Plasma-based magnetohydrodynamic propulsion apparatus - Distraction from real UFOs?

[bjorb]

[quote author= gambeir]Just know this: You are helping me to refine and to understand so that someday I may be able to explain understandably
[/quote]

I really doubt that I have the smarts to ever understand how it works. But I appreciate the effort. :)


[quote author= gambeir]They can if they want to I suppose. I will allow it. However I also don't recommend it either.[/quote]

''I won't recommend it but go in anyhow is not something any test pilot wants to hear'' ;)


Maybe it is that 'easy' to make it work. But theories or knowledge about this tie in with the UFT I believe. (Theory about everything and stuff) and weird things can happen while inducing strong electromagnetic fields. Things that can point out that time, creation, and our consciousness is part of some illusion.

They can't have this truth ruling in academic circles. Our religion of believing only in being materialistic keeps us egoist, self serving and close minded. Just the way 4STS wants it.

I suspect that 4STS rather sees us busying ourselves with primitive rocket engines. It keeps us from discovering higher truths.


+15 years ago a Dutch inventor claimed he found a remarkable effective way to compress digital data. He already signed contracts with the big boys of industry. Days after he had an hearth attack and on that moment his invention and all relevant equipment disappeared from his attic. People close to him couldn't understand how this was possible, one moment, the attic was full of stuff and a short moment after, everything was gone. Totally cleansed.

Any huge technological advancements can have a big impact on our timeline. I reckon 4STS keeps a close eye on that.

Inventions can chance the World, and while you do powerfull enemies are always lurking in the schadows. Enemies most people don't even know that they exist.

 

[Janek]

Thank you for the comments. I have been fearful that people would not want to understand. That to do so is to remove the wonder and mystery surrounding UFO's. It does not. Now about trying to explain this ~Apparatus~ I brought this here, to this forum, because it is a unique forum. It is still visible to the general public here, and because there are people here and people who visit that will innately grasp the device.

I ask for their help. I want their help, and it's their duty to help; to explain and show how this works. No one should hold back. Please do correct, modify, add explanations and images. This is the way forward; to help others understand. I am assuredly not capable, or will shortly hereafter demonstrate my incompetence, hopefully sufficiently enough that these silent others cannot stand it any longer and be provoked into action.
:)

Asking me to explain this is akin to expecting a Chimpanzee to make a good drink, but here goes....


You can use an electromagnetic field to produce a propulsive force. Basically, if you apply an electromagnetic field to a conductive material you will induce a repulsive force (*at a right angle) by way of a phenomena called mutual induction. This is basically how an electric motor works.

To understand this better is to understand that when an electromagnetic field is applied to any conductor, it will result in a phenomena called mutual induction, and this supposed phenomena of mutual induction induces a series of currents running in opposition to that of the original electromagnetic field. These are called Eddy Currents.

Now the conductor can be anything which can conduct electricity, like a copper wire for example, but air is also conductive, as well as water. Saltwater is more conductive than fresh water. For our purposes air has to be enriched/helped/thickened before it become useful for levitation by repulsive electromagnetic fields. This is because air is 780 times less dense than water.

So this is what the job of the ion emitter is all about. Emitting Ions to enrich the surrounding air makes the air more conductive, or thicker if you like, therefore like a plasma, and because we are going to charge these ions with a suitable charge we can then use the magnetic field to either attract or repel this charged field. If we apply an electromagnetic field to this conductive field the phenomena of mutual induction induces a force (repulsive) at a right angle and thus the ionized field of air plasma produces a repulsive force upon the electromagnetic field. The repulsive force is a result of eddy currents which arise in the conductor when the conductor has a magnetic field applied to it as previously described.

*(Eddy Currents are used in testing materials for flaws. Say for example to check for flaws in metal)

We are using a superconductive magnet because we want a really powerful magnetic field to make sure we capture all these ions which are being ejected by the field emitter, presumably from somewhere's around the top of the vehicle. So basically, as I currently understand it, the ion field is attracted to the superconducting magnetic field, which is downwards, and as it passes in plane with this magnetic field, there is brought about a repulsive force via the so called Eddy Currents which arise in the conductive Ion Field, and which act in opposition to the magnetic field and thereby push away from the magnetic field with their own induced magnetic field.


