Negative emotions on a global scale

[Joe]

Im not part of negative emotions, thats my creation. Even if it exists and i dont deny it, im just not part of it :)

Despite those titles, power, and pelf,
The wretch, concentred all in self,
Living, shall forfeit fair renown,
And, doubly dying, shall go down
To the vile dust, from whence he sprung,
Unwept, unhonor'd, and unsung

Ok. So if i understand, im a miserable person, with a dead soul? Im not sure if im right cause i didnt know about this text and author but it sounds interesting. Maybe u can explain more to me cause im here to learm.

It wasn't my intention to imply anything about you, just about what you wrote, which seemed to be saying that you rejected negative emotions.

Negative emotions are a part of life, and very important to any kind of spiritual growth because of the introspection and struggle they provoke. It is through that struggle that we progress in a spiritual sense.

So rejecting negative emotions as "not spiritual" is missing a big part of the process, and to be honest seems rather selfish to be honest. In addition, with the state of the world, it seems impossible not to feel some kind of negative emotion in response to the suffering of so many people. So you also seemed to be rejecting any empathy for others, with empathy being a vital part of spiritual progress.

A person who focuses only on what they like (positive emotions) and shuts out the rest of the world in favor of maintaining that self-satisfied state of immunity to the more difficult aspects of life, seems to be saying that they don't really want to engage with life, and therefore don't want to engage with the process of real human evolution, which involves learning about ALL aspects of life, good and bad, and dealing with it, and choosing which "side" to align with. Of course, choosing a side does not mean that the other "side" disappears. That other side must always be there to contemplate in order to continue to choose.

 

[Rich]

I think that the key concept is choice. When people are faced with extremely bad circumstances, it is true that most do not behave reasonably. But it is also true that some will take the opportunity to be their best and become heroes by showing compassion, leadership, brotherhood or any other virtue that is called for at the moment. The difference with 'normal' daily circumstances is that in a war or natural disaster we are forced to make that choice, and naturally a few will make the right one. 'A few' from the entire planet can translate into a lot of people, so we may not be wrong in having some hope that this will make a difference.

Of course, we still have the problem that most will not make the 'good' choice. I can only imagine that this might be due to something the Cs mentioned in the early sessions, about how a small percentage of people who are awake could balance out the overwhelming majority who aren't, because the awake ones somehow carry more 'weight'.

Just stepping back to this point from WK, I think many of us do experience how that 'weight' manifests practically. I notice in social interactions over a period of time that consistently sticking to diet does influence people we interact with.

From areas where I falter, I think a key variable is reaction time too. In ones day job and personal lives we are often forced to make a decision and can be hampered by thought processes and emotional reactions of others that delay reaction time. Fortunately most of us are not dealing with life-death situations and are able to get feedback that enables us to correct our mistakes. It will help us strengthen to be able to make the right decisions when time is of the essence. Naturally diet and cleaning ones machine is vital and wonder if there are proven methods and tools to increase reaction time.

In times of crisis when traditional power structures are disrupted people are naturally drawn to people they trust and who react for the benefit of others. The current fake media role models will evaporate, leaving a vacuum for real people to fill. As Joe has said before, being one of those is a worthy aim to aspire to.

That other side must always be there to contemplate in order to continue to choose.

Glad you said that. Can be easy sometimes to over-think a decision one has made that made one step into the wrong team's side. like who one works for or products one buys. Maybe it is the case that the further you step away the harder it is to come back. The path is still there but tougher to navigate.

 

[Windmill knight]

Rejecting negative emotions is like trying to walk with only your left foot. You have two of them for a reason. Consider that life is full of both positive and negative experiences, and that the right response to many of these comes in the form of negative emotions. If you are walking down the street and you see a person kicking a dog for no good reason, the correct response would be to feel angry. In that case, the 'negative' emotion is performing a very healthy and 'positive' function: that of seeing injustice for what it is, and even providing energy to do something about it.

There is also a psychological toll to pay if we ignore negative emotions. We can't just turn them off, so ignoring them only pushes them to the subconscious, and that which is not dealt with comes back to haunt us. That si more or less what Carl Jung referred to as 'the Shadow'.

 

[RflctnOfU]

That other side must always be there to contemplate in order to continue to choose.

