Negative emotions on a global scale

[obyvatel]

I think you nailed it here Carl, and another aspect is that the process of being disgusted with the world and those that run it is the process by which we see the extent to which we have been 'infected' by aspects of the ponerization of this world and make efforts to 'cleanse' ourselves. So in that respect too, this world is a perfect 'training ground' to figure out who we are and what we want to be.

Homeopathy uses the principle "like cures like" (similia similibus curs the). Traditional homeopathic remedies work by introducing micro doses of a harmful/poisonous substance which produce similar symptoms as what is ailing the person. This microdose is supposed to induce the body to produce a vital response that fights and cures the ailment.

So the homeopathic analogy is applicable to the above. Living in a society like ours we are bound to infected by pathological view points. Once we see it clearly in ourselves, we can consciously struggle against it in ourselves and perhaps inspire a few others to do so as well. So if the bigger planetary whole/body seeks a homeopathic remedy for an "alien" disease, those infected by the ailment to a small degree and able to struggle against it within themselves may be able to produce a local healing response which has the potential of spreading.

And this is not something that is new. There have been people of wisdom in different eras in different places who have stressed on the importance of work on the self as a precursor to any possible and beneficial social change. Efforts to change society have yielded little positive results and often made things worse. That may be the reason why in the Gurdjieffian system, service stands at the apex rather than the base.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

I think i understand the importance of this negative emotions. If someone for example have never experienced negative emotions then that person will stay where he is. In that positive state or in a state with maybe not positive but state with no negative emotions. In that state human will become inert, he will not show any will to change himself, to work on himself, to act.

I think that's a good way of looking at it. I tried to describe it on the last Truth Perspective show. Just like a picture needs contrast in order to be visible and distinguishable (light, dark, shadow, which allow form and depth to be apparent), the positive needs the negative. If everything was good and pleasant all the time, there would be no standard by which to judge it. It would all be the same: boring, undifferentiated, stale. But negative emotions provide the contrast and context that make positive emotions effective.

If it weren't for all the cowardice, ignorance, stupidity, violence, and injustice in the world, I don't think I would have any real appreciation for the examples of courage, learning, wisdom, compassion and justice. And I think we've all experienced this, seeing a small example of human compassion that moves us to tears. It reinforces what is really important. It solidifies values. It provides inspiration, and a measure by which to judge and direct our own future actions.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

I was thinking about what you posted while going to sleep last night. It's been bothering me lately. I used to want to change the world, and then after learning everything I have learned from you guys, I've seen that it is impossible. But then what should the goal be? The world doesn't want to change right now, and the lack of immediate results from any efforts can be disheartening when you do not have perspective.

My current working hypothesis is that wherever we find ourselves right now in life, the day to day situations are nature's way of literally telling us, not what the goal should be, but what our goal should be. Like in the above Gurdjieff quote: "Such development can take place only in the interests of the man himself against, so to speak, the interests and forces of the planetary world. The man must understand this: his evolution is necessary only to himself." And part of my hypothesis includes the idea that if I was supposed to be able to influence wider events in a grand and obvious way, then I'd be in Putin's shoes - but I don't have that capacity or level of knowledge or expertise to act, so the Universe doesn't put me in that position. I can influence the things in my domain, but I just need to be aware and openly and actively listening to what the Universe is asking me and telling me through my interaction with it in case it offers me an opportunity to climb another step up and do more.

Well put, TC. Yes we can't change the world. But what does that mean? Is change impossible I don't think so. Part of the 'rules' of existence is that change is not only possible, it is a divine imperative! The question is, what precisely is subject to change, and what is not? I think many of us have had similar thoughts as Carl: wanting to change the world, wanting to change other people. But during those times, we rarely realize that such things are futile. We would do better to change ourselves. And that IS possible.

The way you put it here really clicked with me. If we have any faith in the universe, then we can accept that we are "trapped" here for a reason. We can't change it right now, and we can't leave. So what to make of it? Well, this is a perfect goal to have - to just be a homoeopathic agent for change, for if the world ever wants it. To try and stay as clean as possible, learn some lessons, and help other people learn theirs by helping spread a signal of truth. It is not grandiose or self serving or easily corruptible - it is something humble and real that I can actually feel.

Well said

Seconded! I think the world desperately needs to change. It's not necessarily that the cosmos as a whole is invested in our tiny planet. It's simply a matter of "if/then" scenarios. If we continue down the path we're headed, our 'branch' of creation will be pruned. For this not to happen, the planet needs agents of change who don't focus directly on changing the world (its institutions, specific individuals, etc.), but on themselves. By doing so they not only become examples for others searching for the same thing, but act as the resonance Joe mentioned.

