New book: American Heart of Darkness

[Aithin Tusa Fein]

Re: New book: American Heart of Darkness - Obama's War Against the Weak

Robert Kirkconnell, I do not mean to come off as targeting you work, but I study history myself and, like any peer review journal, I appreciate your work, but I do have critical input to what you put forth.

Americans do not look at humanity as “we” but see it as “them” and “us,” or more accurately “them against us” and “us against them.” It is inconceivable to most Americans that most Arabs and Muslims admire the United States and would love to have good relations with it, or at least used to.

Although, what you said is true, not all Americans see it that way.

True and in my mind something obvious enough. It is common practice in various disciplines to take a statistically representative population, study that population and arrive at inferences which are generally true. When a pot of water is boiled, not every water molecule undergoes a change of state to steam at 100C. Some molecules stay as water while some change state. Yet 100C is regarded as the boiling point of water under atmospheric pressure.

Similar considerations hold true for the so-called "soft sciences" disciplines. It is logical and admissible for Robert to state what he has about the general characteristics of the current American population.

So what you are providing Críostóir is not really critical input imo. You are doing the classical "yes, but ......." routine. Usually "yes, but....." is motivated by an inner state of denial about some aspect of reality - or lying to oneself.

[quote author=Críostóir]

Plus, most nations and other groups for that matter "do not look at humanity as “we” but see it as “them” and “us,” or more accurately “them against us” and “us against them.”" It is not 'just' an American phenomenon.

Again true and obvious enough. What exactly does "hey, many americans are ponerized - but others are ponerized too" go on to show? This would be a typical argumentative tactic of minimizing the effect of one's actions and avoiding responsibility. It is used by pathologicals as well as normal people. In the latter case, it is sometimes a ploy for avoiding the feeling of the terror of the situation, instead keeping the argument confined to the intellectual arena.

More of the same in the rest of your post Críostóir - at least that is how I see it.
[/quote]

Okay, obyvatel, I agree with you that those comments that I wrote were obvious. And maybe, or probably, I should say, Robert Kirkconnell thinks so too. But, since he is a writer of history and is publishing books, and seems to appreciate input of all kinds, I am giving him my 'critical input' on this forum so that he may avoid certain pitfalls with his readership that may not think that those things were so obvious. I think he has done a good job already, but I also think that if I express my input, he may take that into account with all of the other input he receives and thus he may be enabled to make informed choices in his future writings. This forum is where people write something and others comment on it. And to my reckoning, that is probably why he is posting in the first place. It seems like he is taking his views for a test drive and since it has to do with history, which is something that I like, well then, if I have the time, I will try to accommodate him. Perhaps, he will disagree with my input entirely and perhaps he is already aware of all the things that I have brought up. But, perhaps he might, just might, take my arguments and with them, strengthen his own arguments by disproving mine, and thus possibly increase his readership and book sales, or better yet, get closer to the truth. In either case, I thought that I should bring it up. From my point of view, he is marketing his book to a largely US, English-speaking consumer base, but I could be wrong. Some American readers might think he is lumping all Americans into one stereotype and blaming them for things that they did not do, which they could find insulting and might not recommend his book to friends. But, if that were the case, and he removed that little hang up, then he might avoid insulting and increase his recommendations, readership and book sales. Now, he may have specific reasons for writing the way he does, but I don't know. But I think that if I bring those things up, he may take them into consideration. Now maybe all of that was not obvious to you. I did not explain my intentions and reasoning in my post and I can understand why that would be confusing. Therefore, I apologize for the confusion. As to the rest of your post, it looks like you put some thought into it and I thank you for your concern for my inner state and the time you put into writing it.

 

[Aithin Tusa Fein]

I should mention the fact that I spend sometimes 8 to 10 hours a day reading academic works and have done so for many years. Relying on academic conclusions is problematical if you can't check their raw data. So the "academic conclusions" argument doesn't fly.

