NeuroFeedback, NeurOptimal and Electroencephalography

[seek10]

I had 10 sessions as of now. My observations are

- Reduced excitability and reactionary mechanicality.
- Some feelings popup related to my mother who passed away almost 2 decades ago, which was surprising.
- This also means reduced observation of feelings, which usually tend to be negative and those aggravated the developmental trauma. This is good in general sense, but this needs some balancing, I think
- My Son seems to be much calmer though he did only 6 sessions as of now, though it could be related to lack of laptop for last 2.5 months.

We rented the item for one month and have to make a decision on extending it for another month or not. Probably we can do another 3 or 4 in the next 10 days. 14 sessions for the month. If the author of the program suggests having 20 sessions max in a stretch, renting for another one month is too long. probably i have to ask for 15 days and see whether agree for it. I feel like doing it for 20 sessions at least.

Initially, I did pre-baseline and post-baseline and later I stopped doing it as it is difficult to interpret it and probably disappointing. When I see "Lines" in the "Analysis" tab, there are significant differences between during the session and pre and post Lines. Probably we tend to be in focus while in "Training" mode rather than pre and post-baseline modes, though the post is better than post.

 

[Divide by Zero]

Initially, I did pre-baseline and post-baseline and later I stopped doing it as it is difficult to interpret it and probably disappointing. When I see "Lines" in the "Analysis" tab, there are significant differences between during the session and pre and post Lines. Probably we tend to be in focus while in "Training" mode rather than pre and post-baseline modes, though the post is better than post.

I haven't had luck with the baselines. You make a good point about being in focus, plus being in a different position than a laid down or sit down position to do the analysis while watching the screen to hit start/stop.

The same thing that makes traditional QEEG a problem might make these baselines a problem: our brains change a lot minute by minute, so there's not much of a true steady state to "measure".

 

[Chu]

Initially, I did pre-baseline and post-baseline and later I stopped doing it as it is difficult to interpret it and probably disappointing. When I see "Lines" in the "Analysis" tab, there are significant differences between during the session and pre and post Lines. Probably we tend to be in focus while in "Training" mode rather than pre and post-baseline modes, though the post is better than post.

I haven't had luck with the baselines. You make a good point about being in focus, plus being in a different position than a laid down or sit down position to do the analysis while watching the screen to hit start/stop.

The same thing that makes traditional QEEG a problem might make these baselines a problem: our brains change a lot minute by minute, so there's not much of a true steady state to "measure".

True... I think it's just to have a general idea, and some people's brain may take hours before their session has an effect anyway. We actually like saving the whole session, and then you can select and view that instead. Without having done any training, it's still hard to interpret things, but at least it gives you a general idea of where the clicks where, how the left and right hemispheres are doing (whether the waves cross over each other or not, the latter supposedly meaning more balance), etc.

Good stuff, seek10! And good to hear about your son being calmer too. IMO, if you feel that you need 20 sessions, there is nothing wrong with doing that, and then taking a break. All the practitioners I've spoken to all said that up to 20 was the most requested protocol until things "click" (no pun intended), and the person feels much better over longer periods of time. THEN, they take a break. So, I guess anything between 12 and 20 should be alright., and you get to make the prolonged rental worth it.

 

[Altair]

I had my 5th session today. I decided to do extended version (about 45 minutes) and felt a bit more balanced afterwards. I feel that it does something to the brain but somehow it's subtle and is difficult to verbalize. I'm wondering whether it makes sense to alternate audio with video sessions (I did only audio so far) to give the brain also the possibility to receive visual feedback?

 

[Laura]

Well, hopefully we'll get as many reports as possible so I can organize some questions for Cs about this.

 

[Bobo08]

I had my 20th session this morning. I must say the result so far exceeds all of my expectation at the beginning.

For me, the most significant benefit has been a huge reduction in the level of anxiety, both background and in social interaction. As a result, I started to enjoy social interaction more, something I never thought would be possible.

I also notice a general increase in the feeling of well being. Everything just seems brighter and I began to appreciate little beautiful things around me more. The other day, one of my co-workers saw me running into the office from the rain and she remarked she had never seen me so happy.

Someone mentioned earlier about eye twitching. That reminded me that I had it on and off since a few months ago, probably due to the stress I experienced from recent life events. But it completely stopped when I started doing the NO.

