Shared Joy
Jedi Council Member
obyvatel said:
It seems to me that this abnormal appetite's middle name is perfectionism. It is a heavy and cumbersome state of the mind which literary cripples you in action and thinking.
Joy
Observation must begin from the beginning
- Thread starter Vic
- Start date
It seems to me that this abnormal appetite's middle name is perfectionism. It is a heavy and cumbersome state of the mind which literary cripples you in action and thinking.
Joy
Vic
Jedi Council Member
Joy Shared said:
I think behind perfectionism is insecurity, which is fear. Perfectionism is a symptom. Obyvatel mentioned doing things that were currently beyond his/her 'ken' - as far as I know 'ken' is knowledge, or what someone 'knows' - my own fear manifested more in trying to do too many things, too quickly. That's always doomed to fail.
In this my first week of redundancy I am finding that in the mornings I have the urge to get everything sorted out for the future - whatever that is. I end up doing nothing and feeling bad about it. Then I force myself to exercise, and then Eiriu Eloas, then whatever housework needs doing. After that I'm on a more even keel. My challenge is to stop worrying about the future, and address the present.
Vic
Jedi Council Member
Mariama said:
Good to hear from you, Mariama :)
This is a real opportunity for me - the Work, growth etc. Moods are up and down. But they are up and down at the same times of day, so I think the programs behind them are easier to identify. As an example, every day this week I have been getting irritable and anxious at around 8pm. For the last seven years I have been in bed by that time for getting up early for work. I only realised this one earlier this evening. With the realisation came relief from the symptoms.
If only all programs were that easy to identify and neutralise.
Paddyjohn said:
Ah, but you will be getting better and better at identifying these programs, if you give yourself some time. Don't worry too much about it; no anticipation is best, OSIT. Besides, it is fun to learn more about yourself. When were we ever allowed to do so?
And yes, information is very important. According to Laura the people that have been having sessions with Patrick and Heather (Spirit Release Therapy thread) do better afterwards, because they have been getting new information about themselves. Then all of a sudden they understand more about themselves and the reasons why they always acted a certain way (paraphrasing here).
Be proud of the realisations you have unearthed so far (I know easier said than done), but you have made a start and that is very good. :)
Vic
Jedi Council Member
Mariama said:
Funny you should mention Patrick and Heather. I have thought about having a session with them a few times. Something keeps putting me off. Not sure exactly what. I'll go back to that thread and have a good look.
You make a great point Mariama, about never being allowed to learn about ourselves. Discouraged from doing so in fact. The idea of it being fun is a new one to me. Reading that I just realised that the idea of learning about myself comes wrapped in a dark shroud. But why should it be like that? Thank you :)
Paddyjohn said:
I experienced the same thing, but I just kept following the thread and read about the accounts of others and became more and more intrigued and curious. People have been saying such good things about Patrick and Heather and the insights that they gained were quite profound. Did you listen to P&R's interview with SOTT? I really liked Patrick's voice and there was this nice rapport between him and Laura. Heather had some fascinating things to say.
In hindsight I can say it is fun. :) Of course it is a painful process at times, but at the same time we also experience deeper joy (joy is also discussed in the PR thread) the farther we go. At least that is how I see it. I also have the tendency to beat myself up and I carry a lot of shame and guilt and have very little self-compassion or self-acceptance. It makes this process harder. But I can have a laugh every now and then when I look at myself, for instance when my ego is whining. ;) Laughter is very liberating. If I laugh at myself the negative thought loops will disappear fairly quickly. I guess they don't like laughter... :D
And sometimes tears are very cleansing, too and bring tremendous relief afterwards.
I like edgitarra's thoughts on this "dark shroud".
Hi PaddyJohn,
I love reading your posts... as they are with insights and self-realizations, which many are lack of ...
I hate 'copy' and 'paste' kind of 'scientist' work , putting lots of air around them,
yet waiting for the Cs' answers just as everyone else ! :)
You are the brave one ...telling your seemingly 'weakness' is a strength that not many can do.
I believe this is how a true teacher teaches, to be a way shower,
Not to lead and to control how others should do and be.
I love reading your posts... as they are with insights and self-realizations, which many are lack of ...
I hate 'copy' and 'paste' kind of 'scientist' work , putting lots of air around them,
yet waiting for the Cs' answers just as everyone else ! :)
You are the brave one ...telling your seemingly 'weakness' is a strength that not many can do.
I believe this is how a true teacher teaches, to be a way shower,
Not to lead and to control how others should do and be.
I step in a little late into this thread. The title was compelling to me. It immediately reminded me of 5 paragraphs in which Krishnamurti sums it all up perfectly, and I mean when he talks about "pure observation". To me, his words sound powerful and full of meaning.
I quote:
"The Core of the Teachings (Written by Krishnamurti in 1980 at the request of his biographer Mary Lutyens.)
"The core of Krishnamurti’s teaching is contained in the statement he made in 1929 when he said, “Truth is a pathless land”. Man cannot come to it through any organization, through any creed, through any dogma, priest or ritual, not through any philosophical knowledge or psychological technique. He has to find it through the mirror of relationship, through the understanding of the contents of his own mind, through observation and not through intellectual analysis or introspective dissection.
