Self-Observation, Inner Talking & Work Instrument

[Buddy]

Hi Andrew;

This is my first attempt to share my experience with self-observation, so here goes:

You said:

When I began making definite attempts to be Self-Observant I noticed that it was extremely difficult to hold my attention without being drawn to some external object, influence, or circumstance that was manifesting around me.

This is my experience exactly, most of the time. It is extremely easy to fall back into identification because we have been doing that all our lives.

You seem to have expectation and disappointment associated with the clarity of your thoughts and emotions, or your ability to see them simultaneously. May I suggest that you simply observe this fact? Just observe yourself thinking about it. Back up as far as you can and just observe whatever it is you are doing, not doing, thinking, feeling, etc.
You think you're not doing it right? That's fine. Just observe yourself thinking and wondering about this.

When I first started learning about self-observation, I found it curious that discussions of it were long on abstracts and generalities and short on specifics. I think I figured out that the reason is because of the nature of the Real I, or Observer, as described in 3rd density terms.

For me, it seems to help to declare an intention to self-observe...sort of like holding onto an overall purpose or intent in the back of my mind. I have to continually remember my intention and simply observe.
I feel like there's a small part of me that simply 'looks out' and 'knows' what it knows.
Of course, what it 'knows' is so little, the 'observer' is also tiny.
I don't try to visualize the 'self-observer' in order to determine if I'm doing it right, because I feel that I'm just creating another 'little I'. In other words, I think the one who is doing the 'looking' is supposed to be the 'Self-Observer'.
Another way of saying this, is that the only way to determine if I'm actually self-observing is to judge by results only. (And examples of results are plentiful on the forum).
The reason I think this, is because it seems that my early efforts consisted of trying to 'see in my mind, if I was doing it right' and that's not possible. I think it's not possible because "there is nothing to see". It feels to me as if the 'self-observer' is such a fundamental thing, that there is no way to see yourself observing yourself to see if you're doing it right.
Does that sound crazy? I think so, but anyway...
It seems to help when I feel that I have an umbrella purpose over my entire day (to self-observe) and to continually remember this purpose, and just observe whatever there is to see: my activities, my thoughts, my reactions, my random thoughts and movements, my perceptions of myself as they come and go, etc.

I forget myself often, but I feel that by strongly declaring my purpose of self-observing, it makes it a little easier to remember more often.

...or maybe I'm just a lunatic! My self-observation suggests that I should wonder about this sometimes!

 

[Andrew]

Hey buddy thx for your response. I'll be honest I'm not really sure how to reply without talking about myself but I will take into practice your suggestions. From the lack of responses I'm assuming I'm missing something so it's back to the drawing board.

 

[anart]

  From the lack of responses I'm assuming I'm missing something so it's back to the drawing board.   

And what if the lack of response is due to factors outside of anyone's 'control' - what if it is merely a factor of less than 24 hours passing and others being neck deep in other obligations and important activities, and - not wanting to create a cursory response - they actually want to take some time to consider the matter?

In other words, your reply above is Internal Consideration -- -- you are reacting to your needs alone without considering the other possible reasons for a lack of response that may have absolutely nothing in the world to do with you.

With that said,

What I would like to know from group consensus is, does this sound anything at all like the effects of Properly applied self-observation or does it sound like something is missing?

It sounds, to me, like an exercise in physical sensation - which is not a useless endeavor at all - it can be quite useful, actually.

  Aside from the Thinking and Emotional observations which have been extremely difficult to attain.

And, this, Andrew, is the crux of the matter.  It is within the 'thinking' and 'emotional' observations that the keys reside to knowledge of the self.  So - perhaps the next experiment should consist of focusing on the 'inner talking' - as suggested by the thread title  -- no time like the present to begin to explore what is really going on with your 'thinking' and 'emotions'...    ;)

 

[Buddy]

Andrew;

It may be a better idea not to assume anything as a result of not getting a reply within a desired time frame.
(I really, really know how that feels, though)
People stay busy working for others, working on themselves, trying to help others, catching up on reading, trying to catch the tea before it boils and perhaps a thousand other things. In addition, it takes time to connect with a thinking process, compare it with knowledge, consider a context, review a posting history (if necessary), and whatever else it may take to give a thoughtful, helpful, externally considerate reply.

