Paleo Women/Diet and Menstruation

[Gertrudes]

Thanks for that brainwave and Mrs. Tigersoap, very interesting articles.

What is the "normal" average age for menarche and menopause is the question.

I had my first period a 12 and felt totally unprepared. I was a child and felt like my body had been invaded by a sexuality that had imposed itself way too early. This is subjective, of course, but fwiw.
T. S. Wiley in "Sex lies and Menopause" talks about how over consumption of carbohydrates leads to early puberty and aging. Although she doesn't seem to completely grasp the intricacies of insulin overload due to excess carbohydrate consumption the way we are now beginning to understand through paleo reading, I do think that she was right in her assessment of the acceleration of biological clock. Also, the paleo/low carb authors in general speak about premature aging due to our common western diet. Adding to that, we have soy, pesticides and other hormone disruptors that are causing for 8 year old girls to have pubic hair and even their first period!

Strassman does not seem to think that differences in diet influences menses that much, but I must say I have repeatedly noticed (in me, friends, clients) differences in how women menstruate when they change their diet.

I'm not sure I agree with Strassman there either. She says that: The more significant factors, Strassmann says, are things like the prevalence of wet-nursing or sterility. Ok, so we are talking AFTER pregnancy, but what to say about the women whose first menstruation happened at 16, as opposed to the average of 12.5 in Western societies, had their first child a few years after, and between menarche and first pregnancy only menstruated 2 or 3 times? There has to be a causing factor for all of these differences.

I noticed more than once that taking special care of my digestion a few days before my periods are due greatly decrease the pain of the first day, for example.

Before becoming pain and symptom free with the paleo diet (at least so far), I also noticed that being careful with what I ate a couple of days before being due would alleviate symptoms.

 

[truth seeker]

Yes, thanks much for the articles, Brainwave and Mrs. Tigersoap. :)

I was initially interested in Coutinho's book until I realized that he seemed to be interested in controlling women's periods. Jerrilyn Prior of the site Brainwave posted reflects my current thoughts on Coutinho:

I believe this "campaign" to obliterate periods is a disguised form of direct-to-consumer drug advertising (which Canada bans). If it were not for the purpose of selling the new three-month birth control pills (that are apparently already available in countries other than Canada), these authors would emphasize the available methods to suppress flow. For the same reason it omits to mention effective prevention or treatment strategies for the supposedly horrid consequences of menstruation. For example, over-the-counter ibuprofen prevents or treats dysmenorrhea. ...

Perhaps though, there will be other insights found in his book.

I hadn't seen the above (I came across a different reference) Gladwell article though have been very interested in the Dogon tribe of Mali for a while now. I also agree that Stassman ignores dietary factors a little too quickly.

 

[Oxajil]

I was thinking that leptin might play a big role here.

From: _http://womenshealth.about.com/od/gynecologicalhealthissues/a/leptinstudy.htm

Study Finds Leptin Restores Reprodutive Function in Women

Can a hormone that regulates a number of essential physiological functions that depend on adequate energy balance, including reproduction, metabolism, and bone formation, restore reproductive function in women? According to a new study, led by researchers at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center (BIDMC) and Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH), research shows that a hormone called leptin can restore reproductive function in women. The results of the study also suggest that leptin has a potential role in treating three significant women’s health issues – infertility, eating disorders, and bone loss.

The findings of this study are described in the September 2, 2004 issue of The New England Journal. Christos Mantzoros, M.D., Director of the Human Nutrition Research Unit and Clinical Research Overseer of the Department of Endocrinology at BIDMC and Associate Professor of Medicine at Harvard Medical School explained that this study has particular relevance for three groups of women. These women have one thing in common – low levels of body fat.

According to Dr. Mantzoros, “The largest group is made up of extremely thin women who are dealing with problems of infertility; the second group consists of competitive athletes and dancers whose thin frames put them at risk for developing osteoporosis and suffering bone fractures; and the smallest – but most extreme – group is women who are battling eating disorders, such as anorexia nervosa.”

Leptin is often recognized as an appetite and weight regulation hormone. But did you know that the hormone leptin also serves an indicator that tells the brain and other organs when extremely low energy is available?

