NeuroFeedback, NeurOptimal and Electroencephalography

[Joe]

A quick search on SOTT returned a number of links showing that scientific research is largely based on pursuit of money, not pursuit of truth:

Peer reviewed 'science' losing credibility due to fraudulent research -- Sott.net
It's past time to start questioning our trust in peer-reviewed research -- Sott.net
Corrupt Science: Cancer Research of 10 Years Useless: Fraudulent Studies, Says Mayo Clinic -- Sott.net
Big Pharma's Ghostwriters: Why Are These Fraudulent Papers Unretracted? -- Sott.net
UK's top universities producing hundreds of fake research studies -- Sott.net

Here's a story from the main page of the Independent today, a great example of the BS that "peer reviewed science" is capable of providing.

For at least 40 damn years Western populations have been told to avoid red meat and animal fat like the plague because it will destroy your heart (essentially) and eat processed FAKE FOOD instead. And now, they quietly say exactly the opposite, after the job of creating an epidemic of modern illnesses has been done. It's absolutely UNCONSCIONABLE!

I'm not saying mainstream medicine is bunk, but you're a fool if you swallow the idea that it is some sacred discipline untarnished by corruption and outright lies. Buyer beware! Use your own brain, that's what it's for!

Eating red meat and cheese can help heart health, scientists claim ‌

 

[mabar]

It was a way of saying that sometimes I just read while having the NO session and the NO helps me to focus and then I forget about anything else while reading.

Ahhh, interesting! ... thanks for aswer!

--- I had minutes ago a some sort of extorsion call and hung down, and .. I felt livid, I was able to compose myself rather quickly comparing to other similar experiences .... it helped to pray and sent them (whomever called) to la chingada ... I think that NO is helping me to ...endure? certain situations, like this ones

 

[nicklebleu]

I’d like to add my voice to the mix ...

It is a bit of a fallacy to think that modern medicine only works under an umbrella of “evidence-based medicine” - actually for most of what we do in medicine, the exact opposite is true. The reason for this is that for a lot of what we advocate in medicine to be safe and effective there is just no data, and never will be, because the necessary study to produce the evidence simply never will pass any ethics approval. As an example, in cardiopulmonary resuscitation protocols adrenaline (epinephrine) is given every two minutes. No-one know whether a) it is safe and effective, and b) not harmful. But there will never be a properly (randomized controlled double-blind) study to prove the above for the reasons mentioned.

What I am trying to say is that it is impossible under the current paradigm to get evidence for many things that are the “gold standard” in medicine, and never will. It’s just a good idea backed by a “consensus” of “experts” in the field.

So in medicine, the best we can do is to retrospectively look at data, which will always be imprecise and incomplete, and full of different flavors of bias. And that’s not even talking about fraudulent research driven by financial interestes! Even a carefully designed study by itself is often meaningless, unless there is corroborating evidence like a likely mechanism of action for the observed benefit etc. - because remember, all medicine asks is a likelyhood of 5% that the result is true, which in other words means that among 100 top-notch studies there will be 5 which randomly show an incorrect result.

Coming back to NO - while I think it might well be possible to design a proper study that might or might not show any benefit, there is an additional problem, that is ignored in medicine across the board - the individuality of each and everyone of us. Sure they try to weed that one out of research by high numbers of subjects and by controlling for “confounding factors”, but the compexity is insurmountable. So what works moderately well in carefully designed studies works for some almost in a miraculous fashion, for some it somewhat works, and for some it doesn’t work at all.

I have described my own personal journey in this thread before, so I won’t repeat myself, but to summarize my own experience: For the first 15 or so sessions I didn’t feel any effect. Then I noticed subtle effects in an indirect manner, and the longer I have done it, the more I can see tangible benefits. Why NO certainly is not a panacea, I for one wouldn’t want to have missed this technology. It’s been quite the journey ...