I recommend just removing expectation from the practice of self-observation for now and continue what you're already doing.
I may be overstepping a freewill boundary here, I'm just trying to say that I don't think it's necessary to "scrap" anything...everything can be learned from.
Everything is just lessons.



EDIT- I posted this before reading anart's post. I think I like that one better. ;)

 

[Andrew]

[quote author=anart]
[quote author=Andrew]
From the lack of responses I'm assuming I'm missing something so it's back to the drawing board.
[/quote]

And what if the lack of response is due to factors outside of anyone's 'control' - what if it is merely a factor of less than 24 hours passing and others being neck deep in other obligations and important activities, and - not wanting to create a cursory response - they actually want to take some time to consider the matter?

In other words, your reply above is Internal Consideration -- -- you are reacting to your needs alone without considering the other possible reasons for a lack of response that may have absolutely nothing in the world to do with you.
[/quote]

Yes your right, your right I know . Right after I submitted that I realized what I was doing but I wasn't going to go back and change it. These things need to be pointed out so they can be "seen" so I appreciate it. Worry just started to build up, it got identified with then expressed - the result of an out of control "I". I apologize.

With that said,

What I would like to know from group consensus is, does this sound anything at all like the effects of Properly applied self-observation or does it sound like something is missing?

It sounds, to me, like an exercise in physical sensation - which is not a useless endeavor at all - it can be quite useful, actually.

As in becoming more "in-tune" with ones body and sensations as was experienced? Things seemed to "slow" down for once, and conscious choice seemed to be within reach, but not quite there - perhaps if thoughts and emotions were able to be observed I might have gotten a "flash" of an actual conscious experience? or a potential one. This is pure speculation however, I really don't know.

Aside from the Thinking and Emotional observations which have been extremely difficult to attain.

And, this, Andrew, is the crux of the matter. It is within the 'thinking' and 'emotional' observations that the keys reside to knowledge of the self. So - perhaps the next experiment should consist of focusing on the 'inner talking' - as suggested by the thread title -- no time like the present to begin to explore what is really going on with your 'thinking' and 'emotions'... ;)

Yes I agree. What about in a situation where there is an under-developed emotional center, so observations might be even more difficult? I know it was referenced that Gurdjieff was trying to awaken Ouspenskys emotional center, and I'm wondering what that might consist of - 'awakening ones emotional center'? Also what might the reasons be for an under-developed emotional center? Obviously, lack of it's use for one thing but does this manifest from past psychological experiences that caused that particular center to cease expression? Kinda stumped on that one, but if that's so then the solution would be becoming Psychologically healthy, correct?

 

[Andrew]

[quote author=Buddy]
Andrew;
It may be a better idea not to assume anything as a result of not getting a reply within a desired time frame.
(I really, really know how that feels, though)
People stay busy working for others, working on themselves, trying to help others, catching up on reading, trying to catch the tea before it boils and perhaps a thousand other things. In addition, it takes time to connect with a thinking process, compare it with knowledge, consider a context, review a posting history (if necessary), and whatever else it may take to give a thoughtful, helpful, externally considerate reply.
[/quote]

Indeed - mistake on my part. Complete lack of consideration there :O *Reality Check* ;)

I recommend just removing expectation from the practice of self-observation for now and continue what you're already doing.

Now I think I'm seeing what you meant in reference to having expectations. And if so then yes there seems to have been expectations in getting results from emotional and thought observations instead of just observing the fact that such expectations were placed, which may have hindered any progress that could have been made. Good eye ;)

everything can be learned from. Everything is just lessons.

