dr Leszek Sykulski: "We are the US bumper"
How do you evaluate freedom of speech in today's Poland?
- I believe that there is a big problem with that. Of course, it is not that we have preventive censorship, or some office dedicated to this, but the fact is that cancel culture, i.e. the culture of exclusion, is developing very strongly in Poland. It consists in eliminating from public life unwise persons who go against the governmental narrative or the narrative of the system. Such people are eliminated from jobs in state-owned companies and state universities and silenced from the mainstream media. Generally, such people are made difficult to live and function in public. They obviously use Art. 54 of the Constitution [freedom of speech - ed.], But we know perfectly well that they are equal and more equal. This whole cancel culture that came to us from Anglo-Saxon civilization is such a soft totalitarianism. This means that, as in any totalitarianism, unreasonable people are eliminated, but here it is done in velvet gloves. The point is that it should be done as gently as possible, i.e. not by any prisons, repression, concentration camps or physical elimination.
So there is undoubtedly a problem with freedom of speech in our country, and I think it became very visible on February 24, 2022. One narrative dominates, pro-government and pro-war. And freedom of speech is limited to anyone who tries to say otherwise, that the reality is not necessarily black and white, that there are many different shades, that it is necessary to look at the entire geopolitical situation more broadly, and not only through the prism of February 24 itself, that the issue helping refugees from Ukraine is one thing, and an organized resettlement action is another thing. There are a lot of discussion topics that are considered unacceptable by the system and such people have really limited freedom of speech.
We have a very strange situation. On the one hand, some people have limited freedom of speech, and on the other hand, some circles have unlimited freedom to slander others with impunity, especially those who speak differently about the situation in Ukraine. We all know epithets like: "Russian agents", "Kremlin propagandists", etc. The authors and distributors of these slanders do not bear any consequences for their words. How it's possible?
- I think that first of all you need to pay attention to the flood of new experts on duty on defense, security, etc. These are really very strange people who had nothing to do with either geopolitics, or international affairs, or political journalism, or defense . Meanwhile, they became experts on duty in geopolitics, security, and defense, despite the fact that they did not spend a single day in the army, and saw the army at the Piłsudski Square in Warsaw at most. And such people set the tone.
This is, of course, an organized action, I have no doubts about that, because the services especially in Poland are now subordinate to the American services. In this context, it is worth recommending the very good book "End of MSW empire", published by the Institute of National Remembrance. The publication shows how the first management of the Ministry of the Interior, i.e. the intelligence in the People's Republic of Poland, was subordinated by the CIA. John Pomfret also writes about it very well in his latest book, "Greetings from Warsaw". Thus, there is quite a lot of evidence that the Polish secret services are subordinate to American or Anglo-Saxon services. Such a crowning proof of this is, for example, an investigation by the European Parliament or a series of international investigations into secret CIA prisons. We know perfectly well that the officers of the Foreign Intelligence Agency broke the constitution, broke the penal code and should stand trial and be sentenced to heavy prison for what they did. Of course, not only the AW officers, but also counterintelligence officers, the Internal Security Agency and politicians such as Leszek Miller or President Aleksander Kwasniewski. They broke Polish law and international law because people were tortured on Polish territory, illegal secret prisons of a foreign country were created, etc.
So we have a situation in which the Polish secret services are subordinated to the American services. I am not saying that all officers are involved, but the relationship is very strong. And today in the United States we have a trend to defend liberal hegemony, to treat Poland, Ukraine and other countries in the region as geostrategic buffers. Dr. George Friedman wrote and talked about it, for example in his famous interview with the Chicago Council on Global Affairs in 2016. Managing by conflict, by quarreling Eurasian states, creating the Intermarium, etc. This whole concept of the Three Seas Initiative is nothing more than a sanitary cordon as understood by George Friedman. So it is absolutely not surprising that the secret services in Poland, which are largely subordinated to the interests of the liberal hegemon, strive to create one narrative. The pro-war narrative, which shows Russia as an inefficient country that will lose at any moment, because there are practically no more rockets, Russian soldiers don't even have socks, not to mention their shoes. Therefore, there is really such a consent to warfare among the Polish society, so people who are totally random are exposed, who have no idea about geopolitics, security or defense.