Thank you. I have seen the video already. So you like to read academic works too. Well we have that in common. As far as the checking of the raw data, to which part were you referring to? I am sorry, but I do not have the luxury to travel to the National Archives in Washington DC, the Vatican in Rome, or other museums in order to read the handwritten notes, letters and other texts from which much of this "raw data" is comprised. Therefore, I will have to rely on what I can purchase and obtain from where I am at. And until I can look at the original documents and verify that they say what authors say that they say, I will have base my conclusion on the information that is available to me. And the same goes for archaeological information. That may not fly with you but it is the best that I can do at the present. Now, as to the population of Native Americans before 1429, there is very little information to base any of those numbers on, experts do not agree and those numbers are varied and based on different theories. You are looking at about a few million to fifty million.

I have already read David E. Stannard's "American Holocaust: The Conquest of the New World," although I don't have my notes in front of me, they are packed away somewhere, from what I recall of the book was his description of the Holocaust of mainly the Caribbean, Central and South American Indians by the Spanish. Which I agree with. He also pointed out, if I recall correctly, that this stemmed from a sense of Christian superiority, or something to that effect, which he paralleled to Nazi ideology and their treatment of the Jews. Which, again, I agree with. If I remember correctly, he also supported the disease theory, which I also agree with. But that was not what I was referring to concerning genocide. What I was referring to was what happened in North America. I wrote:

Although there was killing and atrocities on both sides of the conflicts involving Native Americans and European colonists in North America prior to the Civil War, I do not think that the evidence supports labeling it as genocide in the same ball park as what was done post Civil War in the American West.

What Stannard wrote that I do not agree with, if I remember correctly, was that the collective deaths and treatment of all the Native Americans by all the Europeans was a holocaust. But hey, if you want to view it that way, be my guest. But, i'm sorry, but the French were generally good to the Native Americans and a lot of the British colonist were too, look at the Quakers. Although some enslavement of the Native Americans took place in the British colonies, white enslavement by Native Americans took place as well, but what happened in the North with the French and British was nothing like what happened in the Spanish colonies, which was quite atrocious. Although atrocities happened on both sides in the North, the power was initially, largely in the hands of the Native Americans who played the British and the French, and this situation continued in varying degrees until after the French and Indian War where the positions became some what balanced, but without the French as a counter weight the position of the Native Americans diminished rapidly until the American Revolution where the situation became asymmetrical against the Native Americans. And unfortunately, many of the Native Americans sided with the British against the United States. After the Revolutionary War with the British was over, the Native American Wars with the United States would continue, eventually leading up to, arguably, the worst atrocity against the Native Americans in the North, which was the removal of the Native American tribes from the East and their relocation in the West.

But, what happened after the Civil War was a documented continuation of genocidal policies on the Native Americans in the West that began with the American Southerners in the Civil War and was even executed by some of the same people, i.e. Sherman and Sheridan. Many of the tribes in Indian Territory (modern Oklahoma) had sided with the Confederacy and after the war, the US pretty much voided previous treaties and devastated and occupied their land. What I was referring to was that what happened after the Civil War was larger, directed and systematic genocide, which was different from the wars and atrocities that occurred before. The reason that I would not generally call what happened before the Civil War a genocide, is because the Native Americans committed the same atrocities against the colonists, Trail of Tears notwithstanding, and there was a lot of that kind of reciprocity going on at the time. Keep in mind, I am referring to only North America, specifically where it concerned the British colonies that became the United States.

 

[Laura]

So you like to read academic works too. Well we have that in common.

You write that as though you weren't aware. Let me ask you, how many of my books have you read?

 

[Joe]

Re: New book: American Heart of Darkness - Obama's War Against the Weak

Unless you are referring to something else, the mainstream academic consensus is that the German government rounded up the Jews in most of the German controlled areas, then transported them to labor camps and eventually death camps where they were systematically executed, largely in poisonous gas chambers.

You are probably aware that there are questions over this depiction of events, perhaps not in the magnitude of deaths, but in the systematic and super-consciously intentional nature of it. Historically, many people have died in such conditions as a result of neglect rather than from deliberate and methodical extermination, although that undoubtedly happened also.

 

[Aithin Tusa Fein]

So you like to read academic works too. Well we have that in common.