Words of wisdom. This has been overlooked and I thank you for bringing it to light.

 

[Nicholas]

This has been a very good thread to remind me of what I have already read in books by Ouspensky and Mouravieff. My next book will be from Gurdjieff.

I had started self observation about a year ago but haven't kept up with it. After reading the Castaneda books, Don Juan mentions stopping the inner dialoge. I have tried to practice this without much success. I would try to meditate and stop my inner voice but I wasn't making any progress. Reading this thread brought me hope. Practicing self observation may be much more useful than simply stopping the inner dialoge. All those little I's of our mechanical self remind me of what Don Juan has mentioned about the predator;

"They are infinitely more efficient and organized than that. In order to keep us obedient and meek and weak, the predators engaged themselves in a stupendous maneuver - stupendous, of course, from the point of view of a fighting strategist. A horrendous maneuver from the point of view of those who suffer it. They gave us their mind! Do you hear me! The predators give us their mind, which becomes our mind. The predators mind is baroque, contradictory, morose, filled with fear of being discovered any minute now."

I will renew my efforts keeping this thread in mind for inspiration.

 

[Renaissance]

As in becoming more "in-tune" with ones body and sensations as was experienced? Things seemed to "slow" down for once, and conscious choice seemed to be within reach, but not quite there - perhaps if thoughts and emotions were able to be observed I might have gotten a "flash" of an actual conscious experience? or a potential one. This is pure speculation however, I really don't know.

Shooting for an 'actual conscious experience' is a pretty high expectation. Attempting to observe mechanical experience might be more useful.

Yes I agree. What about in a situation where there is an under-developed emotional center, so observations might be even more difficult? I know it was referenced that Gurdjieff was trying to awaken Ouspenskys emotional center, and I'm wondering what that might consist of - 'awakening ones emotional center'? Also what might the reasons be for an under-developed emotional center? Obviously, lack of it's use for one thing but does this manifest from past psychological experiences that caused that particular center to cease expression? Kinda stumped on that one, but if that's so then the solution would be becoming Psychologically healthy, correct?

Reading the 'top five' books answers much of these questions (I think I put them in the right order):
Myth of Sanity, Trapped in the Mirror, Unholy Hungers, The Drama of the Gifted Child, The Narcissistic Family

 

[Andrew]

As in becoming more "in-tune" with ones body and sensations as was experienced? Things seemed to "slow" down for once, and conscious choice seemed to be within reach, but not quite there - perhaps if thoughts and emotions were able to be observed I might have gotten a "flash" of an actual conscious experience? or a potential one. This is pure speculation however, I really don't know.

Shooting for an 'actual conscious experience' is a pretty high expectation. Attempting to observe mechanical experience might be more useful.

Hey Los I wouldn't say I was "shooting" for a conscious experience, as in that being my intention and aim. It was more of a glimpse of a potential state that could be reached if I had the necessary requirements down and mastered. I just saw the reality of the possibility. Although reality itself seemed to take on a lighter shade when becoming aware of my physical sensations. It was a very interesting experience, I've yet to have it again.

Reading the 'top five' books answers much of these questions (I think I put them in the right order):
Myth of Sanity, Trapped in the Mirror, Unholy Hungers, The Drama of the Gifted Child, The Narcissistic Family

I've actually read all of those books and was pretty sure this was the case. That's actually where I was headed when I said 'does this manifest from past psychological experiences that caused that particular center to cease expression?'. I'm curious however if there might be other possibilities? If not then I'm going to go back and re-read those books.


Thx for your input Los :D

 

[Aiming]

What about in a situation where there is an under-developed emotional center, so observations might be even more difficult? I know it was referenced that Gurdjieff was trying to awaken Ouspenskys emotional center, and I'm wondering what that might consist of - 'awakening ones emotional center'? Also what might the reasons be for an under-developed emotional center? Obviously, lack of it's use for one thing but does this manifest from past psychological experiences that caused that particular center to cease expression?

