Psychedelics being pushed today from multiple vectors.

iamthatis

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
I don't see the establishment fearing it.

I heard people saying similar things about the popular miracle drug, Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) as well. (While I recall reading a story at the time about it being manufactured and smuggled in diplomatic bags from Israel in one case, I can't recall if there were any arrests). -But because it was a youth rave drug which people liked, users dubbed it with a bogus seal of anti-establishment legitimacy, from what I could tell, based on nothing more than they felt naughty while using it, aware that their parents probably were scared for their safety and would disapprove if they knew. I don't remember any culture of dodging raids and police crackdowns, however.

The establishment reaction was similar with LSD; now THERE's a drug with a long and uncontested historical record of being promoted by the government on the sly. The CIA created and distributed hundreds of thousands of doses to the American populace, under the guise of it being 'counter-culture', a way to fight The Man. -While being distributed by The Man himself, who kept long and detailed notes on the results. (Later destroyed when lawsuits started being filed, after a key chemical weapons scientist 'fell' from a hotel window.)

And who is the establishment today? It's an open secret that Silicone Valley is run on micro-dosing like it's no big deal. I don't hear of any arrests, however, or that psilocybin is particularly feared. The government run national radio station in Canada is actually giving the stuff excellent spin.

Interesting to hear the CBC is towing this line now, too. Soon, gender dysphoric kids will be given a BLM handbook and a sheet of acid by their state-sponsored 'therapist'.

And for a brief history of the PTB's creation of the psychedelics movement, here's a pretty good one:

 

iamthatis

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Ketamine is a anesthetic for surgery, but it can provide at the right dose an experience minus the physical body. It can be a tool for those stuck in the physical and cannot separate the consciousness aspect within the ID/Ego duality

LSD I find to be far less spiritual in nature. Some may have very creative and abstract thoughts to "show another side" of Oneself

Mushrooms are very spiritual, but to be used with respect and not as "a drug" It expands your perception to 10,000' view and allows some crucial work to be done which the Egoic Mind often impedes.

The Serotonin Control System basically severely limits brain cross connections and filters out a ton of incoming data packets from the senses. Psilocybin works on the same receptor and gets everything glowing together with no filter.

Ayahuasca, like many others, are for clearing old habits or ski hill runs. Grooves in the mind that energy will follow more often than not. Psychedelics are like grooming the runs. There are risks in where you go for that treatment, as the environment, ones current mental, emotional state influence massively what the experience is.

[the last two paragraphs are why there has been astonishing results using these plants/fungi in the treatment of PTSD]

Some can bring states of existence normally only available to decades of spiritual practice, meditation and energy work. That said, shortcuts are fine to understand what the big picture is and what one can attain ... but are not a replacement for such experiences

The inherent ability to break control systems, and ultimately brainwashing, is the biggest enemy the State could ever have.

The Oneness is the next biggest threat, as most vile control systems flourish by pitting the serfs against each other

The Oneness and eternal nature of our being inside/outside of this mortal vehicle is why Psilocybin has shown immense benefits for those in Palliative Care. It's also why certain control systems that use death would oppose such a gift.

-my 3¢

Looks like you're advocating for playing with forces about which you know very little.

Before you continue to do so, I'd highly suggest you read (1) the book 'Masquerade of Angels', (2) Laura's Secret History series, with particular focus on the section about spiritual drugs and neurochemicals, and (3) this thread discussing Graham Hancock, ayahuasca and 4D STS interference.
 

bekac

The Force is Strong With This One
One of the typical ways aliens manipulate people during abduction scenarios is to fill them with overwhelming feelings of being loved. This has been reported many times. -Even while the actual events taking place during the abduction are objectively horrific.

Human emotions can evidently be turned on or off according to the whims of predators.

The C's have discussed the difference between 'feelings' and 'instinct'.

For some reason you misunderstood what was written. There was no other entity that I could perceive. Love was not towards me, instead was funnelled through me. There was clear understanding of permanent presence of love I am to often not aware of. Same goes for intelligence. Mushrooms kept the gate to awareness open, or unveiled what is always around but somehow hides.
 