Just look at Laura, this forum, and the members of this forum. I see individuals whose lives have changed remarkably, who are sources of great positivity. Role models, sources of inspiration, and all the things that inspire that feeling of coming into contact with something truly GOOD. And as small as that may be in the grand scheme of things, I think it may have more significance than we give it credit. It is the point of light a star makes in a sea of blackness.

 

[Windmill knight]

I was thinking about what you posted while going to sleep last night. It's been bothering me lately. I used to want to change the world, and then after learning everything I have learned from you guys, I've seen that it is impossible. But then what should the goal be? The world doesn't want to change right now, and the lack of immediate results from any efforts can be disheartening when you do not have perspective.

Now when I see more and more of the horror in the world, when I see what humans (and psychos) do to each other, I just want out. I can accept it for what it is, and accept that I cannot change it and cannot change anyone. What I still don't fully understand is why we have to be here and participate. I mean, if you lived in a house with a bunch of people who were hateful and aggressive, occasionally cut each other's limbs off, and all followed the rule of one big bad boss who intimidated them and divided them to fight among one another, you would leave right? You would just walk away and find somewhere else to live.
But when it comes to our existence on Earth, we cant just leave. Even if we violently check ourselves out, we just re-spawn, probably in an even worse state!

The way you put it here really clicked with me. If we have any faith in the universe, then we can accept that we are "trapped" here for a reason. We can't change it right now, and we can't leave. So what to make of it? Well, this is a perfect goal to have - to just be a homoeopathic agent for change, for if the world ever wants it. To try and stay as clean as possible, learn some lessons, and help other people learn theirs by helping spread a signal of truth. It is not grandiose or self serving or easily corruptible - it is something humble and real that I can actually feel.

My personal view is that whatever change we make, it will be for future generations to enjoy. So in our lifetimes we may only get to see the world getting worse and worse, while just a very small group of people do a bit better, because they have learned a few things about themselves, human relations, the world at large, health, etc. I think of small groups of people throughout history, or even single individuals, who later became super influential in their fields, but who weren't quite appreciated during their lives, and I hope we can be like them.

Regarding why we are here if we don't like to live among psychos, I try to see it from the point of view of a Cosmic Mind, and what I see is a place with almost unlimited potential, which happens to have manifested in many evil ways, but which does not have to be like that, so people trying to be different fit in there too. Also, for that Cosmic Mind, places where the interaction of opposites takes place create a lot of interesting situations, and since the Universe was 'created' so that the Cosmic Mind could get to know itself in all its different aspects and potentials, then interesting situations are a plus. If you had planets with only psychos you would probably want to change channels and watch something else, which in this case might translate into the destruction of such planet. In other words, even if we don't like to live in psycholand, we are as much an integral part of this party as the psychos themselves. And yes, if we don't do our part to balance things out, we may get the 'cosmic changing channels' treatment.

 

[Shared Joy]

......
Regarding why we are here if we don't like to live among psychos, I try to see it from the point of view of a Cosmic Mind, and what I see is a place with almost unlimited potential, which happens to have manifested in many evil ways, but which does not have to be like that, so people trying to be different fit in there too. Also, for that Cosmic Mind, places where the interaction of opposites takes place create a lot of interesting situations, and since the Universe was 'created' so that the Cosmic Mind could get to know itself in all its different aspects and potentials, then interesting situations are a plus. If you had planets with only psychos you would probably want to change channels and watch something else, which in this case might translate into the destruction of such planet. In other words, even if we don't like to live in psycholand, we are as much an integral part of this party as the psychos themselves. And yes, if we don't do our part to balance things out, we may get the 'cosmic changing channels' treatment.

Hi Windmill King, Carl

There are many ways the Tao te Ching was interpreted, maybe this one I quoted is not the best, however therein lies explanation for many phenomena occurred during the ages - now I picked this part to show that in times of apparent futility, chaos and loss of values, the forces of light are still present and depends on each of us to make them manifest, as the Tao (or DCM) is impersonal and doesn't take sides - therefore is the "only goodness". That's why the C's said that our mental/emotional attitude is "subjective" - not that is anything wrong with it , but we just can't get the big picture yet.

source _http://enlight.lib.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-AN/an142304.pdf

41. SAMENESS AND DIFFERENCE
On hearing of the Tao,
the wise student's practice is with diligence;
the average student attends to his practice
when his memory reminds him so to do;
and the foolish student laughs.
But we do well to remember
that with no sudden laughter,
there would be no natural way.
Thus it is said,
"There are times when even brightness seems dim;
when progress seems like regression;
when the easy seems most difficult,
and virtue seems empty, inadequate and frail;
times when purity seems sullied;
when even reality seems unreal,
and when a square seems to have corners;
when even great talent is of no avail,
and the highest note cannot be heard;
when the formed seems formless,
and when the way of nature is out of sight".
Even in such times as these,
the natural way still nourishes,
that all things may be fulfilled.

