Paris Olympic Mascots are Phrygian Caps

[Joe]

Just adding this note because I don't think it was mentioned here yet. The reason the French olympic mascot is a phrygian cap is that the national symbol of France - Marianne - has always worn a phrygian cap.

 

[Gallo]

Just adding this note because I don't think it was mentioned here yet. The reason the French olympic mascot is a phrygian cap is that the national symbol of France - Marianne - has always worn a phrygian cap.

Yes, since Louis XVI lost his head...

 

[BHelmet]

Here is a very nice compilation and overview of the Phrygian Cap thing by Jarid Boosters. He makes one glaring error in misnaming Turkey (Anatolia) as Hungary right at the beginning, but other than that, it is the most comprehensive overview with images and all the various narratives and hypotheses that I have found.

 

[Benjamin]

From etymonline:

tyrant (n.)

c. 1300, "absolute ruler," especially one without legal right; "cruel, oppressive ruler," from Old French tiran, tyrant (12c.), from Latin tyrannus "lord, master, monarch, despot," especially "arbitrary ruler, cruel governor, autocrat" (source also of Spanish tirano, Italian tiranno), from Greek tyrannos "lord, master, sovereign, absolute ruler unlimited by law or constitution," a loan-word from a language of Asia Minor (probably Lydian); Klein compares Etruscan Turan "mistress, lady" (surname of Venus).

Originally in Greek the word was not applied to old hereditary sovereignties (basileiai) and despotic kings, but it was used of usurpers, even when popular, moderate, and just (such as Cypselus of Corinth), however it soon became a word of reproach in the usual modern sense. The unetymological spelling with -t arose in Old French by analogy with present-participle endings in -ant. Fem. form tyranness is recorded from 1590 (Spenser); Medieval Latin had tyrannissa (late 14c.).

In reading the masterful book Where Troy Once Stood, on p.222 Wilkens mentions that the word ‘Runes’ means ‘mysteries’. A few days later, I remembered that there was a rune and god named Týr (whom Wilkens briefly mentions on p.359), said to be one of the oldest Germanic gods concerned with the formalities and treaties of war and justice, guarantor of contracts and guardian of oaths. He was known as the ‘one-handed god’ after having his right hand bitten off by Fenrir (Hey Týr, if you want it back, talk to Sabazios.). The Romans associated him with Mars. The rune 'Tiwas' was ideographically represented as a spear.

I then thought that ‘Tryannus’ could actually be two words thus becoming ‘Tyr’ and ‘annus’. I looked on Glosbe for ‘annus’ but there was nothing, nor was there anything I could find in the Greek. But, in Latin, there was ‘anno’, which should be recognizable to many by ‘anno domini’- ‘in the year of our Lord’. But Glosbe adds that ‘anno’ is actually an alternate form of ‘adno’ which means ‘I swim to’ or ‘brought by the sea’. Tyrannus -> Tyr-annus -> Tyr-anno -> Tyr-adno: ‘the god Tyr brought by the sea’.

The Týr wiki mentions that several place names throughout Scandinavia have retained the name such as Tyrseng (‘Týr's meadow’ near a stream called Dødeå, ’stream of the dead') in Viby (which may mean 'the settlement by the sacred site’), Jutland, Denmark.

Also, I'll just say that the Phrygian cap is looking very 'Odysseus' to me.

 

[lindrie]

You can add Scythians to the list of of those who wore the Phrygian Cap:

 

[Benjamin]

Following the research from Iman Wilkens book Where Troy Once Stood, if we are to accept that Phrygia was located in Turkey then it would actually be Phrygia III (via migration), since Phrygia II (p. 96) is currently called Scotland, and the 'original' Phrygia (p. 129) is said to be located in northern France and western Belgium (c. 1200 BC). He also shows that ‘Phrygian’ is the Germanic ‘Frisian’ (Frisii) who spoke a different language from the Celtic tribes but apparently shared the same gods.

There have been many references to the ‘Phrygian cap on a pole’ being equated with decapitated heads spiked to shafts set in the ground. Perhaps that is where it comes from but I propose another interpretation.

The Latin letter ‘L’ comes from the Phoenician lāmd (𐤋) of the Semitic abjads (a writing system using only consonants) which was inspired by the shepherd’s crook.

On the left is Nanine Vallain's 'Liberty' from 1793-1794. On the right are some contemporary shepherd's crooks.



S21- June, 1997

Q: One thing I do want to understand, since it is involved in all of this, is the idea of the 'Shepherd.' All of the ancient legends and stories and myths lead, ultimately, to something about the 'shepherd,' or the 'Shepherd King.'

A: Shepherd is most likely to be struck by lightning, due to staff, and thus "enlightened," or "illumened!!"

Q: Funny spelling! But, what is the contrast between the concept of the shepherd and the agriculturalist? This goes back to the very roots of everything? There is Cain and Abel, Jacob and Esau, Isaac and Ishmael...

S30- March, 2002

(V) I'll start with the Reiki symbol that we received once at a previous session. {shows symbol drawn on a piece of paper} This was the way it was drawn out and at the time it was drawn, we were told that it was close enough as though maybe it wasn't exactly as it was supposed to be. I am wondering if this is closer than this? (comparing proposed alternatives) In other words if the spiraling inside of the...

A: Match corners to outside spiral, neither inside nor outside.

Q: (V) Okay, I think I understand now. The other question I have about this symbol that I thought was very curious is in this center part there is an L, is there any significance to that?...well, I'm sure there is significance...

A: Crook shape signifies movement into higher dimension.

Q: (V) Next question: Is repeating the names of the symbols, which I guess is like a mantra which is a no-no here, as effective as repeated use of the symbol? Does it go either way?

A: No. Important part is the geometry.

Q: (V) So the use of the symbol is putting a geometric equation into the person's body...