You write that as though you weren't aware. Let me ask you, how many of my books have you read?

No, I was aware. I believe I have read all of your books. In fact I think it was in "Comets and the Horns of Moses" that you expressed something to that effect. Well in any case, I remember reading that you thought others would find them dry, but you actually enjoyed the, or something to that effect. Which I can understand, because I enjoy reading them too.

 

[Aithin Tusa Fein]

Re: New book: American Heart of Darkness - Obama's War Against the Weak

Unless you are referring to something else, the mainstream academic consensus is that the German government rounded up the Jews in most of the German controlled areas, then transported them to labor camps and eventually death camps where they were systematically executed, largely in poisonous gas chambers.

You are probably aware that there are questions over this depiction of events, perhaps not in the magnitude of deaths, but in the systematic and super-consciously intentional nature of it. Historically, many people have died in such conditions as a result of neglect rather than from deliberate and methodical extermination, although that undoubtedly happened also.

Perceval, you seem like you have a point, but I'm not so sure that I understand what it is yet. Could you elaborate please?

 

[Laura]

So you like to read academic works too. Well we have that in common.

You write that as though you weren't aware. Let me ask you, how many of my books have you read?

No, I was aware. I believe I have read all of your books. In fact I think it was in "Comets and the Horns of Moses" that you expressed something to that effect. Well in any case, I remember reading that you thought others would find them dry, but you actually enjoyed the, or something to that effect. Which I can understand, because I enjoy reading them too.

Then you understand that you not only have to read a LOT of academic books and papers, and also get your hands on original materials on which those works are based, and often even get fresh translations from people you trust in order to tease out the probable truth. You also have to understand that academics are as plagued by psychopathology as any other sample of the population, and in some cases, even moreso - and that has to be taken into account. You have to find the line of force, the agendas that may be behind the academics, as in the fact that they usually serve political agendas. And sometimes you just have to acknowledge that they lie and lie very well, because they are conditioned to do so. They often don't even know they are lying because of automatic subconscious selection and substitution, i.e. the conflict between System 1 and System 2, in Kahneman's terminology.

Thankfully, I'm in a fairly unique position: I have no "position" or "credentials" to protect, and still I have a whole team of helpers, many of them in academic positions, who can obtain the materials for me, translate, search out the clues, etc. Being a practical person, I look for "the spirit" of the thing, not the "letter of the law." For me, the essence of the genocide of the Native Americans can be rather clearly seen through the smoke and mirrors of the self-justifying exceptionalism of the US mentality. It reminds me of Jesus diatribe in Matthew 23:

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you swallow up widows' houses and for a pretense to cover it up make long prayers; therefore you will receive the greater condemnation and the heavier sentence.

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you travel over sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes one [a proselyte], you make him doubly as much a child of hell as you are.

Woe to you, blind guides, who say, If anyone swears by the sanctuary of the temple, it is nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the sanctuary, he is a debtor [bound by his oath]. You blind fools! For which is greater: the gold, or the sanctuary of the temple that has made the gold sacred? You say too, Whoever swears by the altar is not duty bound; but whoever swears by the offering on the altar, his oath is binding. You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar which makes the gift sacred? So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. And he who swears by the sanctuary of the temple swears by it and by Him Who dwells in it. ... {Nitpicking}

You blind guides, filtering out a gnat and gulping down a camel!

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the plate, but within they are full of extortion (prey, spoil, plunder) and grasping self-indulgence. ...

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you are like tombs that have been whitewashed, which look beautiful on the outside but inside are full of dead men's bones and everything impure. Just so, you also outwardly seem to people to be just and upright but inside you are full of pretense and lawlessness and iniquity.

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you build tombs for the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, Saying, If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have aided them in shedding the blood of the prophets.
Thus you are testifying against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' sins to the brim. You serpents! You spawn of vipers! How can you escape the penalty to be suffered in hell?