I think I've got this about right.

In order for this to have any significant effect we have to have a very thick air, and this is what James F. King is referring to as a plasma and also he calls it a fluid. Which is common BTW. See, it's so thick that it is acting like a plasma fluid, as in a liquid like plasma as in the form of plasma of blood for example. We are not yet talking about a plasma as in the form of a flame, as the plasma of lightning is, but perhaps later this idea will manifest itself.

Now, once we understand how ionized air is used to produce a repulsive force for levitation, then we can move forward with the purpose of the capacitors across the bottom of the vehicle. Again, I probably haven't explained this entirely correctly and I urge corrections.

I think I catched Your idea, more or less. I must say it's quite a challange for my imagination to catch how would look magnetic field around circle superconductor, then how would flow induced eddy currents around it, then how would look induced magnetic field around those eddy currents and then how would look interaction between those two magnetic fields :P. However, becouse of the symmetry of this system I'm almost sure that all magnetic forces would reduce each other, the resultant force acting on the vehicle would be zero, and it wouldn't move anywhere. That's my opinion anyway.

 

[gambeir]

[quote author= gambeir]Just know this: You are helping me to refine and to understand so that someday I may be able to explain understandably

I really doubt that I have the smarts to ever understand how it works. But I appreciate the effort. :)


[quote author= gambeir]They can if they want to I suppose. I will allow it. However I also don't recommend it either.[/quote]

''I won't recommend it but go in anyhow is not something any test pilot wants to hear'' ;)


Maybe it is that 'easy' to make it work. But theories or knowledge about this tie in with the UFT I believe. (Theory about everything and stuff) and weird things can happen while inducing strong electromagnetic fields. Things that can point out that time, creation, and our consciousness is part of some illusion.

They can't have this truth ruling in academic circles. Our religion of believing only in being materialistic keeps us egoist, self serving and close minded. Just the way 4STS wants it.

I suspect that 4STS rather sees us busying ourselves with primitive rocket engines. It keeps us from discovering higher truths.


+15 years ago a Dutch inventor claimed he found a remarkable effective way to compress digital data. He already signed contracts with the big boys of industry. Days after he had an hearth attack and on that moment his invention and all relevant equipment disappeared from his attic. People close to him couldn't understand how this was possible, one moment, the attic was full of stuff and a short moment after, everything was gone. Totally cleansed.

Any huge technological advancements can have a big impact on our timeline. I reckon 4STS keeps a close eye on that.

Inventions can chance the World, and while you do powerfull enemies are always lurking in the schadows. Enemies most people don't even know that they exist.
[/quote]

Good and fair observations bjorn. I read your comments the other day and have given some thought to them. I was not ignoring them. I have found that often it is best to take a timeout in order to really give some meaningful thought to things.

One thing that strikes me is that if the 4STS are keeping a close eye, as you say, on the affairs of peon's like myself, then that would suggest to me that the people who do have these vehicles are in contact and working with the 4STS. Now me, being a somewhat flighty part-timer here on Cassiopaea and not entirely informed as they say, then perhaps you have some thoughts or explanations about such alliances? I'm only a semi-intentional part-timer by the way. It's just a condition of still being a little a boy running from one pretty stone to the next along the sandy beach of time. It's not malicious or anything.

Of course there are enemies, which is why I posted the images here, where the public can see them and perhaps they will be helpful to some. Are there other places this information exists, well of course. Though I must say that one of my first thoughts after having deduced the operation of this design was Cassiopaea, and because I think there are persons who can better comprehend the images and what I may have managed to communicate. However, reflection may show that it might have been more involved and that perhaps it was the unrecognized abilities of those here that I unconsciously most valued, and I think now that has been validated to my satisfaction. I am happy with the choice.

As for the unseen enemies, the story of Rudolf Diesel is a case in point, but there are many more of course.

