NeuroFeedback, NeurOptimal and Electroencephalography

Hey, I'm reading from the start, I'm currently at page 35 but I came across the following comment so I prefer asking my question now, not for losing the quote.
I'm also deeply interested in how this could help others as well - however this type of thinking comes with it's pitfalls as I could easily fall into fantasies of building a future career based on this technology - which I already seem to be doing.
I'm curious about why you define it as a pitfall ?
I'm asking because I'm also currently thinking about it. I don't know about building a career based on the technology on my side, but why not making it one of my activities to make it more widely available. NeurOptimal seems to be one of the keys that I was searching for in my quest to find a way to free myself and others from limiting patterns.
 
In this post, I'd just like to highlight the importance of the bicycle metaphor I've read or heard somewhere concerning the practice of NeurOptimal. I think it was on The Health&Wellness Show.

I've just called an NO practitioner to schedule my first session and I've been quite surprised by some of her reactions. She's proposing sessions at home and as I found her contact on the ADNF website, I didn't know more about her than the letters of her name and the numbers of her phone. It appeared, then, normal to me to ask her questions in order to know better the unknown person that I'm about to let entering my house.

I'll skip the details for my point being that she answered in a pretty defensive way. She wasn't really understanding why I was asking these questions - one of them was simply, for instance, how many sessions she did on herself. She didn't really want to answer first, until I calmly explained my motives to her. I've also been honest sharing my feelings and observation that for someone who's supposed to accompany people with possible psychological conditions to relax, I found her pretty aggressive towards me.
Along the conversation, she told me that, at the beginning, she was indeed doing a lot of sessions (still without telling how many) and reduced later to once a month.
As I was telling her earlier that I feel like I need some, she then confessed that she, now, also feels like the need to free some time for new sessions to herself.

To give you a better image, she was saying, around the beginning of the talk, that she's normally a discreet person, and later on she described herself as having red hair. I have nothing against people who want to make their hair red, my point is that, afterthought, saying to be discreet and making his/her hair colorful don't logically fit together for me.

The bottom line of all this is that it appears to be possible to do many sessions at the beginning, but if we don't regularly continue to do some as the time goes on (the space in between can differ from person to person), we can lose some effects.

Concerning this, Val Brown was saying that it's like to stop riding a bike for years : We're not as good as we were when riding years later, and, at the same time, it won't take us as much effort to bike again compared to what it took us to learn.

So let's ride regularly enough to apparently keep the evolution in place.


See ya
 
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Hey, I'm reading from the start, I'm currently at page 35 but I came across the following comment so I prefer asking my question now, not for losing the quote.

I'm curious about why you define it as a pitfall ?
I'm asking because I'm also currently thinking about it. I don't know about building a career based on the technology on my side, but why not making it one of my activities to make it more widely available. NeurOptimal seems to be one of the keys that I was searching for in my quest to find a way to free myself and others from limiting patterns.
Hi ELT,

When it comes to making a living, I was told by my practitioner that NeurOptimal really doesn't allow him to pay the bills and it is more of a service he provides to others than anything else. That's probably why I was not too keen on giving into the idea that I could build a career around use of this device. That said, times have changed and maybe there are more people who need this type of therapy to deal with trauma and stresses of daily life.

Good luck on your NO journey and do post about your findings!
 
Among the many different podcasts and videos existing and talking about the concept, this quite recent (May 2022) official video from Val himself sums up all the recurring questions and explain the principle in depth.
 
Happy new year everyone.

Here is my feedback after a 2 month rental of an equipment.
In addition to doing sessions myself, I proposed the technology to my entourage during November and December.

From my side, I have done 70 sessions so far. The first one has been very soothing for me, kind of lifting a weight out of my chest, allowing me to move gently and breath deeply through the day (what I would actually consider as ‘normality’). It was a relief. As it has been said in this thread before, I also felt it was no magic, it was subtle and very present at the same time. The next ones were less marked, still subtle, playing on a deeper level.
For the first month, I decided to do two sessions a day (morning/evening). During the second month was one per day.
From the distance I can take now, I felt that twice per day was more intense in a way, like if I needed more time to process between each. I still decided to keep the rhythm going though, as an opportunity to create friction through intentional suffering. I could feel it.

Roughly, what I noticed was the following :

- 5th session : I noticed fluidity coming back in my ability to play with words while writing messages. Something that dissipated in the past 2 years.

- 10th : I felt an appeasement getting installed, as well as my thoughts, emotions and thus body being put back in order.

- 15/16th : Some cracking around the neck and shoulders.

- 18-21 : A bit ‘down’ here. Heavier heart/belly pain/solar plexus pressure. The battle continued.

- 34 : It kind of got better very deeply. Like if my conscious mind could barely perceive it.
- 38 : Installing seriously it seemed.

- 42 : ‘Down’

- 44 : ‘Up’

- 48 : Without making any interpretation, I noticed that the 0 Hz base on the chart balanced itself during the session, while previously mostly operating on the left brain part.

