Pro-China bias?

[Siberia]

Thanks for the analysis, 13 Twirling Triskeles. It makes sense. Modern China isn't war-like. Higher concentrations of psychopathy seem to be more prevalent in the white race, viz. European colonization of nearly the whole planet, and current imperial stewardship under the American banner.

Yup. It's quite mind boggling when you consider how much land has been colonized by the Anglo-Euro-Zio gang in the last 5 centuries or so. And how many hundreds of millions killed, maimed, and impoverished - the true signs of the psychopaths running the world.

Indeed. I've just read today's interview of Bashar al Assad to Expressen, a Swedish newspaper, where he was asked about the ISIS threat for Europe and Sweden in particular. And he pointed out that it's actually the Scandinavians who are the most dangerous ISIS leaders who come from Europe to terrorize Syria. So it's not about ISIS threat for Europe, on the contrary, it's about Western threat for the Middle Eastern countries like Syria, Yemen et al. And Assad openly stated that it's the West behind all this terrorism - a must read interview, imo. If it was a purely internal issue, he said, it would be quickly resolved long time ago.

Neither China, nor Russia are supporting or training or financing these terrorists. And it makes a huge difference. Over 60 children were killed in West-supported air strikes on Yemen during the first few days of their attack only. Again: sixty children. It's a fact acknowledged by the UNICEF. These people are bombing foreign country's civilians and then accuse Russia of sending some ghost tanks to Ukraine which nobody has ever seen?

Although not perfect states, how can China and Russia be even comapared to these real aggressors?

 

[Anthony]

Thanks for the analysis, 13 Twirling Triskeles. It makes sense. Modern China isn't war-like. Higher concentrations of psychopathy seem to be more prevalent in the white race, viz. European colonization of nearly the whole planet, and current imperial stewardship under the American banner.

Yup. It's quite mind boggling when you consider how much land has been colonized by the Anglo-Euro-Zio gang in the last 5 centuries or so. And how many hundreds of millions killed, maimed, and impoverished - the true signs of the psychopaths running the world.

Indeed. I've just read today's interview of Bashar al Assad to Expressen, a Swedish newspaper, where he was asked about the ISIS threat for Europe and Sweden in particular. And he pointed out that it's actually the Scandinavians who are the most dangerous ISIS leaders who come from Europe to terrorize Syria. So it's not about ISIS threat for Europe, on the contrary, it's about Western threat for the Middle Eastern countries like Syria, Yemen et al. And Assad openly stated that it's the West behind all this terrorism - a must read interview, imo. If it was a purely internal issue, he said, it would be quickly resolved long time ago.

Neither China, nor Russia are supporting or training or financing these terrorists. And it makes a huge difference. Over 60 children were killed in West-supported air strikes on Yemen during the first few days of their attack only. Again: sixty children. It's a fact acknowledged by the UNICEF. These people are bombing foreign country's civilians and then accuse Russia of sending some ghost tanks to Ukraine which nobody has ever seen?

Although not perfect states, how can China and Russia be even comapared to these real aggressors?

Indeed, you have to have some serious blind spots to think that these terrorists have somehow managed to
arm themselves to the teeth for 4+ years and get a steady supply of fighters, cash and Toyota pickups without outside backing.

 

[Joe]

Indeed. I've just read today's interview of Bashar al Assad to Expressen, a Swedish newspaper, where he was asked about the ISIS threat for Europe and Sweden in particular. And he pointed out that it's actually the Scandinavians who are the most dangerous ISIS leaders who come from Europe to terrorize Syria. So it's not about ISIS threat for Europe, on the contrary, it's about Western threat for the Middle Eastern countries like Syria, Yemen et al.

Indeed, it's like the 12th century "crusades" version 2.0. Instead of sending white Europeans to the Middle East to conquer the "infidels", the white Europeans have decided to set the 'infidels' against each other by creating a phony infidel army to do the West's conquering for it.

 

[Voyageur]

Indeed. I've just read today's interview of Bashar al Assad to Expressen, a Swedish newspaper, where he was asked about the ISIS threat for Europe and Sweden in particular.