Woodsman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
For some reason you misunderstood what was written. There was no other entity that I could perceive. Love was not towards me, instead was funnelled through me. There was clear understanding of permanent presence of love I am to often not aware of. Same goes for intelligence. Mushrooms kept the gate to awareness open, or unveiled what is always around but somehow hides.
I'm pretty sure I understood what you described. Though, I can see why you might think otherwise, so I'll clarify:

I was just pointing out that strong feelings of 'love' should not necessarily be taken at face value, nor should they stand as evidence of benevolence. The C's recommend being distrustful of strong emotions. It's a sign that one is being manipulated.

I am not saying that there isn't mighty benevolence to be found in the universe. "Knowledge is Love is Light". -But we have also been advised that humans don't know what love is, that what we call love, isn't. I find that statement intriguing.
 

iamthatis

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
For some reason you misunderstood what was written. There was no other entity that I could perceive. Love was not towards me, instead was funnelled through me. There was clear understanding of permanent presence of love I am to often not aware of. Same goes for intelligence. Mushrooms kept the gate to awareness open, or unveiled what is always around but somehow hides.

Have you read The Wave?

To use your term, 'entities' function precisely by not being perceived. That's how they do what they do. And they are also known to turn on the bliss chemicals and help us feel very 'special' - especially when they are, in reality, feeding on us or experimenting on us or torturing us.

Only through seeking as much Knowledge as you can will you begin to See the unseen. Until then, we're all dupes in la-la land. And I say this as a recovering psychedelic cult escapee.

The turning point comes when you realize that you can't trust your memories, your experiences, your thoughts, or your emotions.

I've posted a number of links above that you may find worth reading. If you haven't read The Wave, I think that would be the best place to start.
 

United Gnosis

Jedi Master
I don't know... That kind of reminds me of this passage from Gurdjieff:




If one had to do such a trip, being wary of entities etc., its probably better to have a more humble attitude and not go in there wrapped in a hundred layers of ego about being so 'adept', spiritually evolved, immune from attachments etc. A real nasty entity would surely eat you alive no matter who you are, if it's their realm and territory.
If Ayahuasca is good at one thing, it is to teach you that the void would be promptly willing to devour you if you stepped into their territory. I mean, I had only a single ayahuasca experience, and that was already enough to tell.

I'm not talking out of ego attachment/fear either, I went through a dozen abrupt full ego dismantlings working with Salvia much earlier - and Salvia hits you like a meteor, rips your astral body right out, if any fear of death is present it can induce intensely scary bad trips, but it's a sudden seamless transition if ego attachment is released. Yet I had never faced anything even close to meeting Aya, even though I suspect she did not show me her 'final form',

Breed a purple octopus with a void tesseract, that is how she appeared to me. Coming from above, she was domineering the astral field, an overwhelming presence. The shaman had instructed us to remain steadfast on our initial committed intent. She asked me so I answered - to seek understanding of the total multidimensional reality. I had no expectation of the chasm I might meet, but she extended a vortexing tentacle of voidness towards my being, asking, "even if you have to come through this to understand?", as her event horizon reached to an inch of my face -

I had no idea she was an STS entity before, but it felt clear to me at that moment. Maybe I just failed a shaman's decapitation dream, failed to go through the shamanic death and revival experience. But her event horizon was so close, I could feel into it without even reaching, and it was nothing like ego death, nothing like any attachments ripping away. It was as if she was covered with a sheath of frothing woe, protecting - nothing, an outreaching nonbeing. I grokked that I would have to surrender everything - even my being itself - to enter that 'space'. I felt there would be no way back, focused on resolve and refusal. She retreated, promising, 'if you ever want to meet me again, I will await your next dose..."

The shaman walked around shortly later, offering a second helping of the brew to those wanting to work deeper. Guess who did not ask for more? :lol:
 
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Nienna

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
It just boggles the mind how so many people think that playing around in other realms is something so very positive. It is very easy to collect attachments and who knows what else, unknown by the one venturing into these other realms, that it is a very bad idea to just trip along in these realms.