I've actually read all of those books and was pretty sure this was the case. That's actually where I was headed when I said 'does this manifest from past psychological experiences that caused that particular center to cease expression?'. I'm curious however if there might be other possibilities? If not then I'm going to go back and re-read those books.

Hi Andrew,
I've been thinking about this topic lately, too. In my self-observations I've noticed how very shut down my emotional center is,
how very hard it is for me to really feel, and I've somehow developed a kind of longing for my emotional center to open up,
as I'm feeling that something very essential is missing!
While from recapitulation it seems to be clearly stemming from past psychological imprinting/experience, it's pretty unclear to me
how to 'open up my heart', if I may put it this way.
Some thoughts:
The ways towards developing the emotional center could be:

1) Healing your psychological wounds through reading and applying the psycho book section, as in autopsychoanalysis.
This would neccessitate, as far as I can see, understanding what exactly happenend and how it affected your machine,
plus feeling all the pain you had once again - but consciously. As in: all the dirt needs to be washed out, needs to be removed.
Which leads me to a question to the community:
Is it okay to ask questions concerning the first step of the Work which is about
psychological healing? I personally have difficulty in putting some things into practice, like for example healing one's past
wounds by oneself. Is it a direct healing (as in feeling it all again) or do the psychological malfunctions vanish away on their own
by self-observation and understanding the mechanisms, and the effect of the detached observer, that is non-identification?
I think the main problem for me is to unite both healing and Work principles (eg if I concentrate on healing sth from my past
I get indulged in it pretty fast, I again become the child and victim. Is it necessary to feel the child's pain again full-blown,
or is it more appropriate to remain in the observer role from the beginning?).


2) Keep up self-observation and getting to know your machine and its modi operandi.
3) Praying to the Universe and/or Future STO Self to assist in opening the emotional center. :D
4) other possibilities? like Andrew asked

I've always been very indulgent in why my machine is so spoiled emotionally. This, however, hasn't brought me
to any major change, osit. Or I'm still not really understanding. Or, it simply is so because I'm not feeling, not being
the theoretical understanding I think to have obtained. So what is the way out, what is the next step here?

Maybe what Laura only recently posted the Session 3 of January 2009 in the Cassiopean Experiment could give a hint.
Something stood out for me there
(while I may be totally off, because the answer was for somebody else's context):

A: False personality must die for the heart to be revealed.

Is it correct to say that the emotional center can only open up if the false personality has died? That is, a major part of the work
has to be done before it is possible to 'wake up' the emotional center, so to speak? The major lies about oneself have to die beforehand?
Which would mean: keep self-observing, making notes, studying, and have a whole lot of patience?
Or am I totally off here or mixing up things?

 

[Psalehesost]

A: False personality must die for the heart to be revealed.

Is it correct to say that the emotional center can only open up if the false personality has died? That is, a major part of the work
has to be done before it is possible to 'wake up' the emotional center, so to speak? The major lies about oneself have to die beforehand?
Which would mean: keep self-observing, making notes, studying, and have a whole lot of patience?
Or am I totally off here or mixing up things?

Certainly, there are very emotional people who clearly do have a false personality - the bulk of emotional people, as it happens. Every "man 2".

What I'd think is meant by "the heart" in that quote is the higher emotional center - which seems to be placed, going by what I've read, at the "heart chakra".

To "wake up" the lower emotional center (what is meant when simply referring to the emotional center without lower/higher designation), I'd think, indeed, that psychological work gradually could clear up the "blockages" (resulting from the workings of the personality as it has formed, due to trauma and/or conditioning) that may be putting a strangehold on either all emotions or just a subset of them.

