Non duality

Again, you’re ignoring very specific and iterative C’s statements to the contrary. As a result, you end up sounding like a defender of “veil” and “3D thinking”. I don’t mean that I’ve overcome the veil and 3D thinking, I just say we’re very clearly encouraged to do so.
Not really, I am not defending it, I am merely accepting the fact that the veil is there for a reason. I think that the C's speaking of the possibility of transcending 3D thinking, isn't so much a "meant" but more of a "could" as it is a choice each individual could make.

Let me put it this way perhaps, if we part from the notion that this veil which separates our awareness of higher realities is an obstacle, and that we COULD overcome it, and in doing so we learn and free ourselves from certain notions, then this veil isn't objectively negative nor positive, this veil is what a consciousness unit such as ourselves, needs to struggle against in order to learn, this veil is thus necessary. If it weren't there, then no struggle could take place, and no learning would ensue. As you see, understanding that fact isn't the same as defending it.

But then there's all those soul units graduating up from 2D to 3D, the veil is there for them as well. When you think about it in broader terms, beyond our human experience, that veil exists and it has a purpose. You could say it's a negative purpose if you look at it from wanting souls to overcome it, but it could be positive if you see it as the one struggle that will allow those souls to overcome it. Does that make sense?

It's more of an acknowledgement of "I know why this veil is there, and why all that choose to overcome it, need it to exist". Very different. For instance, learning how to swim requires you to be afraid of drowning, so you have the impulse to swim, recognizing the function of the fear that pushes everyone to swim isn't the same as saying that being afraid of drowning is a good thing. You become less afraid of drowning once you learn how to swim, but you couldn't have without that initial impulse, so you don't value judge the fear, you simply acknowledge it.

You transform a negative limiting emotion into a positive learning, weakness into strength. In you it may change, but weakness will always exists, the purpose of weakness? it's up to each to decide. And I'll stop with the analogies because I feel like I am getting carried away.

Yes, if the apparent progression towards more "positivity" is covertly based on an egotistical motivation for more "pleasure", then that's a significant problem. This would be a valuble discussion.
There you go, that's what I meant by "specialness and escapism", and there's tons of examples out there, the entire manifesting crowd and the secret crowd and the YCYOR crowd. I think they all had very interesting ideas, in some cases, but the focus was more on emulating the superficial aspect of an experience instead of truly attempting to embody certain principles. That is, a way to feed the ego into believing it was more special than others because it had transcended the "mundane".

When, as the C's have also mentioned, we're here to learn simple karmic lessons, and most of those for most of humanity are rather "mundane", I daresay, but not because of that are those lessons any less transcendental. IMO
 
this veil isn't objectively negative nor positive,
No, no, no... We can't be talking about the same veil. I think you'll better understand what I mean by the "veil" when you remember and analyze the following:

Session 30 September 1994 said:
Q: (L) Was the human race genetically engineered to be slaves?

A: Yes.

Session 22 October 1994 said:
Q: (L) Are human beings entrapped in physical matter?

A: By choice.

Q: (L) Why did they make this choice?

A: To experience physical sensations.

Session 7 January 1995 said:
A: 3rd density as you experience it is an illusion you have been fed to continue your imprisonment therein.

Session 21 January 1995 said:
Q: (L) [...] What is the "ultimate secret" being protected by the Consortium?

A: You are not in control of yourselves, you are an experiment.

[...]

Q: (T) The ultimate secret of the human race is that we are an experiment that other humans are conducting on the rest of us?

A: Part.

Q: (T) Okay, does the other part have to do with the Lizards?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Other aliens also?

A: Yes.

Session 1 June 1996 said:
A: Before these changes began to manifest, you were deeper into the "deadly illusion" than you are now. Emergence is, by its very nature, uncomfortable. But, it has and will, empower you, we promise!!!!!!!!

Session 6 Jun 1998 said:
A: The truth shall set you free... as you are imprisoned!
 
Now, in light of the above quotes, reconsider the following, please:

Session 25 July 1998 said:
At least you should by now know that it is the soul that matters, not the body. Others have genetically, spiritually and psychically manipulated/engineered you to be bodycentric. Interesting, as despite all efforts by 4th through 6th density STO, this "veil remains unbroken."
We know how much respect and care STO beings show for "free will". Despite this, the C's clearly state that 4D, 5D and 6D STO beings have long (probably since the fall) been taking great efforts to help us get rid of the "veil of imprisonment, of body-centricity". Isn't this somehow an "interference" in our "free will"? I think it is, at least to some extent. Then on what grounds could they do this? I believe this is to balance the excessive interference in our free will by STS groups for the purpose of preserving and deepening the "veil", the imprisonment, the nightmare, the unnecessary suffering. So, would you still describe it as "not objectively negative or positive"?
 