 

[PERLOU]

Voici ma 3ème séance de Neurofeedback de mercredi 29 08 18, celle-ci s'est bien passée beaucoup de "clics" et quelques "mini-interruptions" comme la fois précédente.
La nuit de mercredi à jeudi, j'ai très mal dormi car réveillée toutes les heures ou heures et demie...
Cette nuit de vendredi 31 08 à Samedi 1 09, j'ai fait un joli rêve avec ma Maman.
Je ne cessais de balayer la pièce où nous étions toutes les deux, tant et tant que je faisais de petits tas de poussières un peu brillante pas sale du tout, comme du sable brillant.
Maman m'avait offert un cadeau (dont je ne me souviens pas) mais me disais que je n'avais pas ouvert les autres qui se trouvaient dans la Sacoche du matériel Neurofeedback d'Aurélia, je l'ouvrais et trouvais deux cadeaux dedans dont un rouge... J'étais contente et la remerciais...
Je me suis réveillée et ai pensé qu'il y avait de la symbolique dans ce rêve...
J'étais surtout heureuse d'avoir eu ce rêve avec ma Maman...
Ce matin j'ai remercié mon Cristal des rêves et lui ai demandé comme chaque jour de m'envoyer des rêves avec Ma Maman qui nous a quittés le 07 03 2015 ce qui fait 9 quand on les additionne soit "Transformation"...
J'ai trouvé aussi que c'était un signe de ma Maman décédée qui me montrait que j'étais sur le bon chemin avec vous les petites abeilles et notre Reine Laura...
Je pense refaire une séance Dimanche matin après nos réunions "Cristal" et "Reiki".

Here is my 3rd Neurofeedback session of Wednesday 29 08 18, this one went well many "clicks" and some "mini-interruptions" as the previous time.
The night from Wednesday to Thursday, I slept very badly because I woke up every hour or hour and a half...
That night from Friday 31 08 to Saturday 1 09, I had a nice dream with my Mom.
I kept sweeping the room where we were both, as long as I made little piles of dust a little shiny not dirty at all, like shiny sand.
Mom had given me a gift (which I don't remember) but told me that I hadn't opened the others in Aurelia's Neurofeedback equipment bag, I opened it and found two gifts inside, one of which was red... I was happy and thanked her...
I woke up and thought there was symbolism in that dream...
I was especially happy to have had this dream with my Mom...
This morning I thanked my Crystal of dreams and asked him as every day to send me dreams with My Mother who left us on 07 03 2015 what makes 9 when we add them is "Transformation"...
I also found that it was a sign from my deceased Mother that I was on the right path with you little bees and our Queen Laura...
I'm thinking of doing another Sunday morning session after our "Cristal" and "Reiki" meetings.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

 

[Nienna]

Thank you for updating us on your NeurOptimal treatments PERLOU. I'm glad you were able to see your mother in your dreams and that it brought you such joy. I'm hoping that you have many more dreams like the one you shared with us.

I, also, hope that you can have more NeurOptimal sessions as they do a lot of good, even if we are unaware of what is happening. Or so I think.

Keep us updated on your progress, PERLOU.


Merci de nous informer sur vos traitements NeurOptimal PERLOU. Je suis heureux que tu aies pu voir ta mère dans tes rêves et que cela t'ait apporté tant de joie. J'espère que vous avez d'autres rêves comme celui que vous avez partagé avec nous.

J'espère aussi que vous pourrez avoir plus de sessions NeurOptimal car elles font beaucoup de bien, même si nous ne sommes pas au courant de ce qui se passe. C'est du moins ce que je pense.

Tenez-nous au courant de vos progrès, PERLOU.