Rudolf Christian Karl Diesel was a German inventor and mechanical engineer, famous for the invention of the diesel engine. The story line we know is he fell off a steamer while crossing the english channel; Sept 29, 1913. Supposedly this was done by German Intelligence who wanted to keep it a secret for use in their submarines. Sounds plausible huh? Probably more like having to do with getting access to the patent rights or something as the looming war promised large profits.

 

[gambeir]

I think I catched Your idea, more or less. I must say it's quite a challange for my imagination to catch how would look magnetic field around circle superconductor, then how would flow induced eddy currents around it, then how would look induced magnetic field around those eddy currents and then how would look interaction between those two magnetic fields :P. However, becouse of the symmetry of this system I'm almost sure that all magnetic forces would reduce each other, the resultant force acting on the vehicle would be zero, and it wouldn't move anywhere. That's my opinion anyway.

Oh they aren't my idea's. I'm a mechanical man living in an electronic age. A man out of time. One who would be much happier in the steam age or with sailing ships rather than with levitating flying machines operating on forces which I cannot see and can barely comprehend. I've only communicated what "I think" I understand, and that's a significantly different from knowing what I'm talking about.

Thank you very much nonetheless.

Now I think what you've said is very interesting. Certainly worth noting since the designer and patent holder James F. King who's patent I cited in the original post does show a "plurality" of superconductive magnets functioning as the solenoid driver. I too noticed this apparent divergence from this concept. I have yet to study superconductive magnetic solenoids to make sense of this divergence, but the CERN project has many of these drivers. It is supposedly what CERN is all about. Not that I'm up for believing that one, but that's the official story line we are told: Smashing stuff with super accelerating superconductive magnets.

Bear in mind here. I used Mark McClandlish's drawing because this is where a challenge began to decipher how it might work. I think I succeeded in doing that, at leas in so far as the drawing itself is accurate. What you're suggesting is entirely possible, and in no way should anyone consider the Flux Liner, or ARV to be a working blueprint, but it does have all the necessary parts and seems to have the general shape correctly outlined so as to serve as a kind of model for those who wish to understand how such machines can work. Not might work, but can work, and that's where the real significance lies.

There are several good video's on the ARV or what is often called the Flux Liner on Youtube. This one is just Mark McClandlish talking about who he is, his life work as an defense contractor illustrator, and how this all lead to his drawing.

 

[Minas Tirith]

I don't think that should you happen to see a UFO you would see the "real thing".

You will probably see a holographic image of a flying object that you can comprehend as a futuristic machine in your own time's technology advancement.

Imagine a 1940s guy seeing a StarTrek model - completely incomprehensible, what the heck, he would probably get a heart attack - so his holographic image resembles something of what we see today as a vintage model.

This has nothing to do with the "real" thing and its technology behind the holograph - they don't operate in time, so there is no latest edition or the like...

Don't know if I am making sense ...

M.T.

 

[Janek]

Now I think what you've said is very interesting. Certainly worth noting since the designer and patent holder James F. King who's patent I cited in the original post does show a "plurality" of superconductive magnets functioning as the solenoid driver. I too noticed this apparent divergence from this concept. I have yet to study superconductive magnetic solenoids to make sense of this divergence, but the CERN project has many of these drivers. It is supposedly what CERN is all about. Not that I'm up for believing that one, but that's the official story line we are told: Smashing stuff with super accelerating superconductive magnets.

Yes, superconductors are used in CERN as electromagnets, but their role is basically to keep speeding particles to go in circles. Lorentz force indicates that. What is accelerating particles are actually condensators genereting electric field. It is not the same as it would be in case of the vehicle that You presented at these drawnings.

Bear in mind here. I used Mark McClandlish's drawing because this is where a challenge began to decipher how it might work. I think I succeeded in doing that, at leas in so far as the drawing itself is accurate. What you're suggesting is entirely possible, and in no way should anyone consider the Flux Liner, or ARV to be a working blueprint, but it does have all the necessary parts and seems to have the general shape correctly outlined so as to serve as a kind of model for those who wish to understand how such machines can work. Not might work, but can work, and that's where the real significance lies.

There are several good video's on the ARV or what is often called the Flux Liner on Youtube. This one is just Mark McClandlish talking about who he is, his life work as an defense contractor illustrator, and how this all lead to his drawing.

