Negative emotions on a global scale

[Joe]

The following is taken from a post from 2006 by Laura in this topic. The quote is from Mouravieff's 'Gnosis' books.

Wars and revolutions are certainly calamities for the generations that suffer them, but ancient and modern History show us that they provoke a recrudescence of human activity not only on the battlefields but also in the chancelleries and in the silent studies of philosophers and men of letters, as well as in the laboratories and factories. And it is from that activity, provoked if not imposed by the calamities of wars, that marvels are born for the following generations. This is one indirect but clearly positive effect of negative emotions. We may even add that, without negative emotions, the door onto the path of access to evolution would be closed to individuals as well as to human groups.

The entire post by Laura is worth reading, but it got me thinking about negative emotions and their usefulness, or even requirement, in esoteric work. In the above quote M. refers to negative emotions on a social or global scale creating wars and then leading to an increased output of human activity in all spheres and that this is one positive outcome of negative emotions. I'm not too sure about that idea given what we know about psychopathy, but the idea might have merit in a different sense.

Just before the above quote in that post by Laura M. says

the positive effects of negative emotions lies in the fact that they serve as awakening alarms. Their dynamism communicates impulses to the individual which force him to act.

The widespread global suffering that is probably coming down the pipeline will likely have this effect on humanity, a shock to the entire world - "awakening alarms" - forcing people to act. Of course, the core and vital question is how people will act. How they will act will depend on their understanding of the "alarms" and what they mean. Throw in the idea of small groups of people disseminating a truth signal to the world acting like "homeopathic dose" that can, by resonance, influence the entire world, and we have an idea of why and how the work we're doing here, to help people understand and prepare, may be vitally important.

Anyway, just thought it was interesting how this idea of negative emotions and their use by the individual to further him/her in the Work can apply macroscopically. "As above so below".

 

[Esote]

Just finished reading and thinking about this topic when your post caught my eye, Joe, when I was going to shut down my computer.

AFAIK, nowadays negative emotions on a global scale (will) force the individual to make a choice, in between :

• To walk with Knowledge on the path of Love-compassion, for the good and the evolution of the whole of Humanity
• Or to indulge in selfishness, greed, competition, ignorance, violence and all that sort of behaviors leading to a dehumanized world

It could be said in other words...

Thanks for sharing this

 

[Michael B-C]

Thanks for posting this Joe. In Laura's thread you refer to she quotes the line 'We must regard the present state of the universe as the effect of its past and the cause of its future'. In this sense surely the highly negative influence of Psychopathy is an example of a high information/high potential for development opportunity for consciousness in the future. Despite its apparent monstrous consequences it offers the greatest possible 'gift' for learning. The negative emotions generated have the potential for stimulating equally strong positive emotions via growth of awareness and of compassion and a shedding of necessary illusions, all of which may not come about without such a negatively intense 'lesson'. I've learnt that - painfully - by coming up close and personal with one and experiencing the burn of learning. So is not psychopathy just another name of god, if in a most wrathful state? Without the spur of psychopathy we humans may never reach our potential. Of course that is the sts hope/plan but as we know they are the kings of wishful thinking. Just a thought in passing.

 

[gdpetti]

And perhaps planned from the top, as the Dracos would seem to be a bottleneck in the STS system itself and need their own chance to move on or move out. They must be preventing all beneath them from moving on so that they can maintain their position in the COC... if I remember correctly, those examples that RA gave of Terrans pushing to graduate while alive, like the Great Khan, didn't work with the Dracos, but worked directly with the Orions, bypassing the bottleneck. How many potential STSers know enough, learn enough to do that? The psychopathic virus would seem to fit the need to shorten the life cycle and increase or speed up the experiential potential of each incarnation... for both sides, as RA mentioned how few were reaching graduation potential beforehand... even bringing the Kantekkians here would fit this need to 'force' things more, to increase the catalyst of negative emotions. Obviously, the result of bringing such a warlike tribe to a presumably peaceful planet would increase the friction of any kind of relationship, especially once those peoples spread out and infiltrated the planet... add a few STS adjustments among select tribal elements elsewhere and the pattern would be set... then add the psycho virus to the mix and the negative potential would seem to go parabolic, sort of like how the financial cycle of 'boom/bust' that used to be generational, keeps shrinking to 8 years now. It's getting harder and harder for anyone with any potential for self-awareness to not see the obvious 'past' as present when the cycles occur this fast. Until recently with Putin's Russian reassertion of its rights and choices, at home and abroad, it seems the Western empire has been like a rich kid in a candy store, one the kid owns or thinks it does, so anything goes... when there is no opposition, no parent telling it 'NO!'... no friction, so I wonder how much of this is for the STSers themselves, 3d and 4d?