Traduit avec www.DeepL.com/Translator

 

[PERLOU]

Merci Nienna pour votre message, oui j'en ai encore 7 séances à faire, donc je continue...
Oui, je fais très souvent des rêves et j'ai la chance de m'en souvenir souvent et je rêve de ma Maman très régulièrement, ce qui me permet de garder un contact toujours heureux avec Elle...
Voici ce que m'a répondu Aurélia, ma thérapeute concernant ce rêve :
Merci Christiane pour ce feed-back émouvant ! Magnifique de voir les signes qui se présentent dans vos rêves. C’est assez drôle, j’expliquais à une cliente hier justement que le neurofeedback c’était un peu comme balayer devant sa porte. Et plus on le fait de manière rapproché, plus rapide est le travail.
Merci encore pour votre témoignage. Et je suis ravie de voir que votre 3e séance s’est très bien passée! Bravo Christiane !
Aurelia Egretteau


Thank you Nienna for your message, yes I still have 7 sessions to do, so I continue...
Yes, I have very often dreams and I have the chance to remember them often and I dream of my Mother very regularly, which allows me to keep in touch with Her always happy...
Here is what Aurelia, my therapist told me about this dream:
Thank you Christiane for this moving feedback! Beautiful to see the signs that appear in your dreams. It's funny enough, I was explaining to a client yesterday that neurofeedback was a bit like sweeping her door. And the closer we do it, the faster the job gets done.
Thank you again for your testimony. And I'm glad to see your third session went very well! Congratulations Christiane!
Aurelia Egretteau

 

[mabar]

I think I am focusing too much on feeling of sensation on the head/brain at the sessions ... two days ago something strange? happend ... I was thinking in whatever I tend to use to think in a negative form and stop short and, began to think that I should not think in that same pattern again and, ... the weird-noticeable? sensation in the head "appeared" ... I heard again the interview to Dr. Valdeane Brown at Sott Radio, perhaps not focusing or registering every interruption, trying to catch them all, may be better for a while?

... last time even with different music and fractals, I fall asleep many times, and dreaming for instants and, waking up traying to not do it again, ... and did it again, like being induced to close my eyes and fall asleep and dream and, the problem was that I felt bad, ashamed ...even with the confidence I have to the practictioner ... I do wonder, why then, I feel ashamed to fall asleep?

 

[987baz]

Just had my 33rd session. I actually fell asleep for most of the second half of it, which is a first for me. Felt a little groggy after the session, like coming out of a deep sleep, but woke up pretty quickly and feeling more energized now :)

. last time even with different music and fractals, I fall asleep many times, and dreaming for instants and, waking up traying to not do it again, ... and did it again, like being induced to close my eyes and fall asleep and dream and, the problem was that I felt bad, ashamed ...even with the confidence I have to the practictioner ... I do wonder, why then, I feel ashamed to fall asleep?

Interesting observation, maybe it's because you feel that by falling asleep you are not engaging with the therapy as much as you could? just a thought! But I would say that if that is the case that it's not an accurate assessment. IMO it doesn't seem to matter what you do while hooked up to the machine, as long as you are comfortable and relaxed. Just my 2 cents :)

 

[Learner]

Interesting observation, maybe it's because you feel that by falling asleep you are not engaging with the therapy as much as you could? just a thought! But I would say that if that is the case that it's not an accurate assessment. IMO it doesn't seem to matter what you do while hooked up to the machine, as long as you are comfortable and relaxed. Just my 2 cents :)

To expand on the above, I felt reminded about the Eiriu Eolas thread, where people have been writing over the years about zoning out and wondered, if this was wrong. But it was worked out in the responses and realizations regarding those posts, that zoning out was not so bad as people thought, but actually very useful for other layers of their being that were not directly aware to those experiencing the zoning out.

Maybe something similar occurs in regards to NF: it might work on more subconscious or unconscious parts while the activity related to waking consciousness is 'canceled out' (i.e. due to falling asleep). In that case it could be a good thing, as otherwise such processes might me more interfered with by waking consciousness activity - or couldn't have that working space.