51. THE NOURISHMENT OF THE TAO
All physical things arise
from the principle which is absolute;
the principle which is the natural way.
All living things are formed by being,
and shaped by their environment, (epigenetics!!!)
growing if nourished well by virtue;
the being from non-being.
All natural things respect the Tao,
giving honour to its virtue,
although the Tao does not expect,
nor look for honour or respect.
The virtue of the natural way
is that all things are born of it;
it nourishes and comforts them;
develops, shelters and cares for them,
protecting them from harm.
The Tao creates, not claiming credit,
and guides without interfering.

These are some of the reasons why our world suffer:

57. SIMPLIFICATION
With natural justice, people must be ruled,
and if war be waged, strategy and tactics used.
To master one's self,
one must act without cunning.
The greater the number of laws and restrictions,
the poorer the people who inhabit the land.
The sharper the weapons of battle and war,
the greater the troubles besetting the land.
The greater the cunning with which people are ruled,
the stranger the things which occur in the land.
The harder the rules and regulations,
the greater the number of those who will steal.
The sage therefore does not contrive,
in order to bring about reform,
but teaches the people peace of mind,
in order that they might enjoy their lives.
Having no desires, all he does is natural.
Since he teaches self-sufficiency,
the people who follow him return
to a good, uncomplicated life.

Well, anytime i feel low I reach for my old copy of the Tao ( I just couldn't find the source of that one anymore) and take a sip of this alive water of wisdom.
FWIW

[Mod: fixed quotes]

 

[Cosmos]

Well, when we look at history, I think the following video explains well, why sexuality or rather how it is actually approached and handled by a civilization, can explain why (in large parts I'm afraid), the western world at least, is headed in the way it is heading:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uHuFYYO4go

Maybe a large part of the puzzle on how "negative" emotions can bring down a civilization, might indeed be that key subject, since a big part of any given civilisation has probably a higher seed in them, for which to grow, this subject needs to be handled rightly, otherwise distruction is attracted. It is surely no coincidence that almost all great teachings emphasize that the recognition, control and channelling of this strongest mechanical drive, is one of the key subjects that helps people and groups to better master themselves and thus be able to be of better service to others.

If that is the case, one would assume that this subject is indeed one of the key subjects that needs to recognized, addressed and channeled in the right way, by those people who want to be of better service to others?

A very important and great read about the subjected is the book "Cupid's Poisoned Arrow" discussed here: https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=21030.0

 

[Keyhole]

The entire post by Laura is worth reading, but it got me thinking about negative emotions and their usefulness, or even requirement, in esoteric work. In the above quote M. refers to negative emotions on a social or global scale creating wars and then leading to an increased output of human activity in all spheres and that this is one positive outcome of negative emotions. I'm not too sure about that idea given what we know about psychopathy, but the idea might have merit in a different sense.

Just before the above quote in that post by Laura M. says

the positive effects of negative emotions lies in the fact that they serve as awakening alarms. Their dynamism communicates impulses to the individual which force him to act.

The widespread global suffering that is probably coming down the pipeline will likely have this effect on humanity, a shock to the entire world - "awakening alarms" - forcing people to act. Of course, the core and vital question is how people will act. How they will act will depend on their understanding of the "alarms" and what they mean. Throw in the idea of small groups of people disseminating a truth signal to the world acting like "homeopathic dose" that can, by resonance, influence the entire world, and we have an idea of why and how the work we're doing here, to help people understand and prepare, may be vitally important.

Anyway, just thought it was interesting how this idea of negative emotions and their use by the individual to further him/her in the Work can apply macroscopically. "As above so below".

Considering "As above so below", I have been thinking about how this concept of utilizing negative emotions may apply microscopically to an organism at the biochemical level. Toxicologists/Biochemists are familiar with a similar concept of utilizing environmental toxins/stressors in small amounts to increase longevity and overal health, and understand this process as a biological fact. It is called Hormesis.

The term hormesis has been most widely used in the toxicology field where investigators use it to describe a biphasic dose response with a low dose stimulation or beneficial effect and a high dose inhibitory or toxic effect. The response of the cell or organism to the low dose of the toxin is considered an adaptive compensatory process following an initial disruption in homeostasis. Thus, a short working definition of hormesis is: ‘a process in which exposure to a low dose of a chemical agent or environmental factor that is damaging at higher doses induces an adaptive beneficial effect on the cell or organism’.
[..]