 

[Aithin Tusa Fein]

Then you understand that you not only have to read a LOT of academic books and papers, and also get your hands on original materials on which those works are based, and often even get fresh translations from people you trust in order to tease out the probable truth. You also have to understand that academics are as plagued by psychopathology as any other sample of the population, and in some cases, even moreso - and that has to be taken into account. You have to find the line of force, the agendas that may be behind the academics, as in the fact that they usually serve political agendas. And sometimes you just have to acknowledge that they lie and lie very well, because they are conditioned to do so. They often don't even know they are lying because of automatic subconscious selection and substitution, i.e. the conflict between System 1 and System 2, in Kahneman's terminology.

Thank you for your helpful advice. I will continue to do the best that I can.

Thankfully, I'm in a fairly unique position: I have no "position" or "credentials" to protect, and still I have a whole team of helpers, many of them in academic positions, who can obtain the materials for me, translate, search out the clues, etc. Being a practical person, I look for "the spirit" of the thing, not the "letter of the law." For me, the essence of the genocide of the Native Americans can be rather clearly seen through the smoke and mirrors of the self-justifying exceptionalism of the US mentality. It reminds me of Jesus diatribe in Matthew 23:

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you swallow up widows' houses and for a pretense to cover it up make long prayers; therefore you will receive the greater condemnation and the heavier sentence.

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you travel over sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes one [a proselyte], you make him doubly as much a child of hell as you are.

Woe to you, blind guides, who say, If anyone swears by the sanctuary of the temple, it is nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the sanctuary, he is a debtor [bound by his oath]. You blind fools! For which is greater: the gold, or the sanctuary of the temple that has made the gold sacred? You say too, Whoever swears by the altar is not duty bound; but whoever swears by the offering on the altar, his oath is binding. You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar which makes the gift sacred? So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. And he who swears by the sanctuary of the temple swears by it and by Him Who dwells in it. ... {Nitpicking}

You blind guides, filtering out a gnat and gulping down a camel!

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the plate, but within they are full of extortion (prey, spoil, plunder) and grasping self-indulgence. ...

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you are like tombs that have been whitewashed, which look beautiful on the outside but inside are full of dead men's bones and everything impure. Just so, you also outwardly seem to people to be just and upright but inside you are full of pretense and lawlessness and iniquity.

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you build tombs for the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, Saying, If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have aided them in shedding the blood of the prophets.
Thus you are testifying against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' sins to the brim. You serpents! You spawn of vipers! How can you escape the penalty to be suffered in hell?

I also have no ""position" or "credentials" to protect" and I also consider myself a practical person. But, since we're sharing opinions, for me, "the essence of the genocide of the Native Americans can" ALSO "be rather clearly seen through the smoke and mirrors of the" self-righteous defending their own ideology against all facts. So I agree you have to be careful with academics and their research. And it reminds me of some of the things Paul said. First form I Corinthians 1:27-29 (KJV):

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

That no flesh should glory in his presence.

And in I Corinthians 2:9-16 (KJV):

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

And in I Corinthians 3: 18-20 (KJV):

Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

 

[Robert Kirkconnell]

I want to thank Criostoir for your questions. You have generated a lot of thought and discussion here, and I do appreciate your input, really, really I do. I also want to thank everyone for your input, and especially the video Laura posted. It illustrates the untold story of America that is virtually missing from the national discussion. I did not know it was available.

Obviously, we do not all see things the same way and this reminds me of something. I have a dear brother whom I love very much. The guy is incredible. He is really big, 6'7", a full university professor, Ph.D. in microbiology, loves people, very active and animated, and just a wonderful, brilliant human being. As close as we are, he and I can read something and come to exactly opposite conclusions. There have been times that we have argued for hours, days, and even years and still disagree. There are also times that it gets loud, very loud. One of these areas is the American genocide and specifically small pox.... I don't think we will ever agree on this and this has caused me to ponder as to -- why? I think that we have totally different ways of processing information and coming to conclusions, and the only way I can explain this is that he is left-brain and I am right-brain. Now, I know these terms are out of vogue now, but I can tell you that I took a self feedback instrument one time that said I was extreme right brain and then characterized exactly how these people (in this case me) think and act. It was me to a "T." It also explained how left brain and right brain people have trouble communicating and it was exactly how my brother and I "go 'round and 'round."

