Plasma-based magnetohydrodynamic propulsion apparatus - Distraction from real UFOs?

[gambeir]

Janek, I'm just not making this clear enough is all. This is why you're having problems seeing it. You have all the knowledge and tools already, that's obvious. I'm just not coming through is all. The fault is mine.

I've been writing a reply but ya know...very tired old man here....probably filled with errors so I am gonna take a power nap, then got some things to do later today, but will respond a little later tonight hopefully.

If anything, just recall that when you induce a current with a magnetic field in a conductor there is an opposing force induced in the conductor. The opposing force is caused by Eddy Currents which are the induced current in the conductor.

 

[gambeir]

Yes, superconductors are used in CERN as electromagnets, but their role is basically to keep speeding particles to go in circles. Lorentz force indicates that. What is accelerating particles are actually condensators genereting electric field. It is not the same as it would be in case of the vehicle that You presented at these drawnings.


As I said, in CERN electromagnets are not used for accelerating particles, but to make them go in circles. In homogeneous magnetic field B at the charged particle that move with speed V would act force F that would be normal to both direction of magnetic field and direction of movement, as presented at the picture. This force is called Lorentz force. This force does not change the speed, it only change the direction. In practice this would cause the particle to move in circles, and that's how CERN actually works. But that's just a side note.

What CERN is calling a condensator has to do with common linguistics, but it's a capacitor, just an archaic name for a capacitor. At least as far as I know, but of course I haven't checked up on them but certainly someone needs to.

*Current flows from negative to positive.
http://avstop.com/ac/apgeneral/magnetism.html

Flemings left hand rule determines force on a conductor in a magnetic field, while Flemings right hand rule determines the direction of the magnetic lines of force. Fleming Left Hand rule is mainly applicable for electric motors and Fleming Right Hand rule is mainly applicable for electric generators. http://www.electrical4u.com/fleming-left-hand-rule-and-fleming-right-hand-rule/

The principle used to determine the force experienced by a conductor carrying current in a uniform magnetic field is Flemings Left Hand Rule. http://cbseadda.blogspot.com/2012/08/edugain-hots-questions-with-answer.html

If the conductor is grasped in the left hand, with the thumb pointing in the direction of current flow, the fingers will be wrapped around the conductor in the same direction as the lines of the magnetic field. This is called the left-hand rule.

Flemings Left Hand Rule

Flemings Right Hand Rule.

When current flows through a conductor a magnetic field is induced around it. The direction of magnetic lines of force can be determined by Maxwell's corkscrew rule or right-hand grip rule. As per these rules, the direction of the magnetic lines of force (or flux lines) is clockwise if the current is flowing away from the viewer.


Factors influencing the force experienced by a conductor are: The amount of current. The Perpendicular distance between that point and the conductor. The strength of the Magnetic Field.


The magnitude of the magnetic field (B) at the of the coil is:
(i). directly proportional to the current (I) flowing it.
i.e. B α I ①
(ii). Inversely proportional to the radius (r) of the coil
i.e. B α 1/r ②
(iii). directly proportional to total number of turns (N) in the coil.
i.e. B α N ③
From ①, ② and ③, we get

B α I x N/r



The Right Hand Rule is used to determine the direction of magnetic force on a moving charge.
https://www.cliffsnotes.com/study-guides/physics/electricity-and-magnetism/electromagnetic-forces-and-fields

We know this works. The principles were demonstrated 49 years ago using seawater to power a large electromagneto hydrodynamic submarine called the EMS-1. The Japanese built the Yamato 1 which also uses the same system as a proof of concept.

These systems aren't terribly effective, but then again they aren't using superconducting magnets either, and of course seeding seawater to make it more conductive is something I've not run across, but it's probably been done, and done a long time ago.
http://www.ovaltech.ca/spctrvl/thryop3.html

Electromagneto hydrodynamic drive system.

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= gambeir]Have I explained/demonstrated how this machine works well enough that you have a basic grasp of the physics behind it now?[/quote]

I just feel like I am occasionally lost on some science fair on this forum. Many always seem to get this stuff, so you have gone to the right place OSIT. To me you have to be some kind of genius to grasp it..


[quote author= gambeir]One thing that strikes me is that if the 4STS are keeping a close eye, as you say, on the affairs of peon's like myself[/quote]

What they are most concerned with are those who reincarnated with certain 'mission profiles'' meant to raise the Frequency resonance vibration of the planet.