Mantzoros goes on, “We know that leptin is produced by the body’s fat tissue and is secreted into the bloodstream in proportion to the amount of energy stored in fat. From there, it travels to the brain where it communicates exactly how much energy is available.” Because of this process, leptin regulates a number of important physiological functions that depend on adequate energy balance. These physiological functions include reproduction, metabolism, and bone function.

As a result, when women have severely low levels of body fat, which may occur after excessive dieting or exercise or in women with eating disorders, the body enters a state of “negative energy balance” that adversely affects reproductive function and metabolism according to Dr. Mantzoros.

“Women stop menstruating and develop hypothalamic amenorrhea, their ovaries cease to function, and their levels of estrogen and other reproductive hormones drop dramatically,” explained Mantzoros. Amenorrhea (absence of menstruation) is also associated with a number of other conditions including abnormal thyroid hormone levels, abnormal growth factor levels, and loss of bone mass. Loss of bone mass can lead to osteoporosis and broken bones.

And from PBPM we know that:

The only thing that can possibly restore healthy leptin functioning is a diet that is very low in sugar and starch (which includes eliminating grains, breads, pasta, rice, and potatoes as well as sweets) and is sufficient in healthy natural fats.

So what I think is that the absence of menstruation can be a sign of something going totally wrong, especially if the ovaries are taking damage. However, if leptin is restored and the different functions of the different hormones can be directed in a more natural and balanced way, this can cause for something that might point to absence of menstruation, but might not be the case per se (as you all said), maybe the body simply knows that it is not time to ovulate? Or maybe ovulation still occurs, but the symptoms that are labeled to menstruation aren't so natural to have?

And here we can read: _http://www.menstruation.com.au/periodpages/libido.html
My comments between {...}

Libido and your cycle

The female libido or sex drive changes throughout the menstrual cycle as do many other aspects of life. For example, consider energy levels and emotions. Libido often peaks at mid cycle and premenstrually or just before bleeding, and the experience of these separate peaks is different.

Many women experience pre-menstrual / menstrual sex as rawer, more urgent and more primal which is not surprising considering our heightened intuitive and emotional states at this time. If we have been feeling disgruntled or irritable with our lot and those around us, sexual expression naturally takes on this aggressive edge. Moods aside, in their natural state female humans have an "inordinately high drive and orgasmic capacity"(1) at this time. {Currently (I heard this during my Sexual Health course) researchers are working on the theory that a woman's orgasm helps sperm cells with reaching their destination. There are already some signs that point to that, but more research is needed.}

Through history and even now, there are many taboos around sexual expression before, during and just after menstruation. Menstruation which was once thought of and used as a power source for women and their cultures was debased as the world evolved into masculine rule. When it became important for men to know who their offspring were, it became important for female sexuality to be limited and controlled. With these taboos firmly in place, it is often a brave woman who dares explore her sexual nature menstrually.

Biological these sexual peaks, like many behaviours in the human body are thought to reflect the action of hormones. Not surprisingly there is still much that is unknown about hormones and female libido so it is difficult to conclusively evaluate what chemical does what and when.

Two of the hormones linked to female desire are testosterone and estrogen. Testosterone is the sex hormone most often associated with men, aggressiveness, lust and masculinity. Women produce testosterone too, (in the ovaries and adrenal glands), albeit at much lower levels than men - women have about one tenth the volume of testosterone that men do.

Both estrogen and testosterone levels peak at mid cycle. They seem to combine interactively affecting the brain in different ways. Whilst testosterone may work to boost libido and energy, ensuring that the nipples and clitoris are sensitive to sexual pleasure, (whilst also maintaining muscle mass and strengthening bones) estrogen's "basic behavioural strategy is to hone the senses."(2)

Estrogen "pinches us and says, Pay attention. A number of studies have suggested that a woman's vision and sense of smell are heightened at ovulation. So too do the senses shine at other times of high estrogenicity, such as right before menstruation, when your progesterone levels have dropped way down and left estrogen to act unopposed..."(2)

Men and women are different - whilst a woman may experience lust and desire, we are less likely (on the whole) to act indiscriminately. We tend to weigh up the sexual situation (using all our senses including our sixth sense) to determine the risks and benefits of sexual coupling - Is the potential suitor a good catch? Is it a safe time? Are there predators about? Are the children awake? To put it coarsely we are less likely than men " to think with our sexual organs" and this could be due to the influence of estrogen.