Was this in English; is there a link for this? I checked on SoTT, yet may have missed it.

Thanks, Siberia.

 

[Siberia]

Indeed. I've just read today's interview of Bashar al Assad to Expressen, a Swedish newspaper, where he was asked about the ISIS threat for Europe and Sweden in particular.

Was this in English; is there a link for this? I checked on SoTT, yet may have missed it.

Thanks, Siberia.

I read it here in English: _http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/mote-med-al-assad/en/. It's a rather long but very interesting interview, hope you also enjoy it.

 

[Voyageur]

I read it here in English: _http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/mote-med-al-assad/en/. It's a rather long but very interesting interview, hope you also enjoy it.

Thanks, always interesting to hear his words:

It’s more dangerous this time because we don’t have international law, and you don’t have the effective international organization that would protect a country from another country that uses the terrorists as a proxy to destroy another country. That’s what’s happening in Syria

[...]

Actually, everything that happened in Europe, and I mean terrorist attacks, we warned from at the very beginning of the crisis, and I said Syria is a fault line, when you mess with this fault line you will have the echoes and repercussions in different areas, not only in our area, even in Europe. At that time, they said the Syrian president is threatening. Actually, I wasn’t threatening; I was describing what’s going to happen. It doesn’t take a genius because that’s the context of events that happened many times in our region, and we have experience with those kinds of terrorists for more than 50 years now. They didn’t listen, so what happened was warned of before, and what we saw in France, in Charlie Hebdo, the suicide attempts in Copenhagen, in London, in Spain, ten years ago, this is only the tip of the iceberg; terrorism is a huge mountain. It’s not isolated events. When you have those isolated events, you have to know that you have a big mountain under the sea that you don’t see. So, yes, I expect, as long as you have this mountain, and as long as many European officials are still adulating countries like Saudi Arabia and Qatar just for their money and selling their values and allowing the Wahhabi dark ideology to infiltrate and be instilled in some communities in Europe, we have to expect more attacks in that regard.’

 

[kalibex]

In an article from April 18th, entitled: 'The wedding photos that captivated China', the BBC says:

"China's relationship with its Tibetan minority has at times been troubled, so here's a moment worth noting: a Tibetan couple's wedding photos, showing scenes of both modern and traditional living, captivated millions of Chinese social media users."

Somewhat Ironic (or perhaps not?) is what's on the tee shirts the couple are wearing in the very last photo...

_http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-32353687_

 

[hlat]

Grant it, I'm certain there have been terrible things done to the Chinese people via psychopathic leadership in the present as well as the past…as is the case all over the world.

I agree. This was my basic message from the beginning.

As far as the Chinese government elite goes, they are a ruthlessly murderous bunch, but I'm not seeing a pro-China bias in the article.

The Communist Chinese regime has been a brutal psychopathic one, so it is quite surprising to me to see an argument here that their propaganda is substantially accurate. It may be better to say the US regime is super-psychopathic and the Chinese regime is regular-psychopathic. The Chinese government elite are lying liars and I believe it is a mistake to suggest that their propaganda approaches objective reality. The shameful history under the rule of Mao is a prime example of psychopaths run amok.

I've established as fact, objective reality, that the current Chinese government enforces an official policy of forced abortions. They do this because the current Chinese government is a psychopathic one.

It is psychopathic to ignore the establish fact and continue to argue that the current Chinese government is not psychopathic.
[quote author=9-11 The Ultimate Truth, page 385]
Here’s another example. During a discussion on CD[at]maelstrom.stjohns.edu earlier this year, the statement was made: “If enough people believe something to be true, then what they believe is what reality is.”

A question was then asked: “There was a time when everyone, as far as we know, believed the sun revolved around the earth. Are you saying at that time the sun did, in fact, revolve around the earth - and it was only in obedience to a change in what people believed that the earth came to revolve around the sun?”

The question was ignored.

You might think their refusals to answer constitute an admission - an admission what they are saying is totally outlandish and indefensible. Experience has shown you would be wrong. Experience has shown they go right on making the same statements, even after evidence is produced to the contrary.