If one isn't picking up any of this catalyst these days, then they essentially have their heads in the sand and little can be expected of them individually, but only enmasse by a global 'homeopathic dose', one they don't choose to take, but is given to them by default... an overall change in the matrix. A change in resonance by initial disruption... the renegade units as those Pleidians called us. Agents of Chaos infiltrating and disrupting the system. as anyone merely telling the truth must always be seen as a threat to the system here in Purgatory, thus the threat of a 'war' of a different kind, sort of a reverse viral disorder as seen from the STS perspective.... mirroring tactics or so it seems.

 

[Zar]

The entire post by Laura is worth reading, but it got me thinking about negative emotions and their usefulness, or even requirement, in esoteric work. In the above quote M. refers to negative emotions on a social or global scale creating wars and then leading to an increased output of human activity in all spheres and that this is one positive outcome of negative emotions. I'm not too sure about that idea given what we know about psychopathy, but the idea might have merit in a different sense.

Just before the above quote in that post by Laura M. says...

Anyway, just thought it was interesting how this idea of negative emotions and their use by the individual to further him/her in the Work can apply microscopically. "As above so below".

Very interesting thought process Joe, in laura's post she writes "You may also understand why Gurdjieff did some of the truly outrageous things he did that engendered such hostility and attack. He KNEW what he was doing". It made me wonder if the macroscopic human consciousness also knows what it is doing by engaging in such negativity in this physical 3D world, since we are all one and "as above so below".

 

[Mal7]

Anyway, just thought it was interesting how this idea of negative emotions and their use by the individual to further him/her in the Work can apply microscopically. "As above so below".

Should the word "microscopically" be instead "macroscopically"? (Individual level - micro; populations, countries, world level - macro.) Anyway, I think I get the idea. . . different levels relate to each other. Macro level events may cause negative emotions at the micro level, and how the individual processes these negative emotions on the micro level may itself have outcomes at the macro level.

 

[luc]

The widespread global suffering that is probably coming down the pipeline will likely have this effect on humanity, a shock to the entire world - "awakening alarms" - forcing people to act. Of course, the core and vital question is how people will act. How they will act will depend on their understanding of the "alarms" and what they mean. Throw in the idea of small groups of people disseminating a truth signal to the world acting like "homeopathic dose" that can, by resonance, influence the entire world, and we have an idea of why and how the work we're doing here, to help people understand and prepare, may be vitally important.

Anyway, just thought it was interesting how this idea of negative emotions and their use by the individual to further him/her in the Work can apply microscopically. "As above so below".

I think so too - on a personal level, these negative experiences help us grow, for example I had been in the grip of a psychopath for many years and the struggle to understand this and free myself still helps me on many levels to overcome automatic reactions. At the time I was basically confronted with the choice "change or perish", which led me to action. It was probably the first time in my life that I really DID something.

I guess the same is true for the macro-level: being confronted with the horror of global suffering, which more and more transforms to individual suffering as well even for people in the West, kind of brings about hard decisions and realizations. The truth signal being sent by this group then is ready for these people - not only the daily sott articles, but also the enormous body of work here in general.

