Preparedness

[Laura]

We are making sure we have a bit of both - gold and meat. When people are really hungry, they won't want gold. Only those who are not hungry will want your gold in exchange for something - maybe food if YOU are hungry. Best to prepare for all possibilities.

 

[Mikey]

It is illusory in that we have given it value by telling ourselves it is worth something. Value to me is ideological and not a real construct.

The C's on illusion:

Q: (A) And I am also an illusion! And understanding is also an illusion! ...
A: Everything is real, therefore, illusion is reality.

 

[Z...]

Be careful eating too much rabbit. I remember my Grandma telling me that you can't eat it too long because it lacks some kind of vitamin. She used to raise rabbits for food. Its anecdotal, but might be worth checking out.

I think your grandma was referring to 'rabbit starvation' phenomenon which is basically effect of exclusively eating super lean meat such as rabbits with virtually no fat
here is an interesting quote from wikipedia rabbit starvation entry:
"The groups that depend on the blubber animals are the most fortunate in the hunting way of life, for they never suffer from fat-hunger. This trouble is worst, so far as North America is concerned, among those forest Indians who depend at times on rabbits, the leanest animal in the North, and who develop the extreme fat-hunger known as rabbit-starvation. Rabbit eaters, if they have no fat from another source—beaver, moose, fish—will develop diarrhoea in about a week, with headache, lassitude and vague discomfort. If there are enough rabbits, the people eat till their stomachs are distended; but no matter how much they eat they feel unsatisfied. Some think a man will die sooner if he eats continually of fat-free meat than if he eats nothing, but this is a belief on which sufficient evidence for a decision has not been gathered in the North. Deaths from rabbit-starvation, or from the eating of other skinny meat, are rare; for everyone understands the principle, and any possible preventive steps are naturally taken."

Seems proteins are nothing without nice animal fat. ;)

 

[Nević Nenad]

In my experience during 90s, gold is worthless, as any other piece of precious metal or jewelry. Food have value, or objects that can be used for something (or to be exchanged for food). I heard stories from the people who lived in Sarajevo under the siege. Their families had gold and jewelry but no one wanted it. It could be only exchanged for food or german marks but very very undervalued. One friend's mother sold hers golden and diamond ring for twenty german marks, and then use them to buy about half kilogram of lamb.

I think that value can have food, clothes, foot wear, hygienic products (more simple the better, like soap), tools (but which don't need electricity), and overall objects that can have practical use.

 

[Z...]

In my experience during 90s, gold is worthless, as any other piece of precious metal or jewelry. Food have value, or objects that can be used for something (or to be exchanged for food). I heard stories from the people who lived in Sarajevo under the siege. Their families had gold and jewelry but no one wanted it. It could be only exchanged for food or german marks but very very undervalued. One friend's mother sold hers golden and diamond ring for twenty german marks, and then use them to buy about half kilogram of lamb.

I think that value can have food, clothes, foot wear, hygienic products (more simple the better, like soap), tools (but which don't need electricity), and overall objects that can have practical use.

you are talking about civil war situation where the cash flow of foreign currencies was abundant, we are talking about complete collapse of monetary system, apple and oranges really ;)

 

[Nević Nenad]

In my experience during 90s, gold is worthless, as any other piece of precious metal or jewelry. Food have value, or objects that can be used for something (or to be exchanged for food). I heard stories from the people who lived in Sarajevo under the siege. Their families had gold and jewelry but no one wanted it. It could be only exchanged for food or german marks but very very undervalued. One friend's mother sold hers golden and diamond ring for twenty german marks, and then use them to buy about half kilogram of lamb.

I think that value can have food, clothes, foot wear, hygienic products (more simple the better, like soap), tools (but which don't need electricity), and overall objects that can have practical use.

you are talking about civil war situation where the cash flow of foreign currencies was abundant, we are talking about complete collapse of monetary system, apple and oranges really ;)

No. I gave example with civil war, but I also was talking about "complete collapse of monetary system". So:

I think that value can have food, clothes, foot wear, hygienic products (more simple the better, like soap), tools (but which don't need electricity), and overall objects that can have practical use.

And on that I would also add: skills that you know.

 

[herondancer]

All I know is I'd much rather receive a hunk of meat in exchange for my skills or tools rather than a supposed precious metal. Smiley.