You see how different these creatures are? You see how far off their thinking and behavior are from human thinking and behavior?

Nothing of what we call reality is real to them.

I repeat.

Nothing of what we call reality is real to them.
[/quote]

In the face of psychopathic governments like the Chinese, we must identify them as psychopathic and not pretend otherwise.
[quote author=9-11 The Ultimate Truth, page 354]
Thus, in order to reduce psychopathic behavior in society and in government, a society must establish and enforce a reputation for high rates of detection of deception and identification of liars, and a willingness to retaliate. In other words, it must establish a successful strategy of deterrence.

Since the psychopath is particularly unable to make decisions based on future consequences, only able to focus attention on immediate gratification - short-term goals - it is possible that such individuals can be dealt with by establishing a history of dealing out swift social retaliation. That is, identifying and punishing liars and cheaters must be immediate and flawlessly consistent, thus predictable in its occurrence.

And here we come to the issue concerning real-world human social interactions on a large scale: reducing psychopathy in our leaders depends upon expanding society’s collective memory of individual players’ past behavior. Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it.
[/quote]

 

[Bobo08]

Hlat, Perceval has already addressed your points in the post below. Maybe you should re-read it?

Supporting one thug (China) to take down the top dog (US/West) will just lead to the thug becoming the new top dog, and then the cycle repeating: supporting yet another thug to take down the new top dog.

No one is saying that China is going to "take down" anyone. There is little evidence that that is going to happen in the absence of ALL "going down". China, like Russia, is useful to those who seek to expose the main aggressor on the this planet today - the anglo-American Empire - because Russian and Chinese interests run counter to the interests of the anglo-Americans and therefore Russia and China are trying to expose the truth of the nature of the anglo-American empire builders. In that respect our interests converge with those of Russia and China, so in that respect, fighting that fight, we are not going to focus on Russian or Chinese abuses because it would, in effect, be aiding our enemy.

Despite what you claim, you don't really understand the big picture, nor what we are trying to do OR the CONTEXT in which we are trying to do it. You would have us push a "higher reality" "STS Vs STO" message because that is the ultimate truth, but in doing so you totally ignore the level of understanding of most people of this world, even those who are relatively intelligent and well-informed.

Such people are what is being "fought" over here - the souls of all humanity are in play - and if we are going to fight for them, we HAVE to understand their level of understanding and tailor our message TO THAT LEVEL. You seem to lack the understanding to engage in such a fight because, in fact, it seems you are only concerned about what interests you, YOUR level of understanding, what YOU see, and you appear to be demanding that all should be ready and able to accept that level of understanding or...well or what? Reject them? Dismiss them? Ignore them?

You don't seem to have any experience of actually trying to educate people or how difficult it is and how much effort is required to try and tailor the message to the target audience so that they can possibly accept it and internalize it and understand it as the truth and, in so doing, move away from the place of utter lies and confusion and manipulation into which they have been placed by the Western PTB on this planet.

There is also this comment from a Sott article (http://www.sott.net/article/295289) that is relevant:

[quote author=Joe]
Hey Ned, Putin's useful. He tells the truth. We extol praise on the truth. When there's a (final?) opportunity for the masses to wake up and see a little of the truth, every lover of truth should help out in the endeavor, no? Don't get too fixated on the details, all things pass, but you gotta make hay while the sun shines. It's pretty hard to do it in the dark, especially if the grass won't grow because the Sun has been obscured by a dust cloud. Catch my drift?
[/quote]

 

[Renaissance]

I've established as fact, objective reality, that the current Chinese government enforces an official policy of forced abortions. They do this because the current Chinese government is a psychopathic one.

Unless I missed it, I saw a post about one case some years ago. If this was an issue there would be countless cases given the size of the Chinese population and the Western press' agenda to demonize China. Bad things do happen in China, just as they do in Russia and every other place in the world. We live on an STS planet and we're not going to find any places untouched by psychopathy or the undesirable aspects of human behavior. No one is disagreeing with this. However, the West takes advantage of such things by using these types of things to makes peoples lives hell. Even if you don't support that, taking on the hypocritical and misplaced Western portrayal is feeding into it.