While hormesis is most often thought of in the context of exposures to exogenous agents or environmental conditions, it should also be recognized that hormesis is integral to the normal physiological function of cells and organisms. For example, exposure of neurons to the excitatory neurotransmitter glutamate during their normal activity results in energetic and oxidative stress accompanied by activation of hormetic pathways that help the neurons cope with more severe stress; however, excessive activation of glutamate receptors can kill neurons in a process called excitotoxicity (Mattson, 2003)... Hormesis is a fundamental concept in evolutionary theory. From the beginning through the present time, life on earth has existed in harsh environments in which cells are often exposed to free radicals and toxic substances. To avoid extinction organisms have developed complex mechanisms to cope with the environmental hazards.

So on a cellular level, for an organism to build up it's defenses which enable it to deal with more severe stress in the future, it relies on those external stressors and low dose toxins. In RESPONSE to environmental stressors, hormetic pathways are activated which increase immune function and overall health of the cell. This is the positive effect of negative/toxic elements the organism encounters. So we could go further and theorize that these toxins are actually a requirement for an organism to evolve into something more functional and whole. Notice that hormetic effects occur in the presence of a low dose, not a high/chronic dose.

So on a higher scale, perhaps the process of Hormesis is similar what is discussed in this thread. The process of utilizing negative emotions (toxic stressors) in order to achieve an overall higher level of functionality and Being. Negative emotions act as shocks, they are what drive us to make changes in our lives and inspire us to Act differently than before, to "be the change we would like to see in the world". In a similar way, toxins/external stressors also act as shocks- they force the cells in our bodies to behave differently, to DO things that have not been done before, and in this sense to EVOLVE into something better.

Therefore what we know as "evolution" seems to be dependent on "negative" external influences and manifests like this on the cellular level - and if we are to apply "as above, so below" - then it would make sense that similar processes would occur on all scales and manifest psychologically/emotionally on an individual level and also on a collective level.

This reminds me of short-wave and long-wave cycles:

Present mankind takes part in the short wave cycle mode. This involves a duality of experience, including being 'food for the moon' but has the advantage of catalyzing more rapid development.

Considering Hormesis, it appears that it is only through interaction with the "negative" aspects of creation (in a duality) that we can actually evolve rapidly and choose polarity. Maybe if this were not the case then we still would evolve, but it would simply take much longer (as described in the long-wave cycle). Just some thoughts.

 

[Michael B-C]

Thank you for posting that information Keyhole. Very interesting. 'That which does not kill you makes you stronger' would be a simple, commonly known understanding of this. Its the 'kill' you bit of negative emotions that I think is the real problem. But as TC mentioned earlier in the thread

Thinking about it in a purely linear way, I think the different sections of the brain apply. They'll either freeze (reptilian), fight/run (limbic), or choose to act based on thinking about what they see (neocortex). And which of those applies to a person I think depends on which part they mostly live their life in and exercise at this moment, right now.

For most people who have not yet raised their knowledge base via their neocortex, the ability to be aware of the context around the negative emotion is severely hampered, particularly when you see that the grip Cognitive Dissonance has on the vast majority of people is so great. As was said, the truth bellowing in the ear of the bewildered sufferer literally hurts - and I think that the combination of that hurt (which is not let in and acknowledged because, well it hurts! and world views would have to crumble, which cannot happen when survival is made to feel as being at stake) plus the reptilian and limbic systems going into overdrive, means that most negatively based learning opportunities are stubbornly ignored and instead become the source of further degeneration of consciousness via self pity and repeating loops. Which brings us back to the view expressed by Gurdjieff that only a few are meant to evolve not the many. That the 3rd density sts system we live in has fail safe mechanisms in place that simply wont allow a mass movement of consciousness to take hold without a breaking of the matrix structure by natural forces in such a way that the board is permanently changed. In this sense the Ying and Yang symbol is perfectly correct - that only a small spot of white can ever exist in the dark side, much as a small black spot can only abide in the white (brings to mind the ineffective nature of 6th density sts as being only existing for balance and as a non active from).

 

[Joe]

Interesting keyhole. So we have toxins on a human micro level that "shock" and prompt the body to create to grow stronger and evolve, we have negative emotions on the human conscious awareness level doing the same thing (shock, grow and evolve) and we have large scale earth changes that shock the entire "body" of the human race into reacting and, possibly, evolving. Of course, at each level some form of choice is required, and it seems that consciousness or awareness is the factor that determines what choice or reaction will be taken.