In these discussions here I think something like this is going on. I think in concepts and so I am always looking for the "why." This drives left brain people nuts, like my brother for instance. My book was many years of research into "why" which is why it covers so much ground -- e.g. this resulted in this, because of this, and so is related to this....ad-infinitum. It is a right brain book and right brain people are a minority of the population. I am not sure of this, but I would guess that we just might have a disproportionate number of right brain people here in this forum. I think in the general population you have about one in seven people that are right brain.

Yes Criostoir, I am very familiar with your positions. I have argued them with my brother for a very loooog time! They are almost identical, and I also get the same reactions from audiences when doing book signings. When addressing audiences I have to be careful to go slowly from familiar to unfamiliar and ask rhetorical questions to open up areas they are not used to thinking about. I want to get them to ponder things that they never have before and then leave them with the option to get my book. It just doesn't work to try for me to fully explain things. They won't believe me anyway. I also have to keep in mind that I have a nitch market at this point. There will not be wide spread appeal for really bad news, although that time might come, soon. Also, I could not write thinking about what would sell. If I was thinking like that it would not have come out the way it did and would have blended in with all the other garbage that clowns like O'reilly are putting out.

You have read a lot and I thank you for reading my book. I do have one book I would like to suggest and that is -- Facing West: the Metaphysics of Indian-Hating and Empire-Building. In my mind, this book settles the question of genocide before and after the Civil War.

 

[Aithin Tusa Fein]

I want to thank Criostoir for your questions. You have generated a lot of thought and discussion here, and I do appreciate your input, really, really I do.

You're welcome.

In these discussions here I think something like this is going on. I think in concepts and so I am always looking for the "why." This drives left brain people nuts, like my brother for instance. My book was many years of research into "why" which is why it covers so much ground -- e.g. this resulted in this, because of this, and so is related to this....ad-infinitum. It is a right brain book and right brain people are a minority of the population. I am not sure of this, but I would guess that we just might have a disproportionate number of right brain people here in this forum. I think in the general population you have about one in seven people that are right brain.

Yes Criostoir, I am very familiar with your positions. I have argued them with my brother for a very loooog time! They are almost identical, and I also get the same reactions from audiences when doing book signings. When addressing audiences I have to be careful to go slowly from familiar to unfamiliar and ask rhetorical questions to open up areas they are not used to thinking about. I want to get them to ponder things that they never have before and then leave them with the option to get my book. It just doesn't work to try for me to fully explain things. They won't believe me anyway. I also have to keep in mind that I have a nitch market at this point. There will not be wide spread appeal for really bad news, although that time might come, soon. Also, I could not write thinking about what would sell. If I was thinking like that it would not have come out the way it did and would have blended in with all the other garbage that clowns like O'reilly are putting out.

You have read a lot and I thank you for reading my book. I do have one book I would like to suggest and that is -- Facing West: the Metaphysics of Indian-Hating and Empire-Building. In my mind, this book settles the question of genocide before and after the Civil War.

Well, I'm glad you have found a nitch market and I hope it all goes well for you. I will add "Facing West: the Metaphysics of Indian-Hating and Empire-Building" to my reading list along with "Corruption of Reality," "Escape From Evil," and "The Crowd." Thank you and Laura for your book recommendations, I will check them out when I can.

 

[Robert Kirkconnell]

I don't see a nitch market as an end in itself. My objective is get the message in my book, and others, out to people who are ready to go in a different direction than where we are headed right now. I am also convinced that those who are incapable of seeing the direction in which we are headed should be left behind. The vacuum left by those of us moving ahead will eventually carry them forward. I don't want to try to "change their opinion" right now, because they are simply not ready yet. I listen carefully to what they say because it gives me ideas, such as subjects to write or talk about. Further, in the case of Americans this keeps me in touch with how out-of-touch main-stream America really is. It is profound and could be arguably considered delusional. Something is seriously wrong with a people who time after time fall for the same lies -- war after war justified by "fighting terrorism" and "having to free people" at the point of a gun and a long list of rationalizations, over and over again and most, but not all, keep falling for this!

