My petty tyrant (Not dealing very well)

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

Reading Tigersoap's account (a bit late, I'm sorry), I must say I kinda disagree with him. I think that he has sold himself a bit short in his account of the way he handles that person. Usually, even when he is boiling inside, he manages to stay very polite, saying things like 'Please, do not talk to me this way' or 'Please let me answer you'. And usually he is met with a tsunami of words and accusations while he does not say anything. Then when he's drained out he will try (!) and stop the conversation. Once, that person even demanded that he said he was sorry for having been such a pain! I mean, talk about manipulation and projection!

I agree that he should not let himself be played like that, that he is the one doing The Work, etc. but simply backing off (if I understood some of the advice properly) and agreeing with that person will, I think, only make matters worse: first of all, agreeing will often mean having impossible deadlines to meet/working on projects he's not interested in (when he dares to refuse a project, that person badgers him into agreeing, imposing 45 minutes of non-stop drivel sometimes and Tigersoap then finds himself forced to retract later on, making things even worse).

Second of all, I think that with some people, you have to really put your foot down or they just eat you alive. I have an example from a lady at work: she is one the bosses and everybody is terrified of her - she fires people and tries to make them make mistakes so she doesn't have to pay redundancy money, she makes unreasonable, personal demands (like 'go see my kid in the hospital, he needs a change of clothes and I'm too busy!!!), she calls people at 10 o'clock at night, etc. - Everybody is acquiescing to what she says. My colleague and I on the other hand won't play that game. On several occasions, i had arguments with her where, seeing that I would not budge an inch, she declared forfeit and stormed out of my office really angry.
But since then, she stopped asking me/my colleague anything and our contacts are only sporadic (maybe she will retaliate one day, mind you ;)). But in the meantime, she's getting worse and worse with the (agreeing) others and they cannot take it anymore.

So, what is the best solution? Maybe the person Tigersoap is talking about is the kind which, when confronted with someone 'playing dead', will only be aggravated and become more and more ferocious? Some (disturbed) people only have 'respect' for you if they see that you're not a pushover and these people may consider agreeing all the time as being a pushover...

I'm sorry if it looks like I'm representing Tigersoap (he's a big boy, he doesn't need it), but I'm not, I just thought he was not giving a very complete picture by not giving himself any credit..

 

[vinny]

I think the best solution to defend yourself, when someone is looking to manipulate you, is to be able to not give them anything to hook onto. So, this involves making a stand, internally, not being hooked emotionally (which requires great control over one's machine, and one's sense of punctured self-importance) and finding the right way to make a stand, so that you are no longer food. The best way to do this is not outwardly show that you are affected in any way, (ie: no emotional response), but to stand your ground, and if at all possible to arrange things so that you have absolute minimal contact/interaction with this person. Easier said than done, but if you can successfully remove yourself from being a 'food supply', after an initial difficult period where the predator will most likely escalate things, desperate to maintain feeding, eventually the predator will move on to easier prey.

 

[Gimpy]

I agree that he should not let himself be played like that, that he is the one doing The Work, etc. but simply backing off (if I understood some of the advice properly) and agreeing with that person will, I think, only make matters worse: first of all, agreeing will often mean having impossible deadlines to meet/working on projects he's not interested in (when he dares to refuse a project, that person badgers him into agreeing, imposing 45 minutes of non-stop drivel sometimes and Tigersoap then finds himself forced to retract later on, making things even worse).

Not answering isn't backing off. :) Its refusing to engage and be drained. When the guy develops verbal diarrhea, hang up the phone. If he calls back, screen the calls, and if necessary turn off the ringer. A professional does not clutter up another's time by being long winded. You communicate whats needed for the job, and get back to work. If this dude is promising Tigersoap for jobs, it makes me wonder if he is having trouble doing his own job. He knows he can wear Tiger down or just dump a job on him, and he may be trying to save his position.

No means no. My Hubby used to have people call to sell him things, he simply stated:"No, I'm not going to do that. I'm not interested." When they kept at it, he simply said "No." One sales rep went a little nuts on him, screaming all kinds of obscenities at him, but he never wavered. That's his way.

Mine is just as simple.

I'm amazed that people won't hang up the phone for fear of being rude. When polite doesn't work, hang up. If this man is badgering you, block him while you're working, or turn the ringer off and let him vent to voice mail. I used to do this at work when there was a deadline. It was common knowledge not to interrupt during a crunch in the office, and I took steps to make sure. The only people who had a problem with it were the gadflies.

When the man complains, just state that you are working on a project and do not have time to stop. If he demands you take a job, and you know you cant make the deadline, say so and hang up. Don't wait for the tirade, you're too busy to waste working hours on non business talk.

Have I done this myself? Yes. It did work, and in some cases after the abusive person threw such a blatant fit that his/her coworkers suggested a vacation or counseling. ;) One was my boss at the time, and the problem was solved by changing departments.