No matter how many times I post the following, it seems that there are so many who haven't read it or don't take it seriously so I do so once again:
From The Sufi Path of Knowledge by Chittick, Ibn al ‘Arabi says:

Nowadays most people interested in the spirituality of the East desire the "experience," though they may call what they are after "intimate communion with God." Those familiar with the standards and norms of spiritual experience set down by disciplined paths are usually appalled at the way Westerners seize upon any apparition from the domain outside of normal consciousness as a manifestation of the "spiritual." In fact there are innumerable realms in the unseen world, some of them far more dangerous than the worst jungles of the visible world. No person familiar with the teachings of Sufism would dare lay himself open to such forces...

And, then, there is this that Laura discusses in The Wave I of the experience of a woman who is talking about The Beautiful Lady:

She puts the robe around me and then my mind separates from my body. I can look back and see it lying there. Then we go up through the ceiling, pop out the roof, and fly into space. One night the Lady took me back in time. We were in a foreign country and the people wore old-fashioned clothes. The Lady took on the appearance of a beautiful woman in a blue robe. She performed miracles for them..."

Suddenly Ann's face turned ashen and she asked to be excused. Her scream of pain was heard from the bathroom where she had taken refuge. When Ann came out, she was sniffling and holding her abdomen. The Lady had savagely attacked her for revealing that down through history, creatures like the Lady have taken the form of saints. They then use the gullibility of humankind to misguide and misinform people so that they believe they are seeing miracles performed. Ann begged the newsman to delete that portion of the interview." (Osborn, 1982)

I think that it is very important to know about the forces that inhabit other dimensions and densities because they are not all wonderful spiritual beings that want to guide and help us. Knowledge protects and ignorance endangers could not be more applicable than in cases like these.
I can't help but wonder, do these hallucinogens actually connect one to positive spiritual beings and realms, or does it just seem that way to those who want to believe that that is the case? Also, what a wonderful way for those who are truly in control to keep their populace under their control and not causing problems for them.
 

100c

Padawan Learner
Until reading this thread, I didn't know psychedelics were being promoted. I try to stay away from culture. Most people my age have been conditioned to distrust psychedelics, myself included. After experiencing it, I see the situation differently. It's funny also. We're supposed to distrust natural substances and trust man-made ones, but you can use both types unwisely.

A handful of experiences with psychedelics have given me a deeper appreciation for this world. Without them, I wouldn't have had a glimpse at the impossibly complicated underpinnings of consciousness. I've also have never had more enjoyable experiences listening to music!
 

bekac

The Force is Strong With This One
Have you read The Wave?

To use your term, 'entities' function precisely by not being perceived. That's how they do what they do. And they are also known to turn on the bliss chemicals and help us feel very 'special' - especially when they are, in reality, feeding on us or experimenting on us or torturing us.

Only through seeking as much Knowledge as you can will you begin to See the unseen. Until then, we're all dupes in la-la land. And I say this as a recovering psychedelic cult escapee.

The turning point comes when you realize that you can't trust your memories, your experiences, your thoughts, or your emotions.

I've posted a number of links above that you may find worth reading. If you haven't read The Wave, I think that would be the best place to start.
Wondering how do you accumulate knowledge without memories, experiences, thoughts and emotions. Intuition need experiencer etc. as well. The experiences are generally impossible to convey to others so we have luck of trust and understanding globally. My very similar experiences without shrooms would not make a difference for those who already know it all.
 

iamthatis

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Wondering how do you accumulate knowledge without memories, experiences, thoughts and emotions. Intuition need experiencer etc. as well. The experiences are generally impossible to convey to others so we have luck of trust and understanding globally. My very similar experiences without shrooms would not make a difference for those who already know it all.

You grow in Knowledge by gathering as much information as you can.

When you gather new information - cross-referencing across cultures, disciplines, philosophies, historical epochs, and geographies - then you are building an objective basis upon which you can analyze your previous subjective experiences, memories, thoughts, and emotions.

Information is everywhere. A green leaf conveys information. But that turns into Knowledge when we learn why the leaf is green - due to the chlorophyll in the cells, which allows the tree to photosynthesize, or 'make a feast out of sunlight'. If I were to be so bold as to try to define Knowledge, I'd say it is the recognition of the logic of the patterns of meaning inherent in what we perceive.