I think one of the issues in this thread is if China shows the same level of psychopathic infection as the West. I don't see where the case has been made that it has sunken so low or is at all close to it. There are a number of factors to consider when looking at this: foreign relations, social degradation, police brutality, individuals going nuts, the state of culture and entertainment and so on. I think it's pretty fair to say that nothing compares to what we see going on in the West. The context of authoritarian measures are important here since in China they're instituted as a protective measure against the West whereas in the West they're implemented as invasive and harmful measures (while being portrayed as some kind of 'freedom' of course). A good use of Sott is to see these factors being played out.

As a 'for instance' I was curious about the statistics of police killing citizens in China, and in 2014 there were a total of 12 people killed by cops. Compare that to the 1100 killed by police in the US during the same year.

The Chinese are building new relationships with countries that have previously been pretty much under the thumb of the West in an attept to 'isolate' China. In recent news we see counties like Thailand and Vietnam moving closer to China, and those are good signs. China is also helping Iran and Pakistan forge a renewed partnership by helping fund a once stalled pipeline between the two countries. It's heartening to see countries developing these relationships instead of being pitted against one another so a sole benefactor (the US) can pillage the resources for the elite and who just feed off the chaos. It good in terms of what that could mean for the people, their economies and their natural interests. It's surely not a perfect picture as there are elites benefiting from these things as well, but the dynamic is not the same as it is with the West at the helm.

I think those asking if Sott has a pro-China bias could also make an effort to ask yourselves if you have an anti-China bias. Most of us are indoctrinated with such a view, and if it's never been challenged it's easy for the view to persist, skew thinking, build narratives and so on.

 

[Eboard10]

Hi hlat, I haven't been following this thread lately and I am not very knowledgeable on some of the issues discussed here, but I second what Perceval and Renaissance have said about the need to put the issues in context rather than just looking at them in absolute terms.

I think the latest topic discussed is a case in point.

I've established as fact, objective reality, that the current Chinese government enforces an official policy of forced abortions. They do this because the current Chinese government is a psychopathic one.

The one-child policy and the still ongoing forced abortions, might certainly look like a psychopathic approach and is clearly not an ideal choice, but when putting it in the context of a massively overpopulated country in the era of globalisation, the picture changes. Currently, the government needs to create at least 10 million jobs every year just to sustain the economy and be able to maintain the social welfare system. Failure to do so would lead to a full-blown economic depression and social unrest that could easily turn nasty, due to the psychopathic elements within both the population and the government, and this wouldn't benefit the country at all. Imagine the government having to raise trillions more in debt to create additional jobs for an extra couple hundred million people in order to sustain an even bigger social welfare system? That would ultimately become unsustainable. This scenario would also open up a window for Western powers to create further instability in the country like they have done elsewhere.

China has actually benefited from the one-child policy in many ways and helped reduced the strain on the economy and hence on the well-being of the population. Sometimes, the only way to enforce such a policy is to be strict. While there are definitely cases where the forced abortion has been implemented, the government has become much more flexible, where a parent who is an only child can give birth to a second child by paying a fee that would go into funding projects in infrastructure etc. Like I said before, this is far from being an ideal solution, but it's clearly not a psychopathic one as it is tries to address the wider implications of an overpopulated country.

Just my 2 cents

 

[sitting]

It is psychopathic to ignore the establish fact and continue to argue that the current Chinese government is not psychopathic.

Hi hlat,

That's a bit of a stretch, I think.

I was born in China a year before the Communist revolution succeeded. My family escaped to Hong Kong. I'm well acquainted with the horrors and atrocities perpetrated throughout that period of China's history.

But the China of today (thankfully) is not the China of then. Far far from it. And it's the China of today that really matters. All that other stuff (though never should be forgotten) belongs to history now.