What will you do when the seller demands gold for meat?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvJNpkLxyzg

Find another that would barter :D

ScottD, your reply seems a little flippant. Did you really watch that video? There was no offer for any other sort of barter for these people, and it could be equally so for you.

edit: added quote

 

[go2]

In my experience during 90s, gold is worthless, as any other piece of precious metal or jewelry. Food have value, or objects that can be used for something (or to be exchanged for food). I heard stories from the people who lived in Sarajevo under the siege. Their families had gold and jewelry but no one wanted it. It could be only exchanged for food or german marks but very very undervalued. One friend's mother sold hers golden and diamond ring for twenty german marks, and then use them to buy about half kilogram of lamb.

I think that value can have food, clothes, foot wear, hygienic products (more simple the better, like soap), tools (but which don't need electricity), and overall objects that can have practical use.

you are talking about civil war situation where the cash flow of foreign currencies was abundant, we are talking about complete collapse of monetary system, apple and oranges really ;)

Arbitrium Liberum has a good point. Gold is best left in the ground during a period of chaos and used for commerce after order is restored. Gold is most useful as a long term store of value. I think coconut oil, olive oil, beeswax, honey, sorghum, chickpeas, garden seeds etc. are the sort of products which have a long shelf life without needing refrigeration that would be useful for barter in case of collapse of distribution systems. I have started eating extra virgin coconut oil and can't wait to try it with chickpeas. :)

We make salves from beeswax, coconut oil, and olive oil. It is easy. All you need is a double boiler to melt the beeswax and then add olive oil and coconut oil to the desired consistency. Our friends love the salves combined with various essential oils as medicinals or as cosmetics. Soaps can be made in the kitchen from the same ingredients, but I haven't tried that yet. These are the sorts of things I think would be good for bartering.

 

[Ca.]

WATER, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_water) is going to be a vital and treasured resource in the event that local municipality's, have a limited capacity to deliver water, do to earthquakes, floods, hurricane, tornadoes, winter storms, natural disasters, or a terrorist attack, and a power failure, exacerbated by an economic collapse. This would be a test of the grid, of being unable to deliver to the home tap. During disaster's water is usually the first item to fly off the store shelves in a panic.

Their will be a tremendous challenge to maintain supply levels for practical, as well as survival needs. The amounts needed will very depending upon age, physical condition, activity, diet and climate. The recommended daily intake is 8 cups a day, under normal condition's. You will need to double that amount in hotter climate's. Children, nursing women, and ill people will need more. It's also advised, that persons electrolytes are replenish when consuming copious amounts of water, to maintain mineral's, magnesium, and potassium levels, again depending the activity's of the day, to support brain, and body functions.

The amount of water perperson, perday, is one gallon, with pets needing 1 quart a day, per dog, or cat. Storing at least a thready supply is recommended, but consider storing a weeks supply, if your home has enough space for it. But worse case scenario will be that the population will forced to become hunter, gathers, of water, food, and fuel.

An Example would be, should a condition of an unavailable water source were to become a problem in the home, one would be forced to now hunt for a constint source of water, to supply what would be needed for drinking, cooking, bathing, washing cloths, (low priority) and possible sanitation needs.

If you are fortunate, and are connected to a well, that (if free of contaminant's) will be a unseen asset that will have major dividends and will prove, more value than gold. Other sources that can be had are at stream's, rivers, lakes, springs, and water collection during rains.

Storage of water containers should be of foodgrade plastic or glass bottles, with tight fitting screw caps. Avoid water storage in PVC plastic containers, due to the long term storage and health concerns. You can buy new plastic containers for water storage in most housewares and sporting goods departments, and clean biodegrade containers may be available for purchase at water vending machines. If your using glass be sure they are lead free glass containers, and wash the containers and lids thoroughly with hot tap water and dish detergent. Rinse thoroughly with hot tap water.

If you draw your sources of water from open source's from the land scape around you, your more than likely (assume, than guessing) are going to have to treat it to be consumed. With all rivers, streams, lakes, springs, and ponds, you will be in competition with the animal kingdom. They are know to defaecate, urinate. Animals will be stalked while drinking at water ways by predator's, and killed at watering holes and end up dieing or the carcase is left to rot in or near rivers or streams. This will providing a host of possible attack issues that can and could be life threatening.

Also industrial pollution, from mining, construction, ammunition plants, fertilizer processing plants, coal fired energy plants, run off from highways with petroleum hydrocarbons, and rubber compounds, can add deadly chemical compounds exposure to water. Water ways can contain such chemicals, and poisons which can include, high levels of arsenic, mercury, nitrogen, insecticide's, herbicides, heavy metals, pharmaceuticals, and solvents, the list long and the reasons are generally profit motivated.

