Negative Emotions, Thoughts And How to Counteract Them

[Anthony]

A few years ago, I read The Inner Citadel: The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius by the late french philosopher Pierre Hadot. In it he makes the case that Meditations were written as type of spiritual exercise (it was never even meant to be published, and I think that the correct translation of the title is To Myself, or something along those lines), where Aurelius would write to himself using vivid language, metaphors, etc., that would also work on his emotional center. He was using the template of Stoic philosophy, but he adopted it in a way that worked for him.

Bringing it into context of the discussion about Helmstetter's work, and as others have mentioned already, it would mean that it's not enough to just repeat stock phrases to yourself, you'd have to talk/write these in such a way that they make sense to you personally, that they carry meaning and that there's an emotional component to it. Or as Gurdjieff would put it, to work with your whole being. This will be different for each person, and adopting some examples of self-talk that Helmstetter gives to be more in line with the C's/forum seems to be the best way to go, as that is most likely to work for us.

Hadot writes (and I'm not sure if it's from the same book mentioned above):

What's interesting about the idea of spiritual exercises is precisely that it is not a matter of a purely rational consideration, but the putting in action of all kinds of means, intended to act upon one's self. Imagination and affectivity play a capital role here: we must represent to ourselves in vivid colors the dangers of such-and-such a passion, and use striking formulations of ideas in order to exhort ourselves. We must also create habits, and fortify ourselves by preparing ourselves against hardships in advance. In Epicurean communities, people help one another, admit their weaknesses to each other, and warn others of such-and such a dangerous tendency which is beginning to manifest itself in them.

 

[987baz]

Just watched another interesting video from Therapy in a nutshell about anxiety and avoidance. At around the 18 minute mark she talks about how when you bring up memories/situations that caused anxiety with in her case a therapist but I think this applies to anyone and to this forum in particular IMO, it helps the amygdala recalibrate that anxiety, it stops the avoidance cycle and helps you process it which in turn makes it easier to overcome. So, talking about your negative emotions and situations that caused them isn't life ending in fact it's empowering, dur!! but what a good motivator to keep posting about how we are feeling!! the forum is the therapist! :)

Another thing I wanted to bring up is something my kinesiologist recently told me, she said as spiritual people, seekers if you like, we are often our own worst enemies, we expect so much from ourselves, we think we should be "better than this" why can't I get over this? I should be better etc I am certainly guilty of this, we have to understand that we are flawed and it's ok, we are humans, we are learning. The old adage treat others as you would treat yourself in reverse, how about treat yourself as you would others, I see understanding and empathy all over this forum, we are so good at giving, which is awesome, don't get me wrong, but please treat yourself in the same way, be understanding and empathetic to yourself too, you are having a human experience warts and all.

 

[Menna]

Another thing I wanted to bring up is something my kinesiologist recently told me, she said as spiritual people, seekers if you like, we are often our own worst enemies, we expect so much from ourselves, we think we should be "better than this" why can't I get over this? I should be better etc I am certainly guilty of this, we have to understand that we are flawed and it's ok, we are humans, we are learning. The old adage treat others as you would treat yourself in reverse, how about treat yourself as you would others, I see understanding and empathy all over this forum, we are so good at giving, which is awesome, don't get me wrong, but please treat yourself in the same way, be understanding and empathetic to yourself too, you are having a human experience warts and all.

I liken this part to an athlete or musician or artists who want's to "be good" "do well" "improve" at their craft. The being in that sport or art is striving for improvement to be better or what have you. Thus you compare, remember your own performance to your former self and the performance of others and your goals or achievements/benchmarks of others in the industry thus as spiritual, esoteric and or self improvement focused beings the aforementioned can creep into the spiritual/self improvement realm as well.

How and I doing? In 2021 I had trouble with this and I still am, I am not reaching my spiritual/self improvement benchmark (that I am setting for myself) others on forum or in groups are farther along and so on...Similar to I missed a big shot in a game that I trained over and over for. ... This is masochism/neuroticism which I notice in myself. Regardless if I am doing something extreme "cutting" or not so extreme over thinking that leads to low self worth emotions its all in the ball park of masochism and neuroticism IMO. A self imposed benchmark is to lesson these lower emotions/thought loops more and more as the years go on and on...But I do not have to - its a voluntary goal.

I know that I want progress (measurable success) in what I spend my time and energy on thus being "better" or progressing within the spiritual, esoteric, self improvement realm is important as that is were I spend my time and energy...I don't want to spend 8hrs a day at work and have no compensation to use a 3D practical analogy that most can relate too...Thus if I read books network and so on for years and the same spiritual/self improvement issue is still there its important to recognize this and change course and or use different resources...