Political Ponerology, which I referred to several times, called this public "hysteria" and gave several examples of how this happens. If a system seems to be working for someone they will tend to believe what the system is telling them, no matter how removed from reality that information is. We are at this place right now. We have a pathological empire that is destroying the world right in front of our eyes and most cannot see this. This goes beyond denial and enters the realm of pathology, a situation that none of us can stop. We can, however, influence those that know something is very wrong and are willing to look at how this happened and why it cannot continue.

Not only am I getting more and more traction with my book, but I also notice that Political Ponerology is also doing the same. When the book first came out there were few reviews listed for it, in fact I did not see it on Amazon at all. Last I checked there were 88 reviews and most of them, 67, five star! The fact that there are some lower ratings, not many, attests to the fact that the book has "gotten legs" so to speak. There are also other related book that are doing well. This means that the word is getting out and people are catching on and is very encouraging!

 

[happyliza]

Robert Kirkconnell:

I am also convinced that those who are incapable of seeing the direction in which we are headed should be left behind. The vacuum left by those of us moving ahead will eventually carry them forward. I don't want to try to "change their opinion" right now, because they are simply not ready yet. I listen carefully to what they say because it gives me ideas, such as subjects to write or talk about.

Thank you Robert for this succinct reminder that we can and should learn from everyone. It is imperative that we learn not only from those wiser but also from those that have yet to learn in order to know 'how' re rephrase, question, and understand their 'misunderstandings' so that we can better help and 'educate' them. There may well be many that misunderstand for many reasons not only due to their evolutionary level, but for situations they are in or, I believe, in many cases, for following the wrong 'god'. Who are we to 'judge' when the whole point of lifting people up from behind us is to find the common demoninator than can cross this divide. It is not they who are the problem but our lack as 'educators' in finding this common link that can connect these people, if only we are willing to find a way. This way we can help many many more.

Obviously there are so many 'stick in the muds' but we were once learner drivers too. We all have to go the same route in the end - this is why learning is fun. BUT what can happen is that people, (and I put my hand up here too) tend to teach/preach to the easier converted!

There is a way, as you mentioned, in observing and listening and formulating questions in such a way that they are not undermining the person but helping you determine how you can re-frame your questions and aim/goals to help these people participate at THEIR level and yet at the same time, educate yourself in how to leave them with a few choice thoughts to help them on their way or increase their curiosity, find out where their 'soul' operates from and give them a few hints to the the next level ( ie a potential seeker) OR LEAVE THEM better and more confident with the information they hold but with a pointer to the next resource.

We are all different in this respect due to our different 'upbringings' and 'cultures' among a few things. But realistically a ture STO person does not preach but instills the DESIRE to know more about certain things/subjects, until their next 'teacher' comes along or they choose to simultaneously do some research, inner questioning themselves.

This is how I learned to be here today. There is no mistaking that when the pupil is ready the teacher will appear. or knock and ask and the door will be opened. I am witness to this in my life and found it one CONTINUOUS experience right up until now! This is true of the universe and it has never failed me.

On another note I am now finding, having seriously been researching the Laws of 3 and 7 of the universe(and I am still sifting all info, but physically writing down all I find), that in the past week EVERY day a new person has come into my life (because i decided to understand the triad and be more proactive and went out to 'do' more of whatever it takes). And each of there people have been a signpost for me and pointed me in a positive direction, with no prompting, other than they picked up on my predicament purely from social cues, and recommended something or somebody to me (which I duly followed up, plus more 'ideas' that suddenly came my way to help myself too) Don't get me wrong i was never sitting on my laurels over the last 4 years but suddenly i feel the universe and I are in sync and the 'block', self imposed or otherwise is being lifted, encouraging me more in the process, of course.

Now this could have been a prolonged 'interval' and maybe so BUT it required renewed vigour and a different/renewed insight.

