back then). Clarinet- why don't you come up with something- or play what you want and I can come up with something over it.

 

[abstract]

Which ones were you going to write for? If it's for recorders- C, F, Bb, G, D, A work (and their associated minor keys, though they didn't call it that back then). Clarinet- why don't you come up with something- or play what you want and I can come up with something over it.

Weeeell...C is a good key, no sharps or flats, i love the sound of D minor! Let's keep it simple since we have to collaborate online???

I'll see what I can do with those two keys, those are the most guitar friendly for me...oh wait...G major would be excellent, since it's relative to E minor, let's do that! :D

E minor and G major work for you??? I figure it's easy since those two scales are really the same scale. On a side not I don't understand why so many people struggle with the scales...

 

[D Rusak]

Some people may avoid working on various scales since so much of pop music is written in a relatively few number of keys, especially for self-taught musicians, they might only learn from songs, and the songs all are in G, C, D, etc. Coming from a classical background it is emphasized that you know all of them, you see music in many keys. One other issue though is that on a lot of the wind and brass instruments it simply is easier to play in certain keys. The instruments are "natural" to a certain key- for instance, the clarinet is in Bb (the one kids play in band). One can play in Bb (on the instrument we call it C, the instrument is transposing) using just the normal holes down the middle of the instrument. Once you start going in keys that are further and further away from C you have to do more things to lower or raise the pitch to make it chromatic. On the woodwind instruments this involves cross-fingering (ie, instead of just removing one finger at a time in order, you might remove the lowest, then the next finger, and then only have 1 and 3 of that hand down, looks like a fork or the "I love you" sign) or using all these keys to the side of the instrument that you push down with your finger or the side of your finger. It can get kind of awkward. So in this sense chromaticism is not as easy as on string instruments where you can just slide your finger up to shorten/lengthen the string. But everyone should know all the scales, definitely!

 

[cholas]

'Red Pill Records'

This idea has really been on my mind of late. It's like having an intense urge to give to the group, but not being 'together' enough to pull it off. And of course brainstorming alone only goes so far. ;)

Originally I was a little concerned with posting original music on the forum without the benefit of it being copyrighted. Any thoughts on this? Is the FOTCM a better place?
And is it possible to put together high quality recordings just via internet? I have some friends that create albums long-distance, but not sure if they actually get together for the final recording or not.

Also, for those interested, should we have a little tally of folks here and their 'instrument(s)'/gifts of choice?

Again maybe cart-before-horse here, but is it possible to get various groups together to actually perform live in various places? For example, where I live I could guarantee at least 2 nights at a fairly reputable venue, paid, for a group, depending on the type of music. What if many of us could do the same in our relative locales? I would think working hand-in-hand with the future EE groups in regard to creating meditative-type music is also an option.

I've been pretty busy lately but the work season is soon coming to a close and I should have lots of time to devote to this end.

Am I jumping the gun here a bit?

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Bidoche]

Thanks for your thoughts.

Cholas, in order to put together an "Internet band", there has to be someone who coordinates everything. Understanding recording and having the necessary hardware/software is essential. In today's digital world, one would have to be familiar with using a sequencer (Cubase, Cakewalk, etc.) so that the individual participations would be correctly aligned.

The Internet has been around since 1994, yet it has only been a few years since broadband (as opposed to dial-up) has become the norm. Sending mp3's via email with, let's say, a maximum of 10MB per track is entirely possible. Other methods include recording one's work in WAV format and putting it onto CD-R. This could be sent via the Post Office.

It's definitely not an easy task, however quite possible. The first thing in my opinion would be for someone to create a "base track", i.e. a skeletal composition that could be downloadable (from this site?) and worked upon at home. Let me know how this sounds to you.

 

[cholas]

Thanks Bidoche.
What really has been feeding this fire is doing a bit of recording on a new album a friend is putting together at his home studio. I'm not sure what software he's using, being pretty ignorant in this area, but he uses 2 macs and the finished product is as good as anything coming from hardware-oriented studios. Amazing actually. And for him anyway, pretty easy to use.

Understanding recording and having the necessary hardware/software is essential. In today's digital world, one would have to be familiar with using a sequencer (Cubase, Cakewalk, etc.) so that the individual participations would be correctly aligned.

This is a bit outside of my understanding/experience. There was mention of software earlier in this thread and it does seem like a 'central hub' to collect/mix various pieces using these types of tools is pretty key.

I'm still a little unclear whether there is a need to copyright. A friend apparently sent a cd to the Library of Congress with his original songs on it and with the addition of a nominal fee, that was it. ?? So as far as downloading the 'base songs' from the internet(I don't think it can be from this forum in particular), should they be protected?

Imo, collaborating on music within the group could be very beneficial both in a financial sense(selling cd's, songs) as well as accompanying other projects(meditative music with the EE program). Of course having songs that contain lyrics illuminating the collected work and knowledge found here is quite a powerful by-product.