Then, there are also shocks. A sufficiently large one (I wish I had!) could "blast through" the blockage and result in a major surge of emotion, though whether it brings benefit or ends up adding to one's "misconfiguration" depend on how it is handled. (if the emotional surge results in mechanical attempts to control and/or divert the energy, then things are going wrong. if on the other hand it is accepted and allowed to occur without identification, it could be of great help. see stickied "Depression as a Stepping Stone" threads in this forum)

Gurdjieff, it seems, tried to shock Ouspensky, with the result that he began to mentally distance himself and "the system" from G, since he could not handle it constructively.

 

[nemo]

Gurdjieff, it seems, tried to shock Ouspensky, with the result that he began to mentally distance himself and "the system" from G, since he could not handle it constructively.

William P. Patterson suggests in Struggle Of The Magicans ...:

A possible deduction might be that Gurdjieff could not discover Uspensii`s chief feature. It was too hidden. Which would mean, that Gurdjieff, at root, didn`t understand Uspenskii.

This is, of course, just educated speculation on Patterson`s part.

In my self-observations I've noticed how very shut down my emotional center is, how very hard it is for me to really feel, and I've somehow developed a kind of longing for my emotional center to open up, as I'm feeling that something very essential is missing! ...I personally have difficulty in putting some things into practice, like for example healing one's past
wounds by oneself.

Am still half guessing but also suspect that my emotional centre needs most work. I`m quite doubtful that one can easily heal those past wounds without outside help. My mother tells that even as a baby and toddler I didn`t like being touched! My mother is not a cold woman, but then I`m not coming from a hugging family either. The fact that I had endogenic eczema (ugly skin condition where one scratches oneself bloody) as a baby might of course play a role (feeling horrible in one`s own skin). The point I`m trying to make is that I believe that a lot of our "emotional wounds" were created so early in one`s life that I find it difficult to imagine how one could possibly "get there". I find "regression therapy" sounds potentially helpful - but don`t know much about it.

A sufficiently large one (I wish I had!) could "blast through" the blockage and result in a major surge of emotion, though whether it brings benefit or ends up adding to one's "misconfiguration" depend on how it is handled.

As a teenager and adult I had always problems with weeping/expressing emotion. A week long stay in an anthroposophical hospital half a decade ago (chronic liver probl.) proved borderline traumatic. Not only was I confronted with my illness/possibility of dying before "my time" but also with other patients, some of whom I bonded with during my stay (one had cancer, the other was trying to starve herself to death and a young prostitute with Morbus Crohn told me of her abuse by a satanic sect). When I got back home I was seriously depressed. For the first time I heard the famous violin piece (adaggio something) by Samuel Barber on the radio ...and the tears poured out of my eyes. Since that time my emotional buffers are well in place again. Only the occasional film moves me to tears (Brokeback Mountain, The Painted Veil) which never happened before that time. If I try really hard to imagine for expl. my father dying I am becoming very emotional.
Based on this and a couple other experiences I`d guess that the right directed therapy could be immensely useful in working on one`s emotional centre.
I don`t know much about therapys (little bit on Analysis and Gestalt) but wonder if certain group therapys couldn`t be utilized to tear down those emotional buffers???
My feeling is that self-observation might get one to a certain point, beyond which outside help is needed.

The work changes. Up to one point, one gets fairly clear guidance. Then comes a time when it becomes so confusing that you can easily do the wrong thing in the conviction that it is right

quoted from SOTM

 

[Pierre]

My mother tells that even as a baby and toddler I didn`t like being touched! My mother is not a cold woman, but then I`m not coming from a hugging family either.

That's one of the problem when we start inquiring about our childhoods. Usually the only witnesses are our parents who might not be very objective about what really happened.

Laura wrote the following in 9/11 TUT

The curious thing about the monkey experiments was that the sense of touch was more important than the feeding. A fuzzy surrogate with no milk was preferred over a wire surrogate with milk. This demonstrates a high level need for touching and caressing. It also suggests the “mode” of this “mother imprint”—it is sensory. Kinesthetic. It relates to pleasurable feelings of the body—how one is “touched”.