Now sorry for such a long winded, but personal example, of the importance of Robert's quote. BUT for me I picked up personally how I had missed totally on the way he was empathizing with 'learners' or those temporarily diverted from seeking/ or the necessary curiosity that leads to seeking from the usual accidents/happenings/drudgeries of life. These people were US too! We are all learners.

We talk about people's reactions to what we say but 50% or more of the time itis HOW we say it. Because we DON'T empathize at their level!

Thank you Robert for this very timely and very important reminder. We are ALL one. Well less 6 - 10% of us remembering the title of your book! So easy for us to forget this.

Analogy: Never sit on an empty seat and leave it without a better energy than when you sat down on it!

I admit what I have mentioned above relates 100% to ME too. But I could see my lack in what you explained. We live IN this world yet subtlety in this respect is not my forte and it is something I am NOW aware of. I am not saying we don't do this but can be more aware of HOW we come across.How you get through these 'barriers', and anything else that you have learned in this respect.

I would be very grateful if you could give me some examples about 'breaking the ice' and how you manage to get through these 'barriers' as well as the kind of open ended questions you may ask in order to bring people out to speak without their inner defences coming to the fore, thus alienating the conversations

I have gathered from our forum that this is a major obstacle for people here, myself included, and that we are possibly excluding or alienating, many more people, inadvertently, that we could otherwise, not only learn from ourselves but help , even in a small way, rather than 'blame' condemn' misunderstand or otherwise.

Also this is not about left/right brain stuff ( though I do still think there is something about this, but maybe not so 'simple') but more about relating to others in a different way, maybe being more' patient' with them, more empathic with fellow humans on our planet. OR more realistically reminding ourselves to come down from some unconscious 'pedestal' or equivalent that we have created for ourselves?

I feel that you have just highlighted a huge gap concerning communication, that despite this, all there is are vague references which easily get side-tracked in daily life due to' buffers', self calming etc.

I value all feedback, maybe in a different thread? Because maybe I/some have been blind to how we can extend our reach/communication in helping others. FWIW and IMHO.

 

[Robert Kirkconnell]

Thank you Liza for your kind and insightful comments. I notice that you live in Cyprus so I know that you are no stranger to conflict and the struggle to understand people. I would say that Vietnam was the most formative experience for me, and the source of my "baptism by fire" into the "American Heart of Darkness." It sent me on a life-long search for reality both outside and inside my sense of being. Part of this journey I wrote about on page 20 of my book. Mike Levine and I were part of an investigation into using bodies out of Vietnam to smuggle heroin into the U.S. The results of this, and where it led, sent both of us on a lifelong quest for answers to imponderable questions. Mike is the author of Deep Cover, The Big White Lie and several other outstanding books that illustrate his journey. Below might shed some light on where I am at now and how I got there. Obviously I have struggled with my own delusions. Thanks again.

Reflections
It goes further than that. When we as humans are confronted with information that is threatening to our fundamental belief systems, most of the time we simply disregard it. Psychologists call this “cognitive dissonance.” It is just easier to reject inconvenient information, no matter how true it is, than to go to all the trouble to rethink and restructure our belief systems; and it does not matter how smart you are. I know this feeling. This cognitive dissonance has lingered with me for all these years, and even today, I sometimes find it difficult to see things with my mind’s eye that are not emotionally safe, but I just cannot leave information alone that I cannot make sense out of. It just bounces around in my head until I figure it out. I just have nowhere to put it, so it just keeps buzzing in my head. I sensed that Mike Levine was also wired like this.
I have found that there are many people like this, but certainly they are not the norm. This book is filled with people that have a keen intellect, uncommon analytical skills, and the character to rise up against injustice. I deeply admire Mike Levine and people like him; they are a special gift to the world. In my search for some of the answers to the body bag case, I have found many people who are a gift to humanity. Their courage is almost beyond belief, and they are rarely rewarded. Actually, they are often criticized, scorned, vilified; and sometimes, even worse things happen to them.
Another barrier to processing threatening information is the fact that you have to come to terms with cold reality. Eventually, you have to face the fact that your “service” to the country was an illusion. You have devoted your life, and sometimes risked it, for something that never existed. Further, that all the Americans that died in Vietnam gave their lives for naught; that the Cold War was a bill-of-goods. Basically, one has to come to terms with the reality that for most of your adult life, you were a chump. Although this is difficult, I would rather be a chump for most of my life than spend my whole existence as one. I sensed that Mike also felt this way.