I have been taking GABA Calm as advised by Laura and it helped to solve the sleep issue. I tried to do one session a day. However, when I felt things are going too fast, I increased the inter-session interval to 36 hours. So it's a mix of both.

My daughter has done 6 sessions so far. She reported feeling more awake and engaging with her days, less of the passive going through the flows. So it seems to benefit her too, even with the smaller number of sessions.

 

[truth seeker]

I've now had my 9th and 10th sessions.

So far the general state of relaxation is holding up although there was a bit of 'what's the point' kind of feeling for a few hours. The important thing for me is knowing that I can get through to the other side of it.

Sometimes it's difficult knowing that life is a continuous battle with one form of suffering or another, but little by little, I feel more able to accept that and be okay with facing it.

When I first heard about this treatment (I think in the Nora Gedgaudas book), I'd wondered if it might be something that would help with anxiety, but never thought that it could work so quickly or so well.

In the last 2 sessions, stress/tightness in my shoulders feel as if they've moved up from there to my neck and are proceeding upwards towards my head. My arms also felt tingly.

 

[Gaby]

I've done 5 additional NeurOptimal sessions, including the extended version on 3 occasions. In total, I've done 15 NeurOptimal sessions and 7 qEEG sessions (last one nearly 2 weeks ago).

Anxiety is greatly reduced. On one occasion I was unable to calm down after a dentist appointment. I only felt better after a short nap and another NeurOptimal session. However, there was more of an observer in me throughout this process. There is more cognitive or will power available, though I have to consciously utilize the new resources, otherwise they don't automatically employ themselves. Still, it is easier to recall coming back to the present and just have that feeling of having more willpower available. I feel like I'm more myself. I feel like I can take care of daily duties more naturally as well.

The extended version in the last 3 sessions left me even calmer and more grounded. I reviewed historical and current past events unfolding in the globe. I would zoom in and out regions according to events, feeling my chest expanding, becoming more aware of my feelings in general. If I don't do any specific imagining exercise, my mind would just wander off. Sometimes I realize I'm angry, other times that I need to take care of certain things. When I see myself wandering off, I try to deliberately come back to my body and feel my chest and my body in general. There are a few clicks in the audio while I do this until I settle down or "land".

Lately, I've done only the NeurOptimal's music version with eyes closed. Prior to that, I did look at the graphics while listening to the music. From my qEEG sessions, I realized that visual feedback with a movie is easier in comparison to training with your eyes closed using an audio as neurofeedback. "Chaotic" activity with eyes closed (in posterior regions of the brain) is an indirect marker of pre-verbal hypervigilance. It has been practically impossible to work with my eyes closed in qEEG NF. However, since NeurOptimal works differently and progressively, I've been quite content to work with my eyes closed. Some people who are more auditory might have more difficulties with visual NF though, I'm not sure.

I have to return the NeurOptimal equipment next week and did think about extending the rental. Since 40 sessions feels like too much, I'll just return the equipment. I have the impression that I need to work with what I have right now. In the worst case scenario, I'll just re-rent the equipment sooner rather than later. I still have 5 NeurOptimal sessions to go, so we'll see.

 

[Echo Blue]

I had my first Session one week ago, and my second Session with NO yesterday.

The first Session left me with an amazing feeling of my entire body filled with calm and lightness. And, that feeling lasted for the entire week. It was an extremely stressful week for me as my ex husband passed away suddenly three days before that initial Session. I was able to get through all the emotional ups and downs of the week with that continued calm.

I had my eyes closed during the first Session and the music was beautiful to listen to. There were lots of clicks. At one point a surge of energy flowed through me and my hands got very hot. The most surprising sensation was at the end, where I felt my head seemingly swaying from side to side. It wasn't an unpleasant sensation. And, I never fell asleep, but was very relaxed the entire time.

The second Session was almost the exact opposite. I was relaxed for most of the time. Noticed less clicks. But somewhere in what I think was the middle, a jolt of electricity went through me. Almost like a panic attack coming on. But the feeling went away quickly and I relaxed. That electric jolt happened two more times, each with less intensity. And I totally relaxed after each one of those uncomfortable moments. Shortly before the Session ended, a very strong emotion of sadness came over me and I couldn't stop the tears. When the Session was over my brain felt like it was buzzing, which also made my head feel (the only way I can explain it) like it got bigger or swelled up!? There was a foggy feeling in my head afterwards, lasting for an hour or so. Then I was just sad on and off until I fell asleep.

