Preparedness

[Gwenllian]

Preparedness, regarding food.

Just a thought, or two/three...

Another thought... Since you already have a freezer full of food. You need not concern yourself until that food runs out. No matter that every time you open the door, regardless of whether it is an upright or chest freezer.... that you help to defrost the food remaining in the freezer that you do not use... You may as well hand it out to your neighbors & then they can utilize that frozen food so you do not defrost more than you can utilize yourself for yourself & your families' needs....Again, don't forget those servings... You may as well just use only part of what you have frozen & pass the rest along. Hopefully your neighbors have a full freezer too. You can take turns.... Unless the electricity is not there to help the compressor keep the food frozen..... Ooops. did you forget about that? What do ya do now? Electricity gone... Now, every time you open the freezer & defrost. there s no re-freezing effect. You may have about 4 days before the entire freezer contents have gone bad or can possibly make you sick. & don't forget the neighbors... Their freezer is in the same shape... Oh... but what say you have exhausted your food.... that what didn't go bad. & the neighbors did too... Doggone PTB.. should have got the electricity goin faster.... Hey.... What about canning some of that food? If ya had some canned that would probably get ya through a lttle longer...Well.... both you & the neighbors thought there was no need to prepare.....Why even think of that now????

You'd have been better off emptying your freezers the first day & filling them with potable water to drink. It is said that you can last approx. 3 weeks without food, but on average, only 3 days without adequate potable water.....

Why prepare for more than 3 days?

Waaalllll. Ya might want to think on it.

Dyin of thirst is not an easy way ta go, from what I understand. Starving isn't much easier... & watching the weaker ones go first.. Well that might just torment ya a lil bit.... since ya didn't even prepare at all....When you could have....

Just some thoughts. ( albeit , perhaps harsher than some would like.)
Respects,
JB/MnSportsman

I bought a ceramic water filter, which you can de-assemble if necessary and take with you. We have rain barrels in the garden.
We used it when we were in West-Africa for a while and that worked well.

Also, we are talking food and water here, but that has to go somewhere sometime! So also think of safe ways of disposing of your poop, when there is no water. It is best to make a compost heap if you have the space. You can cover it with anything that is organic (including bits of paper).

Also, girls and women who have their periods could make their own washable (or throw away) pads.

Sorry, Sportsman if this too much for you. But this is what I have been thinking about.

 

[Gwenllian]

Thanks Elisa and Data for the information. :)

I will be looking into meat drying now.

BTW, thanking people for the information, is that noise?

 

[truth seeker]

Thanks Elisa and Data for the information. :)

I will be looking into meat drying now.

BTW, thanking people for the information, is that noise?

Not at all, M. Expressions of gratitude are always welcome and appreciated. :)

 

[MnSportsman]

> I snipped this out of the post:

"Also, we are talking food and water here, but that has to go somewhere sometime! So also think of safe ways of disposing of your poop, when there is no water. It is best to make a compost heap if you have the space. You can cover it with anything that is organic (including bits of paper).

Also, girls and women who have their periods could make their own washable (or throw away) pads.

Sorry, Sportsman if this too much for you. But this is what I have been thinking about."

Mariama,

It seems to me that this topic, "Preparation" in the context of what the OriginalPoster( Laura) seemed to have in mind, was in regard to canning meat for "preparation" of future higher food prices.

> I snipped this out of the post:

"I'm going to experiment with doing that in the next week or so while the price of stew beef is still affordable. I think prices are going to get very high and people who need to eat meat might want to do the same."

I also see that it has evolved a bit from that. I believe that the type of evolution that is happening to this thread is good, for many reasons. Particularly though, to get folks to think on the future & some preparation for it. So, your bringing up of preparation for handling waste, or "sanitation & hygiene", as I would call it, would not be moving away from the topics "Title", (although others might disagree); Although it does not seem to correspond to the content of the original post regarding future meat prices & preparation for that.
( I admit that I may have also "sidetracked" this original topic content a bit in my posts, although the intent was not malicious, & it seems no one reminded anyone of a possible "sidetrack/hijack", if there was an issue.)

Regardless of that, the points you have brought up should be of concern for folks who wish to prepare for future events that are not of their control. Even though it is not regarding preparing meats for the future, those points are certainly worthy of discussion. It seems to me , that it is for those who monitor/moderate this forum to decide if we have strayed, or not and if we should continue ...., or move to a different title/topic.
:)

& No apology necessary Mariama, for bringing up female(or male) human biological habits in my case. I am well aware in regard to both, & how to handle them, in their place in situations that are, let me say, "difficult". I am not a stranger to what I would call, "roughing it".
;)

Respects to all,
JB/MnSportsman


My edit: moved > " I snipped this out of the post:" out of quote boxes.