In a very broad sense, China presently, along with Russia, India and Brazil are forces for moderation. In sharp contrast to the Anglo-Zionist agenda. That to me is quite clear. To argue strongly to the contrary is just missing the point, if I may be blunt. FWIW.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Yeah, it's very similar to missing the crux of the matter when it comes to Russia and Putin that we also see so often. In the case of Putin, there are lots of claims that he's part of the oligarchic global cabal and the Russian oligarchs (even some outrageous claims that he's the richest person in the world), etc., without any credible evidence whatsoever. All sorts of insinuations are made about the minutia of day to day public decisions, etc., and that he's no different than any other political leader. I think it's a case of just how ponerized humanity at large has become. They just can't see a non-pathological leader like Putin for what he is.

There's some unrealistic demand for perfection, rather than seeing and accepting the VAST difference between Putin and all the rest, particularly because he leads a very powerful country, unlike someone like Chavez who was also of that quality, but didn't occupy the important geopolitical space on the world stage as Putin / Russia do. The ability of the amount of bringing some balance back in the world is just not comparable to other admirable leaders of our times. It's the same with China; there's an unrealistic demand for perfection and a steadfast denial of the differences on how they form and execute their policies in contrast to the totally corrupt, perverted, and pathological political "West" / Anglo-American-Zionist Empire. The point is to study and SEE the differences and potential for a more balance world Russia and China, along with their alliances are trying to realize....

 

[Niall]

It is psychopathic to ignore the establish fact and continue to argue that the current Chinese government is not psychopathic.

Hi hlat,

That's a bit of a stretch, I think.

I was born in China a year before the Communist revolution succeeded. My family escaped to Hong Kong. I'm well acquainted with the horrors and atrocities perpetrated throughout that period of China's history.

But the China of today (thankfully) is not the China of then. Far far from it. And it's the China of today that really matters. All that other stuff (though never should be forgotten) belongs to history now.

In a very broad sense, China presently, along with Russia, India and Brazil are forces for moderation. In sharp contrast to the Anglo-Zionist agenda. That to me is quite clear. To argue strongly to the contrary is just missing the point, if I may be blunt. FWIW.

What's even more alarming than missing the crux of the matter is insinuating that others are psychopathic for failing to fall in line with his point of view.

sitting, would you say that most emigrés are generally anti-Chinese, or are they ambivalent?

 

[Niall]

Apologies for posting from yet another Western propaganda outlet, but I figure that citing Chinese sources would only confirm 'SOTT's pro-China bias'

Anyway, it's not a bad overview of China under Xi Jinping...

Xi Jinping’s Chinese Dream

NYT - By ROBERT LAWRENCE KUHNJUNE 4, 2013

What to make of Xi Jinping, China’s new senior leader, who holds his first summit meeting this week with President Barack Obama?

The hope is that Xi is a reformer who will guide China through domestic transformation and to responsible statecraft. The fear is that Xi is a nationalist, who has set China on an aggressive course of bullying its neighbors and confronting the United States.

The fear seems not unfounded. China has intensified its territorial claims, from island disputes with Japan to vast areas of the South China Sea.

Xi frequently inspects People’s Liberation Army forces, especially naval fleets, exhorting China’s military to “get ready to fight and to win wars” and “to win regional warfare under I.T.-oriented conditions.”

Xi holds China’s top three positions: head of the ruling Communist Party of China, head of state, and, as chairman of the Central Military Commission, head of the military. He will likely lead China for a decade.

Just after becoming party chief in late 2012, Xi announced what would become the hallmark of his administration. “The Chinese Dream,” he said, is “the great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation.”

Xi’s Chinese Dream is described as achieving the “Two 100s”: the material goal of China becoming a “moderately well-off society” by about 2020, the 100th anniversary of the Chinese Communist Party, and the modernization goal of China becoming a fully developed nation by about 2049, the 100th anniversary of the People’s Republic.

The Chinese Dream has four parts: Strong China (economically, politically, diplomatically, scientifically, militarily); Civilized China (equity and fairness, rich culture, high morals); Harmonious China (amity among social classes); Beautiful China (healthy environment, low pollution).