A: Think of it as soldering in a new circuit.

Q: (V) New circuit as in DNA?

A: More like transducer of higher consciousness. If DNA changes result, it depends on the application.

S13- July, 2002

A: No. The "sexual center" corresponds to the solar plexus.

Lower moving center - basal chakra

Lower emotional - sexual chakra

Lower intellectual - throat chakra

Higher emotional - heart chakra

Higher intellectual - crown chakra

Q: (L) What about the so-called seventh, or "third eye" chakra?

A: Seer. The union of the heart and intellectual higher centers.

{Laura's note: This would "close the circuit" in the "shepherd's crook” configuration.}

S25- March 2017

(L) Yeah, and then lower intellectual is the throat chakra, higher emotional is the heart, and higher intellectual is the crown chakra. And then when I asked about the 7th or the Third Eye, they said that's the union of the heart and intellectual higher centers. That closes the circuit in the "shepherd's crook”.

I'm wondering if the Phrygian cap and the Shepherd's crook aren't trying to illustrate the same thing, that of the Seer.

Here are two Insular Croziers from c. 1100-1000 AD Scotland. They kinda look like horse heads with styilized dogs for manes.


Here are two of six known pieces being described as shepherd's crooks or sceptres, made of bronze and dated to c. 1050-1200 BC. The top one from Cypress (Cypriot) is the only version where the tip is turned into a scroll.


On p. 296 of WTOS:

Tlepolemus [from Ephyre, southwest Spain] and his followers must have settled this region and given it the name that became Helvetia. It was certainly seafaring Celts who gave the name to Switzerland, as it is the only place-name in Europe beginning with Hel- that lies so far from the Helle sea, the Hellespont. It is also known that the Swiss are decedents of a Celtic tribe, the Helvetti, mentioned by Roman historians. The founder of Helvetia was thus Tlepolemus, 'the tall and handsome son of Heracles', who was wounded in the Trojan War (Il. V, 627).

Here is the coat of arms for the city of Basel, Switzerland, c. 13th century. Could this emblem show a memory of an important centre of Druidic rites 2,500+ years ago?




There is a sarcophagus known as The Hercules Sarcophagus (Kayseri) (there are many 'Hercules Sarcophogi') that depicts the Twelve Labours of Hercules (Heracles). It's been dated to 150-160 AD, housed at the Kayseri Archaeological Museum in Turkey. According to Wilkens, like the story of Odysseus, the Twelve Labours is also a tale of initiation.



These mirrored two in Phrygian caps are standing on either side of the door to the underworld with legs crossed, covering their abdomens and pointing to their throats.



Here are 3 coins issued during Titus' reign for the city Iconium (Konya) in Lycaonia (or Phrygia), depicting Perseus wearing the 'Cap of Hades', aka: the 'Cap of Invisibility'. Wilkens (Part III, Ch. 11, p. 200) finds Hades to be the island of Walcheren (Valkyrie), Zeeland, southwest Netherlands, a significant region of Druidic rites (Circe/Circle).



When I did a search on the forum for 'shepherd's crook phrygian cap', one (out of four) result was the most interesting:

• Latin Aquarius is a loan translation of Udrokoos, 'the water-pourer', the original Greek name for this constellation. The figure of Aquarius was said by the Greeks to be a representation of the Trojan boy Ganymedes who Zeus in the form of an eagle, (representing the rise towards Heaven), kidnapped from Mount Ida in Phrygia while tending a flock of sheep, giving horses, (also often closely symbolically associated with water) in compensation (a clue here – think Pegasus, which I will touch on later). He spent his time thereafter as the cup bearer of nectar for the Gods in Olympus and was often depicted wearing a Phrygian cap (clue) and carrying a shepherd’s crook (clue). His sacred cup became the constellation Krater (long associated with the Holy Grail).

Wilkens mentions the stories recorded in the Iliad and Odyssey by the poet Homer (along with many other stories, I'm sure) being shared (and modified) by bards and performers.

Thalia was one of the Greek Muses being the goddess of comedy and idyllic poetry. She is sometimes portrayed with a shepherd’s crook. Here she holds a mask and a crook in a fresco from Pompii.



Here is a glazed earthenware statue titled Camel with Musicians, c. 618-907 AD, Chang’an (Xi’an), China. It apparently depicts four Sogdian troubadours (of diminutive stature, or that's one giant camel). After watching the video from BHelmet above and the mention of the Phrygian cap being made from the scrotum sack of a bull, I gotta admit these look a bit like that. Maybe that idea is coming from this statue?



Also from the same time period is the Sogdian Dancer found at Shandan, Gansu Province.

The Iranian from Tashkent appears young.
He dances to the music holding the wine goblet, as rapid as a bird.
He wears a cloth cap of foreign make, empty and pointed at the top,
His Iranian robe of fine felt has tight sleeves.
—Liu Yanshi (d. 812)

 

[Benjamin]

Earlier I had shown some Campanian Mercenary coins with a spiky Phrygian cap stamped on them for the city of Taurmenion, Sicily.

I had also run into several other coins that I discarded, but now have more interest because of the Punic inscription of 'MMHNT'. For example, this coin from Sicily, c. 300-320 BC, shows Dido said to be wearing a pleated Phrygian cap. The Punic inscription translates to SH’MMHNT, which further translates as ‘people of the camp’.




I read a little passage from Wilkens on p. 208 that made me think of this group:

As we know, Hades, the Underworld, was guarded by several monsters (which symbolize the monsters in our subconscious), such as Cerberus and Campe (Greek Kampe) who can also be retraced on the island of Walcheren. At the entrance of the port of Veere, there is a medieval building called the ‘Campveersetoren’ meaning ‘Tower of the monster Campe’ (11) which looks out over an adjacent island across the waters where we find Kamperland (Land of Kampe) which, on older maps is shown as Campe(n), after the female monster which was slain by Zeus.