All this contributes to the difficulty in categorising female libido. Our sexuality is no longer tied to our fertility and we don't just have sex to get pregnant. We can become aroused and desire sex at any time during our cycle - not just when we are fertile. Alternatively because we can think and are sensitive to our culture and those around us, our libido is also affected by outside factors - at times negatively. {There are also signs that leptin controls sexual desire, so I think that diet and environmental factors, along with genetic damage and so forth play a role here (causing leptin resistance), perhaps women hunter-gatherers didn't desire sex ''at any time during the cycle''}

So to sum up, many factors affect the female libido - biology, thoughts, culture and emotions to name a few.

So how can we know when our ovulation starts when we don't sense any signs that we are accustomed to? One possibility is that the chemicals, the way the different hormones function and reactions that take place in our bodies when we are close to our partners, makes our body understand what's going on and as an effect might prepare itself for pregnancy (if wanted?). Another possibility could be that estrogen might help us notify as described above, when ovulation is going to take place, and it helps us to decide whether we should act on it or not.

Here is one thing from Bringers of the Dawn that I was reminded of when thinking about all of this:

How do they benefit? They keep women from uniting with each other and
men from uniting with each other here in the United States. They keep
people in fear. They convince you, by continuously putting these issues
before you, that a woman has no control over the birthing process in her
body. You don't need abortion: you never need to get pregnant in the
first place if you don't desire it. How? By will. A woman can say to
herself, "I am not prepared at this time for a child." Or, alternately,
"I am in receptivity of a child." When you own yourself, you will not
need permission from the government about what you can do with your own
body.

But yea, it's difficult to know with so little data. Just my thoughts on this.

 

[HifromGrace]

Great conversation!!

I'm late to the game, and my input has already been covered and quoted above, so I just want to say thanks to Go2 for the great book lead! (I'm always lookin!)

My personal experience with menstruation is that I had the highly painful debilitating kind my whole youth, up until consuming copious amounts of Evening Primrose and eliminating soy & plastics contaminating my food (estrogen mimickers). The pain started before I was a vegetarian, and I made those changes while I was still one. I eat meat now, and there have been no changes in my cycle at all.

I’m very close on the palio diet, and have had no changes in my menstruation. I’ll post if I have any changes as I more closely align my diet!

On an interesting side note – my polycystic ovaries have come and gone, and come back (since consuming coffee regularly, again, estrogen mimicker) in the past several yrs. BUT my pain has been gone this entire time - I would have thought they were linked. They have been independent experiences. Very odd and fascinating.

Still working on laying off the coffee – the hardest thing I’ve had to face.

 

[Alana]

Very interesting discussion, indeed! I was actually thinking of bringing this subject up myself, because I observed some changes in my menstrual cycle after I went low-to-no-carbs. In my case, I still get my periods, but they last less days, and they are "watery". Previously, my periods would last 7-10 days and be very heavy, with lots of pain the first two days. Now the pain only lasts a couple of hours and is less intense.

I am welcoming the changes, but I did get worried whether it was normal or not. But from what you posted so far, it seems that we have no idea what normal is regarding our menstrual cycles in this age and culture.

On an interesting side note – my polycystic ovaries have come and gone, and come back (since consuming coffee regularly, again, estrogen mimicker) in the past several yrs. BUT my pain has been gone this entire time - I would have thought they were linked. They have been independent experiences. Very odd and fascinating.

HifromGrace, it seems that the ketogenic diet helps with the symptoms of polycystic ovary syndrome (note that the study was done with overweight women, so there might be other factors involved here too):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1334192/

FWIW

 

[theos]

Interesting topic. I have some speculations.

Maybe, as Truthseeker said, menstruation was more seasonal. Perhaps due to more carbohydrate being available in the summertime this led to menstruation due to the effects of carbohydrate on hormones. The leanness of the woman could also come to play. I think I remember reading that adipose tissue can be a producer of hormones as well. So maybe after eating more roots or fruits in summer paleo women had their menses, got pregnant and gave birth in spring. Doing a quick search, I couldn't find anything on the freqeuncy of menstruation of Maasai (eating meat, blood and milk) or Eskimo women who still eat a traditional diet.