[quote author= gambeir]then that would suggest to me that the people who do have these vehicles are in contact and working with the 4STS.[/quote]

Either that, or dead. Or somehow made it out alive. No way to tell sure. But from what I understand is that there is an effort to collect all the brains of the planet. Although that's nothing new, many countries, corporations do so. It's not like the PTB are the only ones out there 'head hunting'


[quote author= gambeir]However, reflection may show that it might have been more involved and that perhaps it was the unrecognized abilities of those here that I unconsciously most valued, and I think now that has been validated to my satisfaction. I am happy with the choice.[/quote]

Evolution of technology is something they natural keep an eye on I think. But most importantly, Keeping in check the evolution of consciousness is their number 1 priority. (Becoming more conscious)

That's how we can truly make a difference. The UFO/Alien phenomenon is paranormal/ hyper-dimensional. Not extraterrestrial. So by becoming more aware, about ourselves and our reality. The more 4STS will find difficulty operating in our reality.



[quote author= gambeir]Rudolf Christian Karl Diesel was a German inventor and mechanical engineer, famous for the invention of the diesel engine. The story line we know is he fell off a steamer while crossing the english channel; Sept 29, 1913. Supposedly this was done by German Intelligence who wanted to keep it a secret for use in their submarines. Sounds plausible huh? Probably more like having to do with getting access to the patent rights or something as the looming war promised large profits.[/quote]

Of course there are also human elements who carry this form of competition. But every so now and then. It seems an alien hand was involved. OSIT.


And like Oxajil pointed out, true UFO's are 4D craft. So they not only travel intergalactic. But also through time, dimensions and densities.

So it seems you have some more work ahead of you :P ;)

 

[gambeir]

I just feel like I am occasionally lost on some science fair on this forum. Many always seem to get this stuff, so you have gone to the right place OSIT. To me you have to be some kind of genius to grasp it..

"Occasionally lost on a some science fair."
Hysterical Bjorn, but no, you're not the one who's lost, not at all. The internet isn't some kind of osmotic fiber: I get that, and as hysterically humorous as that is, it is also humiliatingly true and humbling to contemplate in that light, but it's also not entirely unintentional on my part.

For one thing you people are helping me. I can see now where I could not before, and I think that somewhere down inside I recognized that you people could teach me what I needed to learn. I said I was happy with my choice of where I chose to present this information. That hasn't changed.


When I thought about where I should present my thoughts on this I considered a couple of other places known for their objectivity and for their comprehension of all the properties involved in this contraption; the mathematics, physics, electrical and electronic knowledge, and other material sciences. These people however expect a golden platter, a diagramed presentation, and if they aren't handed it then they reject it and move on. Happily stamping on flowers as they blindly stumble towards the future.

Invention and creation doesn't come out of rigid formality. I can't expect some of those people to become enamored enough to actually begin to devote their own time to see if what I've presented here makes any sense to them. To cause them to begin to look at things differently and to think about what they are looking at.

I've said that this machine isn't that complex. It isn't, Ok? It just isn't. It's Alien in the sense of unknown and unfamiliar. When you first encounter something alien, like say a foreign language, you are just not going to read it once and then say; ah ha! Now I can speak French. This is the same thing.

I didn't just look at this image of the ARV by Mark McClandlish and then say; ah ha! I'm not sure I've ever had that moment. Myself and at least one or two other persons have been going over, and over, and over this thing for like a year or more. We were totally bamboozled as well. It's not like anyone should just expect to just get it.

I might not be an engineer, a nuclear specialist, or have any real knowledge of electronics, but these people did and they also just didn't get it either. One day, I did get it though. Like hey ding dong, looky here. Ya know, it's pretty strange stuff, and on top of that, this isn't something the infamous "they" want you to get. Don't expect too much help then, but you can expect the reverse as they try to bamboozle you with a cavalcade of why you're a blithering imbecile and how this could not possibly work.

That's easy to let them do because this machine is alien like. It's not something you're just going to get. You're just getting exposed to an idea of how it works. I don't think anyone should expect to just get it. There's a lesson there. People are looking to see some presentation and then expect to just get it. Well it doesn't work that way when you're deciphering some technology that isn't a proven and understood technology, let alone one that the ruling powers don't want you to get.