 

[stellar]

Certainly not everyone is able to keep animals but smoking meet, I think, is still a practical and effective way to prepare and if done properly does not require refrigeration. Smoked bacon and eggs is awesome. ;D

This article says about smoking meat:

Meat drying after presalting, as described above, is the simplest and most efficient method of meat dehydration. Additional treatments used for some special dried meat products are curing, smoking and the utilization of spices and food additives.

[...]

Smoking of meat is a technique in which meat is exposed directly to wood smoke which may be generated by a variety of methods. In smoke produced from wood there are various substances which contribute to the flavour and the appearance of the smoked meat product and which have a certain preserving effect on the product.

However, the preserving effect of common smoking is not very significant when storing the product without a cold chain. On the other hand, intensive or prolonged smoking may considerably increase the shelf-life of the product, but it also has an unfavourable effect on flavour. Whereas a light smoke aroma generally enhances the organoleptic properties of the product, intensive smoking has a negative influence on the quality, especially in the case of prolonged storage in which concentrated smoke compounds develop increasingly unpleasant tarry flavours.

In view of the above, smoking in order to preserve meat can only be considered as an emergency measure when no other preservation methods can be carried out. This may be the case during wet weather or generally under a humid climate, or when the preservation has to be completed as fast as possible because of the need of immediate transport, for instance after game-hunting.

Um, my post from which the above was extracted seems to have disappeared??

 

[stellar]

I remember back in the 60's my grandparents used to smoke pork in various cuts and sausages once a year and that lasted them and our family a full year until the next cull. Times were hard then where I'm from and every morsel counted and wasn't wasted. Chickens and ducks (freerange) were kept for eggs and only occasionally killed for food when the yungens were of laying age.

These days people are too used to packaged food and don't want to put in the hard work to prepare in advance. Certainly not everyone is able to keep animals but smoking meet, I think, is still a practical and effective way to prepare and if done properly does not require refrigeration. Smoked bacon and eggs is awesome. ;D

So how did they go about smoking the meat, Stellar? Above an open fire in the garden?
I must sound ignorant (a typical product of a fridge generation).

Sorry for late reply.
They would place large cuts into a barrel with lots of sea salt (to draw out moisture and as a preservative) and let it sit for two to three days (possibly longer if weather is warm). After that time cuts of meat are taken out of the barrel, excess salt brushed off and placed/hung in very small shed like smoke house.
A fire is started on the ground of the smoke house using wood (preferably from fruit trees) but must not be allowed to flame, only smoke.This is done twice a day for a couple of hours then let the fire go out and the meat remains closed in the smoke house. After about four days small cuts can be sampled and if centre is still 'damp' repeat process for another day or two, depending on how dry you want the meat to be. The drier the longer it will last.

They also used to use the intestines, rigorously cleaned and washed in which to put the mince for sausages (spices added into mince according to taste). Once the intestines are filled and end tied off, they too are hung to smoke and dry.

When the meat is prepared this way it can be eaten as is or cooked/fried for softer texture.

Hope I explained it clearly enough. :)
Edited; retrieved original post from saved draft. Don't usually save them though. :/

 

[truth seeker]

Thanks Elisa and Data for the information. :)

I will be looking into meat drying now.

BTW, thanking people for the information, is that noise?

Not at all, M. Expressions of gratitude are always welcome and appreciated. :)

Actually Mariama, just to clarify that in this specific case, it's okay but it is dependent upon each situation. Apologies for any confusion everyone.

 

[Finduilas495]

Hi everyone,

I have a question re meat canning. I bought an electric steam canner (brand is Weck), but it's not a pressure canner (they don't exist in central Europe). I also have one of those old fashioned Rex canners for the stove with a thermometer, that one's not a pressure canner either. Now I've been looking for recipes. The recipes from the English speaking world all use the meat raw (does that have to do with the fact they have pressure canners?) while the recipes from the German speaking world insist the meat has to be cooked thoroughly first. I've seen in the Life Without Bread thread that Laura cans raw meat, but you have a pressure canner, right? My research left me a bit confused there. I'd be grateful if someone could add some information here.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[3DStudent]

Hi Finduilas495, you need a pressure canner for low acid foods like vegetables and meat. The temperature of water bath methods isn't high enough to kill all the bacteria in those foods.

I'm not sure what a steam canner is. If it doesn't reach 10 pounds of pressure, or 113C / 235F degrees, then you shouldn't can meat in it.

And some people like to cook the meat before they pressure can it as a precaution. But many just put the raw meat in and pressure can it without precooking it.

 

[Gwenllian]

> I snipped this out of the post:

"Also, we are talking food and water here, but that has to go somewhere sometime! So also think of safe ways of disposing of your poop, when there is no water. It is best to make a compost heap if you have the space. You can cover it with anything that is organic (including bits of paper).

