Plane Crashes
- Thread starter SeekingtheTruth
- Start date
The crashed aircraft in question is 737-800, not the defective MAX version. I've heard from multiple source this crash is very unusual because the plane was travelling at normal cruise speed and altitude, there were no distress mayday calls, no unusual weather nor other planes flying in dangerous proximity, it just changed trajectory like it plummeted nose down as if it had lost its wings. This plane is one of the most popular of the 737 series with excellent safety record. I will be watching the developments closely because at this time there was no apparent catastrophic mechanical failure to speculate with. However, it went down in China, so , we don't know how much we gonna receive info wise from their authorities, if they are going to let Boeing or international experts investigate the cause in China.
XPan
The Living Force
Yes, i think i remember that the very sudden, lethal crashes of some Boeings 737 happened in the 90s somewhere because of a dual valve failure. Because of thermal chock between the cold valve and the hot fluid or something.
Creating the “perfect crime” by blocking the dual valves due to ice crystals - jamming the rudder, sending the planes into a steep, unrecoverable nosedives. Horrible accidents.
In the 10 years ongoing investigations, it puzzled everyone trying to find the smoking gun: because those dual valves passed all tests and had no traces or malfunctions. (The ice crystals melted, and with that, the evidence).
Until one plane again got a rudder jammed and temporarily went into a spin - but then recovered as the rudder became unjammed - able to land safely. That is when they discovered after a decade the culprit of those sudden jammed rudders.
Let me see if i can find something like a link.
Ah, here it is, at Wikipedia.
The Ethiopian Airliner and Indonesian Lion Air plane (Boeing 737 MAX) were of a different model with different (design and software) problems.
The Germanwings airplane which got crashed into the French Alps, as a Airbus 320 (-211) model.
Considering the amount of flight hours these planes do, and this one is a relatively new one, 7 years old or so they say, this is a very uncharacteristic mysterious failure akin to the Airbus 320 crash in the Alps and the Malaysian flight 370 , both cases suspiciously deemed as suicide missions by plane. I just can't see how ice crystals can cause such a wild dramatic rudder movement so the rudders in both wings lock up spontaneously in a nose dive position unable to recover as if the rudder controls were taken over by something to deliberately crash the plane. If the plane was landing and the rudders get stuck or hard to control then yes, it may cause a catastrophic crash, it had happened on take offs too, but at cruising altitude 30k feet? The flight originated from a densely populated urban area like Kunming (6 million people) most people never heard of, to Guangzhou, a major trade center which GDP is roughly 1/4th the size of Russia, say, it is the equivalent to a flight from Phoenix to Chicago but 5 times the size of population, just to give you some perspective.
I agree that somethings with this crash is not adding up, just to many anomalies.
Here's just a few items. But obviously one can connect to flightradar24 for other insightful observation's.
And they are technical and a bit bizarre. With mathematically spoke terms that defy the explanations.
Luo@luojungui
6:26 AM · Mar 21, 2022
A person close to China Eastern Airlines revealed that the #MU5735 was piloted by three pilots, the captain had 7,000 hours of flying experience and the co-pilot had 30,000 hours. Another is a trainee pilot with 300 hours.
@luojungu and @flightradar24
10:13 AM · Mar 21, 2022
An unconfirmed message from a pilot who was near MU5735 at that time : ATC was aware of the #mu5735 flight anomaly then and contacted them immediately but no response there.
Here's just a few items. But obviously one can connect to flightradar24 for other insightful observation's.
And they are technical and a bit bizarre. With mathematically spoke terms that defy the explanations.
Luo@luojungui
6:26 AM · Mar 21, 2022
A person close to China Eastern Airlines revealed that the #MU5735 was piloted by three pilots, the captain had 7,000 hours of flying experience and the co-pilot had 30,000 hours. Another is a trainee pilot with 300 hours.
