OceanGate submarine disappears at bottom of ocean

I vote during the next C’s sessions we ask “what happened” and “what caused the happenings to happen”

I am not saying this is the most important question nore do I want to take up questions but there is curiosity here on the forum and the C’s are the only ones I know that would know the truth.
 
David Cameron, the movie director known for his diving expertise, said that the reason for the implosion was the material the submersive was made of, i.e. carbon fiber. It looks like safety took a backseat in favour of innovation.

www.dailywire.com

‘Titanic’ Director And Diving Expert James Cameron Explains Why The Titan Sub Imploded Underwater | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com www.dailywire.com

Cameron said that there have never been any fatalities in this type of underwater exploration in the past and that the Titan imploded because it was made out of carbon fiber, which is stronger and lighter than steel or aluminum but has “no strength in compression.”

Cameron said that the implosion, when an object collapses inward, would have been “an extremely violent event — like 10 cases of dynamite going off.”

Cameron said that deep submergence is a “mature art” and that all submersibles “except this one” undergo certification protocols to make sure the vessels are safe for passengers.

“This is a mature art, and many people in the community were very concerned about this sub. And a number of the top players in the deep submergence engineering community even wrote letters to the company, saying that what they were doing was too experimental to carry passengers, and that it needed to be certified,” he said. “So, I’m struck by the similarity of the Titanic disaster itself, where the captain was repeatedly warned about ice ahead of his ship, and yet he steamed at full speed into an ice field on a moonless night and many people died as a result.”
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Other sources point towards the material too, for example, this article says industry experts and employees of OceanGate have previously warned about the material:

The tragedy comes years after many marine experts and former OceanGate employees had sounded the alarm on the technology.

“Innovation is a wonderful thing,” said Bart Kemper, a mechanical engineer who is part of the Marine Technology Society, an industry group of ocean engineers, technologists, policymakers and educators.

“But," Kemper added, "everything that is new and not tried introduces uncertainty, and uncertainty is risk.”

The 23,000-pound vessel was made of “titanium and filament wound carbon fiber” and had been “proven to be a safe and comfortable vessel" that could "withstand the enormous pressures of the deep ocean,” OceanGate said on its website.

While carbon fiber has long been used within the aerospace industry, Kemper said it had not been proven to repeatedly withstand such deep-sea pressures.

The wreckage of the Titanic lies at a depth of about 13,000 feet. That is significantly deeper than the roughly 2,000 or 3,000 feet that a typical U.S. Navy submarine descends to.

At Titanic depths, the water pressure is nearly 400 times more than at the ocean’s surface, experts told NBC News. Some 6,000 pounds would have been pressing down on every square inch of Titan’s exterior.

“It’s a design that’s not been used in this way at this depth,” Kemper said, comparing a submersible to a balloon. “All it has to do is fail in one spot and game over.”

In contrast, U.S. Navy submarines are made with carbon steel, a “tried and true material” that is reliable and thoroughly understood, according to Captain David Marquet, a retired Navy submarine commander.

“It’s not sexy. It’s not, some would say, innovative, but we understand how it reacts in these situations very clearly,” Marquet said.

Carbon fiber, the former sub commander said, is a relatively new material, especially for building submarine hulls. He said multiple repeated dives, inspections, X-rays and ultrasounds are needed to fully understand how the material responds to stress and pressure over time.

The Titan was diving 10 times deeper than the Navy takes its submarines, which meant it was undergoing 10 times more pressure, Marquet said.

“We are super scared of the pressure,” he said.

The Titan was only on its third Titanic trip since OceanGate Expeditions began offering them in 2021, with prices of a spot on the submersible reaching as high as $250,000.
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mkrnhr said:
Perceived regular "banging" sounds could also be generated by cables being moved by water currents. As an analogy, one can think of wind chimes people put in their homes. Also, from the point of view of information, a strictly periodic pattern is as informative as noise.
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I've also been wondering whether there was any similar noise coming out of that location before the submersive's implosion. It was reported that the sonar picked up the banging noise after the catastrophe, but were there any weird noises coming out of that area before the disaster that weren't reported because there was no reason to zoom in on them - and/or they were just noises that normally come out of the ocean? Or was that area supposed to be completely quiet? I can't find any answers that would solve this for me.
 
Watergate. Irangate. Russiagate. Climategate. The suffix “gate” is a dog whistle meme. Not sayin’. Just sayin’. Will this yield a gate-gate? That would be cool.