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The following statements by Maharaj seem to be parallel to the C's:

Desire for embodied existence is the root-cause of trouble.
By forgetting who you are and imagining yourself a mortal creature, you created so much trouble for yourself that you have to wake up, like from a bad dream.

Amazing similarity of expressions on the same subject:

Session 23 October 1994 said:
A: [...] All who have fallen must learn "the hard way."

Q: (L) Are you saying that the act of wanting to experience physical reality is the act of falling? [...] What is it about wanting to be physical is a "fall"?

A: Pleasure for the self.

M: [...] Desire the good of all and the universe will work with you. But if you want your own pleasure, you must earn it the hard way.


Another

Session 22 October 1994 said:
Q: (L) Are human beings entrapped in physical matter?

A: By choice.

Q: (L) Why did they make this choice?

A: To experience physical sensations.

Q: We live, because we must.

M: We live, because we crave sensory existence.
M: ...To crave is to slave.
 
Then perhaps you should define it in your own words.
I'll try. I mentioned two types of veil: The first is that which makes us forget our previous incarnations, and I think it's relatively natural and necessary. The second is that which makes us forget to a significant extent what/who we eternally are, and I think this is the one that causes our unnecessary suffering. The first veil is probably created by natural/universal forces, while I believe the second veil is created/caused by us, and reinforced by STS forces who feed on us.
 
I'll try. I mentioned two types of veil: The first is that which makes us forget our previous incarnations, and I think it's relatively natural and necessary. The second is that which makes us forget to a significant extent what/who we eternally are, and I think this is the one that causes our unnecessary suffering. The first veil is probably created by natural/universal forces, while I believe the second veil is created/caused by us, and reinforced by STS forces who feed on us.
The third veil is the one that prevents us from speaking all languages.

The fourth veil is the one that prevents us from knowing mathematics.

The fifth veil... :-D
 
Mirth! :))

Well, maybe the two are closely connected or even the same, with the difference being about the veil's measure or depth?

From Ra (Law of one):

Session 50
May 6, 1981


QUESTIONER: Can you expand on the concept of why it is necessary for an entity to polarize or interact properly with other entities during incarnation on the physical plane as we know it, and why this is not possible in the period between incarnations when the entity is aware of what it wishes to do?
Why must it incarnate and lose conscious recollection of what it wishes to do, and then act in the manner it expects to do?

RA: I am Ra. Let us take the example of the player who watches all the poker hands and therefore knows the game. To him it will be nothing more than child's play, since there is no risk involved. The other hands are known. The possibilities are known, and the hand will play correctly, but without interest.
In time/space and in the density of the true color green, everyone's hands are visible. Thoughts, feelings, problems, all of these can be seen. There is no deception, nor desire for such. In this way, great things can be accomplished in harmony, but the mind/body/spirit does not get much polarity from such interaction.
Let us reexamine this metaphor and multiply it into the greatest game of poker you can imagine: a lifetime. The cards are “love,” “dislike,” “limitation,” “unhappiness,” “pleasure,” etc. They are dealt continually.
During this incarnation you can begin—and we emphasize that it is a beginning—to know your own cards. You can begin to find the love that exists within you and to balance your pleasure, your limitations, etc.; however, your only indication of the cards of others is by looking into their eyes.
You cannot remember your hand of cards, their hands of cards, perhaps not even the rules of the game. This game can be won only by those who lose their cards in the fusing influence of love, who lay their pleasures and limitations on the table, face their cards, and say to themselves, “All of you players, every fellow human being, no matter what your hand, I love you.” That is the game: knowing, accepting, forgiving, balancing, and opening the self in love.
This cannot be achieved without the process of forgetting, for without it nothing would be of any weight in the totality of the life of the mind/body/spirit being.
 
From Ra (Law of one):

Session 50
May 6, 1981


QUESTIONER: Can you expand on the concept of why it is necessary for an entity to polarize or interact properly with other entities during incarnation on the physical plane as we know it, and why this is not possible in the period between incarnations when the entity is aware of what it wishes to do?
Why must it incarnate and lose conscious recollection of what it wishes to do, and then act in the manner it expects to do?