It's one thing to sign up for a course in aviation mechanics and get a bunch of theoretical information and schematics. You accept that this is how it works. It's quite another thing to look at something like the ARV and then try to deduce how it could work, and to do so almost alone since exposing yourself to any approved authority is going to result in an officially approved shill attack.

Now, what I tried to do was present the basic ideas which I think makes this thing work. Ultimately there are only so many ways it can work, and we know that it does work. We got the photo's and video's to prove that well enough now. So we know it works. Now how does it work?

If you attach technology to a timeline and say that this drawing is an accurate depiction; a cut-away drawing, of a flying saucer from circa 1940, then you can eliminate all technological developments after that timeline. In this case I said 1950 based on the photographic evidence. I further logically deduced from the explanations given by James King in his patent application that the McClandlish Drawing was a 2nd generation machine because King describes the directional controls for the Nazi Version with the half dome sphere's on the bottom. So even though the King patent comes later in 1967, the description of the control mechanism is clearly describing a first generation machine, possibly the whole patent as well.

The McClandlish Drawing of the ARV are derived from a first hand account. It is as accurate as we are going to get. Marks integrity is sound and well intentioned. He isn't a double agent. I say take it for a what it is: An accurate drawing by a renowned aviation and space illustrator whose knowledge and skills were freely given so that we would do something with them to help liberate humanity.

If McClandlish was to have been a forensic illustrator, then this would be a portrait drawing of a suspect. We are never going to get anything better until we actually get a manual from someone, and I would put money on the illustrations in that manual as being a dead ringer for this drawing.

Now we can sit around and hope for that manual to show up, or we just write the manual ourselves and sidestep the officially approved sources.

What they are most concerned with are those who reincarnated with certain 'mission profiles'' meant to raise the Frequency resonance vibration of the planet.

Yes, yes, and yes.

most importantly, Keeping in check the evolution of consciousness is their number 1 priority. (Becoming more conscious)

That's how we can truly make a difference. The UFO/Alien phenomenon is paranormal/ hyper-dimensional. Not extraterrestrial. So by becoming more aware, about ourselves and our reality. The more 4STS will find difficulty operating in our reality.

It's overwhelming the level of mind control exerted. Group Think is the number one priority. I have to agree with you in toto here on mind control. I think most people are still totally blind, and most are offended or too proud to admit they are being controlled.

And like Oxajil pointed out, true UFO's are 4D craft. So they not only travel intergalactic. But also through time, dimensions and densities.

So it seems you have some more work ahead of you :P ;)

Well possibly, more work that is, but this is a true UFO. Don't mistake that just because it's made in the USA it isn't a true UFO.
First there was the speed barrier. People thought that if you went faster than 50 mph you would die, that you wouldn't be able to breath, and of course there were again all the officially approved experts saying so. Then we had the super sonic speed barrier, how to break through the compressibility of air and to go faster than the speed of sound. Poor kids these days have no idea what they are missing with those sonic booms. Ah yes, the sound of liberty right? ~Lol.

This all reminds me of the church fighting to hold back knowledge and now we are at their front door once more. We are at the front door because this is a real UFO, or one on the door stoop of being a real one. You previously brought up the effects of these machines, and you're spot on there. Those effects are real. Even being near one can and have induced teleportations, warped time, and probably some vanishing as well.

 

[Janek]

Yes, superconductors are used in CERN as electromagnets, but their role is basically to keep speeding particles to go in circles. Lorentz force indicates that. What is accelerating particles are actually condensators genereting electric field. It is not the same as it would be in case of the vehicle that You presented at these drawnings.


As I said, in CERN electromagnets are not used for accelerating particles, but to make them go in circles. In homogeneous magnetic field B at the charged particle that move with speed V would act force F that would be normal to both direction of magnetic field and direction of movement, as presented at the picture. This force is called Lorentz force. This force does not change the speed, it only change the direction. In practice this would cause the particle to move in circles, and that's how CERN actually works. But that's just a side note.

What CERN is calling a condensator has to do with common linguistics, but it's a capacitor, just an archaic name for a capacitor. At least as far as I know, but of course I haven't checked up on them but certainly someone needs to.

That's my bad actually. Condensator is in Polish, I assumed it's the same in English. I meant capasitor of course, Thank You for correction.