“A moderately well-off society” is where all citizens, rural and urban, enjoy high standards of living. This includes doubling the 2010 G.D.P. per capita (approaching $10,000 per person) by about 2020 and completing urbanization (roughly one billion people, 70 percent of China’s population) by about 2030.

“Modernization” means China regaining its position as a world leader in science and technology as well as in economics and business; the resurgence of Chinese civilization, culture and military might; and China participating actively in all areas of human endeavor.

If Xi’s nationalism seems at odds with these grand goals, it is not. Here are six reasons why:

• Need to consolidate power. Xi was not selected by Deng Xiaoping, the architect of reform, as were his predecessors (Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao), and he was not elected by the people. Conventional wisdom had it that Xi would be a weak leader. In order to realize his Chinese Dream, Xi needs to assert strength and assure control. So far, he has exceeded expectations.

• Need to enable reform. Xi and Premier Li Keqiang are determined to enact far-reaching economic reforms, the most extensive in 15 years, but there is stiff resistance from those whose dominance would be diminished and benefits cut (such as state-owned enterprises with ties to party power).

This resistance can no longer be couched credibly in terms of ideology, so it appeals to nationalistic aspirations by accusing reformers of “worshipping Western ways,” “glorifying Western models” or “caving in to Western pressures.” Xi’s proactive nationalism is a strategy of “offense is the best defense” — an inoculation, as it were, against the political virus of being labeled “soft” or “pro-Western.”

Reformers in China are generally associated with pro-American attitudes and thus subject to fierce public criticism. By establishing himself as a nationalist operating independently of the United States (his first foreign trip was to Russia), Xi is able to secure economic reforms by distinguishing them from serving Western/American interests.

• Need to legitimze one-party rule. To perpetuate its rule (which China’s top leaders truly believe is essential for the well-being of the country), the Chinese Communist Party has constructed a grand narrative that is founded on three critical claims: Only the Communist Party can continue to improve citizen’s standard of living (and ameliorate severe social and economic disparities); only the party can maintain a stable, unified country and construct a happy, harmonious society; and only the party can effect the “rejuvenation of the Chinese nation,” which stresses a firm command of “core interests” (i.e., sovereignty and territoriality) and increasing global respect.

• Maintain stability through unity. China faces numerous internal tensions, especially a class-divided populace (rich-poor, urban-rural, coastal-inland) that have erupted within one generation. Moreover, an increasingly complex society can fracture along multiple fault lines. Pollution, corruption, healthcare, housing, migrant workers, workers’ wages, social cynicism, changing values, among other raging issues, threaten to fragment society — and all are exacerbated by an energetic social media. Only nationalism, which resonates intrinsically and passionately across Chinese society, can provide sufficiently strong social glue.

• Differentiate from predecessors. Top Chinese leaders must combine historical continuity with their own distinguishing theories and practices. How shall Xi fare?

Economic growth rates must decline, and a host of domestic tensions (or crises) are coming his way, such as public anger at corruption and resistance to pollution. Hence another rationale for nationalism.

In the past, nationalistic surges were triggered largely by external events (such as NATO's accidental bombing of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade in 1999) [. Xi is putting nationalism at the core of his leadership — his nationalism is proactive, riding the high road of patriotism and pride.

• Personal beliefs. Xi has deep-seated patriotic convictions, the product of family, life and career. His father, Xi Zhongxun, was a founder of the new China and a leading reformer under Deng Xiaoping. In 2006, when Xi Jinping was party secretary of Zhejiang Province, he told me about Chinese pride and patriotism as motivating China’s historic resurgence — words remarkably similar to his recent pronouncements.

So is Xi a reformer? A nationalist? The answer is that he is both, because only by being a nationalist can he be a reformer. American policy makers must understand Xi’s nationalism so that when the reigning superpower meets the rising superpower, both can benefit.

'Nationalist' in this context means 'won't do what we say'. As we've seen from US overreaction to Russia asserting its sovereignty, there can be no 'accommodation'; you're either 'with us' or you're 'with the terrorists'.