As a side note - I have experienced measurable improvement so I stick to what has served this progress thus when I find a paint brush I like or trainer I like or piano I like - I try and glean all that I can from it. I more want to find what works for me on an individual level and go in that direction until I feel I should mix it up with another spiritual, esoteric, self improvement tool for progress/knowledge at the same time yes what you mention above is good to keep in mind as well but at the same time being sincere that "this" thing is not working or I "feel" I am not where I want to be is also important to give this feeling its recognition to explore other tools/information. Don't dismiss an honest gauge because the lower emotional center is taking over. Like a gold miner "panning" for gold there is alot of rock, rubble, dirt to sift through covering the gold.

One can have expectations/goal of and for themselves and at the same time be humbled and understand the flaws while searching for what will bring measurable progress. Without tipping the scales to masochism/neuroticism/activation lower centers

As a scientist if we are looking for a chemical reaction inside ourselves and after months or years the said reaction is not working it is ok to switch up the ingredients without being hard on oneself but being honest with reality and what is going on outside and inside ourselves THEN STOP! After this honest sincere recognition there is no need for the lower emotion/lower intellectual center to get involved. Notice what is and find the tool/instrument to adjust...This is voluntary...No one else is asking this of you...No one else is depending on your improvements as long as you can provide the 3D survival tangibles...obyvatel.

Spiritual, esoteric, self improvement work is voluntary we don't need it for survival here in 3D albiet, I like to try and live optimally so I engage. Its not logical to have a negative reaction to your time spent at the soup kitchen but if you feel you didn't have the best attitude and left early well recognize that and next time improve don't go home and lose sleep over it...

Recognizing what's not working and being hard on oneself are two separate things that come in the same package.

 

[BHelmet]

All so true funny and sad all at the same time.

Just admit to yourself that you suck and then say so what, get over yourself and get back to work.

This is a thing one of my sons and I joke about.

Embedded is the stance and affirmation: I can stand in the presence of my own suckage; acknowledge it; shrug it off; realize it’s all just one big internal opinionated conversation centering on the fragile ego and self-destructive programming and get back to being the magnificent evolved transcendental unicorn of light that I like to imagine that I am without having to make a big deal about it.

Kidding. But not kidding. The point is, if you run from what you don’t want to face, it just gets bigger and becomes more solidified. (And positive affirmation can take the form of running away/denial if it’s not well thought out) I’m saying DNA can be wired intentionally to choose laughing in the face of adversity as a stand against the outrageousness of our situation. (Being in an experimental planetary Gulag)
There are others ways to choose our relationship with existence and other attitudes that can be adopted. Like, I am calm in the face of the absurd or whatever is true to who you are.

Bottom line, the embedded programming isn’t really who you are! (And perhaps neither is the internal conversation about it all)

 

[BHelmet]

This is such fertile ground. Look and see what is underneath the surface.

“My opinion of myself is very important to me.”

 

[Alejo]

I also couldn't help but wonder if someone who thinks a little too highly of themselves/highly narcissistic, and needs to improve their character would probably not benefit from positive self-talk if they are already using that kind of talk, when a good reality check would be more appropriate. Reminded me of a person Mark Manson wrote about in 'The Subtle Art...' of a guy who was always talking highly of himself and selling himself to everyone about how great he was (whether he truly believed it is another story) but everyone around him could see he was the exact opposite of what he professed to be and more of a leach.

I thought about this too, like what if someone who already thinks of themselves as flawless picks this up and runs with it, I guess it wouldn't have too much of an effect as their brains would already be wired with "yes" but it is interesting to ponder about it.

And yes, I agree I think it still a positive practice, as most people do need a way to balance out their negative inner talk, and perhaps with this one can approach a more objectively true vision of oneself?

 

[Alma.Innovadora]

It may not be that the negative feelings leave entirely, maybe they just weaken to the point that it's easier to fluidly move out of them - or they don't 'possess'.

I have noticed that these negative thoughts are more reinforced when it comes to people with whom we have been emotionally associated and therefore emotions with which we have identified, giving them so much imaginative life parallel to reality and the circumstance itself.