BTW, Gurdjieff also talked about the necessity of this "negative background" that opens the possibility for individual advancement:

"But, at the same time, possibilities of evolution exist, and they may be developed in separate individuals with the help of appropriate knowledge and methods. Such development can take place only in the interests of the man himself against, so to speak, the interests and forces of the planetary world. The man must understand this: his evolution is necessary only to himself. No one else is interested in it. And no one is obliged or intends to help him. On the contrary, the forces which oppose the evolution of large masses of humanity also oppose the evolution of individual men. A man must outwit them. And one man can outwit them, humanity cannot. You will understand later on that all these obstacles are very useful to a man; if they did not exist they would have to be created intentionally, because it is by overcoming obstacles that man develops those qualities he needs.

 

[Konstantin]

I think i understand the importance of this negative emotions. If someone for example have never experienced negative emotions then that person will stay where he is. In that positive state or in a state with maybe not positive but state with no negative emotions. In that state human will become inert, he will not show any will to change himself, to work on himself, to act.
On the contrary , when he can experience the negative emotions , man feel uncomfortable in that situation , in that state and those negative emotions will make him to do something, to act in order to change that unpleasant situation.
At the end if he acts and if he changes himself , or if he have a new insight about reasons for those negative emotions in first place, after the situations and emotions are changed , maybe he will learn from that and will not make the same mistake again.
So the purpose of that negative emotions are to push us forward to act, to do, to learn and to utilize the learned material as knowledge, to improve the situation or the state where he experienced that negative emotions.

That is how i understand it.

 

[Carl]

I was thinking about what you posted while going to sleep last night. It's been bothering me lately. I used to want to change the world, and then after learning everything I have learned from you guys, I've seen that it is impossible. But then what should the goal be? The world doesn't want to change right now, and the lack of immediate results from any efforts can be disheartening when you do not have perspective.

Now when I see more and more of the horror in the world, when I see what humans (and psychos) do to each other, I just want out. I can accept it for what it is, and accept that I cannot change it and cannot change anyone. What I still don't fully understand is why we have to be here and participate. I mean, if you lived in a house with a bunch of people who were hateful and aggressive, occasionally cut each other's limbs off, and all followed the rule of one big bad boss who intimidated them and divided them to fight among one another, you would leave right? You would just walk away and find somewhere else to live.
But when it comes to our existence on Earth, we cant just leave. Even if we violently check ourselves out, we just re-spawn, probably in an even worse state!

The way you put it here really clicked with me. If we have any faith in the universe, then we can accept that we are "trapped" here for a reason. We can't change it right now, and we can't leave. So what to make of it? Well, this is a perfect goal to have - to just be a homoeopathic agent for change, for if the world ever wants it. To try and stay as clean as possible, learn some lessons, and help other people learn theirs by helping spread a signal of truth. It is not grandiose or self serving or easily corruptible - it is something humble and real that I can actually feel.

 

[Ca.]

I think i understand the importance of this negative emotions. If someone for example have never experienced negative emotions then that person will stay where he is. In that positive state or in a state with maybe not positive but state with no negative emotions. In that state human will become inert, he will not show any will to change himself, to work on himself, to act.
On the contrary , when he can experience the negative emotions , man feel uncomfortable in that situation , in that state and those negative emotions will make him to do something, to act in order to change that unpleasant situation.
At the end if he acts and if he changes himself , or if he have a new insight about reasons for those negative emotions in first place, after the situations and emotions are changed , maybe he will learn from that and will not make the same mistake again.
So the purpose of that negative emotions are to push us forward to act, to do, to learn and to utilize the learned material as knowledge, to improve the situation or the state where he experienced that negative emotions.
That is how i understand it.

Just had a chance to listen to the Health and Wellness show last night. I highly recommended giving it a listen.

It reflects your post (with this tread) with the positive effects of going through our personal tribunals and how we can persevere.

Thanks radio crew's with sharing our option's with grounding against the chaos.

Health & Wellness Show - Feb 5, 2016 - Depression and the Insanity of the World
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/sottradionetwork/2016/02/05/health-wellness-show--feb-5-2016--depression-and-the-insanity-of-the-world

Also An excellent follow up, (integrating) of maintaining the Light.