I agree with this statement Joe. Gurdjieff expressed this as "One hand washes the other" --- or rather this is one of the ways G's statement can be viewed. Another concept that connects with this is that in this world, things are defined in terms of their opposite. Up means nothing without down. Black and white... Good and Evil, etc. Another statement of G's that is very rich with internal meaning, and is applicable, is "Every stick has two ends". In addition, these ideas also - in a subtle manner - express the Law of Three...in Joe's statement, the third force is indicated in choice. But without the positive/negative opposition, as Joe stated, there can be no choice, no manifestation of the third force. It is through the manifestation of the third force that very fine, subtle energies are liberated, increasing the overall density of vibrations...or, as the C's expressed it, Frequency Resonance Vibration (am I remembering that correctly?)

Kris

 

[Ollie]

That other side must always be there to contemplate in order to continue to choose.

I agree with this statement Joe. Gurdjieff expressed this as "One hand washes the other" --- or rather this is one of the ways G's statement can be viewed. Another concept that connects with this is that in this world, things are defined in terms of their opposite. Up means nothing without down. Black and white... Good and Evil, etc. Another statement of G's that is very rich with internal meaning, and is applicable, is "Every stick has two ends". In addition, these ideas also - in a subtle manner - express the Law of Three...in Joe's statement, the third force is indicated in choice. But without the positive/negative opposition, as Joe stated, there can be no choice, no manifestation of the third force. It is through the manifestation of the third force that very fine, subtle energies are liberated, increasing the overall density of vibrations...or, as the C's expressed it, Frequency Resonance Vibration (am I remembering that correctly?)

Kris

I agree. Everything is in balance, one end of the stick with the other. In terms of emotions (negative and positive), daily we live on a continuum between 'one end of the stick and the other end' (between positive and negative), and, at any one time, with a preference (choice) to be in one position along the continuum. Whilst living that preference (leaning towards one end, either positive or negative), the 'other end' is still there. It is our choice where we place ourselves at any one time.

 

[edgitarra]

Now when I see more and more of the horror in the world, when I see what humans (and psychos) do to each other, I just want out. I can accept it for what it is, and accept that I cannot change it and cannot change anyone. What I still don't fully understand is why we have to be here and participate.

Maybe there is something in you that said "Yes" to this life experience before remembering it. Or maybe it is not even our choice to do so. Maybe what you were able to choose was to actually see those horrors, thus coming to the question of "why we have to be here?". If you would have not see it, ignorance would have kept you in a such a sleep you would not care about what is real or not. Arriving to the question of "why here?" is a very important step in this process. Living that question is even more important. Maybe there will never be a full understanding of "Why?" in this human experience. Maybe the whole idea of "Why" is experienced in levels.

 

[Yas]

Very interesting thoughts, everyone!

I've been thinking about what you all have said and I think that maybe the choice also amounts to not wallow in negative emotions. What I mean is that, we can see them, we "feel" them, we notice them as information from which we can learn something, but we don't wallow in them being completely absorbed by them. We don't feed them. It's like what some psychology books say, to sit with it, acknowledge their existence, but no believing that you are the emotion, it is there, it tells you something, listen to it and move on according to what you learn.

Of course, this isn't as easy to do as it is to say it... yet, what I am learning little by little is that it is true that discipline helps us achieve this kind of relationship with emotions, especially meditation and the awareness of them.

It reminds of the story about the "good" wolf and the "bad" wolf we have inside. I liked how it is explained in this video:

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[Alada]

In addition, these ideas also - in a subtle manner - express the Law of Three...in Joe's statement, the third force is indicated in choice. But without the positive/negative opposition, as Joe stated, there can be no choice, no manifestation of the third force. It is through the manifestation of the third force that very fine, subtle energies are liberated, increasing the overall density of vibrations...or, as the C's expressed it, Frequency Resonance Vibration (am I remembering that correctly?)

That’s where my thoughts went on this too, that negative emotions are necessary and can be seen as a kind of fuel in that regard.

Im not part of negative emotions, thats my creation. Even if it exists and i dont deny it, im just not part of it :)

Then you are abdicating your purpose in the reality and will probably never grow or advance.

I think that its necessary to recognize our negative part to advance, but i think too that i can decide to create what i want (when i say create, i mean all i do is a creation) and i dont want to create negative emotions. I dont say im perfect, but i do my best to not include negative emotions in my "creation". Its a choice. Sorry for my english, im a french canadian.

That statement though is a bit like a steam locomotive intent on setting out on long and difficult journey, yet forever stuck standing at the station, declaring that it does not want to create any steam. It’s not going to go anywhere, but at least there will be lots of time to polish the brass so it will look nice and shiny.