The following article from www.aquatechnology.net gives a great summary of dealing contaminated waters, and offers solution's to dealing with treating dangerous water issues. Other reading sources on survival, and water purification appliance's can be seen as well at, www.survivaltopics.com/forums and www.911water.com/Berkey-Water-Filter-system-s/58.htm

This section discusses various types of water treatment devices which can be used during an emergency to provide a continuing supply of potable(drinkable) water for your family. This water can then be stored in one or more of the systems discussed in the preceding sections.

If water you locate is brackish, first strain the debris through a paper towel, clean cloth or coffee filter. Then treat by one of the methods described below. Before we look at those specific treatment methods, let's examine the various types of contaminants for which we are taking these special precautions.

Unpurified drinking water may contain four things that pose health risks:

protozoan parasites

toxic bacteria

harmful viruses; and

poisonous chemicals.

The first three categories are pathogens(disease causing) while the fourth is self explanatory.

Protozoa include the well-known Giardia and Cryptosporidium. These two scoundrels have been detected in 90% of U.S. surface waters and are very common in Canada. Protozoa are the largest organisms of the three pathogen categories, ranging in size from 1-16 microns(one micron - 1/1000 of a meter).

Protozoa include the well-known Giardia and Cryptosporidium. These two scoundrels have been detected in 90% of U.S. surface waters and are very common in Canada. Protozoa are the largest organisms of the three pathogen categories, ranging in size from 1-16 microns(one micron - 1/1000 of a meter).

They are more resistant to disinfection by iodine or chlorine than either bacteria or virus, but can be effectively filtered with the proper technology. Giardia are relatively large and easy to catch, but "Crypto" is a sneakier, smaller felon, more likely to pass through units which depend upon filtration for parasite removal.

Devices which protect against Crypto must be proven to remove 99.9% of this organism.

The second category is bacteria. Bacteria include commonly-known organisms such as Campylobacter, E. coli, V. cholera, and Salmonella. Bacteria are intermediate-sized organisms, ranging from 0.2 to about 10 microns. They respond well to disinfection, and can be effectively filtered by any filter that is proven to remove 99.9999% of bacteria.

The third category of pathogens is viruses. Commonly known viruses include Rotavirus, Hepatitis A, Norwalk and Polio. Viruses are truly tiny; they range in size between 0.02 and 0.085 microns, which makes them extremely difficult to filter. Viruses respond well to certain types of disinfection and can be effectively inactivated using a process proven to remove or inactivate 99.99% of virus.

The fourth category, poisonous chemicals, may not pose an immediate health threat as do pathogenic micro-organisms(first three categories) but can raise havoc with the body by destroying great numbers of healthy cells, thus reducing the body's immune capabilities and perhaps opening the door to some type of illness or organ malfunction at some later date.

Even simple chemicals such as chlorine, in high levels, from swimming pool water, should be avoided through the use of proper filtration techniques.

The vast majority of pathogens are introduced by animals, but human beings are also carriers. Feces wash into drainages, carrying with them the disease-causing pathogens. Water moving through the drainages spreads pathogens downstream. Waterborne viruses are unique in that they are species-specific; i.e. human fecal matter must be present for there to be a viral threat to humans.This entire scenario is exacerbated during an emergency.

Reactions range from no symptoms at all, to desperate illness, to death for some immune-compromised individuals as we noted in the Milwaukee example earlier. Your reaction will depend on the specific pathogen and on your immune system.

As we noted earlier, immune systems vary from individual to individual, based on genetic make-up and medical history.

METHODS FOR EFFECTIVE WATER TREATMENT DURING AN EMERGENCY

BOILING
kills all pathogens, including viruses

no special equipment required

requires fuel (electricity assumed not available)

time consuming

impractical for all but a limited amount of water

Although some sources indicate shorter times, we recommend bringing water to a rolling boil and maintain for a minimum of 10 minutes. For every 1000 feet above sea level, add one minute of boiling to the initial 10 minutes. If the water pot is covered, it will shorten the time to reach a boil. Although this method is recognized as the safest treatment under survival or emergency conditions, it is impractical for all but a limited amount of water. IODINE/CHLORINE(CHLOROX)

TREATMENT -

When properly performed, it is effective against almost all pathogens, including viruses- affects taste of water,
IODINE,

inexpensive
temperature sensitive
not recommended for long term use

Dosage: using ordinary 2 percent tincture of iodine from the medicine chest, 3 drops per quart of CLEAR water, or 6 drops to each quart of cloudy water, and stir thoroughly, allow water to stand for at least 30 minutes before using or filtering for additional protection.