Also, girls and women who have their periods could make their own washable (or throw away) pads.

Sorry, Sportsman if this too much for you. But this is what I have been thinking about."

Mariama,

It seems to me that this topic, "Preparation" in the context of what the OriginalPoster( Laura) seemed to have in mind, was in regard to canning meat for "preparation" of future higher food prices.

> I snipped this out of the post:

"I'm going to experiment with doing that in the next week or so while the price of stew beef is still affordable. I think prices are going to get very high and people who need to eat meat might want to do the same."

I also see that it has evolved a bit from that. I believe that the type of evolution that is happening to this thread is good, for many reasons. Particularly though, to get folks to think on the future & some preparation for it. So, your bringing up of preparation for handling waste, or "sanitation & hygiene", as I would call it, would not be moving away from the topics "Title", (although others might disagree); Although it does not seem to correspond to the content of the original post regarding future meat prices & preparation for that.
( I admit that I may have also "sidetracked" this original topic content a bit in my posts, although the intent was not malicious, & it seems no one reminded anyone of a possible "sidetrack/hijack", if there was an issue.)

Regardless of that, the points you have brought up should be of concern for folks who wish to prepare for future events that are not of their control. Even though it is not regarding preparing meats for the future, those points are certainly worthy of discussion. It seems to me , that it is for those who monitor/moderate this forum to decide if we have strayed, or not and if we should continue ...., or move to a different title/topic.
:)

& No apology necessary Mariama, for bringing up female(or male) human biological habits in my case. I am well aware in regard to both, & how to handle them, in their place in situations that are, let me say, "difficult". I am not a stranger to what I would call, "roughing it".
;)

Respects to all,
JB/MnSportsman


My edit: moved > " I snipped this out of the post:" out of quote boxes.

Thanks JB/MnSportsman.

I realised that I had strayed a bit. But I can't think about food without considering the end product so to speak.

It is clear that you are not a stranger to what you call, "roughing it".
I was in Africa for about a year. And saw over there that not only safe food becomes a top priority, but also safe drinking water, health and personal hygiene. We had days on end without access to a river or a shower or a toilet. We washed our hands three times a day at the beginning of our meals and that was it. We had water that we could drink, but the taste became terrible at some point because of the stuff that was put in there.

It is okay if the mods decide to remove my posts to another thread. But I agree with you: it is really important to consider water, sanitation and personal hygiene, should the infrastructure fall apart. We are so used to good infrastructure here in the West.

Thank you for a great post.

 

[Gwenllian]

I remember back in the 60's my grandparents used to smoke pork in various cuts and sausages once a year and that lasted them and our family a full year until the next cull. Times were hard then where I'm from and every morsel counted and wasn't wasted. Chickens and ducks (freerange) were kept for eggs and only occasionally killed for food when the yungens were of laying age.

These days people are too used to packaged food and don't want to put in the hard work to prepare in advance. Certainly not everyone is able to keep animals but smoking meet, I think, is still a practical and effective way to prepare and if done properly does not require refrigeration. Smoked bacon and eggs is awesome. ;D

So how did they go about smoking the meat, Stellar? Above an open fire in the garden?
I must sound ignorant (a typical product of a fridge generation).

Sorry for late reply.
They would place large cuts into a barrel with lots of sea salt (to draw out moisture and as a preservative) and let it sit for two to three days (possibly longer if weather is warm). After that time cuts of meat are taken out of the barrel, excess salt brushed off and placed/hung in very small shed like smoke house.
A fire is started on the ground of the smoke house using wood (preferably from fruit trees) but must not be allowed to flame, only smoke.This is done twice a day for a couple of hours then let the fire go out and the meat remains closed in the smoke house. After about four days small cuts can be sampled and if centre is still 'damp' repeat process for another day or two, depending on how dry you want the meat to be. The drier the longer it will last.

They also used to use the intestines, rigorously cleaned and washed in which to put the mince for sausages (spices added into mince according to taste). Once the intestines are filled and end tied off, they too are hung to smoke and dry.

When the meat is prepared this way it can be eaten as is or cooked/fried for softer texture.

Hope I explained it clearly enough. :)
Edited; retrieved original post from saved draft. Don't usually save them though. :/

Thank you Stellar. Do not worry your post is late. I think of this forum and its people quite a bit, but can't always find the time to post, either.

What you wrote I found really interesting. It may be cheaper for us to build a small temporary smoke house, I am not sure. But I will definitely look into it.
I am just wondering how long you could keep smoked meat, when it is thoroughly dry.