The overarching point is that there are stories screaming for attention right now. 3D Soap operas aplenty. It is a known fact that magicians use diversions of attention to achieve their tricks. AKA the Golden Retriever Effect?

All we “know” is what we are told and shown on TV and media by previously known liars which are then repackaged and reimagined by our fave trusted conduits of choice.

So I’m taking an utterly indifferent stance on this one. Wait and see. Comfortably numb? Just plane numb? Jaded Cynic? This too shall pass.

It’s part of the never-ending 3D soap opera news cycle. A year from now no one will remember or care about it. I’m already there. I got the “move three spaces ahead” card.
 
BHelmet said:
The overarching point is that there are stories screaming for attention right now. 3D Soap operas aplenty. It is a known fact that magicians use diversions of attention to achieve their tricks. AKA the Golden Retriever Effect?

All we “know” is what we are told and shown on TV and media by previously known liars which are then repackaged and reimagined by our fave trusted conduits of choice.

So I’m taking an utterly indifferent stance on this one. Wait and see. Comfortably numb? Just plane numb? Jaded Cynic? This too shall pass.

It’s part of the never-ending 3D soap opera news cycle. A year from now no one will remember or care about it. I’m already there. I got the “move three spaces ahead” card.
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Yes, there's plenty of bigger stories going on right now, but smaller stories such as this have their place too. It's part of taking stock of what's happening in the world as a whole which involves developments on the big stage and at the more local level. This one gives us a cautionary tale of what can happen when incompetence meets Woke hiring standards. Its a reflection of what's going on in the world at large and the tragic consequences that await us if we're not careful.
 
so you have millions of millions of dollars, but you can't send one such submarine without the passengers first? you also need to put there three ceos, one descendant and some sort of a brainiac? none of it makes sense and how can you be warned so much and ignore it? maybe it was like with the titanic indeed and they thought those people are against innovation. or they felt self confident cause of the money and everything going just fine. like that guy a video of i've seen, he invented parachute, jumped off the eiffel tower and splashed to the ground. he had mustache too. even abba traveled separately in case of any accident. and somewhat i wonder how angels feel when there is inevitable, someone even has bad feelings but it's all ignored and...
 
Titanic tourism seems like a niche market for rich people to invest no matter how much they charge.

So I saw a video interview with Rush, and it said he was interested in the oil/gas industry and their need for submersible tech, and he wanted to get in the market for their money, potentially worth billions.

Then you have the potential military application with underwater pipelines being sabotaged, ect. Maybe he would have innovated underwater drones? His maverick style in that sense would make him dangerous.

This news link is a month old regarding the threat to internet cables linking the U.S. to Europe. So there were recent concerns about the threat to our infrastructure in the Atlantic from sabotage.

 
One more thought about the nonsensical designs this company was pursuing....

Speculation, of course.

Drones. He may have been researching the viability of making drones.

The carbon titainium design is for limited use, so its reusability not so much a concern. And not really for human use. And the cheap off the shelf materials he used... That would make sense as in a drone set up, you don't want to use state of the art stuff, just use bomb-grade single use material. The inside of that thing was not much more than a payload bay.

In the video I saw earlier, the simplicity was as simple as pressing one button.... (He then pushes it, and a green light turns on, his interviewer laughs.)

As for testing, they needed to simulate the weight of a bomb payload, so they used deep water tourism to put their designs through their paces, and get funding in the process. The 'made in a garage' makes sense in that context - it's bomb making.
 
There is also what could be called model hubris (a map is not the territory). Traditional manufacture is based upon experiments and experience. Most graduates today rely on computer models to build everything. These models are useful as a first step even with tolerancing, because some parameters (and assumptions) are approximate and need refinement through experiments if the thing being built is delicate. For instance, there are approximate models for material fatigue, but in the end, competent industries do the experiments: they take the material through cycles of stress (exceeding the expected ranges of operation) and see how different batches evolve through time. One of my favorite books in a certain area of engineering, made by a veteran in the field, contains a chapter of bloopers on how millions of dollars were lost because some small details were ignored or neglected. Fortunately none of these examples cost lives. Practical know-how (techne knowledge) cannot be taught in theory at a university or through a textbook, which is why people who have gone through learning from practical mistakes are invaluable. In an era of de-industrialization (and 3d-printers), such a know-how becomes rare, and maybe someday some of it will just disappear, until new errors are made again.
 
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