 

[vinny]

I'm amazed that people won't hang up the phone for fear of being rude. When polite doesn't work, hang up. If this man is badgering you, block him while you're working, or turn the ringer off and let him vent to voice mail.

another solution: put the receiver on the desk so you can't hear it, and let 'em rant, into thin air. They'll hang up eventually, when they finally realise no-one is listening.

 

[Gimpy]

I'm amazed that people won't hang up the phone for fear of being rude. When polite doesn't work, hang up. If this man is badgering you, block him while you're working, or turn the ringer off and let him vent to voice mail.

another solution: put the receiver on the desk so you can't hear it, and let 'em rant, into thin air. They'll hang up eventually, when they finally realise no-one is listening.

:D

Hubby does this one too. It does work.

 

[Rhansen]

I think that with some people, you have to really put your foot down or they just eat you alive.

Maybe the person Tigersoap is talking about is the kind which, when confronted with someone 'playing dead', will only be aggravated and become more and more ferocious? Some (disturbed) people only have 'respect' for you if they see that you're not a pushover and these people may consider agreeing all the time as being a pushover...

I think you may be right, it has worked for me a few times in the past. If avoiding this person makes him more aggrivated then I would say that a (carefully chosen) confrontation should help, the key OSIT, is to do so without becoming angry or flustered.

 

[Marcus-Aurelius]

[quote author=Ana]Maybe the only way to stop the machine outside ourselves, is to stop the machine inside ourselves[/quote]
I tend to agree with this (at least it's working for me). I think that you need to work on observing yourself when dealing with this person; this will help you keep your head cold and see all his moves in advance, giving you the opportunity to anticipate them or point out to him exactly what he's trying to do at the very time he's starting it. He will surely try to argue with you, don't give him this pleasure. Just ask him you both come back to the main subject of the conversation, if he persists, you can still hang up the phone as suggested by Gimpy. You will see his self-confidence decreases progressively.

It is currently working wonderfully for me with my petty tyrant (my older brother that is). It took me awhile to be able to remain calm when he pushes my buttons, but seems like am succeeding. I arrived to the point where as soon as I see him approaching, I become alert, not tensed but "extremely present" and this comes naturally. In that way, I can smell his covert attack/manipulation before it has even completely crossed his lips. And at this very moment I begin to smile what seems to destabilize him then once he stops, I point to him in what way he's trying to manipulate me, to make me do a definite thing/take a definite decision. I've become quite good at it, so it seems like he has stepped back lately. But I know I must stay vigilant.

There is also a post from someone quoting a book on how to behave when dealing with narcissists I came accross some weeks ago, but Ican't find it right now. think it should be of help to you. Will post it here as soon as I retrieve it.

Edit: grammar

 

[manitoban]

I'm amazed that people won't hang up the phone for fear of being rude. When polite doesn't work, hang up. If this man is badgering you, block him while you're working, or turn the ringer off and let him vent to voice mail.

another solution: put the receiver on the desk so you can't hear it, and let 'em rant, into thin air. They'll hang up eventually, when they finally realise no-one is listening.

Yeah - sometimes its good to remember the telephone is your servant, not your master!

 

[Lirpa]

My fave response it to just listen to them, knodding my head to indicate that I am hearing what they are saying, then when they are done I say neutrally "That is an interesting opinion, I will have to think about that and get back to you". I make sure that my tone is not snide or overly sweet either.

It just kind of takes the wind out of the crap they are spewing at you.

Also I have learned to never conciliate with a bully. When he starts talking over you, don't raise your voice just say that you won't be able to talk to him until he calms down and just hang up. Don't even give him one chance to stop or continue the conversation.

If he calls back, answer the phone as if the previous conversation never happened and it never upset you. Answer it like it is the first call of the day...like "Hello this is so and so how can I help you? Oh hello, so and so what can I do for you?" If he starts in again, hang up.

This may not work for you but it worked very well for me.

Also when he tells you that other people can do the project in less time, just ignore the bait and say this is the amount of time that it will take me and if this meets your needs I will be more than happy to accept the project. If this is not acceptable, then you will have to call the client back and advise them.

Put it all back on him everytime.

 

[Voyageur]

Hi Tigersoap,

Communicating on a phone in business offers some of the strangest dialogs that can happen ; we are blind behind the veil and distracted by tone and the conditions that exist on either end. On the one end, the communicating end, we do not see what is driving them, the pressures that their business projects. On the receiving end, we try to decipher instantaneously their needs against ours in harmonious dealings, yet sometimes, the tone conjures up our programs or ours ignites theirs, sometimes it is the pauses, the perceived inattention or unruly demands that become the barriers. Listening intently, as was suggested, is often key. But the business needs on either end drives the needs and wants with so many differences in between.