Nowadays, more frequent menstruation could also be affected by plastics and environmental polllutants' action on hormones. The points about excreting toxins as a cause of more frequent menses and the storage of iron is also interesting.

My periods are about 4 days long with a heavy first day. No pain at all just a slight heavy feeling in the abdomen. I have noticed that when I am very low or no carb for a while my interest in sex is very low. Sexual thoughts increase with more carbs.

 

[rrraven]

maybe we have stumbled upon the reason our hunter-gather ancestors took up the grain thing....it makes the girls want sex more than once or twice a year
I do remember reading something about eskimos/inuit mating games at a certain time of year and that all babies are born around the same time.
also about the misconception of male explorers who where ''offered'' the ''chiefs'' wife for their stay ,where in reality the head woman called ''dibs'' on the new genetic material
In Uriel s machine -http://www.knight-lomas.com/uriel.html the speculated that the special chambers that get sunlit only on special days like equinox where birthing rooms
In one of my feminist books,cant remember which one, the garden of Eden story is interpreted as Eve gaining the knowledge of when or when not to fall pregnant and that was her ''crime'' for the patriarchs

 

[HifromGrace]

Alana - thank you for the info/link! VERY cool, helpful & inspirational info! (as a side note - I never fit the obese profile, it kind of stumped the docs, nor do I have common facial hair from it.)

Now Odyssey! "girlfriend!" now why you gotta say that about our sex drive ;)
I'm FINALLY getting my grove back on now that my kid is 4! I soooo did not want to hear that (I'm being playful, ok, truthful too, ha, ha!)

Jokes aside, very interesting connections being made about the iron and toxin slothing..... very interesting indeed.

It's culturally telling that there have been NO studies regarding the issues we're bringing up about frequency and times of sex in relation to seasonal menstruation.

Smart detective work going on all around by you guys, ehem, i mean girls (osis for now)!

 

[Hildegarda]

I remember a discussion in an endocrinology course about modern women having three times number of
periods compared to hunter gatherers and that may be contributing to some gynecological problems including cancers. They attributed more periods to less pregnancies and childbirth but I wondered if diet plays a role. Some researchers believe it does. Though they link the cancer to increased fat intake. However, years ago the nation of islam had a pamphlet on women's health that claimed monthly menstruation is not typical or natural, though other non-human primates also have heavy cyclic menstrual bleeding.

Fwiw, up to 19th century there appeared to be no known hygienic contraptions in use to contain menstrual flow. Menses being pretty obvious and uncomfortable, you'd think people would have come up with something.

Thank you also for the info on Mali people and their menstrual rites. Some other tribes or cultures around the world had similar traditions of sequestering menstruating women, and I always wondered: with all the women spending a few days each month in those huts, who's doing the cooking and tending the house? the work doesn't stop! :)

Seems that indeed menses were a very rare event back then. Pregnancies and extended nursing definitely had played a role. But there's got to be something else at work too.

I feel this is very important. The key to the women's role in society and to having power over their inner and outer lives lies very much in being able to control their own fertility. In the absence of artificial contraception and in a more harmonious society, something else must have been in place.

 

[Gaby]

There was a great Best of the Web article about PCOS and the paleo diet. Interesting how fiber also is brought up:

The Paleo Diet Cures PCOS
Peggy Emch
The Primal Toad
Wed, 24 Aug 2011 08:26 CDT

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/233984-The-Paleo-Diet-Cures-PCOS

The choice to change our diets often happens when doctors have failed us, medicine isn't working, and there seems to be no hope of recovery from modern illness.

For many of us it's weight gain. For some it's joint pain or depression. For women it's usually some set of hormonally related symptoms.

Simply eliminating packaged foods and switching to a whole foods approach works for many, but a lot of us can't seem to achieve any semblance of health without taking an evolutionary approach to our diet and lifestyle.

We are finding that the silver bullet for most modern afflictions is the Paleo/Primal diet. The Primal eating strategy and lifestyle almost miraculously brings us back into balance and restores health and happiness.

This is what happened to me. All of my life I suffered from a condition called polycystic ovarian syndrome, or PCOS, and I cured it with diet.