It's hard for me to tell how such vehicle would work, but as I said, simply by putting circle electromagnet into the cloud of ionized partcles wouldn't make this electromagnet to levitate. All I can say is that it's not working that way.

 

[Duke]

Hi Guys, These are some great viewing for the answers you seek. Plus it has some great personal view on the our "conscious" as it pertains to steering the craft.
the video below is a tutorial for the past research and findings explained in a very "layman" way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ7qLSzWC2Y
Thia one is a personal account of inside the R an D of the mission to make the 'Craft' work. Has some very interesting points to say that the Cassy's have said about time and our perceptions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJD4h96D7Ds


Definitely worth a look.

 

[gambeir]

Yes, superconductors are used in CERN as electromagnets, but their role is basically to keep speeding particles to go in circles. Lorentz force indicates that. What is accelerating particles are actually condensators genereting electric field. It is not the same as it would be in case of the vehicle that You presented at these drawnings.

It's hard for me to tell how such vehicle would work, but as I said, simply by putting circle electromagnet into the cloud of ionized particles wouldn't make this electromagnet to levitate. All I can say is that it's not working that way.

This feedback helps me a lot in this area and the questioning helps me to refine my thinking. Let me try to better explain how this works.

Now then, you've gotten part of it. The Cern Superconducting Magnets are using Lorentz Force to accelerate a particle. Whereas this device is using the repulsion of the induced Eddy Currents in the conductive plasma to produce a repulsive force, so it's not accelerating the ions out the bottom like an ion lifter does.

The Patent Drawing by King makes this a little confusing because it seems to suggest that there is a need for several superconductive magnets to act as an accelerator. I called it a solenoid because of that myself, but now I see that it isn't anything other than a pure magnet.

In it's own enriched ion cloud, or plasma, the machine would just levitate using solely a magnet. The magnet contains the ionized cloud but because the cloud is conductive, this conduction induces a so-called eddy current at a right angle to the path of the electomagnetic current. They call this the Right Hand Rule. (*I think I got that right)

The Eddy Current is the propulsive force here. Not the acceleration of an ionized plasma cloud.
The capacitors shown as pie shaped sections on the bottom control and drive the craft by projecting the ionized plasma cloud.
This is akin to push away layers of ionized plasmas, each of which is acting in opposition to the magnetic field.

The ion emitter and the magnet alone act to produce a cloud of ionized plasma which surrounds the machine and upon which the magnetic field acts to induce eddy currents and these are in opposition to the magnetic field when the field is correctly oriented.

This simplified drawing may help to envision how this works. *Note that the flow of current from the electromagnet. We won't
worry about the complexities of pole arrangements. We just want to understand that the electromagnet induces a force in opposition
to it via so-called eddy currents whenever it encounter a conductor. In this case it's an ionized plasma cloud.

This exact same propulsion has been used on seawater, that's where the whole idea originated really.
PS: Remember here that I'm not qualified to be explaining electromagnetism or eletro anything. I just
understand the concept of how it works. So this drawing below isn't to be taken as anything too concrete.

Hopefully this is helpful

 

[gambeir]

Hi Guys, These are some great viewing for the answers you seek. Plus it has some great personal view on the our "conscious" as it pertains to steering the craft.
the video below is a tutorial for the past research and findings explained in a very "layman" way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ7qLSzWC2Y
Thia one is a personal account of inside the R an D of the mission to make the 'Craft' work. Has some very interesting points to say that the Cassy's have said about time and our perceptions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJD4h96D7Ds


Definitely worth a look.

Great, I will try to go there this evening to check it out. I was hoping for this because I can't be the only kook ya know. :)

Ok, just took a quick peek at the first video you linked to. What he's talking about is considerably more advanced. We are
looking at a version of the Mayflower here.

Not saying it' isn't valuable, because it is. I believe I listened to the first video some while ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ7qLSzWC2Y

Just stay with me on this floating tub the Mayflower. Possibly we can cross an ocean without everyone dying of scurvy or cannibalism from having been driven insane with complex and questionable explanations beyond the understanding of most people, and which isn't the case here. This is a primitive and relatively simple device. It is the first ocean we need to cross.