@luojungu and @flightradar24
10:13 AM · Mar 21, 2022
An unconfirmed message from a pilot who was near MU5735 at that time : ATC was aware of the #mu5735 flight anomaly then and contacted them immediately but no response there.
XPan
The Living Force
Malfunctions in the tail…
The lockup of the dual valves causing those sudden 737 plane crashes, happened in the tail, not in the wings. You can’t steer the angle of the plane if the rudder in the tail locks up into the opposite position.
Similar (albeit a totally different failure) happened with Alaska Airlines 261 - a MD-83 McDonnell Douglas crashed in year 2000 over the sea of Los Angeles.
Here too the failure happened in the (t-)tail. The issue was that the jackscrew there wasn’t lubed for a very long time - which caused it to grind to a halt and jam. As the pilots tried to solve the problem, the (only) nut that held the jackscrew in place, broke away. From that moment the flight was doomed. The flaps in the t-tail went all the way into the upward and beyond position forcing the nose down. It crashed with its nose straight into the water.
So, anything that concerns the tail of an aircraft, is iffy business and many airplanes have crashed due to (different) but tail related malfunctions.
An airplane that went down over Queens right after 9/11 also had an rudder issue due to wrong usage by the crew. It ultimately broke away and the aircraft from that point became uncontrollable. The captain tried to counterbalance of what he thought was wake turbulence but used the rudder for it - which caused extreme stresses - and ain’t recommended to be used like that. It actually intensifies the impression of being caught in a “wake turbulence” even stronger when you use back rudder - so he jacked it from left to right and to the opposite several times thinking he got stuck in the turbulence. But was actually causing it.
The tail fin/rudder broke away, and the aircraft cashed into the residential area.
And speaking of crystals in the dual valve - it is an extreme precision piece of equipment steering the tail rudders functions. It is by design free from any particles in the fluid, but even the smallest amounts of any particles, creates trouble. It is not totally out of the blue to believe that when you cruise at high altitudes, that you have extreme low temperatures.
Sometimes airplanes can’t fly over the north pole or regions at certain heights in certain temperature conditions, because it is too cold, dropping below a certain threshold - crystals appear in the fuel pipelines which at the connection points with filters, can cause flame out due to fuel starvation.
This happened to a flight , British Airways flight 38, in 2007 (?) landing in London, at which at the most crucial moment right before the final landing procedure, couldn’t get any power from the engines - and crash landed.
Ok, it could've been hit by a meteor(s), the wave, mossad, cia, the avionics were messed up, probably not the engines but maybe not, not gonna look more into any more in this thread
XPan
The Living Force
I didn’t mean to claim to know the reason for the crash of the Chinese airliner. So please, i meant no offense, Stefan !
That being said, I agree with you; the recent crash could have been caused by anything, really. Mossad and similar entities being behind it, may not be out of the question, either. The investigation will take time until we get an explanation - and then ponder about, if that really makes sense or not.
Regarding past airplane crashes… We usually only get the official explanation of what caused a crash, but never know what really caused them. The airline industry is known of having veiled the true reasons for quite a lot of crashes in the past. A classic is design failure. The way they handle these things in the 70s and 80s was called “tombstone politics” (it required deaths in order to finally change a serious design fault). Crashes were considered “the cost of doing business”. Very cynical… The kind of sociopathic attitudes common in big businesses.
Or perhaps there was remote interference and for a brief moment the pilots had control again?
Per this article the aircraft climbed for about 10 seconds at some point after a lengthy plunge.
Could this have been a "message" to China?
In 2020 when I went through what some call the “dark night of the soul” (which was more than just one night btw), one of the things that I was “told” was that the evil ones have the ability to control automobiles remotely.
I was given a description of my car and an iPad was mentioned as being able to control my car while I was driving it. It was quite scary and eye opening about circumstances that we live in.
Anyway, when I heard about the plane crash and saw the video I went back to it was remotely brought down. This is strictly my opinion or I should say thought that came to mind.