The Truth Perspective - Finding Inspiration in a World Growing Dark 6 Feb 2016
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/sottradionetwork/2016/02/06/the-truth-perspective--finding-inspiration-in-a-world-growing-dark-6-feb-2016

 

[SeekinTruth]

Interesting thoughts, y'all. I agree. We can only spread a truth signal to the best of our ability and not have any anticipation of the outcome. Just keep observing the local and global environment for signs of things changing and maybe adjust our approach a bit if need be. Rereading the quote by luc from ISOTM, reminded me also of Castaneda's Don Juan saying if there were no "worthy" Petty Tyrants, a warrior would have to go find one.

We should also keep in mind that we don't fully know what the outcome "should be" so to speak. It seems to me that the whole of humanity can't be "saved" - we just have to do what's in us to do for those who can benefit. Then the planet may also be balanced for others to go through/repeat these lessons in future incarnations, rather than having a totally locked down and dominated world where the incarnation process would not be meaningful for many who don't need that particular kind of lesson. Or so I think.

 

[Joe]

Without the spur of psychopathy we humans may never reach our potential. Of course that is the sts hope/plan but as we know they are the kings of wishful thinking. Just a thought in passing.

Very important to remember I think Michael. Psychopaths provide the suffering, which leads to growth in awareness, understanding and perception, to the point that those three break the limited confines of what we have, until now, understood to be "reality". Or at least that's the idea. We shall See!

 

[T.C.]

The widespread global suffering that is probably coming down the pipeline will likely have this effect on humanity, a shock to the entire world - "awakening alarms" - forcing people to act. Of course, the core and vital question is how people will act. How they will act will depend on their understanding of the "alarms" and what they mean.

Thinking about it in a purely linear way, I think the different sections of the brain apply. They'll either freeze (reptilian), fight/run (limbic), or choose to act based on thinking about what they see (neocortex). And which of those applies to a person I think depends on which part they mostly live their life in and exercise at this moment, right now.

Throw in the idea of small groups of people disseminating a truth signal to the world acting like "homeopathic dose" that can, by resonance, influence the entire world, and we have an idea of why and how the work we're doing here, to help people understand and prepare, may be vitally important.

I think the "by resonance" part is the most important. Those who might be helped by the actions of this group are probably the ones who are already trying to think about everything, rather than just going about their days/lives primitively integrated and automatically reacting to things and believing the ideas of the status quo.

But as I said, that's all just a linear way of looking at it. 'Butterfly wings' can change things in radical ways!

On the subject of negative emotions in general, I think the first lesson that they teach us is that they actually exist in the first place, as most people in the West spend their whole lives finding ways to make them disappear, not acknowledge them. That's the whole reason everyone's asleep, right? They bury their heads in the sand because the truth hurts.

I was thinking about what you posted while going to sleep last night. It's been bothering me lately. I used to want to change the world, and then after learning everything I have learned from you guys, I've seen that it is impossible. But then what should the goal be? The world doesn't want to change right now, and the lack of immediate results from any efforts can be disheartening when you do not have perspective.

My current working hypothesis is that wherever we find ourselves right now in life, the day to day situations are nature's way of literally telling us, not what the goal should be, but what our goal should be. Like in the above Gurdjieff quote: "Such development can take place only in the interests of the man himself against, so to speak, the interests and forces of the planetary world. The man must understand this: his evolution is necessary only to himself." And part of my hypothesis includes the idea that if I was supposed to be able to influence wider events in a grand and obvious way, then I'd be in Putin's shoes - but I don't have that capacity or level of knowledge or expertise to act, so the Universe doesn't put me in that position. I can influence the things in my domain, but I just need to be aware and openly and actively listening to what the Universe is asking me and telling me through my interaction with it in case it offers me an opportunity to climb another step up and do more.

Now when I see more and more of the horror in the world, when I see what humans (and psychos) do to each other, I just want out.

I'm with you on that one! It's a funny loop, though: if things weren't so bad, we wouldn't want out; and I guess if you can see that, that itself could imply a meaning to suffering - the reason for it. I guess that's like anything in life - you find yourself in a harmful scenario - a job, a spouse, a parent - and you think and learn and apply and gain the skills necessary to make choices and improve things for yourself, which then also gives you greater capacity for helping others, the ability to pass on the knowledge, etc.