Trust me, if I can understand it, then anyone who want to can also. I've spent a long time examining this vehicle and deciphering how it works. I might not be the greatest teacher, but I'm trying. You guys and gals have to realize that this isn't magic. It isn't that complex.
I have no education beyond basic mathematics and no electronics or electrical education. If you draw, paint, do arts and crafts, if you build model airplanes, boats, or cars. If you are mechanic or a wood worker. If you have any love of working with tools then this isn't beyond your abilities. Difficult, costly, ect, then yes, but you can understand it and it's not like other speculative UFO's. This is understandable. Has to be people. It's at least 50 years old and maybe as much as 75 years old.

 

[gambeir]

There's probably better video's out there but this one isn't too bad.

The video shows levitation by way of using an alternating current powered coil which is placed on top of aluminium plate.
The ARV uses a cloud of ionized plasma instead of the aluminium plate. It is that simple. The repulsive force against the
conductor are eddy currents.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMRpRetf1dU

This video demonstrates how eddy currents effect a magnet when it's put through a copper pipe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keMpUaoA3Tg

 

[gambeir]

This video is some of my favorite video on UFO's. It was shot at Cork Ireland back in 2012 and shows plasma sphere's materializing out of thin air. These are not ARV's to my knowledge. They are likely to be terrestrial and I'm guessing 4th or 5th generation. They are using a plasma, as in fireball like, and this is what is levitating the machine and in the same exact way as the ARV would levitate. The plasma however has the ability to cloak the machine from radar. These are invisible to early radar. I'm no expert so maybe newer radar can catch them, but to my knowledge they are invisible to radar with a plasma cloak.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v26RBdnefzE


Plasma also has this advantage: Electrical Power Generation.
These are illustrations form Encyclopaedia Britannica of an MHD Generator Types. Magneto Hydrodynamic Generator.
Note the last image as it suggests that the ARV could use this generator system. All this stuff, it's pre-atomic age knowledge.

 

[gambeir]

Old man must take time out. However, the question remains: Have I explained/demonstrated how this machine works well enough that you have a basic grasp of the physics behind it now?

This is a little bit like a boat and a little bit like a putt putt motor which runs it.

 

[gambeir]

I don't think that should you happen to see a UFO you would see the "real thing".

You will probably see a holographic image of a flying object that you can comprehend as a futuristic machine in your own time's technology advancement.

Imagine a 1940s guy seeing a StarTrek model - completely incomprehensible, what the heck, he would probably get a heart attack - so his holographic image resembles something of what we see today as a vintage model.

This has nothing to do with the "real" thing and its technology behind the holograph - they don't operate in time, so there is no latest edition or the like...

Don't know if I am making sense ...

M.T.

Ahso..... Your talking about projecting preconceived ideas into the object based on the age you're living in. People who see things, are seeing things, and nothing other than that. In other words, they are in a delusional state.

The only other explanation is for the image to be a projected image, and that would have to come from outside of the person, not from within their own mind, and the only valid hypothesis to that is a living creature that can read minds, like cats and dogs can, but which has the added ability to project an image or implant the vision it wants back into your mind. (This might be technological possible in the near future). For all we know, animals too may be capable of doing this. Some reports of Big Foot involve a similar projected mental clouding and even freezing. This too has been associated with UFO's.

If what you suggest is true, then what of our photo's and video's? That's the rub with this line of thought. I can see a human having their mind clouded, and or induced to see what isn't there, or to invent what they are seeing, but photographs I cannot.

I do not think however that all UFO's are machines and that it is entirely possible, even likely in my opinion, that living creatures exist which appear to be UFO's, resemble them by our understanding and for reasons having to do with basic physics, and which can do just what you've suggested. I think there's convincing evidence for that.

 

[Janek]

Yes, superconductors are used in CERN as electromagnets, but their role is basically to keep speeding particles to go in circles. Lorentz force indicates that. What is accelerating particles are actually condensators genereting electric field. It is not the same as it would be in case of the vehicle that You presented at these drawnings.