So I find it quite puzzling to read that a baby doesn't like to be touched. It sounds like claiming that a fish doesn't like water.

I guess it can be an easy (conscious or unconscious) excuse for touching that didn't involve love or no touching at all.

Justifying the absence of touching because of the baby dislike of touching sounds like blaming the victim.

From what I understand babies do like loving touching and they are the first victims of a lack of loving touching.

 

[Andrew]

What about in a situation where there is an under-developed emotional center, so observations might be even more difficult? I know it was referenced that Gurdjieff was trying to awaken Ouspenskys emotional center, and I'm wondering what that might consist of - 'awakening ones emotional center'? Also what might the reasons be for an under-developed emotional center? Obviously, lack of it's use for one thing but does this manifest from past psychological experiences that caused that particular center to cease expression?

I've actually read all of those books and was pretty sure this was the case. That's actually where I was headed when I said 'does this manifest from past psychological experiences that caused that particular center to cease expression?'. I'm curious however if there might be other possibilities? If not then I'm going to go back and re-read those books.

Hi Andrew,
I've been thinking about this topic lately, too. In my self-observations I've noticed how very shut down my emotional center is,
how very hard it is for me to really feel, and I've somehow developed a kind of longing for my emotional center to open up,
as I'm feeling that something very essential is missing!
While from recapitulation it seems to be clearly stemming from past psychological imprinting/experience, it's pretty unclear to me
how to 'open up my heart', if I may put it this way.

Hey essence I have the same longing for the emotional center to open up. Quite many times I'm faced with experiences that call for the expression of the emotional center. Neglect and "no touching" was a common in my household, and being the only child for quite some time sort of reinforced it in my own Psyche. Once my brothers came along and got a little older I was eventually able to tell that they couldn't understand why their older brother would push them off when they wanted to hug, or open themselves up to me or display any kind of emotional affection whatever. As I'm typing this I can actually feel what I think to be my "emotional center" being expressed now as I recall those past moments - a sort of sadness for my past actions because I now see the effect it's had on one of my brothers, who at 10 years old is already starting to put into practice, in his own way emotional repression.

Anyways the problem became that I was able to see when an emotional response, naturally would be the proper mode of expression to use (you sort of just feel it - gotta pay attention though), however I was paralyzed by inaction and what I can now recognize as the Thinking Center coming into play and trying to rationalize the emotions of another. As is stated in In Search of the Miraculous by Gurdjieff

The mind cannot understand shades of feeling. We shall see this clearly if we imagine one man reasoning about the emotions of another. He is not feeling anything himself so the feelings of another do not exist for him. A full man does not understand a hungry one. But for the other they have a very definite existence.

This seems to be exactly what was experienced most often. However it was only until I started gaining an understanding of the centers and their functions and utilizing Self-Observation that I realized there was a definite choice that could be made - to express or not to express was most definitely the question. And as scary and difficult it was when I first started to change my habits it's become easier. However I find difficulty in "observing" the emotions; my understanding must be lacking in that regard.


I don't know if this helps - but for what it's worth.

Some thoughts:
The ways towards developing the emotional center could be:

1) Healing your psychological wounds through reading and applying the psycho book section, as in autopsychoanalysis.
This would neccessitate, as far as I can see, understanding what exactly happenend and how it affected your machine,
plus feeling all the pain you had once again - but consciously. As in: all the dirt needs to be washed out, needs to be removed.
Which leads me to a question to the community:
Is it okay to ask questions concerning the first step of the Work which is about
psychological healing? I personally have difficulty in putting some things into practice, like for example healing one's past
wounds by oneself. Is it a direct healing (as in feeling it all again) or do the psychological malfunctions vanish away on their own
by self-observation and understanding the mechanisms, and the effect of the detached observer, that is non-identification?
I think the main problem for me is to unite both healing and Work principles (eg if I concentrate on healing sth from my past
I get indulged in it pretty fast, I again become the child and victim. Is it necessary to feel the child's pain again full-blown,
or is it more appropriate to remain in the observer role from the beginning?).