We know this works. The principles were demonstrated 49 years ago using seawater to power a large electromagneto hydrodynamic submarine called the EMS-1. The Japanese built the Yamato 1 which also uses the same system as a proof of concept.

These systems aren't terribly effective, but then again they aren't using superconducting magnets either, and of course seeding seawater to make it more conductive is something I've not run across, but it's probably been done, and done a long time ago.
http://www.ovaltech.ca/spctrvl/thryop3.html

I have found some information about this vehicle Yamato1. As far as I have learnt I can tell You that:
http://www.skewsme.com/images/YamatoII_tech_b.jpg
1. It's principle of operation is completly different to this flying vehicle. Basically, as You can see in the picture above, it's operating very similar to the jet engine, except it has no moving parts. It takes water from one side, it flows into the tubes Because water contains charged particles (ions) it can be accelerated in electrical field, that is created by capacitors. But in order to water to flow in straight line there is also but a magnetic field via superconducting electromagnet (again it's role is to steer the flow, not to accelerate water). What actually makes this ship to swim is water recoil behind the ship, not any kind of electromagnetic interaction between water and superconducting electromagnet.
2. This propulsion is not very effective. Top speed of that ship is 8 knots and it needs big amount of energy to operate. The only advantage it has is lack of moving parts, and it makes it very silent.

Now, if You want to build some kind of flying vehicle with similar propulsion You would need to build some kind of thuster, in similar fasion as You have in jet engine. Actually, there are some sort of project for that kind of propulsion system (by NASA), but it would be for use in space.,Picture of it is below. You don't have anything like that at those pictures of this so called ARV that You presented, so it the flow of plasma cannot be controled in any way. As i claimed before, I see no way how such construction would fly. And if you put some sort of propulsion system similar to those of Yamato1, all You would get would be plane with jet engine which would be quiet, but not very energy-effective
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/94/VASIMR_system.jpg

Btw I agree with both Bjorn and Oxajil. Even if You build a vehicle with similar shape to UFO, it would never behave in a similar fasion, as UFOs seems to break rules of physics. Anything made by human hand, with the technology that we know of, could ever possibly do that.

 

[gambeir]

I have found some information about this vehicle Yamato1. As far as I have learnt I can tell You that:
http://www.skewsme.com/images/YamatoII_tech_b.jpg
1. It's principle of operation is completly different to this flying vehicle. Basically, as You can see in the picture above, it's operating very similar to the jet engine, except it has no moving parts. It takes water from one side, it flows into the tubes Because water contains charged particles (ions) it can be accelerated in electrical field, that is created by capacitors.

The point of this thread is to understand how this machine works using basic fundamentals in agreement with physics and electrical theory. It isn't my intent to educate beyond the scope of this thread, or outside of how I believe this device works.

An alternative explanation, supported with actual materials as I have done here, and in agreement with accepted science is perfectly acceptable. Crackpot allegations however will be dismissed as diversionary deceptions attempting to bamboozle the readers.

The ARV and the Yamato and the EMS-1 are all electromagneto hydrodynamic drives. Fundamentally their operations are exactly the same. Hence the drawing and information. The elementary principles are the same for all.
http://www.maritimesymposium-rotterdam.nl/uploads/Route/Magneto%20Hydrodynamics.pdf

 

[John G]

Electromagnetic propulsion using the Lorentz force is a known thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_propulsion

I do think the seawater gets used as a conductor for this type of propulsion. I had linear motors on the test equipment I was responsible for when I worked at IBM. I tend to suspect hyperdimensional UFOs would be using something a bit more advanced. I tend to think the plasma technology would be more ball lightning Cooper pair related and very well could have some kind of conscious control. It would be a moving wormhole of sorts.

 

[gambeir]

Electromagnetic propulsion using the Lorentz force is a known thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_propulsion

I do think the seawater gets used as a conductor for this type of propulsion. I had linear motors on the test equipment I was responsible for when I worked at IBM. I tend to suspect hyperdimensional UFOs would be using something a bit more advanced. I tend to think the plasma technology would be more ball lightning Cooper pair related and very well could have some kind of conscious control. It would be a moving wormhole of sorts.

This machine is 100% man made, but seawater and UFO's have a long association and you bring up an interesting possibility involving the use of seawater in this type of vehicle.