Kamperland is a village in the Dutch province of Zeeland about 11km northeast of Middleburg where, on p. 196, Wilkens writes, “Middleburg- Capital of Zeeland, the most likely site for the ‘town of the Cimmerians’.

The Cimmerians, said to be a nomadic Iranic people who were practically indistinguishable from the Scythians, are believed to have invaded Phrygia (III) around 675 BC. I don't even know if a Phrygia existed in Turkey anymore (I find this whole thing very confusing), but my point is that there is a Greek vase that apparently depicts Cimmerians (or Scythians) that I posted once before.

Campanian Mercenaries in Sicily and Cimmerians in Turkey. But if one looks at a map from where Wilkens says they came from, the distance is about 11 km with the region Walcheren (Hades) right beside. These two groups look like they might come from basically the same place. It's maybe too long of a shot to wonder if the cap could as well?

 

[stellar]

On the left is Nanine Vallain's 'Liberty' from 1793-1794. On the right are some contemporary shepherd's crooks.

I'm willing to go out on a limb and suggest that the cap may symbolise a crown on the shepherds crook and all that it suggests symbolically; balanced chakras, spiritual attainment, perhaps stoic rule over one's senses and emotions. A physical, outward mark of the inner completion of the shepherds crook. FWIW
Corrupted over time, of course.

 

[Benjamin]

I'm willing to go out on a limb and suggest that the cap may symbolise a crown on the shepherds crook...

Earlier on, I told my mom about this cap, Mên, the coins and so forth. She, pretty quickly, referred to the cap as a crown which I had not thought of. I then started to wonder if it was like a type of halo.

 

[Benjamin]

As I proposed earlier, the ‘Tyrannus’ part of ‘Menotyrannus’ looks to be coming from Tyrrhenia. The Tyrrhenians have been equated with the Etruscans and they look to have migrated through Macedonia from Lydia, although that is argued. Here is an account from Pliny as to the migration story of the Tyrrhenians. I’ve left a few footnotes at the end because I thought they were interesting but the main focus is the migration.

Plin. Nat. 3.8:

Next to this comes the seventh region, in which is Etruria, a district which begins at the river Macra, and has often changed its name. At an early period the Umbri were expelled from it by the Pelasgi; and these again by the Lydians, who from a king of theirs1 were named Tyrrheni, but afterwards, from the rites observed in their sacrifices, were called, in the Greek language [2], Tusci. The first town in Etruria is Luna [3], with a noble harbour, then the colony of… and Cære [20] itself, four miles inland, called Agylla by the Pelasgi who founded it…

[1] For an account of this see Herodotus, B. i. c. 94, Tacitus, Ann. B. iv. c. 55, and Velleius Paterculus, B. i. c. 1. These writers all agree as to the fact of the migration of a colony of Lydians under the conduct of Tyrrhenus to the part of Italy afterwards called Etruria. This subject however, as well as the migrations of the Pelasgi, is involved in the greatest obscurity.

[2] From the Greek verb θύειν "to sacrifice," he implies:—from their custom of frequently sacrificing, says Servius, on the Xth Book of the Æneid. Dionysius of Halicarnassus says that they were from their frequent sacrifices called θυόσκοοι. [sacrificing priest, prophet; drawing omens from the smoke of burnt-offerings] These are probably fanciful derivations; but there is no doubt that the people of Etruria were for several centuries the instructors of the Romans in the arts of sacrifice, augury, and divination.

[20] The remains of this once powerful city are marked by the village of Cervetri or Old Cære. According to Strabo it received its name from the Greek word χαῖρε “hail!" [rejoice, be glad] with which the inhabitants saluted the Tyrrhenian or Lydian invaders. It was to this place that the Romans sent their most precious sacred relics when their city was taken by the Gauls. Its most interesting remains are the sepulchres, of which an account is given in Dennis's Etruria.

Here is the same account in Strabo.

Strab. 5.2:

The Tyrrheni have now received from the Romans the surname of Etrusci and Tusci. The Greeks thus named them from Tyrrhenus the son of Atys, as they say, who sent hither a colony from Lydia. Atys, who was one of the descendants of Hercules and Omphale, and had two sons, in a time of famine and scarcity determined by lot that Lydus should remain in the country, but that Tyrrhenus, with the greater part of the people, should depart. Arriving here, he named the country after himself, Tyrrhenia, and founded twelve cities, having appointed as their governor Tarcon, from whom the city of Tarquinia [received its name], and who, on account of the sagacity which he had displayed from childhood, was feigned to have been born with hoary hair. Placed originally under one authority, they became flourishing; but it seems that in after-times, their confederation being broken up and each city separated, they yielded to the violence of the neighbouring tribes. Otherwise they would never have abandoned a fertile country for a life of piracy on the sea, roving from one ocean to another; since, when united they were able not only to repel those who assailed them, but to act on the offensive, and undertake long campaigns.

Here is the oldest account of the same story from Herodotus.

Herodotus 1.94:

The customs of the Lydians are like those of the Greeks, except that they make prostitutes of their female children. They were the first men whom we know who coined and used gold and silver currency; and they were the first to sell by retail. [2] And, according to what they themselves say, the games now in use among them and the Greeks were invented by the Lydians: these, they say, were invented among them at the time when they colonized Tyrrhenia. This is their story: [3] In the reign of Atys son of Manes there was great scarcity of food in all Lydia. For a while the Lydians bore this with what patience they could; presently, when the famine did not abate, they looked for remedies, and different plans were devised by different men. Then it was that they invented the games of dice and knuckle-bones and ball and all other forms of game except dice, which the Lydians do not claim to have discovered. [4] Then, using their discovery to lighten the famine, every other day they would play for the whole day, so that they would not have to look for food, and the next day they quit their play and ate. This was their way of life for eighteen years. [5] But the famine did not cease to trouble them, and instead afflicted them even more. At last their king divided the people into two groups, and made them draw lots, so that the one group should remain and the other leave the country; he himself was to be the head of those who drew the lot to remain there, and his son, whose name was Tyrrhenus, of those who departed. [6] Then the one group, having drawn the lot, left the country and came down to Smyrna and built ships, in which they loaded all their goods that could be transported aboard ship, and sailed away to seek a livelihood and a country; until at last, after sojourning with one people after another, they came to the Ombrici, [Umbri] where they founded cities and have lived ever since. [7] They no longer called themselves Lydians, but Tyrrhenians, after the name of the king's son who had led them there.