- Since approximately the 60th : (+ reading the Emotion Regulation/External Considering/Self Observation threads)
I definitely feel like I’m more able to observe mySelf, separating the wheat from the chaff, noticing the little ‘I’s’ from my emotions and thoughts and observing the decision taken by what could be the real I after having listened to their message. No control seems to have its place over I, whereas the observing standpoint seems indeed to be the most appropriate stance (if not the unique one) in connection with I to manifest the right brain creative force (i.e. Non-Anticipation).
I also notice a better ability to say ‘no’ properly and set boundaries, still respecting external considering as best as possible, which allows me to keep working on it.


As said above, I could propose sessions to 10 persons beside.

- Female, 40yo, diagnosed with Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, 2 sessions :
She came for the first one after a working day, she was crying and her face was showing exhaustion. After the session (during which she fell asleep), she was smiling and relaxed.
She sent me a text later to express her surprise when she noticed how able she has been to keep her calm and rationality during a heavy conversation with her soon-to-be ex-husband, on the very night following the session.

- Female, 40yo, 4 sessions, 1/week :
She noticed a better ability to step back in a specific emotional situation and not reacting directly.

- Female, 20yo, 5 sessions, 1/day :
Nothing special has been noticed.

- Female, Chronic Depressive, 35yo, 5 sessions 2/week :
It impacted her behaviors and emotions, she noticed that her hyperactivity disappeared.

- Male, 55yo, 6 sessions, 1/day :
Nothing special has been noticed.

- Male, 35yo, 8 sessions, 2/week :
Sleep has been improved, as well as his attention and his ability to structure/organize.

- Male, Parkinson’s disease, 80+yo, 9 sessions, 1/day :
Both him and his wife didn’t notice any change, yet I have the impression that his diction improved.

- Female, 55yo, 11 sessions, 1/day :
Although she kept saying that she didn’t feel or see any change, it seemed to be connected to expectations she had about certain points. When we looked at the common preoccupations list she filled at the begining, we found out that her difficulty to fall asleep, her tendency to wake up during the nights and her bellyaches have been impacted.

- Female, 60yo, 12 sessions, 1/day :
During her first session, she has felt special sensations at her upper-chest, throat and forehead points. During the training, she experienced flashbacks of traumatizing events she thought she had fixed and unexpected dreams. In the end, she was less losing her hair, had less bloating and had a bit less of painful points.

- Female, 80+yo, 13 sessions, 1/day :
After her first session, she felt a weight being lifted up from her. Later in that day, she repeated twice how good she felt. In the end, she reported being less tired, sleeping better, having less night terrors, less difficulty to retain her bladder, less constipation, less balance problems and less excessive feeding.
She told me 2 days after the end that she had been feeling very good for the past week, « as good as before ».
 
I still have the NeurOptimal equipment in possession until January 10th. I’m located near Cannes, France, and I’m open to propose the network in the area some sessions on donations. I know there are some conditions for forum members to meet in real life, can you remind me of them please ?

The proposition is made to allow those who feel to have ‘booster’ sessions until I give the technology back to its owner.

Thank you for having made me discover this approach.
 
Glad to hear the neuro machine has helped you and others ELT. It really is a great piece of equipment!

As for offering sessions to others, since you only have it for one more week, it's probably a bit short notice, and we tend to keep such collaboration for FOTCM members. In addition, there are quite a few neuroptimal practitioners in France. Also, we have a machine here and FOTCM members in the area or in France (or further afield) are aware that it available for them to use. That said, your report is a good opportunity for any open forum member to look into neuroptimal if their area if they would like to try it.
 
Reading the C’s transcripts, I stumbled upon biofeedback. I’d been interested in it for a very long time, and I feel the time has come to try it out.

I checked NeurOptimal, and it’s beyond my budget atm.

I would’ve just purchased a smaller one line, but I’m a bit weary about… wearing, a bluetooth tech headband that feeds it to an app on a big-tech phone.

So, anybody got an sort of biofeedback equipments they’ve tried out, or recommend , or trust for a specific reason?

(If this should be posted somewhere else, or if it was posted before, just lemme know)
 
Hi Dovana, have you looked into renting rather than purchasing NeurOptimal?
Just saw they have a 90$/month option.
That’s much easier access for me than purchasing. I even wonder why it’s so much cheaper this way.

Anyways, this looks quite good. Now I have to find out if it’s worth the investment! Will dig a bit deeper.

I also assume from you mentioning the renting option that you really think NeurOptimal is hard to top, compared to other devices?
 
Cool! Will take a look

I have a Scenar. Also cool.

It has a miracle feature: When the electrode is moved over the skin during a scan it stops and sticks to the skin until the feedback is up to its satisfaction.

I bought this device through a friend directly from Russia. He used it to alleviate some back problems and was satisfied with it. I only have a basic manual and do not know its real capacity. For treatments of shoulder and back it is better to have assistance from a second person.
 

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