That's what I was thinking, and then I saw this in the news today:
Romanian F-16s Intercept Turkish Airlines Flight From Moscow To Istanbul After Bomb Threat
So, maybe it is a warning to everyone not taking part in the recent campaign to demonize Russia and hurt her in concert with the "international community".
I just don't want to venture "way out there" deep into any of the conspiracy theories people might dwell into, and there are plenty of those, I just wanted to point out how strange this crash was that resembles the Airbus crash in the Alps and the Malaysian 370 from which we had never retrieved the black box probably lost forever if they ever find the wreckage.
If you refer to cutting edge technologies in relation to big business, obviously any big corporation for profit or state owned enterprise would look into any possible ways to cut corners, cut operating costs in the ever increasing competitiveness especially in the airlines market share, that includes supply chain, maintenance costs, etc down to pilots errors to save fuel, meet impossible schedules, loss of mental alertness, all for getting flight credits etc, the list goes on and on, the bigger the enterprise is, the harder it is to oversee and regulate the standard operating procedures per the company's code as licensed by their respective state. There is also one common trait we all human share which is called laziness you know. The reason why we see much less fatalities per flights a day is because we had learned from past mistakes, with the exception of the MAX fiasco which was solely on Boeing, lawsuits were brought against them. One might say, hey, but we want Boeing out of the Chinese market to send a message to Beijing not to help Russia in the war etc, you know. If you start thinking that way, you may start believing in mirages, even though they might turn out true, but the confirmation bias will always be there even if proven wrong, there will always be elements of a doubt that can cloud the objective reality as it is.
Majority of reported accidents in the past were reasonably explained after months or even years of investigation, actually a lot of those were contributed to pilots error, makes sense, there is a reason why there are at least two pilots on each commercial plane. Heck, even Titanic was considered a technological marvel, the unsinkable ship until they found out it was not, but too late. Even the Soviets in the early days of their aviation industry had suffered a lot of losses.
XPan
The Living Force
Well, at this very early stage, everything is indeed, and will be for quite some time, just speculation.We may get reminded of similarities to other airplane crashes, but nothing we know for sure regarding China Eastern Flight MU5735.
We can of course collect what we observe, hear and listen, sense, and get from other observations and sources bits and pieces of information along the road (collecting observations). Like a detective… step by step, and see how it crystalizes. And then take it from there…
I believe it is ok to discuss thoughts about this crash here, whether it is called speculation, conspiracy and/or collecting information. There is always somebody who knows something… And sometimes to think outside the box, as well.
The power of networking.
I also agree with you that many aircrash accidents have been reasonably explained. But then again - a dozen of “rotten eggs” have been “explained away” with pretty reports or were totally covered up.
Such as 9/11, Boeing MAX accidents, Germanwings flight 9525 crash in the alps, Malaysia 370, of course also Malaysia Airlines flight 17 over Ukraine, Egypt Air 990, TWA flight 800, Lockerbie disaster 1988 through Pan Am flight 103 (a very shady, very strange case and with interesting people on board) and several others.
Regarding both Malaysia Airline crashes / disappearances, I wonder if Israel and the US had a finger in it - because Malaysia held a Warcrime Tribunal (2012) by which it found Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, John Yoo, Jay Bybee, Alberto Gonzalez, David Addington and Willian Haynes II guilty for War Crimes. Did the supporting elite take revenge back at Malaysia by downing Malaysia Airlines 370 in year 2014? And why was another Malaysia Airliner, again chosen in the same year to be a target over Ukraine ? Two flies in one hit, perhaps, since Israel had it’s big fingers in the game, too (as they did with 9/11 via USA) at the same time playing together with the US, shady games and future war plans with Russia via their new “toy” Ukraine (2014).
It seems that yes, some countries do initiate crimes via airplane crashes, as if sending out “greetings cards”, like a reminder…
Let’s keep an eye on the case of China Eastern Flight MU5735