The Lydians, then, were enslaved by the Persians.

Manes is said to be an early 2nd millennium king of Lydia as is his son Atys. From Atys, there were two sons, apparently confirmed by Xanthus, the native Lydian historian, named Lydus and Tyrrhenus (although Xanthus writes his name as Torrhebus/Torubus- Herodotus and the Reconstruction of History). ‘Lydia’ comes from the name of the son who stayed. The “after sojourning with one people after another’ comment might seem a bit out of place from Lydia to the west side of Italy in the Mediterranean which lead to the idea that these migrating people were following the European coastline south.

Now, Herodotus mentions the previous name of the Lydians.

Hdt. 7.74:

The Lydian armor was most similar to the Greek. The Lydians were formerly called Meiones, until they changed their name and were called after Lydus son of Atys.

The capitol city of the Meiones is said to be Sardis but Homer says it’s Hyde. (Hom. Il. 20.373) On p. 338 of WTOS, Wilkens positions the city of Hyde in the Hyden Hills region of Britain, near East Meon saying the Maeonians were a tribe from the Meon Valley region which is in Hampshire, England. I also think of Hyde Park which is one of the eight Royal Parks in London.

I also run into the ‘Pillars of Hercules’ mentioned in relation to the Tyrrhenian Sea. (Also: App. Hisp. 1, carthago-geo)

App. Praef. 1:

[3] Crossing from these coasts they rule other nations around the Euixine, the Mysians of Europe [wait…aren’t they supposed to be in northwest Turkey?] and the Thracians who border that sea. Beyond Ionia are the Ægean sea, the Adriatic, the straits of Sicily, and the Tyrrhenian sea stretching to the Pillars of Hercules. This is the distance from Ionia to the ocean. Following the coast line we find the following countries subject to the Romans: all of Greece, Thessaly, and Macedonia, also the adjoining Thracians, the Illyrians, and Pannonians, and Italy itself, the longest of all, extending from the Adriatic and bordering the greater part of the Tyrrhenian sea as far as the country of the Celts (whom the Romans call Gauls), some of whom border the Mediterranean, others the Northern ocean, and still others dwell along the river Rhine; also all of Spain and Celtiberia on the Northern and Western oceans as far as the Pillars of Hercules. Of these I shall speak more particularly when I come to deal with each nation. But for the present let this suffice for the principal boundaries which define their empire along the sea.

Appian is obviously talking about the Mediterranean but what I want to draw attention to is the mention of the Tyrrhenian sea stretching to the Pillars of Hercules. On p.142, Wilkens locates these ‘Pillars’ in the Strait of Dover rather than the Strait of Gibraltar.

The next quote has the Argonauts heading to see Circe. I’ve kept one of the footnotes because, again, I thought it was interesting but the description of the locations are important.

Apollod. 1.9.24:

When the Argonauts were already sailing past the Eridanus river, Zeus sent a furious storm upon them, and drove them out of their course, because he was angry at the murder of Apsyrtus. And as they were sailing past the Apsyrtides Islands, the ship spoke, saying that the wrath of Zeus would not cease unless they journeyed to Ausonia and were purified by Circe for the murder of Apsyrtus.[1] So when they had sailed past the Ligurian and Celtic nations and had voyaged through the Sardinian Sea, they skirted Tyrrhenia and came to Aeaea, where they supplicated Circe and were purified.[2]

[2] Compare Ap. Rhod., Argon. iv.659-717 who describes the purificatory rites. A sucking pig was waved over the homicides; then its throat was cut, and their hands were sprinkled with its blood. Similar rites of purification for homicide are represented on Greek vases. See Frazer on Paus. 2.31.8 (vol. iii. p. 277).

In the Mediterranean the Sardinian Sea and the Tyrrhenian Sea are separated by the islands of Corsica and Sardinia. The island of Sardinia and the Ionian town of Sardis seem to be linked.

Hdt. 1.7:

Candaules, whom the Greeks call Myrsilus, was the ruler of Sardis; he was descended from Alcaeus, son of Heracles; Agron son of Ninus, son of Belus, son of Alcaeus, was the first Heraclid king of Sardis and Candaules son of Myrsus was the last. [3] The kings of this country before Agron were descendants of Lydus, son of Atys, from whom this whole Lydian district got its name; before that it was called the land of the Meii.

Sardis, situated on the Ionian coast, was the capitol city of Lydia c. 7th century BC.

Hdt. 1.170:

When the Ionians, despite their evil plight, nonetheless assembled at the Panionion [Ionian sanctuary], Bias of Priene [c. 6th century, one of the Seven Sages of Greece], I have learned, gave them very useful advice, and had they followed it they might have been the most prosperous of all Greeks: [2] for he advised them to put out to sea and sail all together to Sardo [Sardinia] and then found one city for all Ionians: thus, possessing the greatest island in the world and ruling others, they would be rid of slavery and have prosperity; but if they stayed in Ionia he could see (he said) no hope of freedom for them.

There is also another story (among the convoluted mess of stories) about the inhabitants of Sardinia.