But of course this has been mentioned earlier....... :/

 

[Bidoche]

Understanding recording and having the necessary hardware/software is essential. In today's digital world, one would have to be familiar with using a sequencer (Cubase, Cakewalk, etc.) so that the individual participations would be correctly aligned.

This is a bit outside of my understanding/experience. There was mention of software earlier in this thread and it does seem like a 'central hub' to collect/mix various pieces using these types of tools is pretty key.

A sequencer runs like this:
track 1 (the base track)
track 2 (ex. drums)
track 3 (ex. bass)
track 4 (ex. guitar)
track 5 (ex. piano)
track 6 (ex. brass)
track 7 (ex. vocals)

etc. - some songs can have as many as 256 tracks [multiple entries for drums; rhythm/lead guitar, as examples].

The tempo is set according to the base track (which could just be a short synthesizer patch looped over or a complete song including changes). Participating musicians would record their parts by importing the base track into their recording software and then generating a WAV or MP3 file of their performance. It would be of the same length and tempo. The coordinator would then add this new track (as explained above) to the sequencing software. I hope this is comprehensible?

I'm still a little unclear whether there is a need to copyright. A friend apparently sent a cd to the Library of Congress with his original songs on it and with the addition of a nominal fee, that was it. ?? So as far as downloading the 'base songs' from the internet(I don't think it can be from this forum in particular), should they be protected?

If the "group" plans on selling the finished items, let that decision be made later on.

Imo, collaborating on music within the group could be very beneficial both in a financial sense(selling cd's, songs) as well as accompanying other projects(meditative music with the EE program). Of course having songs that contain lyrics illuminating the collected work and knowledge found here is quite a powerful by-product.

I agree :D



Edit=Quotes

 

[cholas]

I just wanted to revisit this thread and ask if folks here are still interested in a music collaboration of sorts. ?

Maybe we might still be able to put together a professional-sounding CD or such(iTunes) that can used by SoTT, etc. as a source of income(I was remembering the 'pledge drives' that NPR used to do where you received a cd of nice music if you donated x amount).

As mentioned earlier, I can donate music/songs to the project(a few SoTT, Cass-inspired originals) but am still rather ignorant of the logistics involved including mixing. It sounds like a few of you understand this aspect quite well though?

This summer has been one of other types of work but we have been back in the studio doing some recording lately and so I thought maybe this might be a good time. I could prolly wrestle some help from some of the other musicians/studio folks around here.

Who's in?

 

[cholas]

In reviewing all the posts here and the wonderful creativity it had already produced, I wanted to make a little, and very much partial list of those who stated an interest in the hopes that maybe we can continue. Of course it's surely been a busy time for most of you, especially with the Conference coming up and all. Maybe those of you traveling to France might have the opportunity to have a discussion together in this vein?

Abstract: Guitars, programming
Nomad: Bass, synth, keyboards
Alejo: Guitars, graphics
mkrnhr: Finger-picking guitars
987baz: Guitars, vocals, keyboard, programming, video
Breton: Lyrics, organizination of
Gawan: Lyrics, organization of
DanielS: Bass, guitars
RyanX: (unclear)
D.Rusak: Trumpet, horns, flutes, whistles
Bidoche: Bass, mixing
cholas: Vocals, lyrics, guitars, percussion

And many, many more right?

As has been mentioned, a 'central hub' where pieces can be sent might be a good start. Ideas?

For those with the time/interest, here is a group from Winnepeg who recently made a very interesting yet inexpensive video to go with one of their newer meaningful songs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOCqDXocucU&feature=related

All you graphic artists and video folks: Is something like this fairly straightforward to create? The possibilities seem endless.

 

[Bidoche]

As has been mentioned, a 'central hub' where pieces can be sent might be a good start. Ideas?

For those with the time/interest, here is a group from Winnepeg who recently made a very interesting yet inexpensive video to go with one of their newer meaningful songs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOCqDXocucU&feature=related

All you graphic artists and video folks: Is something like this fairly straightforward to create? The possibilities seem endless.

Cholas,

When I clicked on your YouTube link, I got the message "This video contains content from EMI. It is not available in your country". Talk about freedom of expression!

Possibly the only way for the "central hub" idea to work is not through the Internet, but through the mail. I've been doing musical collaborations for over a decade. Musicians send me their base tracks in WAV form on a cd-rom (formerly on cassette tape) which I then either work with on the computer or transfer to my multi-track tape setup. MP3's can be sent via email but the quality as it is compressed is far inferior to the original wave format. If you're interested in a one-to-one collaboration (that could be supplemented at a later date with additional brass, keyboards, etc.), send me something through the post to the following address: Invasion, P.O. Box 70, 1752 Villars 2, Switzerland. If there are others who would like to contribute to the mix, make yourselves known.