As I've said, this is a primitive machine comparatively speaking. Is it hyperdimensional? I don't know. I can't speculate on that right now. Theoretical ideas about more advanced vehicles much more closely resemble, or are exact replications of traditional forms of ufo's. Including round metallic balls and saucers.


In Genesis, we are given the word RUACH, but it does not mean the Spirit of God, but rather the wind of God. The wind of God is most often associated with the oceans. Elohim’s RUACH, hovers over water without moving it’s wings. RUACH is Sumerian, not Jewish, and is shown is various pictograms of Sumarian origin.

These vehicles are operating on a different principle. We now think we have some comprehension of how they work and I would think that because of that they would be capable of hyperdimensional travel. They are not the same as this vehicles plasma technology. Coopers pairing is something involving orbital spin states at the quantum level and is antigravitational. The AVR is an electromechanical machine and nothing more.

 

[Janek]

Electromagnetic propulsion using the Lorentz force is a known thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_propulsion

I do think the seawater gets used as a conductor for this type of propulsion. I had linear motors on the test equipment I was responsible for when I worked at IBM. I tend to suspect hyperdimensional UFOs would be using something a bit more advanced. I tend to think the plasma technology would be more ball lightning Cooper pair related and very well could have some kind of conscious control. It would be a moving wormhole of sorts.

This machine is 100% man made, but seawater and UFO's have a long association and you bring up an interesting possibility involving the use of seawater in this type of vehicle.

As I've said, this is a primitive machine comparatively speaking. Is it hyperdimensional? I don't know. I can't speculate on that right now. Theoretical ideas about more advanced vehicles much more closely resemble, or are exact replications of traditional forms of ufo's. Including round metallic balls and saucers.


In Genesis, we are given the word RUACH, but it does not mean the Spirit of God, but rather the wind of God. The wind of God is most often associated with the oceans. Elohim’s RUACH, hovers over water without moving it’s wings. RUACH is Sumerian, not Jewish, and is shown is various pictograms of Sumarian origin.

These vehicles are operating on a different principle. We now think we have some comprehension of how they work and I would think that because of that they would be capable of hyperdimensional travel. They are not the same as this vehicles plasma technology. Coopers pairing is something involving orbital spin states at the quantum level and is antigravitational. The AVR is an electromechanical machine and nothing more.

Cooper pairs appears in solid states when it is in superconducting state. It is actually crucial to explain superconductor properties. But that's just a little correction of my.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooper_pair

 

[gambeir]

Cooper pairs appears in solid states when it is in superconducting state. It is actually crucial to explain superconductor properties. But that's just a little correction of my.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooper_pair

I see, perhaps you could further enlighten all of us on superconducting states and how what I've described here cannot possibly work because, evidently, in your expert opinion I've made a critical error in saying that quantum state spins are associated with coopers pairing. Well maybe I have, and maybe I haven't, and it really doesn't matter because that's neither here nor there is it?

My problem is that you continually attempt to divert the comprehension of a new form of flying machine, and this comment, whereby you assume to correct me, thus implying I'm an imbecile, is yet another example of attempting to do that. You want me to have to defend myself on this topic in order to divert us off into the complexities of debating a topic few care about or even need to fully understand in order to understand the machine which is the theme of this thread.

You've attempted to do this repeatedly now. For example, stating how the diagram of a hydrodynamic drive is like a jet engine, but without moving parts, but of course you offer not logical rational thoughts behind this statement and so expect to divert me off to explaining how a jet engine works, rather than discussing how this device works. Infact you would rather have us discuss anything but this machine wouldn't you?

You've already stated that in your opinion this machine simply cannot work. So now we all know that you don't think this can work.
That's great Janek, you think what you want, but until you can refute the material I've presented, hence basic electrical theory, you're
just blowing smoke and it seems pretty obvious to me that the only thing you're interested in doing is impeding understanding, not assisting or learning or even teaching.

Edit=Quote

 

[gambeir]

All I've done here is propose a hypothesis about how this machine works. Like I said, I'm no expert, but then again who is? Were the Wright Brothers experts?

There is little doubt in my own mind that I do not entirely understand this machine. That would hardly surprise me, but there are parts to it which are clear and well understood. Patents describing how it works in certain areas. People need to forget this absolute nonsense about experts knowing everything, or being correct about everything as well. That's nothing but mind control.