Paus. 10.17.6:

[6] When Troy was taken, among those Trojans who fled were those who escaped with Aeneas. A part of them, carried from their course by winds, reached Sardinia and intermarried with the Greeks already settled there.

In this dictionary entry, The authour is describing the Argonaughts journey to the island of Circe.

argonautae-harpers:

The heroes [the Argonaughts] sail up the Danube into the Adriatic, and are within hail of Corcyra (Corfu) when a storm breaks out, and the piece of oak from Dodona foretells their ruin unless they have the murder of Absyrtus expiated by Circé. Hence they sail up the Eridanus into the Rhone, and so into the Tyrrhenian Sea to the island of Circé, who purifies them.

The location of Sardinia beside the Tyrrhenian Sea, and it's connection with Sardis (Hyde) is what I'm getting at. As a side note, understanding that, according to Wilkens, Circe is located in Zeeland, Netherlands, the Argonauts can’t be in the Mediterranean.

And again here.

3.311:

[311] Κίρκην: the home of Circe, the Homeric Αἰαίη, was early identified with the Circeian promontory in Latium on the Tyrrhenian Sea; [see: Hes. Th. 1011, Cf. 4. 850.]

The position of Circe's island being either located in the Tyrrhenian Sea or needing to be crossed to get to it, I thought, was interesting. Here is a definition that places the island of Circe in the Tyrrenian Sea.

Aeaea:

Aeaea , ae, f., = Αἰαίη, acc. to fable,

I. the island in the Tyrrhene Sea where the Circe of Homer had her abode, and where, acc. to Plin. 3, 5, 9, § 58, the later Circeii was situated, now called Monte Circello. Acc. to Mela, 2, 7 med., it was the abode of Calypso.

There is also a second definition for Aeaeus (magic arts).

Aeaeus , a, um, adj., = Αἰαῖος.

Belonging to Æa, in Colchis, Colchian: “Circe, since Circe is said to have been earlier in Colchis,” Verg. A. 3, 386; Ov. M. 4, 205.— Hence,

B. Transf., belonging to Circe: “artes,” magic arts, such as Circe practised, Ov. Am. 2, 15, 10: “carmina,” magic words, charms, spells, id. ib. 1, 8, 5.—

II. Aeaea puella, Calypso, because she had her residence in Aeaea, Prop. 4, 11, 31.

Now, here is the first mention of the Tyrrhenians which is found on the last page of Hesiod’s Theogony:

Hes. Th. 1003:

And Circe the daughter of Helius, Hyperion's son, loved steadfast Odysseus and bore Agrius and Latinus who was faultless and strong: also she brought forth Telegonus by the will of golden Aphrodite. [1015] And they ruled over the famous Tyrsenians, very far off in a recess of the holy islands.

I’m not sure where the ‘holy islands’ are but I immediately thought about Zierikzee and the Zeelandic Islands. At the same time I also thought about Stonehenge. But the famous Tyrsenians? The Trojans? Or, perhaps, a generalised term for the ancient (specifically seafaring?) peoples on the British Isles and maybe the Netherlands?

This map from p.337 of WTOS shows Wilkens' depiction of England around the time of Troy. I've added a second map to show what I was trying to propose in this post. Getting to Circe seems to require, at least, the Tyrrhenian Sea to be crossed. I've proposed a location for this on the maps below. #27 on the map is Wilkens' location of Hyde (aka: Sardis).






As an end note, reading WTOS, I started to see names that felt similar to other names such as Agamemnon and Armageddon, Myrmidon and Mamertine, and a really bonkers one. The town that Circe was identified with, Zierikzee, had other spellings: Zierixzee, Sierckzee, and Zircze. I had to giggle in disbelief at the similarity of the name of Darius the Great’s successor, Xerxes.

 

[Benjamin]

I don't feel very good about the previous post. I don't think I'm on the right track with it. It's more complex then I'm giving it. For instance:

I did a search this morning for TYR and got Thyrsus or Tyrsus. The thyrsus is a "Bacchic wand wreathed in ivy and vine-leaves with a pine-cone at the top". But it's also a river or stream, which could also be a river of fire or lava, and got personified as a river-god. It alos happens to be the Latin name for the most significant river in Sardinia, Tirso.

Then I come across a collection of Norse legends known as the Tyrfing Cycle featuring the magic sword Tyrfing which is exhibited on the coat of arms for Bolmsö parish. Bolmsö is an island in lake Bolmen in Småland, Sweden. On this island, there are large barrows, stelae, stone circles and a large stone ship. Apparently there is evidence through a farm with the name of Hof that supports there was once a pagan blót temple on the site. Blót is the Old Norse term for 'blood sacrifice'. The PIE form of the noun is *blōtą, "sacrifice, worship".

So, I don't think the Tyrrhenian Sea is the English Channel.

 

[Benjamin]

The name 'Mên' has been on my mind for awhile. It's really short and that makes it difficult to make much sense out of. One thought that I had was that it was part of a longer name that, at some point, got shortened, but I'm not sure about that. I looked into definitions to see what I could find.

In ancient texts, the Greek word μήν (men) is just a word grammatically used as an asseverated particle, which is a function word that gives another word an affirmative or positive meaning. It's a particle that always 'looks forward', never 'looking backward'. In this case, it has a definition of 'verily, truly'.

At the same time, this word has the definition of month/moon.

The 'same' word spelled μής (mes) is part of βουλεύω (take council, deliberate) and μήδομαι (to be minded, intend). Etymonline says the PIE root meaning of 'men (1)' is 'to think' evidenced from other languages with meanings like mind, thought, spirit, sage, seer, prophet, idea, to believe, madness, remembrance, etc.