Slept for 10 hours, which is not like me at all. I usually sleep only 6 or 7 hours a night. Woke up with my body feeling tense and sad. I'll see how the day and week goes. Whatever is happening, I am finding this an amazing experience. And with curiosity, looking forward to more Sessions.

 

[Nienna]

I had my second session yesterday, and the first one 1 week ago.

Just a bit about how the person giving these sessions does things. There is only music to listen to. She says that it was developed specifically for the NO sessions and changes as the NO works on different parts of the brain. I really like the music, it's sort of what I call an aboriginal style of music - sort of. The person giving the sessions, I suppose she is a therapist, says that they have been told not to go over any of the baseline and afterward diagrams/images as they can cause confusion for those doing the sessions. They are just supposed to discuss how the people feel during and after the sessions. Actually, after reading the posts here, this seems to be a good approach.

Anyway, during the first session, I heard clicks now and then, but found that if I concentrated on the music and how it was making me feel, there were no clicks. I felt a tingling sensation all across my upper arms and chest at one point for about 30 seconds. Then, later on, I felt a tingling that went from my right upper arm, traveled diagonally across my body to my left hip. It only lasted about 10 seconds. I was also cold for about 1/3 of the session even though I wore my jacket through the whole things.

I felt very calm and peaceful and like I was floating during and after the session, which lasted for several days. However, when I got home from the first session I felt like I had caught cold - chills, sneezing, coughing, body aches and very exhausted, but could not sleep much that night. It lasted that night and the next day. The tiredness lasted longer. Since the exhaustion is something that I feel after I go out and meet with someone for any length of time, I thought it was just from going out.

The second session probably produced the same number of clicks, but I didn't feel any tingling. I did feel cold off and on. But it only lasted 20 seconds or so each time (still had my jacket on). I felt very peaceful during the sessions and towards the end I saw golden light (I have my eyes closed during the sessions) that filled my vision/mind(?) and was surprised when I opened my eyes at the end of the session that it was cloudy out with no sunshine as I thought it was just the sunshine coming in through the window I was facing. I, also, felt, besides the calm, what I can only describe as wonder. I know that sounds a bit corny, but that's what I felt. However, I had the same cold symptoms last night as before, but not nearly as bad and they started later, but I did not sleep hardly at all last night.

One thing that I realized about last Friday is that my hands aren't shaking as much. I haven't told anyone about this shaking. It's usually minimal, but there are times when my hands shake so bad that it's quite noticeable, but it goes away after a couple of minutes. However, when using the mouse on my computer, my hand shakes so bad that I can't stop on buttons and such to click them without a lot of concentration. There are times when the shaking is better, though. But Friday, Saturday and today, I'm not having this problem. I hope it lasts!

I do look forward to having more sessions.

Wanted to add that I didn't have the body aches last night either and I don't feel like I have a cold today.

 

[Divide by Zero]

Lately, I've done only the NeurOptimal's music version with eyes closed. Prior to that, I did look at the graphics while listening to the music. From my qEEG sessions, I realized that visual feedback with a movie is easier in comparison to training with your eyes closed using an audio as neurofeedback. "Chaotic" activity with eyes closed (in posterior regions of the brain) is an indirect marker of pre-verbal hypervigilance. It has been practically impossible to work with my eyes closed in qEEG NF. However, since NeurOptimal works differently and progressively, I've been quite content to work with my eyes closed. Some people who are more auditory might have more difficulties with visual NF though, I'm not sure.

I have to return the NeurOptimal equipment next week and did think about extending the rental. Since 40 sessions feels like too much, I'll just return the equipment. I have the impression that I need to work with what I have right now. In the worst case scenario, I'll just re-rent the equipment sooner rather than later. I still have 5 NeurOptimal sessions to go, so we'll see.

The NO visual feedback is just the windows media player visualization. It doesn't seem to be linked to what skips/pops happen with the music- and technically I can't see how it would be possible anyway with that software.
However, the qEEG NF is different, where that visualization is not the generic media center one- and their software controls it directly, based on what it is looking for. The closest thing that NO has to that is in the pro version, selecting the graphs that show the blueish bars and the yellow lines that show over/under.

I did 2 months of rental, first month used about 10 sessions and 15 the second month.
It's been a week since returning the rental and I haven't felt any rebound effect. It might be because I don't seem to have much of the connection issues/causes described in HDT. I was at first a bit disappointed that the book focused on the treatment of that specifically. But then, I realized that is the hardest to work through because it is more pre-verbal!