2) Keep up self-observation and getting to know your machine and its modi operandi.
3) Praying to the Universe and/or Future STO Self to assist in opening the emotional center. :D
4) other possibilities? like Andrew asked

I've always been very indulgent in why my machine is so spoiled emotionally. This, however, hasn't brought me
to any major change, osit. Or I'm still not really understanding. Or, it simply is so because I'm not feeling, not being
the theoretical understanding I think to have obtained. So what is the way out, what is the next step here?

I share similar inquiries and would like to know as well what is the next step? Sure I think having a solid understanding of your past experiences and how its affected your life now is important. But to also realize that as children we were not responsible for what we went through, but as adults we are responsible for the changes we can make. I'm still very uncertain however, how exactly these feelings are supposed to go away. I still find myself having very bad feelings towards my mother and father and don't want to anymore :/

Maybe what Laura only recently posted the Session 3 of January 2009 in the Cassiopean Experiment could give a hint.
Something stood out for me there
(while I may be totally off, because the answer was for somebody else's context):

A: False personality must die for the heart to be revealed.

Is it correct to say that the emotional center can only open up if the false personality has died? That is, a major part of the work
has to be done before it is possible to 'wake up' the emotional center, so to speak? The major lies about oneself have to die beforehand?
Which would mean: keep self-observing, making notes, studying, and have a whole lot of patience?
Or am I totally off here or mixing up things?

Hmmm. Can it only open up under that circumstance? Hard to say. Even without having shed the false personality completely I think it's possible for one to begin utilizing or putting into practice the use of the emotional center.

 

[Aiming]

..a sort of sadness for my past actions because I now see the effect it's had on one of my brothers, who at 10 years old is already starting to put into practice, in his own way emotional repression.

I can feel your sadness here. I think what's important to realize is that it was not your consciious doing. You were acting towards your brothers in the very way your parents taught you (by painful example) to act. Children copy their parents behaviour, because they accept it as right. With that realization made, you can now choose to act diffenrently towards your 10 yr old brother - and the other brother(s) too. One could say 'It's too late now, the damage has been done to him already', but I think it's never too late. If he sees you -his older brother- acting diffenretly, more open and warm, maybe this can change something in him, too.

Thanks for the G quote, that's exactly my condition, too: accessing or trying to access the emotions of another via mind and imagination.
No surprise why - there's no love in the whole of our family, no relatedness, no felt responsibility for each other (the women of the family all have diabetes - in naturopathy it's said that those who don't have love inside them often develop diabetes - no way to assimilate 'sweetness'). My father was an undercover killer in the 70's and 80's and is now, as evidence suggests, an innocent in jail (as if life symbolically put him in his position: life is a prison and he's yet in another prison, being in prison in a prison). He wrote a book about his killer times and when I read it it was tearing me apart how he could kill people so coldly and fully justified, this is deeply horrible!!! Up to this day there's no understanding in him about his deeds, no remorse, no feeling, just: Well I was young and I thought I was doing the right thing. And this from my own father! :O

I still find myself having very bad feelings towards my mother and father and don't want to anymore

Same here, Andrew. You know, I've been planning to do this letter thing: writing a letter to each family member you were/are involved with and put all the feelings you have inside them, and while writing to make efforts to feel it all as intensively as possible, for to let all of it out - and when you're finished you're burning the letter, as a symbol!
I think this can be very powerful, but I have constantly postponed it - so much pain to be expected. But that's the way, I guess. Have you spotted a fear of yourself? Well, the way is always towards and through the fear, otherwise you'll never move ahead. (sth like that, from one of my teachers)
Thanks for sharing, Andrew and fwiw. :)