The addition of iodine or chlorine is another option for rendering contaminated water drinkable. Some experts discuss the use of chlorine in the form of bleach,which must contain(and be so marked) 5.25% sodium hypo chlorite without soap or phosphates. However, in addition to its immediate poisonous effects, bleach can kill micro-organisms that a natural and vital part of your digestive system. Iodine is preferable to bleach when one has a choice in the matter.

If you choose to use bleach to purify water,

the recommended dosages are 8 drops(1/8 tsp or .5ml) for 1 gallon of CLEAR water; 18 drops(1/4 tsp/1.25 ml) for CLOUDY water.When storing water in 55 gallon drums or inflatable bags, use 55 ml or a stingy, 1/4 cup per 55 gallons of capacity.

Remember, these doses above are for treated city water which has(or should) have a chlorine demand of zero. Water obtained from other sources(lake, stream, etc.) will need more. GET A TEST KIT for free chlorine so guess work is gone. Target your treatment at 3-5 parts per million(ppm) free chorine for city water and 5 ppm for field water.

For use during an emergency, it is recommended that for drinking and cooking, this water be further filtered(see section below) to remove any residual bacteria as well as chlorine prior to use .Bleach loses it strength with time: products which have been on the shelf for one year will be only 50% as effective. In that case the amount used will have to be doubled.

Use a magic marker to indicate date of purchase. Use an eyedropper for dosage, mix well and allow water to stand at least 30 minutes before filtering(for chlorine removal) and usage.Back to iodine for a moment, as it is the preferred process for virus control. Iodine crystals or tablets are inexpensive, lightweight, compact and effective at destroying viruses and most bacteria.

Iodine in tincture or tablet form has difficulty in dealing with the protozoa we noted before(Cryptosporidium and Giardia) because these rascals have a hard, egg-shell shield around them and even straight clorox will not affect them. Iodine thus needs to be combined with a special filtration process(described below) in order to remove all three types of pathogens we listed earlier.

There are limitations to iodine. It takes time to work, its effectiveness is dependent on the pH(acidity/alkalinity) of the water, temperature(cold water reduces its effectiveness) as well as the amount of dirt and/or silt in the untreated water. Taste is also objectionable, but can be removed when used in combination with the filters described below.Also of concern are the possible health risks associated with its use.

Although iodine is considered an essential nutrient, long term ingestion is not recommended. Limitations of a few days to a couple of weeks is suggested, with individuals having weak immune systems on the short side of that limit. Pregnant women and individuals with thyroid problems should consult a physician before using iodine in this situation.

STABILIZED OXYGEN
One final chemical process which might be considered is called "Stabilized Oxygen". A wide variety of manufacturers are producing oxygen-enriched "concentrates" which, when added to water are intended to increase oxygen levels in the body but also act as a mechanism for killing bacteria. some of the products on the market include Aerox, Genesis 1000, Dynamo 2, Aerobic 07, Aquagen and others.

Some reports indicate that these products are quite effective in treating water, without the possible side effects of iodine or chlorine/clorox. That issue is one which is still evolving. My viewpoints on these types of products are mixed and I am not making a recommendation for or against any of the above manufacturers. But, I feel that the verdict on oxygen-enriched concentrates is yet to be rendered for situations as might be encountered in a full scale water emergency.

What IS known is that excessive amounts of oxygen may dramatically reduce expected body cell lifetimes as well as damage DNA. If you use and feel confident with these product, we encourage you to proceed as you see fit.

Our personal view is that when the rubber meets the road---real hard---one should rely on tried and tested methodologies which have proven that they can keep individuals alive and well during the most horrendous water conditions. Oxygen-enriched concentrates may have some intrinsic advantages for day

If you are exposed to pathogenic micro-organisms, you may be one of the lucky few who experiences few, mild, or no symptoms. For the rest of us, after drinking contaminated drinking water, there will be an incubation period of between a few hours(e.g. Salmonella) and a couple of months(e.g. Hepatitis A or C), during which no symptoms will be evident.

During this time, the pathogen is invading your system and multiplying. When concentrations of the pathogen reach a certain threshold, you enter the "manifestation" period during which you begin to feel symptoms.