 

[Ollie]

... second session ...

One thing that I realized about last Friday is that my hands aren't shaking as much. I haven't told anyone about this shaking. It's usually minimal, ... I hope it lasts!

I do look forward to having more sessions.

...

I had my fifth session this afternoon, and at the end of it, talked with others about general progress, and the above post of Nienna's was mentioned, I instantly looked at my hands, (which have had mild shakes since a series of operations over the past year) and, lo and behold, they were still - no shakes!

I too, am looking forward to more sessions!

 

[seek10]

Lately, I've done only the NeurOptimal's music version with eyes closed. Prior to that, I did look at the graphics while listening to the music. From my qEEG sessions, I realized that visual feedback with a movie is easier in comparison to training with your eyes closed using an audio as neurofeedback. "Chaotic" activity with eyes closed (in posterior regions of the brain) is an indirect marker of pre-verbal hypervigilance. It has been practically impossible to work with my eyes closed in qEEG NF. However, since NeurOptimal works differently and progressively, I've been quite content to work with my eyes closed. Some people who are more auditory might have more difficulties with visual NF though, I'm not sure.

I have to return the NeurOptimal equipment next week and did think about extending the rental. Since 40 sessions feels like too much, I'll just return the equipment. I have the impression that I need to work with what I have right now. In the worst case scenario, I'll just re-rent the equipment sooner rather than later. I still have 5 NeurOptimal sessions to go, so we'll see.

The NO visual feedback is just the windows media player visualization. It doesn't seem to be linked to what skips/pops happen with the music- and technically I can't see how it would be possible anyway with that software.

Since my kids are feeling bored with the default music and visual, I called renter for options. The unit came with almost 20 popular Hollywood movies in digital format. She told me how to change the settings to play the movie with the movie soundtrack. If you set it to a movie, you can see red stop button on the speaker icon of the windows media player that is playing the movie, when music prompts happen. The renter mentioned that the effectiveness with Hollywood movies is 95% compared to the default visual. As Laura mentioned, feeling the painful incidents while doing has maximum benefit. So, I was alternating the default video and the movies for the kids.

When NO is started, 3 windows open, one is 'brain frequency display' window, "soundtrack selection" window and the windows media player window. In the soundtrack selection windows, you see "media" list box, there you can select the "Movies" and select the movies from the tablet hard disk.

 

[Jacques]

Lately, I've done only the NeurOptimal's music version with eyes closed. Prior to that, I did look at the graphics while listening to the music. From my qEEG sessions, I realized that visual feedback with a movie is easier in comparison to training with your eyes closed using an audio as neurofeedback. "Chaotic" activity with eyes closed (in posterior regions of the brain) is an indirect marker of pre-verbal hypervigilance. It has been practically impossible to work with my eyes closed in qEEG NF. However, since NeurOptimal works differently and progressively, I've been quite content to work with my eyes closed. Some people who are more auditory might have more difficulties with visual NF though, I'm not sure.

Hi Gaby,

The ladies who do the training for all the french people told us that the results are a lot better with the music version, the audio training in comparison with the video/movie training. The video training does not go as deeper as the audio training.

I have to return the NeurOptimal equipment next week and did think about extending the rental. Since 40 sessions feels like too much, I'll just return the equipment. I have the impression that I need to work with what I have right now. In the worst case scenario, I'll just re-rent the equipment sooner rather than later. I still have 5 NeurOptimal sessions to go, so we'll see.

France and I are rented the equipment for an unlimited number of sessions, We have asked the ladies if you could do one sessions every day, which means 30 sessions for the month and she told us that there is no contraindication to do that. She told us to not do more that 2 sessions a day.

 

[Chu]

... second session ...

One thing that I realized about last Friday is that my hands aren't shaking as much. I haven't told anyone about this shaking. It's usually minimal, ... I hope it lasts!

I do look forward to having more sessions.

...

I had my fifth session this afternoon, and at the end of it, talked with others about general progress, and the above post of Nienna's was mentioned, I instantly looked at my hands, (which have had mild shakes since a series of operations over the past year) and, lo and behold, they were still - no shakes!

I too, am looking forward to more sessions!

That is pretty amazing if you ask me, and for both of you! Maybe it is your sympathetic nervous system calming down in a more permanent basis? Or some "rewiring" going on? I wish neuroscientists knew about this before prescribing pills for this kind of issue.