"Man has built in himself images as a fence of security—religious, political, personal. These manifest as symbols, ideas, beliefs. The burden of these images dominates man’s thinking, his relationships, and his daily life. These images are the causes of our problems for they divide man from man. His perception of life is shaped by the concepts already established in his mind. The content of his consciousness is his entire existence. The individuality is the name, the form and superficial culture he acquires from tradition and environment. The uniqueness of man does not lie in the superficial but in complete freedom from the content of his consciousness, which is common to all humanity. So he is not an individual.
"Freedom is not a reaction; freedom is not choice. It is man’s pretence that because he has choice he is free. Freedom is pure observation without direction, without fear of punishment and reward. Freedom is without motive; freedom is not at the end of the evolution of man but lies in the first step of his existence. In observation one begins to discover the lack of freedom. Freedom is found in the choiceless awareness of our daily existence and activity.
"Thought is time. Thought is born of experience and knowledge, which are inseparable from time and the past. Time is the psychological enemy of man. Our action is based on knowledge and therefore time, so man is always a slave to the past. Thought is ever limited and so we live in constant conflict and struggle. There is no psychological evolution. When man becomes aware of the movement of his own thoughts, he will see the division between the thinker and thought, the observer and the observed, the experiencer and the experience. He will discover that this division is an illusion. Then only is there pure observation which is insight without any shadow of the past or of time. This timeless insight brings about a deep, radical mutation in the mind.
"Total negation is the essence of the positive. When there is negation of all those things that thought has brought about psychologically, only then is there love, which is compassion and intelligence."
I quote:
"The Core of the Teachings (Written by Krishnamurti in 1980 at the request of his biographer Mary Lutyens.)
"The core of Krishnamurti’s teaching is contained in the statement he made in 1929 when he said, “Truth is a pathless land”. Man cannot come to it through any organization, through any creed, through any dogma, priest or ritual, not through any philosophical knowledge or psychological technique. He has to find it through the mirror of relationship, through the understanding of the contents of his own mind, through observation and not through intellectual analysis or introspective dissection.
"Man has built in himself images as a fence of security—religious, political, personal. These manifest as symbols, ideas, beliefs. The burden of these images dominates man’s thinking, his relationships, and his daily life. These images are the causes of our problems for they divide man from man. His perception of life is shaped by the concepts already established in his mind. The content of his consciousness is his entire existence. The individuality is the name, the form and superficial culture he acquires from tradition and environment. The uniqueness of man does not lie in the superficial but in complete freedom from the content of his consciousness, which is common to all humanity. So he is not an individual.
"Freedom is not a reaction; freedom is not choice. It is man’s pretence that because he has choice he is free. Freedom is pure observation without direction, without fear of punishment and reward. Freedom is without motive; freedom is not at the end of the evolution of man but lies in the first step of his existence. In observation one begins to discover the lack of freedom. Freedom is found in the choiceless awareness of our daily existence and activity.
"Thought is time. Thought is born of experience and knowledge, which are inseparable from time and the past. Time is the psychological enemy of man. Our action is based on knowledge and therefore time, so man is always a slave to the past. Thought is ever limited and so we live in constant conflict and struggle. There is no psychological evolution. When man becomes aware of the movement of his own thoughts, he will see the division between the thinker and thought, the observer and the observed, the experiencer and the experience. He will discover that this division is an illusion. Then only is there pure observation which is insight without any shadow of the past or of time. This timeless insight brings about a deep, radical mutation in the mind.
"Total negation is the essence of the positive. When there is negation of all those things that thought has brought about psychologically, only then is there love, which is compassion and intelligence."
Vic
Jedi Council Member
edgitarra said:
I've been thinking about this over the last couple of days, as well as doing EE, and I think it may be a combination of the classic negative parenting (verbal, psychological and physical assault) and the christian/cultural influence - definition of human being as fallen and worthless.
I'm not letting the dark shroud of fear stop me now. It's not that strong.
Vic
Jedi Council Member
Mariama said:
I am one of those people that have tried a thousand things to heal me, cure me, change me, enlighten me blah, blah, that seemingly work for others but never for me. I've read about this phenomenon somewhere but unable to recall exactly where.
That may be why I am reluctant to use the services of Patrick and Heather - subconsciously thinking it won't work and yet more money wasted. Okay, so I've identified a program and am happy to overrule it. First I'll listen to the Sott Radio show that you mentioned so I can get a feel for it. I've caught up on the thread itself.
Thanks Mariama :)
Vic
Jedi Council Member
Amy said:
Hi Amy
Good to hear from you.
To be honest I have benefited a great deal from the, as you put it, 'copy and paste kind of scientist' information on this forum. In terms of health it is an absolute treasure trove. Copying and pasting information is part of the collaboration that goes on between members in the hunt for knowledge that not only benefits members but also the planet (and beyond)
That's primarily what this network is about - research. Members will help each other of course - but some won't see the big picture - the true picture. Self-importance/ego kicks in and we feel slanted and unjustly treated. We think we are right and others are wrong but they can't see it. We expect to receive rather than give. And it all muddies the waters and stops us getting on with the real work.
This community, OSIT, challenges us as individuals to get serious. But we can't get serious until we get ourselves out of the way. The only way to achieve the latter that I have perceived so far, is to spill the beans, get honest on the forum, and absorb and reflect on what comes back at us.
In the end of course it's all down to what the individual decides.
So what about you, Amy? Where are you at? :)