Just another thought

 

[PERLOU]

Compte rendu : 4 ème séance du Dimanche 2 septembre 2018

‌Bonjour Aurélia,
Comme annoncé j'ai bien fait ma 4ème séance Dimanche 2 septembre, Je me suis couchée tôt 18h30, fatiguée, ai bien dormi jusqu'à 23h puis me réveillais toutes les heures pendant 3h et n'ai pu me rendormir...
La nuit dernière du lundi 3 au mardi 4 septembre vers 5h30, ce matin donc, après avoir bien dormi comme d'habitude, un rêve avec ma Maman m'a réveillée, m'a laissée triste et mal à l'aise jusqu'à maintenant, ce rêve me trotte dans la tête...
Le voici :
Maman et moi, nous discutions au téléphone, je la remerciais pour le "lait",
Maman me répond que je l'ai déjà remerciée pour le lait...
(Y avait-il autre chose pour laquelle j'aurai dû la remercier ?)
(Etait-ce le lait nourricier, je ne sais pas si ma Maman m'a allaitée.
Ou était ce "laid" ?)
Je lui dis : je t'aime ma Petite Maman
(c'est comme cela que je l'appelais de son vivant et dans la mort d'ailleurs...)
Elle me répondit : Moi aussi, je t'aime.
(Ces échanges de mots d'amour étaient très rares dans notre famille, Maman avait du mal avec les démonstrations d'émotions)
Je me mis à pleurer et Maman un peu aggacée me dit : Je ne voulais pas çà...
Je me suis réveillée en pleurant dans notre réalité et je n'étais pas bien du tout, très triste...
Mais aussi très reconnaissante pour ces mots d'amour échangés.
Ma Maman me manque vraiment et tellement...
Je n'ai pu me rendormir cherchant le sens de ce rêve qui depuis ne me quitte pas...

mardi 4 septembre, 12:00 (il y a 21 heures)
Réponse Aurélia Egretteau
Peut être avez vous déjà suffisamment remercié votre maman ?
Peut être souhaite t elle que vous puissiez vivre pleinement pour vous ?
Ce ne sont que des suggestions qui me viennent à la lecture de votre e-mail.
En tout cas, je vous remercie pour ces lignes et vos feed-back.



Minutes: 4th meeting of Sunday, 2 September 2018
Hello Aurelia,
As announced I did my 4th session well Sunday, September 2, I went to bed early 6:30 pm, tired, slept well until 11 pm then woke up every hour for 3 hours and could not go back to sleep...
Last night from Monday 3 to Tuesday 4 September at around 5:30 am, so this morning, after sleeping well as usual, a dream with my Mom woke me up, left me sad and uncomfortable until now, this dream is running through my head...
Here it is:
Mom and I were talking on the phone, thanking her for the "milk",
Mom replies that I have already thanked her for the milk....
(Was there anything else I should have thanked her for?)
(Was it the formula, I don't know if my mother breastfed me.

Where was that "ugly"?)
I say to him: I love you, my Little Mommy
(that's what I called him in his lifetime and in death, by the way...)
She answered me: I love you too.

(These exchanges of words of love were very rare in our family, Mom had trouble with emotional demonstrations)
I started crying and Mommy a little overwhelmed said to me: I didn't want that....
I woke up crying in our reality and I was not well at all, very sad...
But also very grateful for these words of love exchanged.
I really miss my Mom and I miss her so much...
I couldn't go back to sleep looking for the meaning of this dream that hasn't left me since...



Tuesday, September 4,
Answer Aurélia Egretteau
Maybe you have already thanked your mother enough?
Maybe she wants you to be able to live fully for yourself?
These are only suggestions that come to me when I read your e-mail.
In any case, I thank you for these lines and your feedback.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

 

[PERLOU]

J'ai refait une séance le jeudi 6 Septembre mais là rien à signaler...
J'en referai une demain lundi 10 et vous tiendrai au courant...
Il me reste 5 séances à faire.

I did a new session on Thursday 6 September but there is nothing to report...
I will do it again tomorrow, Monday 10 and will keep you informed...
I have five more sessions to go.

 

[beetlemaniac]

Where was that "ugly"?)
I say to him: I love you, my Little Mommy
(that's what I called him in his lifetime and in death, by the way...)
She answered me: I love you too.

(These exchanges of words of love were very rare in our family, Mom had trouble with emotional demonstrations)
I started crying and Mommy a little overwhelmed said to me: I didn't want that....
I woke up crying in our reality and I was not well at all, very sad...
But also very grateful for these words of love exchanged.
I really miss my Mom and I miss her so much...
I couldn't go back to sleep looking for the meaning of this dream that hasn't left me since...