Wright bros (flying machines)
After their Kitty Hawk success, The Wrights flew their machine in open fields next to a busy rail line in Dayton Ohio for almost an entire year. American authorities refused to come to the demos, and Scientific American Magazine published stories about "The Lying Brothers." Even the local Dayton newspapers never sent a reporter (but they did complain about all the letters they were receiving from local "crazies" who reported the many flights.) Finally the Wrights packed up and moved to Europe, where they caused an overnight sensation and sold aircraft contracts to France, Germany, Britain, etc.

 

[Janek]

Gambeir I'm sorry if I offended You, that was never my intention. Yes, You were right that quantum state spins are associated with coopers pairing, but it is not related to antygravity, but to superconductivity instead. All I wanted was to explain this. You corrected me once in this thread, consider it that way. It was not about to make fool of You.

Yes, I am skeptical about this machine ever working in the intended way. Maybe that's because I don't see them flying in every day life. Maybe it's me who is wrong. However, You kinda asked for skeptical opinions yourself:

Oh and of course I'm hoping for a wide bashing on this post, How it's wrong, why it can't work , how great this is... ;)
Please, do say what you think.

On the other hand, I can see, that I could have made my points more clear and write them in a different, more neutral manner. That is a lesson for me, that's for sure.

I think I won't participate in this discussion any more as I see I'm only generating negative emotions in You Gambeir.
Peace :)

 

[Mikey]

My problem is that you continually attempt to divert the comprehension of a new form of flying machine, and this comment, whereby you assume to correct me, thus implying I'm an imbecile, is yet another example of attempting to do that. You want me to have to defend myself on this topic in order to divert us off into the complexities of debating a topic few care about or even need to fully understand in order to understand the machine which is the theme of this thread.

gambeir, here you are complaining about something you asked for right at the beginning of the thread, where you wrote:

The main thing I'm trying to do is put the information out there for examination. ... Now if some of them {engineers} are hanging about here, then maybe they will decide to make a useful comment.

And:

I ask for their help. I want their help, and it's their duty to help; to explain and show how this works. No one should hold back. Please do correct, modify, add explanations and images. This is the way forward; to help others understand. I am assuredly not capable, or will shortly hereafter demonstrate my incompetence, hopefully sufficiently enough that these silent others cannot stand it any longer and be provoked into action.

And:

Again, I probably haven't explained this entirely correctly and I urge corrections.

Janek was not "implying that you are an imbecile". He simply did what you asked in the first place. Janek's additions and explanations were useful.

You've attempted to do this repeatedly now. For example, stating how the diagram of a hydrodynamic drive is like a jet engine, but without moving parts, but of course you offer not logical rational thoughts behind this statement and so expect to divert me off to explaining how a jet engine works, rather than discussing how this device works. Infact you would rather have us discuss anything but this machine wouldn't you?

Well, James King's patent is titled "magnetohydrodynamic propulsion apparatus". Therefore it was valid to discuss MHD drives and the Lorentz principle in this context, even though King's machine in addition proposes utilization of eddy currents.

You've already stated that in your opinion this machine simply cannot work. So now we all know that you don't think this can work.

This is an exaggeration. Janek seriously considered the possibility of the mechanism here, although with some reservations, which is valid.

That's great Janek, you think what you want, but until you can refute the material I've presented, hence basic electrical theory, you're just blowing smoke and it seems pretty obvious to me that the only thing you're interested in doing is impeding understanding, not assisting or learning or even teaching.

Now we've got a real emotional spill, haven't we? I think an apology to Janek is in order.


Coming back to the topic at hand:

King's original patent is reasonable. You already explained the patent's utilization of eddy current levitation. You also shared a video of a levitating electromagnet over an aluminium plate. It's a well understood phenomenon. Simply replace the aluminium with some kind of controlled plasma cloud under the craft, and you've got a working flying machine. However, the difficulties probably lie in energy generation, controlling the plasma, controlling the EM fields, efficiency, machine weight, cost, etc. We're not going to solve these details here, so I don't know what there is left to discuss. How would such a machine improve the state or fate of humanity?

However, I think it's problematic that the shape of his proposed machine has a loose resemblance with "flying saucers" because a lot of naive people in the UFO/Alien community obviously are falling for it. The shape of the machine was either a honest design decision, or a deliberate COINTELPRO attempt to help explain away the possible hyperdimensional nature of the UFO/Alien phenomenon. In the latter case, King, and everyone who brings this patent into connection with the UFO/Alien phenomenon, are doing a great misservice to honest research into the UFO/Alien field. In this sense, it would have been better to choose as the title of this thread "Plasma-based magnetohydrodynamic propulsion apparatus" in the "Outer Space and Inner Space Sciences" forum board.