Again, the 'same' word spelled μείς (meís) carries the same definition of month and moon but seems specific to a crescent moon and a specific time of the month. It also mentions the 1-2 century Latin god Lunus (Luna) which is the Greek Μήνη (Mēnē) which means the same as the moon goddess Selene (Σελήνη). The lower case version is μήνη (mēnē) and has two definitions. The first is moon but with the personified allusion as a goddess (see Homer's Hymn 32 to Selene). The second (spelled: μῆνις (mē̂nis)) means 'wrath', usually 'of the gods' but also 'of Achilles' and also 'revengeful temper of the people'. I find it interesting that Menelaus' name (translated as 'abiding-men') can also be translated as 'wrath of the people' (μένος (menos) 'vigor, rage, power', and λαός (laos) 'people').

Menelaus, brother of Agamemnon, was the king of Sparta and ruled Lacedaemon (southwest Spain). Herodotus writes in book 2, chapter 118-119 this account of Menelaus' journey to recover Helen from Troy only to find she and his stolen gold was in Egypt.

Enough, then, of Homer and the Cyprian poems. But, when I asked the priests whether the Greek account of what happened at Troy were idle or not, they gave me the following answer, saying that they had inquired and knew from Menelaus himself.[2] After the rape of Helen, a great force of Greeks came to the Trojan land on Menelaus' behalf. After disembarking and disposing their forces, they sent messengers to Ilion, one of whom was Menelaus himself.[3] When these were let inside the city walls, they demanded the restitution of Helen and of the property which Alexandrus had stolen from Menelaus and carried off, and they demanded reparation for the wrongs; but the Trojans gave the same testimony then and later, sworn and unsworn: that they did not have Helen or the property claimed, but all of that was in Egypt, and they could not justly make reparation for what Proteus the Egyptian had.[4] But the Greeks, thinking that the Trojans were mocking them, laid siege to the city, until they took it; but there was no Helen there when they breached the wall, but they heard the same account as before; so, crediting the original testimony, they sent Menelaus himself to Proteus.

Menelaus then went to Egypt and up the river to Memphis; there, relating the truth of the matter, he met with great hospitality and got back Helen, who had not been harmed, and also all his wealth, besides.[2] Yet, although getting this, Menelaus was guilty of injustice toward the Egyptians. For adverse weather detained him when he tried to sail away; after this continued for some time, he carried out something impious,[3] taking two native children and sacrificing them. When it became known that he had done this, he fled with his ships straight to Libya, hated and hunted; and where he went from there, the Egyptians could not say.

Along with Menelaus, there's another name that stood out for me. Menes (Narmer) of Egypt (the northern France version) who is credited to have unified upper and lower Egypt. A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology has this to say about Menes:

Menes (Μένης). This is the most usual form of the name, which, however, we also find written as Menas, Menis, Meinis, Men, Min, and Mein (Μηνις, Μηνις, Μεῖνις, Μῆν, Μιν̂, μεῖν). Menes was the first king of Egypt, according to the traditions of the Egyptians themselves. Herodotus records of him that he built Memphis on a piece of ground which he had rescued from the river by turning it from its former course, and erected therein a magnificent temple to Hephaestus (.Pthah). (Comp. Diod. 1.50; Wess. ad loc.) Diodorus tells us that he introduced into Egypt the worship of the gods and the practice of sacrifices, as well as a more elegant and luxurious style of living. As the author of this latter innovation, his memory was dishonoured many generations afterwards by king Tnephachthus, the father of Bocchoris; and Plutarch mentions a pillar at Thebes in Egypt, on which was inscribed an imprecation against Menes, as the introducer of luxury. There is a legend also, preserved by Diodorus, which relates (in defiance of chronology, unless Mendes is to be substituted for Menas), that he was saved from drowning in the lake of Moeris by a crocodile, in gratitude for which he established the worship of the animal, and built a city near the lake called the City of Crocodiles, erecting there a pyramid to serve as his own tomb. That he was a conqueror, like other founders of kingdoms, we learn from an extract from Manetho preserved by Eusebius. By Marsham and others he has been identified with the Mizraim of Scripture. According to some accounts he was killed by a hippopotamus. (Hdt. 2.4, 99; Diod. 1.43, 45, 89; Wess. ad loc.; Plut. De Is. et Osir. 8; Perizon. Orig. Aegypt. 100.5; Shuckford's Connection, bk. iv.; Bunsen, Aegyptens Stelle in der Weltgeschichte, vol. ii. pp. 38-45.)

The name Min comes from Herodotus, 2.4.2:

[2] Furthermore, the Egyptians (they said) first used the names of twelve gods (which the Greeks afterwards borrowed from them); and it was they who first assigned to the several gods their altars and images and temples, and first carved figures on stone. Most of this they showed me in fact to be the case. The first human king of Egypt, they said, was Min.

And in 2.99.2 onwards:

[2] The priests told me that Min was the first king of Egypt, and that first he separated Memphis from the Nile by a dam.

The mention or the City of Crocodiles gets into the Labyrinth that Laura writes about here (full article starts here). There is also the Minotaur and king Minos of Crete. There is also the Maenads, which, returning to Etymonline, says they are a "priestess of Bacchus," literally "madwoman" from stem of mainesthai "to rage, go mad," from PIE *mnyo-, suffixed form of root *men- (1) "to think". On the last page of the article, Laura talks about these wild dancers much more then here.

Laura writes:

As a side note, we would like to draw attention to the fact that Daedalus, the “great architect,” was connected to a king named Minos. Another king named Menes was alleged to be the great unifier of Egypt, builder of the great city of Memphis, and a famous temple of Hephaestus there.

Discovering a great architect connected, even indirectly, to a great unifier of two kingdoms and builder of a great Temple on the one side, and connected to another king with a similar name, and builder of a great labyrinth which is connected to a "power in the center," - the Minotaur, keeping in mind the legends of the building of Stonehenge, the "cloisters of Ambrius" where the god danced all night in the center around 3100 BC, certainly raises certain questions.