How to protect yourself against it?
- Develop alternative groups, alternative information centers, also centers related to education, because it is very important. But let's not do it in a centralized way, because we can see what the American approach is today to absolute control of everything and everyone. It's best to create alternative environments on a network basis. Let us create environments that will independently gather information, increase self-awareness, and will not take advantage of the inventory of all this narrative that comes from the system.
In one of your lectures, you said that the process of post-humanization of international relations is a much greater threat than the ideology of gender or liberal democracy. Please explain to our readers what you meant.
- I meant the ideology of transhumanism, which is developed mainly in the United States, but also in other countries, including Europe. In Russia, there are transhumanist societies, various associations and foundations that deal with this, and companies that conduct research on it. This ideology is about crossing the natural boundaries of man in order to use technologies implanted in the brain as well as various types of bionic technologies to expand the mental and physical abilities of a human being. But in general, the ideologists of tranhumanism talk about the posthuman era to transfer human consciousness to artificial intelligence, to combine human consciousness with artificial intelligence. Elon Musk himself creates such concepts and projects in this area. And this is really very dangerous, because the question is how far can we interfere with the human genome. The subject of eugenics, human programming, interference with the very nature of man and the creation of a kind of cyborgs returns here. There is no doubt in my mind that such ideas go absolutely against the principles of Latin civilization.
What are the chances that Germany will implement its plan to create a federal European state? And what does it mean for Poland if our western neighbors get their way?
- I believe and have been repeating this for years that Germany is a much greater threat to Poland than Russia. Because whenever Russia threatened us, it was a kind of consolidation of Latin civilization, a consolidation of national forces and the nation's desire for survival. On the other hand, the German threat is a spiritual threat, a threat of liquidation of cultural sovereignty. What Germany is proposing today is followed not only by the Energiewende, i.e. the energy transformation, not only the concept of Mitteleuropa, the concept of federal Europe, but also, and perhaps most of all, the entire postmodernism, cultural neo-Marxism and the destruction of the foundations of Latin civilization.
This trend towards deep federalization and the creation of a single state is very visible not only in Germany, but also in France and Italy, which signed the Florist Treaty in 2021. Since the creation of the SPD-FDP-Greens coalition in autumn 2021, Germany has officially been pushing through all kinds of federation concepts in Europe. And this is a much greater threat than the potential military threat posed by Russia. Why? Since it is possible to avoid the Polish-Russian war and I think it is not too late for that, despite the fact that it is autumn 2022 and Polish foreign policy, the security policy subordinated to Washington has gone very far. I mean, for example, interference in internal Belarusian affairs, also in certain matters of internal Russian affairs. It has come a long way, but it can be stopped or turned back if there was a radical political change in Poland. It does not look like it yet, but there is a concept of black swans in social sciences, which Nassim Taleb wrote about in his great book.
Is the alliance with the United States a guarantee of security for us?
- Is not. After recent years, it is evident that the alliance with the United States creates a strategic buffer for Poland. I have no doubts about that. What is the value of this alliance and how they really treat Poland, was seen on August 15, 2020, when an agreement was concluded between the United States and Poland on the so-called enhanced defense cooperation. This agreement excludes from the jurisdiction of Polish courts, from the jurisdiction of the Polish state those areas occupied by the US armed forces on Polish territory. Actually, we cannot terminate this contract just like that, because the notice period is two years. What, however, is not in this contract? The United States has in no way committed to any additional defense support for Poland on the basis of specific clauses and to respond to specific threats. This agreement is comparable to the agreement between the US and Iraq. Just to remind you that in 2003 Iraq was bombed, invaded and occupied by the United States. The situation between Iraq and Poland is, at least theoretically, completely different, but we can see that the level of vassalisation is quite similar.
Is it even possible to displace American influence from our continent?