 

[luc]

Interesting keyhole. So we have toxins on a human micro level that "shock" and prompt the body to create to grow stronger and evolve, we have negative emotions on the human conscious awareness level doing the same thing (shock, grow and evolve) and we have large scale earth changes that shock the entire "body" of the human race into reacting and, possibly, evolving. Of course, at each level some form of choice is required, and it seems that consciousness or awareness is the factor that determines what choice or reaction will be taken.

About the macro level, the other day I noticed some intelligent discussion in the comment section of some news site, and I thought that this "learning from the earth changes" could be some kind of "learning by osmosis", which is kind of an undefined and often ridiculed term.

Osmosis means the movement of a solvent across a semipermeable membrane toward a higher concentration of solute (wiki). So learning by osmosis could mean something like learning by differences in pressure levels - for example, you have a high pressure on one end (world) and a low pressure on the other end (individual), and between them is a membrane (our perceptions/decisions). The resulting pressure on the individual then must be equalized in some way. It can then manifest for example as conscious suffering and new knowledge (decision A) or just unconscious suffering/reaction (decision B).

One guy at yahoo wrote about "learning by Osmosis" as follows:

People learn by all sorts of methods - traditional school rooms, rote memorization, teaching, and watching/listening. The latter is the closest to learning by osmosis as you are absorbing what life offers you.

So in the example with the comments section, the process could be something like this: because of the mayhem in the world and the lies of the media that become more and more obvious (macro level), people feel the pressure and then see no other choice than speaking out against it (micro level), something they may have never done before. Then they start ranting on the internet, but make the experience that this leads nowhere and only fuels the trolls and pushes people's buttons. Then, they change their approach and consider where other people are coming from, and act more carefully. And bingo - they have learned something about external consideration/strategic enclosure, without knowing about these concepts. So that would be one example of how the cosmos infuses information into our system by creating mayhem :)

Oh my, hope this makes sense. FWIW

 

[Michael B-C]

I think very good sense luc! Thank you. :)

 

[Michael B-C]

Osmosis means the movement of a solvent across a semipermeable membrane toward a higher concentration of solute (wiki). So learning by osmosis could mean something like learning by differences in pressure levels - for example, you have a high pressure on one end (world) and a low pressure on the other end (individual), and between them is a membrane (our perceptions/decisions). The resulting pressure on the individual then must be equalized in some way. It can then manifest for example as conscious suffering and new knowledge (decision A) or just unconscious suffering/reaction (decision B).

This made me wonder about sinkholes and the current upsurge in numbers and scale as shown in the recent Sott video. The possible scientific mechanism was very clearly conveyed in the piece but on a symbolic level could they be a sign of this build up of difference in pressure levels of consciousness and the global population's reaction to negative emotions? The equalization you mention between the message being received from the cosmos and the failure to deal with it by individual leading to increased sinkholes. :/

 

[Agharta]

Im not part of negative emotions, thats my creation. Even if it exists and i dont deny it, im just not part of it :)

 

[Voyageur]

Osmosis means the movement of a solvent across a semipermeable membrane toward a higher concentration of solute (wiki). So learning by osmosis could mean something like learning by differences in pressure levels - for example, you have a high pressure on one end (world) and a low pressure on the other end (individual), and between them is a membrane (our perceptions/decisions). The resulting pressure on the individual then must be equalized in some way. It can then manifest for example as conscious suffering and new knowledge (decision A) or just unconscious suffering/reaction (decision B).

This made me wonder about sinkholes and the current upsurge in numbers and scale as shown in the recent Sott video. The possible scientific mechanism was very clearly conveyed in the piece but on a symbolic level could they be a sign of this build up of difference in pressure levels of consciousness and the global population's reaction to negative emotions? The equalization you mention between the message being received from the cosmos and the failure to deal with it by individual leading to increased sinkholes. :/

In the sinkhole video, I could not help to sense the human real and symbolic relationship to this opening up; well explained in Pierre's book and discussed in places in the transcript sessions. In what is taking place around us (above and below), it seems like a mirror of the pressures that are presently out of balance in humanity. And yet, some are learning to regulate them in themselves, to truly see despair in the world and those that have inflicted it; which results in sharing, learning - through "osmosis" and a renewed faith that abatement of the pressures is a possibility. So what you said concerning equalization, and the above by Michael on osmosis, are important to balancing, and we've a ways to go.

 

[Laura]

Im not part of negative emotions, thats my creation. Even if it exists and i dont deny it, im just not part of it :)

Then you are abdicating your purpose in the reality and will probably never grow or advance.