RA: I am Ra. Let us take the example of the player who watches all the poker hands and therefore knows the game. To him it will be nothing more than child's play, since there is no risk involved. The other hands are known. The possibilities are known, and the hand will play correctly, but without interest.
In time/space and in the density of the true color green, everyone's hands are visible. Thoughts, feelings, problems, all of these can be seen. There is no deception, nor desire for such. In this way, great things can be accomplished in harmony, but the mind/body/spirit does not get much polarity from such interaction.
Let us reexamine this metaphor and multiply it into the greatest game of poker you can imagine: a lifetime. The cards are “love,” “dislike,” “limitation,” “unhappiness,” “pleasure,” etc. They are dealt continually.
During this incarnation you can begin—and we emphasize that it is a beginning—to know your own cards. You can begin to find the love that exists within you and to balance your pleasure, your limitations, etc.; however, your only indication of the cards of others is by looking into their eyes.
You cannot remember your hand of cards, their hands of cards, perhaps not even the rules of the game. This game can be won only by those who lose their cards in the fusing influence of love, who lay their pleasures and limitations on the table, face their cards, and say to themselves, “All of you players, every fellow human being, no matter what your hand, I love you.” That is the game: knowing, accepting, forgiving, balancing, and opening the self in love.
This cannot be achieved without the process of forgetting, for without it nothing would be of any weight in the totality of the life of the mind/body/spirit being.
Very inspiring example by Ra. But we have that "different veils" (or different levels of a veil) problem again because the beneficial veil of forgetting described in this example doesn't seem to be the same with the "3D-thinking / body-centricity" veil which the C's say 4D through 6D STO have been trying to help us get rid of; the one which I believe comprises the "deadly illusion" as described by the C's. Imprisonment. Being an experiment of slavery. The receiver group of Ra were probably not ready to learn about some darker aspects of the Matrix reality on the world. But the Ra Material has its very special place all the same.
 
"Deadly illusion":

Session 1 June 1996 said:
A: Before these changes began to manifest, you were deeper into the "deadly illusion" than you are now. Emergence is, by its very nature, uncomfortable. But, it has and will, empower you, we promise!!!!!!!!

Session 7 January 1995 said:
A: 3rd density as you experience it is an illusion you have been fed to continue your imprisonment therein.

This is the "veil" I've been trying to attract attention to, with little success.
 
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Very inspiring example by Ra. But we have that "different veils" (or different levels of a veil) problem again because the beneficial veil of forgetting described in this example doesn't seem to be the same with the "3D-thinking / body-centricity" veil which the C's say 4D through 6D STO have been trying to help us get rid of; the one which I believe comprises the "deadly illusion" as described by the C's. Imprisonment. Being an experiment of slavery. The receiver group of Ra were probably not ready to learn about some darker aspects of the Matrix reality on the world. But the Ra Material has its very special place all the same.
It is one and the same.

What I was going to say next I have written and erased several times, because when I read it and compared it with your comments I realized that it was not going to be of any use.

Despite my efforts, that veil will remain intact.:-)
 
The second is that which makes us forget to a significant extent what/who we eternally are, and I think this is the one that causes our unnecessary suffering. T

Thanks, do you think that there's a necessity for that second veil to exist? can you imagine if we were all born completely aware of such an existence? It may get in the way of our learning and overwhelm some individuals.
 
Now, in light of the above quotes, reconsider the following, please:


We know how much respect and care STO beings show for "free will". Despite this, the C's clearly state that 4D, 5D and 6D STO beings have long (probably since the fall) been taking great efforts to help us get rid of the "veil of imprisonment, of body-centricity". Isn't this somehow an "interference" in our "free will"? I think it is, at least to some extent. Then on what grounds could they do this? I believe this is to balance the excessive interference in our free will by STS groups for the purpose of preserving and deepening the "veil", the imprisonment, the nightmare, the unnecessary suffering. So, would you still describe it as "not objectively negative or positive"?
I don’t see an infringement of freewill. I consider that there are moments any one of us could have at any occasion that creates an opening due to frequency resonance matching and thus an opportunity for a display of consciousness expanding by our STO selves. For example, let’s say, on a very basic level, one has a loving thought about someone thay has passed and immediately following that event a butterfly lands right near them and flutters its wings and gives the person a little tingle. The thought created the connection to the higher density and then the person/spirit/entity thought of could respond with a synchronistic reaction to prompt some intrigue.

I think what the C’s meant by the comment that 4th-6th STO have have difficulty, or more likely, are unable to penetrate the veil because humans are too fickle and self absorbed with their petty interest to pay enough attention to the synchronicities and signs that are left for them at the times when there is a FRV match between the two.
 
It is one and the same.

What I was going to say next I have written and erased several times, because when I read it and compared it with your comments I realized that it was not going to be of any use.

Despite my efforts, that veil will remain intact.:-)
Can you tell me and others? I’m of the idea that it’s the forgetting which is the veil, a blocking of the subconscious mind.
 
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