This hormonal condition affects about 4 million women in the US alone. While there are synthetic drugs meant to control it, they often don't thoroughly eliminate symptoms and many of us end up looking to diet and herbs for the cure that our doctors never offered.

What is PCOS

PCOS is a hormonal imbalance. In women with PCOS the ovaries produce too much male hormones (androgens), making it difficult for the ovaries to release an egg. The increase in androgens can cause a host of embarrassing and debilitating symptoms.

Symptoms of PCOS

Irregular or absent periods

Pelvic pain

Cysts on the ovaries

Infertility

Depression

Acne

Weight gain

Facial hair growth (hirsutism)

Sleep apnea

Causes of PCOS

Like with every other modern health condition PCOS can be avoided or controlled by diet and lifestyle changes. (Genetics can predispose a person to develop the condition but genetics are rarely the cause of disease. Check out this article on Mark's Daily Apple for more information about the relationship between genetics and disease.)

Insulin Resistance

While there are many factors which can predispose a woman to develop PCOS such as obesity, genetics, and exposure to synthetic estrogen, insulin resistance is the root cause of polycystic ovarian syndrome, which is a totally avoidable and treatable condition.

Insulin resistance comes about from a constant need for the body to lower blood sugar with insulin. In time, the cells become desensitized to it. This is problematic in two ways:

When cells are desensitized to insulin the pancreas produces more of it - thinking that the reason the cells aren't taking glucose is because there isn't enough insulin.

Insulin helps glucose pass through cell walls. When cells become resistant to insulin glucose must make its way to the liver to be converted to fat instead of being used as energy by the cells.

Now you have excess insulin floating around in the bloodstream. This free-floating insulin stimulates the ovaries to produce excess testosterone. This prevents the ovaries from releasing an egg each month (a leading cause of infertility).

Hormones are in delicate balance. When one gets out of whack, the others must compensate in order to keep us alive (this is called homeostasis). This "compensation" results in symptoms.

Xenoestrogens

Pollution, exposure to plastics, other chemicals, and conventional beef treated with synthetic hormones can also contribute to hormonal imbalances because they contain xenoestrogens (synthetic or environmental estrogens). These environmental estrogens wreak havoc on our delicate hormonal processes by tricking the body into thinking that there is too much estrogen, causing it to produce excessive amounts of other hormones in attempt to balance it out.

The Vicious Cycle of PCOS

"The secretion of insulin from pancreatic beta cells is a complex process involving the integration and interaction of multiple external and internal stimuli. Thus, nutrients, hormones, neurotransmitters, and drugs all activate - or inhibit - insulin release." From Medscape.

"An extended period of physical or psychological stress, will produce stress hormones such as cortisol and adrenaline, that can interfere with the synthesis of the brain neurotransmitter, Serotonin." From The Seratonin Connection

High levels of insulin can cause the body to dump magnesium into the urine which is needed in order to produce serotonin. Without high enough levels of serotonin we can feel depressed and are subject to food cravings (refined carbohydrates make tryptophan more available for the body to utilize which is a precursor of serotonin).

Fluctuating blood sugar levels can trigger the release of adrenaline which causes the liver to produce glucose in expectation of the brain needing extra fuel (flight or fight). This can in turn trigger the release of insulin which, when not properly utilized and is left free-floating in the blood, can increase testosterone, leading to all the nasty symptoms of PCOS.

Excessive Weight training or low body weight can also increase the production of stress hormones and, consequently, androgens.

Food allergies and intolerances compromise the absorption of nutrients, causing a cascade of symptoms. Even if you're doing everything right with diet and lifestyle, if you don't absorb the nutrients, you can't heal. Of course, it is often nutritional deficiencies which cause allergies in the first place, but once they've surfaced the nutritional deficiencies continue because the body can't absorb the nutrients it needs to heal from them. Many women who have PCOS also have food sensitivities. This is a really common correlation.

A high carbohydrate diet, allergies, and a diet which includes lots of processed, dead foods can, in time, imbalance gut flora. For some, the extra fiber that we have been told to increase is actually a problem for people with digestive problems and it can be helpful to cut down or even eliminate it altogether for a time.


How to Control PCOS

Most women will find that a simple move to the Paleo diet will balance their hormones and free them from the ugly symptoms of PCOS. But for some of us the road to recovery is a little longer because our bodies have been damaged for so long and by so many different variables.