It's hard for me to tell how such vehicle would work, but as I said, simply by putting circle electromagnet into the cloud of ionized particles wouldn't make this electromagnet to levitate. All I can say is that it's not working that way.

This feedback helps me a lot in this area and the questioning helps me to refine my thinking. Let me try to better explain how this works.

Now then, you've gotten part of it. The Cern Superconducting Magnets are using Lorentz Force to accelerate a particle. Whereas this device is using the repulsion of the induced Eddy Currents in the conductive plasma to produce a repulsive force, so it's not accelerating the ions out the bottom like an ion lifter does.

As I said, in CERN electromagnets are not used for accelerating particles, but to make them go in circles. In homogeneous magnetic field B at the charged particle that move with speed V would act force F that would be normal to both direction of magnetic field and direction of movement, as presented at the picture. This force is called Lorentz force. This force does not change the speed, it only change the direction. In practice this would cause the particle to move in circles, and that's how CERN actually works. But that's just a side note.

In it's own enriched ion cloud, or plasma, the machine would just levitate using solely a magnet. The magnet contains the ionized cloud but because the cloud is conductive, this conduction induces a so-called eddy current at a right angle to the path of the electomagnetic current. They call this the Right Hand Rule. (*I think I got that right)

The Eddy Current is the propulsive force here. Not the acceleration of an ionized plasma cloud.
The capacitors shown as pie shaped sections on the bottom control and drive the craft by projecting the ionized plasma cloud.
This is akin to push away layers of ionized plasmas, each of which is acting in opposition to the magnetic field.

The ion emitter and the magnet alone act to produce a cloud of ionized plasma which surrounds the machine and upon which the magnetic field acts to induce eddy currents and these are in opposition to the magnetic field when the field is correctly oriented.

This simplified drawing may help to envision how this works. *Note that the flow of current from the electromagnet. We won't
worry about the complexities of pole arrangements. We just want to understand that the electromagnet induces a force in opposition
to it via so-called eddy currents whenever it encounter a conductor. In this case it's an ionized plasma cloud.

This exact same propulsion has been used on seawater, that's where the whole idea originated really.
PS: Remember here that I'm not qualified to be explaining electromagnetism or eletro anything. I just
understand the concept of how it works. So this drawing below isn't to be taken as anything too concrete.

Hopefully this is helpful

There's probably better video's out there but this one isn't too bad.

The video shows levitation by way of using an alternating current powered coil which is placed on top of aluminium plate.
The ARV uses a cloud of ionized plasma instead of the aluminium plate. It is that simple. The repulsive force against the
conductor are eddy currents.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMRpRetf1dU

This video demonstrates how eddy currents effect a magnet when it's put through a copper pipe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keMpUaoA3Tg

This is very helpful actually, as I imagined before that that plasma cloud surrounds the machine, in which case there would be no resultant force that would cause the levitation of this object. However, if, and it's big IF, plasma cloud would be somehow kept under the vehicle I think it would be possible for it to levitate. Here I'm not sure if I'm right or not, but still I don't think it would be possible. In the videos that You presented there is a stationary system, electromagnet can levitate because there is solid metal plate that lays at the table. In case of the plasma it all would be very fluid. And whatever force would act on the vehicle, the same force would act on the plasma but with the opposed direction. In practice that would mean huge stream of charged particles going down, and I'm not sure if it would be possible to keep plasma cloud thick and dense enough to keep it working. And I'm not sure such system would be effective, however it would be necessarily to make some calculation, and that's beyond my possibilities.

 

[Oxajil]

Hi gambeir,

Who knows what kind of technology has been and is being developed behind the scenes, or what knowledge they gain from researching crashed saucers, and the ARV is interesting if true, but it is probably too difficult for most of us to completely understand how UFOs work (here I'm referring to 'alien crafts'). His drawing of this particular craft is interesting, and though I don't know the specifics of it (difficult for me to understand your explanations above!), who knows, it might work if built. But, I'm not sure it will work the same way a (3D/4D) 'alien craft' works. There have been many reports of UFOs that zigzag with incredible speed and then disappear. Regarding Mark McCandlish, I don't think the PTB is that much after him, I did a search on him and he is supporting claims about poisonous chemtrails in the sky.