That is the tidy medical description. Reality is not so tidy: infection by waterborne pathogens often leaves you looking like a dog's dinner and feeling like you have been hit by a truck.

Fever, cramps, fatigue, diarrhea, nausea, dehydration, and general malaise can either sneak up on you slowly, or slam you all at once. During the manifestation period, being more than 10 seconds away from the nearest bathroom is often a bad idea. (Functional bathrooms may be in short supply during water or utility emergencies). It's easy to see that the best idea is not to take risks where you might be exposed to bad drinking or cooking water.

Some people bounce right back, some are hit so hard they're bed-ridden or even hospitalized, and a very few can't shake the disease at all.

Maintaining an adequate and pure supply of drinking and cooking water will be critically important during any emergency.

Keys words:

Protozoan parasites: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protozoa

Toxic bacteria: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_shock_syndrome

Harmful viruses: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_viruses

and poisonous chemicals.

Giardia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giardia

Cryptosporidium: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptosporidium

Rotavirus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotavirus

Hepatitis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatitis

Disease-causing pathogens: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathogen

Waterborne viruses: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterborne_diseases

Campylobacter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campylobacter

 

[loreta]

you are talking about civil war situation where the cash flow of foreign currencies was abundant, we are talking about complete collapse of monetary system, apple and oranges really ;)

Hi, my question is: if we are unable to have gold? I can not buy gold. So, I try to prepare myself with a room with plenty of food and water, and supplies in case of a breakout. So, my situation as I can see is imbalanced because in case the monetary system collapse, I will be without ressources. What can I do?

Thanks for everything in this Forum. I love you so much for the magnificent work you are doing.

Loreta

Mod's note: Edited to fix the quotation boxes

 

[Laura]

You are talking about civil war situation where the cash flow of foreign currencies was abundant, we are talking about complete collapse of monetary system, apple and oranges really ;)

Hi, my question is: if we are unable to have gold? I can not buy gold. So, I try to prepare myself with a room with plenty of food and water, and supplies in case of a breakout. So, my situation as I can see is imbalanced because in case the monetary system collapse, I will be without ressources. What can I do?

Thanks for everything in this Forum. I love you so much for the magnificent work you are doing.

Loreta

Having tradeable stuff or skills is often as good as gold. Most important of all is to have a good network - good relations with people around you.

 

[Lucius]

you are talking about civil war situation where the cash flow of foreign currencies was abundant, we are talking about complete collapse of monetary system, apple and oranges really ;)

Hi, my question is: if we are unable to have gold? I can not buy gold. So, I try to prepare myself with a room with plenty of food and water, and supplies in case of a breakout. So, my situation as I can see is imbalanced because in case the monetary system collapse, I will be without ressources. What can I do?

Thanks for everything in this Forum. I love you so much for the magnificent work you are doing.

Loreta

Having tradeable stuff or skills is often as good as gold. Most important of all is to have a good network - good relations with people around you.

"Good relations" it is hard when people are not

when men it are not sensible, np do not it lies up food, in my situation only good exit this my harmonious family... and a few close familiar which they after it angle see what is goes on C what is up

there now I do not it represent me situation somehow when someone will ask me about food ... I to see one another starving person how will oneself with her to does not it divide ?

Mod's note: Edited to fix the quotation boxes

 

[theos]

What type of gold coin would be good to buy? And from where? Would the US Mint be okay?

I saw this today.

_http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=16063&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=27238

Any advice?

 

[Sinapi]

FWIW, when my grandfather was stuck retreating in WWII, he got work as a farmhand in Hungary. When he and his friends left (I think they were about to be deported), he got a sack of hard-boiled eggs in hay for his troubles. His one of his friends was about to spend his life savings in Hungarian currency for three train tickets, but then my grandfather pulled out an egg. The porter rushed them in, and his friend got to keep his money! (For those who don't know, Hungary was experiencing the worst hyperinflation in history at the time.)

Since no lard or tallow is allowed in my house, I'll probably try rendering bacon grease as my survival rations. Potted meat (meat at the bottom, thin layer of animal fat at the top) in cans might be an option. And I'm not talking about Spam, here!

Thanks for the information, here. :)

 

[herondancer]

Besides food (most important) you might want to think about things like soap, toilet paper, and bandaids . I had an acquaintance who toured the Soviet Union in an ice show in the '70's. He stuffed one suitcase full of bath tissue, and was able to trade for just about anything he wanted.