Thank you for sharing that Perlou. It was beautiful but sad. I hope you are feeling better now. After all, it is only a dream, your sleep and health are more important.

Merci de partager ce Perlou. C'était beau mais triste. J'espère que tu te sens mieux maintenant. Après tout, ce n'est qu'un rêve, votre sommeil et votre santé sont plus importants.

 

[PERLOU]

Merci bettlemaniac, oui je vais bien maintenant, j'ai fait ce matin ma 6ème séance, j'attends de voir ce que cela va donner...

Thank you bettlemaniac, yes I'm fine now, I did my 6th session this morning, I'm waiting to see what it will bring...

 

[mabar]

Just had my 33rd session. I actually fell asleep for most of the second half of it, which is a first for me. Felt a little groggy after the session, like coming out of a deep sleep, but woke up pretty quickly and feeling more energized now :)
Interesting observation, maybe it's because you feel that by falling asleep you are not engaging with the therapy as much as you could? just a thought! But I would say that if that is the case that it's not an accurate assessment. IMO it doesn't seem to matter what you do while hooked up to the machine, as long as you are comfortable and relaxed. Just my 2 cents :)

Thanks for the observation, Ah, yes ... the situation I see is that, I am way too comfortable and relex that that I go directly -after few nods- to fall asleep, curiosly, I woke up in time it ended or minutes, last time I was not that sure if I was asleep or not, the audio ended and I opened my eyes .... also, at last session, I realized that maybe, is also to the fact that I reached there already being tired, I go after work, and this year had been stressful and tiredsome ... although, I had also noticed that I had not feel that anguished at work related to tasks, cannot say the same realated to insecurity issues ... yet. The street I work, is a streed that is used also for ambulances, police cars, fireman vehicles, to cross down center faster, so just listening to their sounds several times per day, does not help ... perhaps someday I wont noticed them that much, ... sometimes I think they (vehicles) had increased the volume, though ...

To expand on the above, I felt reminded about the Eiriu Eolas thread, where people have been writing over the years about zoning out and wondered, if this was wrong. But it was worked out in the responses and realizations regarding those posts, that zoning out was not so bad as people thought, but actually very useful for other layers of their being that were not directly aware to those experiencing the zoning out.

Maybe something similar occurs in regards to NF: it might work on more subconscious or unconscious parts while the activity related to waking consciousness is 'canceled out' (i.e. due to falling asleep). In that case it could be a good thing, as otherwise such processes might me more interfered with by waking consciousness activity - or couldn't have that working space.

Just another thought

Thanks Learner, ... after pondering about it -the ashamed feeling-, I think is more related to my negative introjection of being/feeling -without foundation-evaluated on the ...performance/behaving ... since I had already acknowledge those facts-as you mentioned- about zoning at EE or falling asleep at the neurofeedback.

 

[Voyageur]

... last time even with different music and fractals, I fall asleep many times, and dreaming for instants and, waking up traying to not do it again, ... and did it again, like being induced to close my eyes and fall asleep and dream and, the problem was that I felt bad, ashamed ...even with the confidence I have to the practictioner ... I do wonder, why then, I feel ashamed to fall asleep?

Interesting observation, maybe it's because you feel that by falling asleep you are not engaging with the therapy as much as you could? just a thought! But I would say that if that is the case that it's not an accurate assessment. IMO it doesn't seem to matter what you do while hooked up to the machine, as long as you are comfortable and relaxed. Just my 2 cents :)

I've tried to ask questions about this with the NO practitioner, and that seems to be the case - even resting/sleeping; no heavy lifting or sports though ;)

It's my understanding that with a lot of the kids, let's say, they are tuned in with their favorite videos or what have you. The key is the distortions via the audible feedback caused from the brain (which is like an awareness deviation trigger) that is working subconsciously with the recorded sounds, whatever those sounds happen to be. You can run some experiments with the system e.g. sound track - out of session and in session.

Probably missing some details, yet this is what I currently understand.