 

[stellar]

I remember back in the 60's my grandparents used to smoke pork in various cuts and sausages once a year and that lasted them and our family a full year until the next cull. Times were hard then where I'm from and every morsel counted and wasn't wasted. Chickens and ducks (freerange) were kept for eggs and only occasionally killed for food when the yungens were of laying age.

These days people are too used to packaged food and don't want to put in the hard work to prepare in advance. Certainly not everyone is able to keep animals but smoking meet, I think, is still a practical and effective way to prepare and if done properly does not require refrigeration. Smoked bacon and eggs is awesome. ;D

So how did they go about smoking the meat, Stellar? Above an open fire in the garden?
I must sound ignorant (a typical product of a fridge generation).

Sorry for late reply.
They would place large cuts into a barrel with lots of sea salt (to draw out moisture and as a preservative) and let it sit for two to three days (possibly longer if weather is warm). After that time cuts of meat are taken out of the barrel, excess salt brushed off and placed/hung in very small shed like smoke house.
A fire is started on the ground of the smoke house using wood (preferably from fruit trees) but must not be allowed to flame, only smoke.This is done twice a day for a couple of hours then let the fire go out and the meat remains closed in the smoke house. After about four days small cuts can be sampled and if centre is still 'damp' repeat process for another day or two, depending on how dry you want the meat to be. The drier the longer it will last.

They also used to use the intestines, rigorously cleaned and washed in which to put the mince for sausages (spices added into mince according to taste). Once the intestines are filled and end tied off, they too are hung to smoke and dry.

When the meat is prepared this way it can be eaten as is or cooked/fried for softer texture.

Hope I explained it clearly enough. :)
Edited; retrieved original post from saved draft. Don't usually save them though. :/

Thank you Stellar. Do not worry your post is late. I think of this forum and its people quite a bit, but can't always find the time to post, either.

What you wrote I found really interesting. It may be cheaper for us to build a small temporary smoke house, I am not sure. But I will definitely look into it.
I am just wondering how long you could keep smoked meat, when it is thoroughly dry.

In the eurpean climate it would easily keep for a year in a droughty or cool place, like an attic or a cellar. As long as it is not near sunlight it's ok. One thing about it is that it is more economical than buying gadgets to do the drying etc.

 

[Chrissy]

For anyone who wants to further explore the methods of smoking meat, I have been reading this book "Meat Smoking And The Smokehouse Design" by Stanley, Adam And Robert Marianski. The chapters cover technology, curing, food safety, recipes and actual designs for building your own smokehouse. They range from simple to more complex. I thought there were some really innovative ideas presented that fit different budgets and building skills. One was even made from a cardboard box.
I am hoping this will be a family project for later on this fall. I have never smoked meat before and I am still researching. The type of wood used to burn concerns me. Wood working is my hobby, so I use wood toxicity lists as a reference (google "wood toxicity lists" and quite a few come up) and I wear a respirator. When I do that, I am thinking more about dust exposure, but the same applies for smoke. I found this website helpful "Dee Jays Smoke Pit.net ". There is a downloadable list of woods that are safe and unsafe. (It's 5 pages so I didn't think I should attach it here.)
Also, I just wanted to say I am enjoying this thread. Thank you for everyone's ideas and input. On a side note, I made my first meal in a pressure cooker last night and it was easier than I thought. Thank you for that inspiration! Canning is next on my list.

 

[Finduilas495]

Hi Finduilas495, you need a pressure canner for low acid foods like vegetables and meat. The temperature of water bath methods isn't high enough to kill all the bacteria in those foods.

I'm not sure what a steam canner is. If it doesn't reach 10 pounds of pressure, or 113C / 235F degrees, then you shouldn't can meat in it.

And some people like to cook the meat before they pressure can it as a precaution. But many just put the raw meat in and pressure can it without precooking it.

Thank you for the information, 3D Student!

I ordered a book with canning recipes in German and apparently they do can meat in a water bath canner around here, provided it's thoroughly cooked before it's filled in the glasses. It's still supposed to keep for a year or two using that method. The electrical canner I've got keeps a constant temperature, so there should be no risk it goes below 100C. So I shall give it a try and report the results.

They don't recommend canning raw meat that way, since it's very likely to spoil. I did look at buying a pressure canner from the US, but the shipping fees to Europe sort of put me off...

 

[stellar]

Wood working is my hobby, so I use wood toxicity lists as a reference (google "wood toxicity lists" and quite a few come up) and I wear a respirator. When I do that, I am thinking more about dust exposure, but the same applies for smoke. I found this website helpful "Dee Jays Smoke Pit.net ". There is a downloadable list of woods that are safe and unsafe. (It's 5 pages so I didn't think I should attach it here.)

That's why I mentioned wood/branches from fruit trees in my post. They are not usually sprayed with toxins if they are from our own gardens or from someone we know that doesn't spray their fruit trees.