- In theory, anything is possible. However, one must realistically look at American influence and how much German policy is subordinated to the United States. I think that Angela Merkel's geopolitical testament has made it clear that maintaining good transatlantic relations today is in Berlin's interest, and there is no power inside Germany to break this deep dependency. Although, of course, it is not that in Germany today everyone is satisfied with the vassalization or the treatment of Germany as a junior partner by the United States. There would have to be a profound geopolitical reevaluation in Europe, or geostrategic, also taking into account the military factor. So I believe that it is theoretically possible, but it would require a greater armed conflict. And not necessarily in Europe, which is worth adding. I think that such a conflict in the Indo-Pacific or in the Middle East could absolutely reevaluate the balance of power in Europe. Not everything depends on us, the Poles, and the Europeans. However, everything could turn around if there really was a major war in the Middle East. Israel's hypothetical strike on Iran - hypothetical, but quite probable, given the declaration of Israeli politicians such as Naftali Bennett, Jair Lapid or General Aviv Kohavi; the blockade of the Strait of Hormuz, paralyzing communication through the Strait of Oman, through the Red Sea, through the Suez Canal, would have such a huge impact on the world economy that various alliances and geopolitical systems would also be reoriented. A possible US-Chinese conflict in the South China Sea, the East China Sea, the Taiwan Strait. Of course, all of this can change this situation.
In Poland, in order to get rid of this American dependence, it would be necessary, first of all, to liquidate the current secret services. I have no doubts about that. Option zero from the secret services, the Foreign Intelligence Agency, the Internal Security Agency, etc. Practically the military services were moved out of the armed forces, because in peacetime they are not in the armed forces. So the question is, what are military services for? It would be appropriate to create a new national intelligence agency, a new counterintelligence service. The names are irrelevant at the moment, this is a secondary issue. And, of course, to judge those guilty of such subordination to a foreign power. Judging those people responsible for the CIA's secret prisons, trying those people who helped push Poland into the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. It was absolutely unnecessary. Of course, for this to happen, a very profound geopolitical transformation is needed, but it cannot be ruled out.
And who would train these new ministries?
- At the Polish Geostrategic Society, we presented the project Strategy 4.0 for the Republic of Poland. We show there a certain concept that could take place under peaceful conditions. I am not talking now about the conditions of war or some kind of revolution in Poland, but a normal situation when there is a radical political change in Poland and this horizon of the decade is given to us and we can actually do it based on bottom-up structures. I have been observing the WSI verification and I know how it can be done. Absolutely not in two weeks, not in two months, not even in two years. In ten years, it is possible to create serious secret services that count in Europe. However, this requires a huge political mobilization, grassroots and, above all, a radical political change, removing the round-table system from power in Poland.
As a result of the events in Ukraine, the national structure is changing in Central and Eastern Europe, especially in Poland. Is this a deliberate procedure? If so, who is behind it and what is the purpose?
- This change in the ethnic structure is progressing and it is visible to the naked eye. We know very well how a small group of Ukrainian citizens have been granted refugee status. We know that the majority of these citizens do not have the refugee status and that a large number of people from Ukraine came to Poland from areas where no direct hostilities are taking place. Therefore, it makes us ask questions: are we not dealing with an organized resettlement action? If so, in whose interest? If we look at the loudest voices today for the creation of Ukropol - i.e. the Polish-Ukrainian union - we can see that they are pro-American, pro-Atlantic circles. The environments known as the Atlanteans in a broad sense. This, of course, goes hand in hand with the whole concept of the so-called The Three Seas Initiative, i.e. creating a sanitary cordon between Germany and Russia. And there is no doubt for me that it is in the interest of the broadly understood Anglo-Saxon forces to transform Poland into a multinational, multi-confessional state, a state where the national identity will be watered down, where it will be some form of federation, where this political factor of Poland will be greatly weakened.
Some hope is given by the fact that many Poles have not fallen for the narrative coming from the mainstream media. You meet these people by traveling all over the country giving lectures. Who are the organizers and participants of the meetings with you?