I can accept it for what it is, and accept that I cannot change it and cannot change anyone. What I still don't fully understand is why we have to be here and participate. I mean, if you lived in a house with a bunch of people who were hateful and aggressive, occasionally cut each other's limbs off, and all followed the rule of one big bad boss who intimidated them and divided them to fight among one another, you would leave right? You would just walk away and find somewhere else to live.
But when it comes to our existence on Earth, we cant just leave. Even if we violently check ourselves out, we just re-spawn, probably in an even worse state!

It does nothing for the emotional aspect of this question, but the C's answer is we collectively chose it to speed up the learning cycle. al Arabi (or Chittick) said, "Man must face a predicament as real as himself".

So, yeah, we're stuck here to learn the lessons, and in regards to that, I always feel slightly aggrieved by the fact that even when we've learned them, the Universe still throws the same lessons at us to ask us, "Are you sure you've learned that one?" (because there have been times where the answer for me has been "Hell no! Hit me, dealer." )

Like Laura say's in a C's session, (paraphrasing) "If you see all the problems and you know you don't want to be here any more, why can't you just leave? If you've already read the script, you don't need to watch the movie." And the C's replied, "But then you'd miss out on the experience".

The way you put it here really clicked with me. If we have any faith in the universe, then we can accept that we are "trapped" here for a reason. We can't change it right now, and we can't leave. So what to make of it? Well, this is a perfect goal to have - to just be a homoeopathic agent for change, for if the world ever wants it. To try and stay as clean as possible, learn some lessons, and help other people learn theirs by helping spread a signal of truth. It is not grandiose or self serving or easily corruptible - it is something humble and real that I can actually feel.

Well said

 

[Joe]

Anyway, just thought it was interesting how this idea of negative emotions and their use by the individual to further him/her in the Work can apply microscopically. "As above so below".

Should the word "microscopically" be instead "macroscopically"? (Individual level - micro; populations, countries, world level - macro.) Anyway, I think I get the idea. . . different levels relate to each other. Macro level events may cause negative emotions at the micro level, and how the individual processes these negative emotions on the micro level may itself have outcomes at the macro level.

Yep! Fixed. thanks. And yes, micro and macro levels probably influence each other, but I was pointing out the fact that what applies at the "micro" level of negative emotions in humans providing an opportunity for growth in awareness of the individual, also operates in exactly the same way with humanity collectively and its collective awareness. I think this idea is everywhere in the universe: replicating dynamics at many different levels, like the way fractals represent.

 

[Joe]

Now when I see more and more of the horror in the world, when I see what humans (and psychos) do to each other, I just want out. I can accept it for what it is, and accept that I cannot change it and cannot change anyone. What I still don't fully understand is why we have to be here and participate. I mean, if you lived in a house with a bunch of people who were hateful and aggressive, occasionally cut each other's limbs off, and all followed the rule of one big bad boss who intimidated them and divided them to fight among one another, you would leave right? You would just walk away and find somewhere else to live.
But when it comes to our existence on Earth, we cant just leave. Even if we violently check ourselves out, we just re-spawn, probably in an even worse state!

The way you put it here really clicked with me. If we have any faith in the universe, then we can accept that we are "trapped" here for a reason. We can't change it right now, and we can't leave. So what to make of it? Well, this is a perfect goal to have - to just be a homoeopathic agent for change, for if the world ever wants it. To try and stay as clean as possible, learn some lessons, and help other people learn theirs by helping spread a signal of truth. It is not grandiose or self serving or easily corruptible - it is something humble and real that I can actually feel.

I think you nailed it here Carl, and another aspect is that the process of being disgusted with the world and those that run it is the process by which we see the extent to which we have been 'infected' by aspects of the ponerization of this world and make efforts to 'cleanse' ourselves. So in that respect too, this world is a perfect 'training ground' to figure out who we are and what we want to be.