As a side note, Min was an Egyptian fertility god akin to the Greek Priapus (who also wore the Phrygian cap). But more interesting was a reference to a group of mercenaries or pirates known as the 'Sons of Min' that I ran into a while ago. The problem is that I can't find that reference anymore. I only know it exists because I remember thinking at the time, "Ok, now I have two pirate groups that start with 'Sons of': the Sons of Mamers (Mamertines) and now the Sons of Min." But until I can find it again, it's pretty much nothing, but I thought I'd add this anyway.

On p.258 of SHotW, Laura writes:

Worship of the moon is recorded in the oldest literatures of Egypt, Babylonia, India and China- and is still practiced today in various parts of the world, particularly among certain African and Native American groups. The expersts will tell us that Moon worship is founded on the belief that the phases of the moon and the growth and decline of plant, animal, and human life are related. in some societies food was laid out at night to absorb the rays of the moon, which were thought to have power to cure disease and prolong life. Among the Baganda of central Africa it was customary for a mother to bathe her newborn child child by the light of the first full moon. The moon has also been associated with wisdom and justice, as in the worship of the Egyptian god Thoth and the Mesopotamian god Sin. The moon has also been the basis for many amorus legends and some superstitions (madmen were once considered to be moonstruck, hence the term lunatic). ...

The interesting points are that the rays of the moon were anciently thought to have the power to cure disease and prolong life and confer wisdom. These are motifs of both the Holy Grail and the Philosopher's Stone. ...

On p. 178, Laura writes this little bit on Narmer (Menes):

Indeed, the worship of the goddess, is the older form of worship in Egypt. But all of that came to an end, probably with the conquest of Narmer, the building of the temple to Hephaestus, the demoting of the goddess and the Moon calendar, and the instituting of the Solar worship and the solar calendar of 365 days.

The last name that caught my attention was Menestheus who was the king of Athens (present day Cherbourg) who fought on the side of the Achaeans against Troy. There was also a youth of the same name from Sounion who was sacrificed to the Minotaur in the Labyrinth on Crete. There was also two men named Menesthius, one who was a Myrmidonion leader, and the other who was a man killed by Paris in the Trojan War.

An interesting, though much later, translation I found was in Old Norse where 'men' means necklace (mani-kold = necklace-gold [-> marigold!]), treasures, jewels. There are some other clever phrases given as examples such as: "men jarðar, earth’s necklace = the sea; men Karmtar, island necklace = [an island in] the sea; lyngva men, necklace of the bush = a serpent [in a bush]; men storðar, the earth’s men = the world serpent" (sounds like Oroboros). Also, in Old English, 'mene' translates as "1: necklace; collar, 2: ornament, jewel". A different word in Old English that also came up was 'mennen, mennenu' which means 'handmaiden, slave'. I went back to Old Norse and looked up 'slave' and found one of the words was "Man (B): A bondman, prob. originally of prisoners of war who were sold as slaves (Irish in the west, Finns and slaves in the east)". This word also (Man (II)) refers to a maid, a bondwoman, who would usually become a mistress of the master. There is also "man-sal: a ‘man-sale,’ slave trade, slave-selling".

The Latin name for this deity "Mên" is Mensis (moon/month). But the cognate word (if I'm reading this correctly) mēnsus (from the parent mētior ("measure")) has many declensions, another of which is mēnsa, with its main definition being 'table' (and is where we get the word 'mesa', an isolated flat-topped ridge or hill, from). It also means 'alter', specifically the flat-topped surface, or 'sacrificial table'. There were probably many uses for mēnsa but I thought this example was interesting: "A stand or platform on which slaves were exposed for sale: “servus de mensā paratus,” App. M. 8, p. 213; id. Mag. 17, p. 285, 15." It made me think of the singular description I mentioned earlier for Mên as the 'god of slaves’.

When it comes to a necklace, there are many types worn around the neck, but in this case I thought about the torque and the slave collar.

On this page, Laura quotes from this article about Cernunnos, a horned god (which makes me think of the crescent moon as 'horns coming out' of Mên's shoulders, which also makes me think of the Persian 'Zahhak the Snake Shoulder'):

One of the earliest representations of a Horned God in a purely Celtic context is a rock carving from Val Camonica in northern Italy. The God is portrayed standing upright wearing a long garment and carrying a torc, the collar-shaped necklace of divine authority.

On the Slavery wiki, it mentions this:

Slavery predates written records and has existed in many cultures. Slavery is rare among hunter-gatherer populations because it requires economic surpluses and a substantial population density. ... slavery became widespread only with the invention of agriculture during the Neolithic Revolution about 11,000 years ago.

The explanation for slavery being rare in hunter-gatherer populations because of a lack of economic surplus and population density felt weak. I wondered if there was no slavery because of this found also on p. 258:

Suppose a civilization existed that did not need cities, agriculture, wheels or writing? That is not to say they did not produce goods en masse, nor that they did not produce food for large groups, or that they did not travel over vast distances or record their exploits. But, suppose they did not do it in the way we would expect? Suppose the STONES DID IT ALL?

 

[Benjamin]

I had the thought that I should expand my searches of 't-y-r' to 't-i-r' and see what happens. There was a lot of reading and confusion, but one of the immediate places I came across was Tiryns. It's mentioned in the Catalogue of Ships being located in Boeotia to the southeast of Argos which puts it in Spain. Strabo talks about it:

Stra. 8.6:

Now the Catalogue contains the following: "And those who held Argos, and Tiryns of the great walls, and Hermione and Asine that occupy a deep gulf, and Troezen and Eiones and vine-clad Epidaurus, and the youths of the Achaeans who held Aegina and Mases." ... [Hom. Il. 2.546]

Now it seems that Tiryns was used as a base of operations by Proetus, and was walled by him through the aid of the Cyclopes, who were seven in number, and were called "Bellyhands" because they got their food from their handicraft, and they came by invitation from Lycia.