 

[luke wilson]

Tell you what I dislike... Complainers! It's all good & well, 'complaining' but when it comes time to act, you do what's required and work through anything that pops up that can hinder you. I only say this because in my day job, I've noticed 1 chronic complainer. A person who when met with anything that arises a negative emotion in him whilst he's performing a task, he stops and complains! Naturally external consideration demands that you cater this person back to a good emotional state where they can continue... Internal consideration makes me want to shout across, "For God's sake, less complaining and more doing, can you just accept that some things will never work out the way you want and just bloody get on with it. All this time and energy spent complaining is time not being used to think up a solution to whatever it is that has brought you to a grinding halt..." The thing that is absolutely the most aggravating about such people is that the necessity of the situation forces you to fix their problems.

Alas, in any event, there will be those who when met with a negative emotion rising situation, will stop everything they are doing and complain but there will also be those who will always find a way to continue doing what's required. And that in my view is why this machine is unlikely to grind to a halt. There are people who can simply work through chaos and find ways around things that would otherwise bring the machine to a grinding halt because lets be honest, this machine is messed up and hardly functions right...

 

[kalibex]

The thing that is absolutely the most aggravating about such people is that the necessity of the situation forces you to fix their problems.

Does it? Really?

 

[Buddy]

The thing that is absolutely the most aggravating about such people is that the necessity of the situation forces you to fix their problems.

Example please? We might be able to scale this up to the neighborhood of 'global.'

 

[T.C.]

Tell you what I dislike... Complainers!

luke, is the irony of this statement lost on you??

 

[Windmill knight]

Tell you what I dislike... Complainers!

luke, is the irony of this statement lost on you??

Indeed! The irony of the whole post, in fact. Luke, if I'm understanding correctly, you don't like people who have negative emotions and wallow in them (via complaining), instead of doing something to help solve the situation, right? I'm going to shoot in the dark and ask if you see anything of the pattern followed by those people in yourself, which perhaps explains why you dislike them so much. ;)

 

[luke wilson]

The thing that is absolutely the most aggravating about such people is that the necessity of the situation forces you to fix their problems.

Example please? We might be able to scale this up to the neighborhood of 'global.'

Example one;

So, there is a team of 3 of us working on the same project. Each person must do their bit for the successful completion of the whole project. The 'complainer' who can't handle anything not functioning 'practically' as it should 'theoretically' i.e. who can't handle any introduction of 'chaos' into his work-stream, will 'stop' when he meets something not 'as it should be'.

He will simply stop and start to complain. Yes! He will be making loads of good points. I on the other hand, will be there, thinking hmmm... "Is he going to come up with a way to overcome this obstacle or am I going to have to do it for him?".... Oh wait... he's still complaining... ok, up I get, off I go to see what the problem is... off I start coming up with a way to overcome the problem (for him!)... back I come back to continue with my bit... 10 minutes later... repeat... another obstacle... "solution?".... "No? why not? not working as it should....", "think of a way around it, if you've determined it isn't working as it should, then think of a way around the problem"... "no, can't, I can't get over the issue that it's not working as it should!"

The necessity then is that I need to fix it for him, for him to continue, for the project to finish...

PS: I like the guy... I just dislike the chronic complaining.

Example two:

At my old job, a lady got promoted to be a manager and I and another guy got put in her team... in one situation, due to some miscommunication between her and her boss, she received what was usually a week long project on a friday afternoon, which was meant to be finalised and delivered by the following Tuesday. She protested that we had to extend the deadline but the client wouldn't have any of it as the miscommunication was internal (basically between her, and her boss)...

Do you know what she did? She started to cry...

Here I was, sat opposite her, thinking... "Our leader is crying... what's the plan to get this thing out the door when our leader is bloody crying?"

She then proceeds to hand the work to me and say... deal with it... I look at my team-mate and say, 'I guess we gotta figure this out'.. PS! We did between the 2 of us and had it out the door by the following Tuesday. That manager is probably one of the best I've ever had but that one situation was like out of this world... 'Our leader is crying... when we need her to be leading...' What the hell do you do then? You bloody do her job for her or nothing gets done!

 

[luke wilson]

Tell you what I dislike... Complainers!

luke, is the irony of this statement lost on you??

Haha, I know I am a complainer... the thread 'hit a wall' is a good example. I just don't like complainers who due to their complaining, force others to pick up their slack...

It's surely good to complain every now and again, it's even therapeutic... but there is a time to complain and there is a time to act.. That was the point I was aiming at.

I could be wrong though... :)