Common for me is to work with people employed by business form A – Z and am always astounded, depending on the business, how those at the top treat their staff. There are tyrants sitting behind a thousand desks, attached to phones and they can be difficult indeed. Often am left to conclude that the very act of Business and the law that drives their charters, and the demands the design of the corporate functions inflict on those behind the desks is a reason. Those behind the desks just do not see what their corporate shells they work under does to their well being. Perhaps of the thousands of desks like this, the true tyrants are much less and generally elevated up the chain.

Mrs.Tigersoap said;

Maybe the person Tigersoap is talking about is the kind which, when confronted with someone 'playing dead', will only be aggravated and become more and more ferocious?

Yes, sometimes it seems that weakness is discerned from the other end, and if they are gifted orators, they can eat you alive; for me that’s when I want to say, “say I need to call you back”, and think about EE breathing :) ; at least that’s what might be the best course of action to change the dynamic.

 

[no-mans-land]

Hi Tigersoap

Maybe I can contribute something here.

sometimes unrelated to the discussion to belittle me or compare me as to produce shame (ex:some people do the same work as you in 24 hours.)

This behavior has a simple reason, to bring you into the defence (I think you know that). If something like this is happen again, you can easily change the situation into your advantage by the request to go more into the details, like "oh really? can you explain it more precisely? where exactly do you think is the problem?" or if he says "some people do the work as you in 24 hours" you can ask "what makes the different?".

The idea is, that this person could not respond to such a kind of questions without to reveal the emptiness behind his attack. And of course, he don't want to look like a fool, so he will beat around the bush and you can easily play this "what do you mean" game as long he gives up. Try to nail him down on every statement he makes as a attack against you. Do not react defensive and heat up, but rather take his statement, make it to the subject and squeeze it out, smooth and calmly. This is quite funny.

 

[Tigersoap]

The idea is, that this person could not respond to such a kind of questions without to reveal the emptiness behind his attack. And of course, he don't want to look like a fool, so he will beat around the bush and you can easily play this "what do you mean" game as long he gives up. Try to nail him down on every statement he makes as a attack against you. Do not react defensive and heat up, but rather take his statement, make it to the subject and squeeze it out, smooth and calmly. This is quite funny.

Hi No-man's-land,

It seems to me that by doing this you just try to gain the upper hand over the other person, which is not in line with the work and stalking the predator, if the conversation turns into a power play it cannot be something that's going to help mastering your own emotions, on the contrary, I think it gives fuel for the predator to puff itself like a baloon osit.

 

[no-mans-land]

Hi No-man's-land,

It seems to me that by doing this you just try to gain the upper hand over the other person, which is not in line with the work and stalking the predator

I don't know, when my goal is to stop the predator to feed on me, is that a kind of stalking? To do this every time and for fun, then its sure a game to raise the upper hand, which is just a sensless fight and truly not in line of the work (as I understand it). But this is not the object. The purpose is to point out to the predator, that he will not get food anymore no matter how often he will try.

on the contrary, I think it gives fuel for the predator to puff itself like a baloon osit.

Yes, this is a possibility.

if the conversation turns into a power play it cannot be something that's going to help mastering your own emotions

For me, at least, it is very difficult to not express unpleasant emotions and to deal with such a kind of petty tyrants you have to face, the behavior like I described, is a heavy mental exercise to hold my emotions, words and actions under control. Anyway, I dint had much opportunity's to do this, but during this rare occasions it helped me to gain a inner distance about the confrontation and give the overrunning emotions space and don't let them act out through a "foggy mind". The short questions you give don't need much coordination or thinking because its just like a short program which can help jump-start to give time to deal with the upcoming emotions.

Sorry if the previous post sounds like "fun sport", I was in good mood to find a opportunity to contribute something and didn't noticed the shift away from external to internal considering, and what a huge amount of internal considering. Just want to look like a funny guy who knows something.

 

[stellar]

My suggestion is to search/think further back in your life for other people/petty tyrants who have managed to activate this programme in you. How did you handle it then ? Why do you react the way you do? How have your reactions changed over the years & if they haven't - why not?

 

[bjorb]

- Hey tigersoap actually I wouldn’t know. It depends on your working conditions

sometimes unrelated to the discussion to belittle me or compare me as to produce shame (ex:some people do the same work as you in 24 hours.)

Responding towards his attack indeed falls in line with his tactic of trying to push your buttons.

But: What can the result be of such a remark, it implies you may miss a promotion or even lose your job.

He may not be in the position to decide so, still what if he tries to manipulate others. Spread negative rumors about your work.

This isn’t in your interest.

And especially since you don’t react towards his attack, his next tactic may be intro trying to focus on others to set them against you.

If a situation like this can occur because of his in-justified remark against your work I think it’s best to defend yourself.

Next to that defending yourself without getting the predator mind getting the best over you shows more mastery than just avoiding such a situation.

But like I said I don’t know your working conditions. If his remark is no danger towards you. Than reacting on it seems not to be necessary.