 

[happyliza]

Thanks for sharing 'Reflections'. I can barely imagine what it must have been like in Vietnam in reality for the locals and those sent in to fight someone else's war. Totally horrific. Re the body bags I am sure they are still up to this ploy even today.

Fortunately I was not in Cyprus at the time of the massacres but I listen to the traumatic stories equally horrific and tragic for all those on this island of 'love'

Now to cap it all we will have the pleasure of a visit next week from Biden and one week later Kerry. Not good news for any country they have their sights on, especially where gas and oil are concerned.

 

[Robert Kirkconnell]

I am not sure, Happylisa, that what I gave you was what you were asking from me. Your questions also reminded me of the emotional journey that led to the "American Heart of Darkness." It seems to me now that, for boys anyway, growing up in America was mostly about training us to be solders, teaching us to deny our natural feelings, teach us to hate, and teach us who to hate. There is growing evidence that human beings are naturally born with the emotional "wiring" for love, compassion, empathy, affection, and so forth. To make haters and killers out of us there had to be much effort put into conditioning and shaping our behavior, because this is exactly the opposite of what we are born with.
Certainly there are those who would disagree with me, however, I am confident that I am right. It has taken me many, many years to come to these conclusions and deal with the "hungry ghosts" that have been imposed on me and the rest of my generation. We were carefully taught that violence was a good thing when used for the "right" cause. The best way to deal with "bad people" was to beat them up or kill them. If you are the strongest, you have the right to bully others. Might makes right. The strong survive and the weak die. And especially for boys, showing emotions other than anger is a sign of weakness and vulnerability. We were also taught to ignore pain, whether physical or emotional. I am sure other generations were raised in a similar fashion, but I can only attest to what I experienced.
I think that most of us didn’t see ourselves as having lived up to the expectations of society, but saw others as having done so. We compared our insides to others outsides. At reunions most of my classmates describe themselves as not “fitting in” during our school years. Maybe none of us did fit in and we all were faking it. And maybe we all left high school feeling that we had not lived up to expectations, had failed in becoming “a man,” and largely saw ourselves as inadequate. Perhaps we went into the world thinking that we still had to get it right and prove ourselves.
To suppress natural emotions that make us human is very destructive, and as I look back on who “made it” and who didn’t I see a pattern. Most all of us ran into trouble in our lives in the forms of alcohol, drugs, gambling, relationship problems, etc. Most of us that survived self-destructiveness did so by having to take inventory of ourselves and acknowledge that something was wrong with all of this. We had to make a decision to get in touch with ourselves and find ways to do that. Being a raging alcoholic and having come to the conclusion that I would be six feet under in the near future if something did not change, I entered a twelve-step program. This was at the ripe old age of 26, and I have worked this program for the last 40 years. I also started practicing Zen Buddhism, going to college nights, raising my kids, being a husband, doing volunteer work, etc.
My journey was similar to my other classmates that have survived, and I think most of us have come to a place where we found that we had to be honest with ourselves before we could be honest with others. We found that we had to get back in touch with the emotions and feelings that we were born with in the first place. Life became easier when we could simply admit when we were wrong and move on. And most of all we discovered that life was not only fascinating but also fun when we were in touch with ourselves.
My generation paid a high cost for having to become imperial storm troopers and the like, and I think the Vietnam vets paid the highest cost of all. Very few of my classmates that fought the war are left alive, and when I look at figures like 18 vets, of all U.S. wars, commit suicide each and every day, I tend to think that all recent generations have gone through the same thing. It is astounding to me that this seems to go on and on without end. I suppose that that is one of the reasons I wrote about the “American Heart of Darkness” and why I participate in demonstrations, write public officials and whatever else I can think of to do. This has got to stop.