A direct example that I have observed is when an offense comes from a person we do not know, a person who is not close to our most intimate circle, family, friendship, etc. There is no way that our repressed emotions are "activated" by any identification, because there is no emotional link involved, unless the circumstance itself triggers some emotional state related to a repressed and constant specific thought that comes out through the associated link. Otherwise, we remain immutable to whatever we are told, one does not fight and indeed, in some cases, one is completely immune to being reactive. A certain degree of "indifference" may be felt towards such acts and words of others. But it would be just indifference because we are not linked on any emotional level, however it does not mean that we are really making a choice or at least not consciously. But in a certain way, we are not letting ourselves be possessed by our negative emotions either.

Another everyday example, a co-worker tells you in an unassertive way that you are not efficient because a job did not turn out as their false personal expectations wanted and we relate it to a mother or father or partner having told us the same thing in some different circumstance, but that negative and selective reinforcement does not differentiate the circumstance itself to try to bring the situation to fruition, it only revives that repressed emotion and instead of taking it in the most assertive way such as explaining objectively the reasons why the job has not turned out well, especially if it was a mistake of strategy and poorly elaborated and that escapes from our hands or without in fact it depended on us and add the other person to look for a solution without needing to see this co-worker as a ghost with whom to fight and throw insults that in the end will not succeed because it is that, a battle against a ghost in our head reflected in the other person. And not to mention the emotional mix of the other person that could even vary in worse things in their internal state just by being in a position of authority. Not to mention having to be in the constant presence of people that indirectly reinforces that "feeling" of discomfort that restrains your simplest acts of courtesy.

Many variables, but the same identifications of lesser or greater degree faced and to see which one predominates over the other.

And if you manage to momentarily overcome that state or the guard is lowered, the ruminating thought comes, diverting that state of mindfulness to look for guilty and feel offended. In those ruminating thoughts I contemplate the harvested field of repressed emotions to be able to identify with which seeds it is that I have planted them and to be able to take them out of the earth of my mind, because when you are gradually more aware, you realize that you were only left with four weeds in a corner of your head and vacated the rest of the field that is much wider in terms of our range of responsibilities and spaces with which to cultivate in a better way and therefore, to obtain better fruits and better "mental foods" that make us healthier as we need it instead of running out of resources.

Finding that point of balance and consciously making the choice because if "serving others" for the love of the coming humanity means that apart from fighting with oneself, understanding oneself one must also do it with others and endure the attack, all together on the fly... god/universe or whatever, I need backup now!!!

 

[BHelmet]

Here is another “take”. The emotional hits are never going to end. The issue is more a case of how quickly the processing can take place. Someone could say - wow that didn’t affect you at all. But the fact is that the emotional bomb blast and calling in the clean up crew can happen quickly with self knowledge.

 

[Menna]

I have noticed that these negative thoughts are more reinforced when it comes to people with whom we have been emotionally associated and therefore emotions with which we have identified, giving them so much imaginative life parallel to reality and the circumstance itself.

Not only emotionally associated but mom or dad or brother or sister or good friend or spouse. We live life with and need to survive with. Unless one is alone. Thus from a survival or decision making or living life properly standpoint it’s concerning how these people we share reality with act thus if certain things are said it’s concerning because you have to think to say. If certain actions/decisions are done it is concerning because emotion and physical centers are involved thus it can be freighting or deleterious if a close person who you are in life with says, decides or acts a certain way. Being “set up” or subverted or undermined or harmed sets one “back” or makes one’s life “harder” thus even if the aforementioned happens consciously or unconsciously the fact is that it’s happening thus it can trigger the more centered or self improved being as the Warning lights start to flash forward n YOU. Now to protect yourself, your being, your reality and life you have to calculate a decision.

How you react is how you react but for survival the emotions/thoughts HAVE to be in you just like a tiger running at you - you must be worried/affraid. Well a mother or spouse or close friend breaking a promise or doing the opposite of what is said or saying something hurtful unwarranted I liken to the tiger running at you, albeit the danger may not be so immediate it is your being recognizing danger or potential harm or a change in reality which can lead to harm if you continue to engage. What to do m? Leave completely, lesson time/interactions, limit their importance in your life, information you give…

A stranger or person you have met a few times or see infrequent if acting negative to you or being “mean” should NOT invoke the same level of WARNING emotions in you as those that are in your reality/life this I believe the survival emotions and emotions in general are stronger in those we are in life/reality with and by nature emotionally close with. The stranger can be ignored…the infrequent associate can be tolerated but are you not going to talk to your parents, partner, long time friend?… its easier to quell emotions as they naturally arise in you with those you are in reality/life with by learning about the work and at the same time use tact to still be involved while not being involved as much as before you come to certain awareness/realizations or leave these people completely …if there is physical violence or anything on that level well that’s a different topic all together…

 

[Menna]

Someone could say - wow that didn’t affect you at all.