- They are very people of different professions: entrepreneurs, lawyers, doctors, academics, students, high school students, teachers, blue collar workers, etc. It is also worth paying attention to the people who listen to my podcast on the Internet. This is a huge social cross-section, including the Polish community, Poles in the East, as well as various organizations in Poland that cannot speak, e.g. state officials. I know that my podcasts are listened to at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Ministry of National Defense, Ministry of the Interior, the Chancellery of the President or the Chancellery of the Prime Minister, etc. Because people know perfectly well that what the media says has nothing to do with reality; it has nothing to do with what is happening in the lobby at Aleja Szucha, Aleje Ujazdowskie or Krakowskie Przedmieście. I also worked in the Chancellery of the President and I know what the media coverage looked like and what it looked like backstage. So I realize that this hunger for truth, or simply for a different view and discussion, is very big. You can disagree with me, but I think that the intellectual exchange itself, the exchange of views is very important and people appreciate it very much.
In your geopolitical podcast on YouTube, almost every day you raise topics related to conflicts or wars that take place in various parts of the world. Where in the world is the most important fight taking place right now? Does this fight concern us, Poles, and to what extent?
- The fight is multidimensional. The most important struggle is for the future of the human species itself and takes place in the minds of all of us, that is the broadly understood noussfera, from the Greek nous or reason. So this information sphere, the psychological sphere, is absolutely the most important. Because this is both transhumanism, and posthumanism, and a very deep interference in the human genome, and how the human species should look like in 50 years.
There is a struggle for the future of civilization, what civilization should look like in Europe. We are talking a lot about Western civilization, the collective West. But what is it really? Certainly, this is not a synonym for Feliks Koneczny's Latin civilization. We would insult the late late man here. professor, saying that today the United States or Great Britain is a Latin civilization. Absolutely not. Just like Germany, which in some respects is also far from the Byzantine civilization.
And, of course, there is a struggle for power in the world that is not so simple that it is between one country or the other, but it is asymmetrical between multinationals, between informal interest groups, between large investment funds. Let's look at the role of investment funds today such as BlackRock, Vanguard, State Street, which have power much more than most countries in the world. Let's look at corporations such as Meta, Amazon, Mikrosoft or Google, which have great power, and social media based in the United States have absolutely impunity in Poland.
And finally, the struggle between traditional powers for a practically new vision of the world. On the one hand, it is about stopping the liberal hegemony, on the other hand, about the polycentric world. Countries such as China, India, Russia, Turkey, South Africa, Brazil, Argentina and Iran are interested in a polycentric world, where a new division of spheres of influence will be forged. The United States, of course, is in favor of retaining its liberal hegemony, to dominate the world and impose its own civilization matrix on it. I think that a certain vision of Latin civilization should be a signpost of understanding what cultural sovereignty is, what the struggle is focused on today. After all, it is not only about tanks, planes, but most of all about human consciousness, because it is the most important battlefield nowadays. In understanding this, we must be aware that a certain identity is the foundation of cultural sovereignty. First of all, a civilization identity, which consists of specific values, but also a national identity.
In our case, when it comes to the Latin civilization, there is no better theoretical approach than was done by Feliks Koneczny. This factor of civilization is here the "pentomial of being", which combines values such as: good, truth, health, prosperity and beauty. Therefore, first of all, one must cultivate a civilizational identity, national identity. To educate oneself, educate and educate one more time, using the maximum number of sources, not pro-system or system-oriented ones, but the bottom-up and independent ones. And, of course, to organize bottom-up, to be aware that in our closest environment there are conscious and valuable people who, if the time comes for a breakthrough, will be able to take the gauntlet. We realize that not everything depends on us. If we were to compare A.D. 2022 to the First World War, we can argue here whether we are in 1914 or in 1916. The fact is that we are in a period of a very big turning point and, like the Poles of that time, or even the national movement of that time, we should create a grassroots initiative of organic work, work at the grassroots level, so that in a situation when this historic breakthrough moment really comes, when it will be possible to achieve full independence, full sovereignty, so that we would have staff then.
Valuable advice, but I have a feeling that too many people simply don't want to and won't even take an interest in it. At most a handful will take it seriously. Can this handful make a difference?
- I am convinced that history does not change the masses. A minority changes history, but a determined and organized minority. And this is the answer to your question. It's not that we have a whole lot of people today who suddenly become interested in geopolitics, defense, etc. No. The counterrelites of the future are needed. And today it is precisely today that we need to create counterrelites to the future, build an organized and determined minority on the basis of a network.
Thank you for the conversation.
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