The Paleo diet eliminates the elements of modern eating that leads to insulin resistance. These foods include grains, added sugars, artificial chemicals, and processed oils. And it adds back into the diet many of the missing links to recovery like protein, saturated fat, and added nutrients.

Some women will need to be more strict than others but in general there are some things to avoid when recovering from hormonal imbalances.

Keep carbohydrate intake low, no more than 80 grams a day. For many it may need to be as low as zero.

Avoid foods that you are intolerant to.

Avoid vegetable oils to balance omega6 and omega3.

Avoid dairy.

Avoid grains.

Avoid processed foods of all kinds.

Avoid artificial ingredients.


Things to help ensure adequate nutrition and recovery:

Eat organs.

Drink bone broth.

Eat oysters and other highly nutritious seafood.

Eat eggs (if well tolerated).

Take cod liver oil, magnesium supplements, and B-vitamins.

Get sunshine.

Exercise lightly every single day.

Eat lots of saturated fat to avoid cravings and improve mood.

Don't eat anything that will impair digestion.

Relieve stress.

Reduce fiber (helpful for some women).

For a more personal glimpse into my own experience with PCOS please visit my blog. Mine was a tough case and I had to resort to some pretty extreme dietary measures to get it under control.

 

[Danse la vie]

It makes me wonder whether eating the quantity and quality of food that is actually appropriate for our bodies isn't a natural way of controlling population growth.

The message is perhaps: there's food, there's genetic variety, there are material goods abound, there's plenty (even excess) to reproduce. Would it be the other way around, the message could be: there is sufficient, but not abound. We need to awaken all "internal systems" to continuously monitor internal bodily functions and limit reproduction accordingly.

In the time when humanity was turned into a herd of consumers, they not only became consumers of goods, excess food, they were in the same process turned into consumers of human. That's the tragedy behind the tragedy.
The women also had to be rendered available for consume, it was key for the slavery. What better way to make them available for consume than switching off their power of monitoring their bodily functions ?
Turning women into a mechanic for “reproduction” with a regular “period”, what better way of making mankind oblivious of what Love is ?
What better way to transform life givers into birth givers ?

If the body 'feels' well fed and is working optimally in most if not all areas, and people are showing signs of improvement, to me, the changes in the female cycle would follow suit. The same may hold true for what we believe about bathroom functions, to put it nicely. According to mainstream society, we are led to believe that we should be going at least twice a day. On an all meat/fat diet, this isn't the case. I don't see this as the body withholding this function but rather using the fuel that is given in it's most optimal way. Maybe it's the same with menses?

I don’t either see that as the body witholding this function, but as woman being given the chance to integrate that she has the power to activate this « function » which is actually far more than a function, when Love is shared.

Danse la vie

 

[mcb]

...Some other tribes or cultures around the world had similar traditions of sequestering menstruating women, and I always wondered: with all the women spending a few days each month in those huts, who's doing the cooking and tending the house? the work doesn't stop! :)
...

Other women. From what I have read it was a different social structure, with more people living together, across several generations. There was less isolation. Even now it seems to vary with the culture, from what I can see happening with my coworkers.

 

[Hildegarda]

Other women. From what I have read it was a different social structure, with more people living together, across several generations. There was less isolation.

of course, but there are many times when all hands are needed on deck. Berries ripening and needing to be harvested, salmon coming up the river. Or, in a case of a more settled society, lambing, sheering, trading time, etc. Considering especially that the periods of menstruating women living together tend to synchronize. Once in a while it can happen, but to have it happen all the time seems unrealistic.

 

[Adaryn]

What is the "normal" average age for menarche and menopause is the question.

What is definitely abnormal in any case is that girls have their periods more and more at a younger age today. Some even have signs of puberty at 8, 6 or even younger.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/girls-hitting-puberty-early-age-study-suggests/story?id=11345321&page=2

 

[Laura]

I started at age 12, on my birthday; menopause began (as far as I can tell in 98/99; finished the last round a few days after my birthday in 2003 at age 51. I think I was a hormonal mess for much of my life and things were particularly bad during the years when we were eating the most carbs, now that I think about it. I had cysts and an ovary removed when I was 25.