My reply to this hypothetical would be “It didn’t affect me now because it use to”

People go to physical therapy to fix a sprained ankle, they clean up their diet to fix auto immune or lose weight but it seems improving lower center reaction in the physical being is foreign to capitalistic societies.

Where are the centers/emotional improvement “fitness center”

Who wants to open a chain of lower center emotional processing business centers? A few in each major city should do it we can call it “The Work”

 

[BHelmet]

My suggestion is that it is not possible to be permanently unaffected in this life. But if we are evolved and it is a bump in the road, an outside observer might think that I was indifferent to the land mine but what really happened is that I sewed my legs back on quickly without it being noticed. And not hypothetical but actual.

 

[Alma.Innovadora]

I don't know if some words were changed when translating, but I didn't understand a lot of what you told me.

Not only emotionally associated but mom or dad or brother or sister or good friend or spouse.

A stranger or person you have met a few times or see infrequent if acting negative to you or being “mean” should NOT invoke the same level of WARNING emotions in you as those that are in your reality/life this I believe the survival emotions and emotions in general are stronger in those we are in life/reality with and by nature emotionally close with

By associates, I mean the people with whom you interact in general through a conscious emotional link or not, especially those who are outside your family link, what you are looking for "outside" of yourself, to identify yourself.

Indifference according to the official culture:

"Who is not inclined to one person or thing more than another and who shows no interest or affection for someone or something".

Nowadays indifference is expressed at egocentric levels resulting in a lack of empathy towards our fellow human beings. In short, they don't care about life, beyond their existential island, nothing matters to them.

From the Stoic teachings, it is to give everything its place, recognizing that it should or should not be attended to with the correct criteria, but without disagreeing or believing that in life, we should only attend to our whims and wishful thoughts and see the negative as something that we just have to avoid.

We have "unnecessary problems" or rather, we worsen our situation due to the lack of criterion/judgment/awareness/knowledge when facing things accompanied by unrestrained emotions.

We all know what "indifference" is and how we come to know it at key moments such as the lack of empathy towards life or with people in particular, but we do not see it with the intention of contemplating the situation precisely as a trigger to glimpse that "brief detachment" that gives us those negative emotions, from which we can extract that knowledge so then, to be able to give each thing its place and the correct attitude and response that deserves or should be applied in a particular situation.

 

[Liliea]

Indifference according to the official culture:
"Who is not inclined to one person or thing more than another and who shows no interest or affection for someone or something".

Nowadays indifference is expressed at egocentric levels resulting in a lack of empathy towards our fellow human beings. In short, they don't care about life, beyond their existential island, nothing matters to them.

But if we are evolved and it is a bump in the road, an outside observer might think that I was indifferent to the land mine but what really happened is that I sewed my legs back on quickly without it being noticed. And not hypothetical but actual.

At the moment I am going through an interaction with unbalanced people and places where injustice abounds, the energy is inevitably dense and well I've been carried away by the hurricane of negative emotions which has been quite miserable ...So I recommend: Breathe EE, rest, reduce the emotional load; be insightful in questioning the honesty (yours and others), "the control" that one wants to exercise over the natural course of events and the way others want to manipulate you and how distortion occurs and manifests; To me the truth has served me as a strategy the indifference and detachment to consciously focus my energy on the balance of my emotions and see when someone wants to "push the button", I do not care if with that I get to see me externally little empathic, because sometimes the situation warrants it, in this way I think there may be some "gain" to recognize the weaknesses that we experience in stressful situations and follow another where I can choose consciously with my free will and not have to "sew my legs back" to again.

Cass. says, answer what deserves a lie: The Truth.

 

[Alma.Innovadora]

when someone wants to "push the button"

If you already understand even a little bit the dynamics of a certain interaction with a certain type of people as a reflection of what you have to face, that characteristic "ok here we go again", the way to respond should be different from all the previous ones, of course analyzing what and why your previous answers have been.

Let it now be a testing ground, of experimentation because if you are in a certain degree of awareness, you can see "from the outside" and "down" their behaviors without letting yourself get dragged back and know how to wait for the attacks and their modalities but at the same time double the observation and intention with ourselves because we already know that it is easier to "See the straw in someone else's eye, and not the beam in our own" and in turn it is an indicator with which we must measure ourselves, that is why the triple of intention at work.

Sometimes you have to make space in the very place of hell where you are and come to your senses, according to the experience of each person. And boy do we have it! for a thousandth of seconds the option is shown, but if emotions control "here we go again", again.