 

[gambeir]

Gambeir I'm sorry if I offended You, that was never my intention. Yes, You were right that quantum state spins are associated with coopers pairing, but it is not related to antygravity, but to superconductivity instead. All I wanted was to explain this. You corrected me once in this thread, consider it that way. It was not about to make fool of You.

Yes, I am skeptical about this machine ever working in the intended way. Maybe that's because I don't see them flying in every day life. Maybe it's me who is wrong. However, You kinda asked for skeptical opinions yourself:

Oh and of course I'm hoping for a wide bashing on this post, How it's wrong, why it can't work , how great this is... ;)
Please, do say what you think.

On the other hand, I can see, that I could have made my points more clear and write them in a different, more neutral manner. That is a lesson for me, that's for sure.

I think I won't participate in this discussion any more as I see I'm only generating negative emotions in You Gambeir.
Peace :)

You don't need to pack up an leave. I just didn't think you were sincere is all and finally it got the better of me. I took a very aggressive stance, and you've now shown who you are and that you weren't being malicious. It's that simple.

Accept my apologies and move forward. I'm neither the first nor the last person who will take offense where none existed. Now that I can be assured of who you are I won't be offended. A person with only a handful of posting isn't someone I want to be abusive with, but sometimes the enemy sends their agents and they waste no time. I was unsure of who you were and there's one way to find out.

I figured that one of three things would happen. Either I would be banned to Timbuktu, or you would be, or we both would be.
Apparently Data is more sensible than myself.

This isn't the only way this machine can work BTW. It is how myself and a few others think it may work, but it could work at least one other way. What we want here is ideas, thoughts, and of course I'd like to know what the C's might think of this whole thing.

As Data points out, there's issues with the way I've proposed that this machine works. There may be some go rounds on those problems but we aren't too sure about those either. Hence the second way this machine works, and which I am not versed in very well at all. That way isn't inside of officially approved science.

This forum is a resource, it's one of a few resources which are unique, each offering unique people and unique information. I know that there are people here who hold things that they themselves aren't even aware they are holding, and that it's possible the wheels of time may click a notch and someone will say something which clicks to the next spur in time.

 

[gambeir]

Now we've got a real emotional spill, haven't we? I think an apology to Janek is in order.

I hear and obey and I did...


Like all forums, these threads and divided topics are firewalls. They were built upon an electronic format/structure which was intentionally laid out to divide knowledge into dis-associated bits. They might help us to make distinctions, but they do not help us to connect information. Where to put something is designed to be problematic if the intent is to link bits of information into a mosaic image. This is everywhere. I think it was done on purpose, and I mean to everyone who operates a forum, it's the software or whatever.

What I got out of what you said is that; thinking that this machine is a spacecraft might not even be it's purpose. Flying might not even be it's purpose, and I think what you suggested is that the whole thing is counter intel, but what then are they cloaking underneath a proxy UFO if the UFO made sense and was technically feasible? I am not well versed in what the C's have said Data which may relate to this. Time is probably critical.

I don't think Mark McClandlish intentionally did anything other than what he believed was the truth, but not becoming a tool isn't half so easy. So maybe the ARV is a decoy as you've suggested. To the best of my knowledge, form follows function with this machine.

As far as intentionally put out as disinformation, neither the drawing nor the patent was given consideration in that area. I did consider that whatever Mark had received as a description might have been fed, but his own knowledge would have to be used to create a workable design, and he understood how this machine would work on the basis of fundamental physics or else he wouldn't have drawn it as he has.

So this all becomes more complex: Two immediate paths are shown to me. The solution to power problems could have been provided by beaming microwave energy. This would be a stop-gap measure, but an enabling tool. Enough to begin a Counter Intel program. Enough to operate that program to our present time.

The other alternative is that however this may have been solved, it's the effects of the machine itself which became the reason for continuing a counterintelligence program.

When you think about it in this light, what then emerges is that if the effects of the machine were stumbled upon, as it appears, then the reality is that you don't need to fly in order to replicate the effects, whatever those may be in reality: Something there to think about.