Strabo is talking about the Greek Tiryns which was in ruins by his time. Pausanias mentions that the walls of unwrought stones were also built by the Cyclopes and were so big that two mules pulling together couldn't move one. He also compares the Egyptian Pyramids as being no less marvellous then the treasury of Minyas and the walls of Tiryns.

Cyclopes is translated here as 'Bellyhands', but the other version is 'Gasterocheires'. A footnote (40) breaks it up into the Greek words γαστὴρ the belly, and χεὶρ, the hand. Following the links, γαστήρ also means ‘womb’. χείρ- ‘the hand’, also refers to any implement resembling a hand including a gauntlet, which I right-away thought of Sabazios. Interestingly, the definition for *man- (2) is "hand".

Anyway, something else that was attached to Tiryns was Heracles, which isn't really suprising because there are so many Heracleses attached to many places and people. Heracles, or Hercules in this case, is often called Tirynthius which means 'of Tyrins', and thus, 'of Hercules', and is said to be his early home.

Now, in Herodotus 2.42, there was a footnote that mentioned:

The Greeks identified with Heracles an Egyptian god Shu (called at Thebes Chonsu-Neferhotep,ἀαγαθοδαίμων).

Chonsu (Khonsu) was an Egyptian moon god.

Again, in Herodotus 2.63, where he describes a bizarre Egyptian ritual, another footnote mentions:

It is uncertain what Egyptian deity Herodotus identifies with Ares. In a Greek papyrus, “Ares” is the equivalent for the Egyptian Anhur, a god, apparently, not clearly differentiated from “Shu” or “Heracles.”

Shu was the Egyptian god of air. His 'job' was to hold up Nut (the sky goddess) to keep the sky from falling. But what I find most interesting (now) is his headdress.



The 'Phrygian cap' wiki lists many of the places where that cap shows up and Egypt was one of them. As limited as my searches have been, I have never found a cap that looks like it in Egypt, probably because I didn't know what I was looking for. Found at the Kom Ombo Temple (180-47 BC), this headdress depicts the Shu-feather, said to be from an ostrich, that is stuck into, I'm guessing, a tiara or a crown as if it's situated at the top of his head. You can clearly see the form of a shepherd's crook. Now, this feather has another name found on the head of his 'sister', Maat, called 'Maat's feather' or 'The Feather of Truth'. The erliest example of Maat comes from the Pyramid Texts of Unas, ca. 2375 BCE and 2345 BCE)






Maat is the goddess of truth, balance, order, harmony, law, morality, and justice and is well known for 'weighing of the hearts' of the dead in the underworld. If their hearts were as light or lighter then Maat's feather, they lead a virtuous life and could pass into the Aaru, heavenly paradise. An unworthy heart was eaten by Ammit and the owner condemded to stay in the Duat, the underworld. Blahblahblah.

But notice, if you compare Shu/Maat's feather to the Phrygian cap, it's reversed. The curl at the top is pointed to the back, not the front.

From a much longer post, Laura mentions this:

Session 21, June 1997
Q: Change of subject: I am tracking the clues through the various languages and alphabets. I would like to know which of these alphabets, Runic, Greek, or Etruscan, preceded the others, and from which the others are derived?
A: Etruscan.
Q: Well, who were the Etruscans?
A: Templar carriers.
Q: What does that mean?
A: Seek and ye shall find.
Q: Well, how am I supposed to do that? I can't find anything else on the Etruscans!
A: No.
Q: What do you mean 'no?' You mean there is more out there on the Etruscans?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay. What are Templar carriers?
A: Penitent Avian Lords.

Session 16, Aug. 1997
Q: We have the phoenix, cranes, herons, doves, ravens, and all are related somehow to speech or writing. Why are all these birds related this way?
A: Pass the test.
Q: What do you mean 'pass the test?'
A: Discover.
Q: Well, writing is related to the words for cutting and inscribing and even shearing and sharks. You called the Etruscans 'Penitant Avian Lords,' who were also 'Templar Carriers.' Is this related to these bird images? Then related to speech, writing and shearing?
A: Pass the test.
Q: So, if you are writing, and you pass the test, then you can be a phoenix, dove or whatever?
A: Discover.
Q: Ark suggested that the Etruscans may have gotten their alphabet as a mirror image. Could it be that they lived on the 'other side' of the mirror?
A: Latter is closer.

We see in the above the amazing juxtaposition of “Avian” or “birdlike” with “Templar.” The Templars were designated in certain of the Grail legends as “Guardians of the Grail.” So again we find a connection between the Holy Grail and a thread that travels back in time to Central Asia and Stonehenge.

The flight of a bird was often seen as a shaman in an out-of-body state or as a guardian spirit in bird form. The myths of farseeing messenger birds have been preserved in many traditions, including the birds released by Noah and Odin’s ravens. The imagery of birds was later transferred to arrows, and from there to sticks or staves, and then to runes.

Shu/Maat's feather made me think of the 'language of the birds'. The 'Tir/Tyr' rune is that of an arrow. The Tyrrhenians were Etruscans.

I just want to mention that the feather shows up on the Atef crown of Osiris, god of the underworld.



Also, in the list of Egyptian Hieroglyphics, there are apparently 20 different forms of the written feather of which only two were shown here. I don't know if it means anything, but I thought the hieratic (3200-3000 BCE) feather looked a bit similar to the 'Hades' version (with wings?) of the Phrygian cap on the coins I posted above.

 

[Benjamin]

Blahblahblah.

I had to go shopping, but about 20 mins. after I wrote that, I realised that I might have thrown the baby out with the bath water. I was thinking about the death/heaven/hell bit and the 42 Laws of Maat. I missed the "Pass the test" comment by the C's. The 'weighing of the heart' is a test and Maat, an 'avian lord'.