Every time after a certain interaction we tell ourselves "I knew this was going to happen", "I shouldn't have said this", etc. It's because we had the signals and the option in "sight", but not the strategy or enough control for a better/healthy to act and direct ourselves to a different result, at least for the benefit of ourselves. The patterns.

With regard to the manipulation that you mention, when you analyze well the dynamics and the behavior patterns and the signals that were always around but that we didn't pay attention to, you realize that those people never really did anything, if they managed to do it, it's because one gave up control over us for some weakness, for some illusion that we didn't accept or we weren't prepared to do it. "The devil tempts you" but if you know your weaknesses, he will not stay at the door for long, but it also does not mean that he does not appear with another offer (laughs), but you decide whether or not to open the door and buy what he sells.

That's why when you put limits and cut off that food supply, those who are inside the Trojan horse are forced to let themselves be seen with their weapons and intentions. Build a better defense. No ordinary soldier sneaks into your castle with good sentries covering entrances, exits and exposed flanks.

Well, now whatever falls from the sky, grab on! (laughs).

 

[Menna]

I don't know if some words were changed when translating, but I didn't understand a lot of what you told me.




By associates, I mean the people with whom you interact in general through a conscious emotional link or not, especially those who are outside your family link, what you are looking for "outside" of yourself, to identify yourself.

Indifference according to the official culture:

"Who is not inclined to one person or thing more than another and who shows no interest or affection for someone or something".

Nowadays indifference is expressed at egocentric levels resulting in a lack of empathy towards our fellow human beings. In short, they don't care about life, beyond their existential island, nothing matters to them.

From the Stoic teachings, it is to give everything its place, recognizing that it should or should not be attended to with the correct criteria, but without disagreeing or believing that in life, we should only attend to our whims and wishful thoughts and see the negative as something that we just have to avoid.

We have "unnecessary problems" or rather, we worsen our situation due to the lack of criterion/judgment/awareness/knowledge when facing things accompanied by unrestrained emotions.

We all know what "indifference" is and how we come to know it at key moments such as the lack of empathy towards life or with people in particular, but we do not see it with the intention of contemplating the situation precisely as a trigger to glimpse that "brief detachment" that gives us those negative emotions, from which we can extract that knowledge so then, to be able to give each thing its place and the correct attitude and response that deserves or should be applied in a particular situation.

Thank you for letting me know to elaborate

You mentioned “emotional” attachment. With that often comes survival and or important decision making based on data…So I mentioned mom, dad, partner, wife, husband as we are close with these people emotionally but also from a reality/life sharing survival data decision making standpoint so emotions are triggered in us from a caring or other emotional center vibration but also from physical safety and intellectual decision making standpoint. My point is it’s more than just emotional.

For example I was very emotionally attached to my grandmother but I didn’t share reality/life/decision making with her on the level of parents/spouse/sibling thus the reaction in me the triggers were not activated as strongly. I was pointing out emotion AND survival/reality sharing people are different than JUST emotionally close people. (I believe this answers your first quote from my response)

To elaborate on the second quote from my response….A stranger or non emotional/survival “associate” person we don’t interact with from a sharing reality/life data decision making the same way as immediate family or close friend or partner thus it is not logical to have the same reaction towards them even if they do the same thing. You may use the word indifference I just think it’s wasted energy and silly to have the same reaction toward everyone/situation equally so by default there will be “indifference”

Regarding indifference I more look at situations, what happens and who is involved and the involvement that dynamic has in my life. I don’t shut down empathy or caring however I choose not to act on emotions triggered by certain people or things. I don’t have indifference in my centers I control or choose when they are acted upon.

For example recently I gave my lighter to a homeless man when I was walking in the city because he asked me for “a light” my friend looked at me and said why did you do that.

I calculated the situation as:

1) I only smoke cigars infrequently
2) I didn’t need the lighter for the rest of the night
3) I have another lighter at home.
4) I felt in my emotional center a “feeling bad” for the man but because of who he is in my life and the situation I didn’t choose to ask why he is homeless, or give advice or try to help in a meaningful way - Is this indifference or just calculating the situation and making a choice?

I was indifferent to the homeless man from a decision making/reality/life sharing standpoint. He didn’t invoke empathy in me at the level someone close would or my emotions in general I viewed it as a being wanted something I had and I can spare it and was being altruistic (in a very small way) by not just giving a light but giving the lighter for many future lights…

I don’t really concern myself with what majority of society does (maybe I should more) I more look at my life the people regularly in it and how I can be “better” improve and create holistic dynamics. I and we as being only have so much bandwidth to give.