Only by doing the hard Work does anyone have 'a snowball's chance in Hell' of breaking through the hypnosis of this density. And it's precisely this induced hypnosis that creates the inability to truly share experiences with others, resulting in the 'lack of understanding and trust globally' that you rightly point to. This state is referred to as 'The Confusion of the Tongues'. This is what the Evil masters of this world want - keep the people divided, and they are easier to harvest. But growing in Knowledge gives us the opportunity to move from our customary dumbstruck confusion of herd animals and into the clarity of an actual, living, breathing human being.

“The humanity to which we belong, namely, the whole of historic and prehistoric humanity known to science and civilization, in reality constitutes only the outer circle of humanity, within which there are several other circles… consisting so to speak of several concentric circles.


“The inner circle is called the ‘esoteric’; this circle consists of people who have attained the highest development possible for man, each one of whom possesses individuality in the fullest degree, that is to say, an indivisible ‘I,’ all forms of consciousness possible for man, full control over these states of consciousness, the whole of knowledge possible for man, and a free and independent will. They cannot perform actions opposed to their understanding or have an understanding which is not expressed by actions. At the same time there can be no discords among them, no differences of understanding. Therefore their activity is entirely coordinated and leads to one common aim without any kind of compulsion because it is based upon a common and identical understanding.


“The next circle is called the ‘mesoteric,’ that is to say, the middle. People who belong to this circle possess all the qualities possessed by the members of the esoteric circle with the sole difference that their knowledge is of a more theoretical character. This refers, of course, to knowledge of a cosmic character. They know and understand many things which have not yet found expression in their actions. They know more than they do. But their understanding is precisely as exact as, and therefore precisely identical with, the understanding of the people of the esoteric circle. Between them there can be no discord, there can be no misunderstanding. One understands in the way they all understand, and all understand in the way one understands. But as was said before, this understanding compared with the understanding of the esoteric circle is somewhat more theoretical.

“The third circle is called the ‘exoteric,’ that is, the outer, because it is the outer circle of the inner part of humanity. The people who belong to this circle possess much of that which belongs to people of the esoteric and mesoteric circles but their cosmic knowledge is of a more philosophical character, that is to say, it is more abstract than the knowledge of the mesoteric circle. A member of the mesoteric circle calculates, a member of the exoteric circle contemplates. Their understanding may not be expressed in actions. But there cannot be differences in understanding between them. What one understands all the others understand.”

“In literature which acknowledges the existence of esotericism humanity is usually divided into two circles only and the ‘exoteric circle’ as opposed to the ‘esoteric,’ is called ordinary life. In reality, as we see, the ‘exoteric circle’ is something very far from us and very high. For ordinary man this is already ‘esotericism.’

“The outer circle is the circle of mechanical humanity to which we belong and which alone we know. The first sign of this circle is that among people who belong to it there is not and there cannot be a common understanding. Everybody understands in his own way and all differently. This circle is sometimes called the circle of the ‘confusion of tongues,’ where no one understands another and takes no trouble to be understood. In this circle mutual understanding between people is impossible excepting in rare exceptional moments or in matters having no great significance, and which are confined to the limits of the given being. If people belonging to this circle become conscious of this general lack of understanding and acquire a desire to understand and to be understood, then it means they have an unconscious tendency towards the inner circle because mutual understanding begins only in the exoteric circle and is possible only there. But the consciousness of the lack of understanding usually comes to people in an altogether different form.

“So that the possibility for people to understand depends on the possibility of penetrating into the exoteric circle where understanding begins." - Ouspensky, 1949

For me, it turned out that just about everything I used to believe was 'good, beautiful and true' was all a big fat lie. Including about the 'spirit realms' and psychedelics. In the quest for Knowledge, there's a required openness to being wrong - about the world, and most of all, about myself. Not everybody will choose to do that, though. It requires humility and commitment and the willingness to pick up my Cross and bear it for my whole life on my travels through this Fallen world - all on behalf of a higher Aim. Given the nature of the task, I can see why many prefer to keep on feeling 'special' by getting high.
 

Candice

Jedi
I have found that lecturing people not to play in the mud doesn’t really keep anyone from playing in the mud.

I know this from myself trying to warn others but I also know that I was warned by my father and I too in the end didn’t listen.

My father experimented a lot as a teenager, in order to keep me going out to experiment too he shared a lot of his experiences with me. He shared how so many of his friends had either died or ended up in psychological institutions. He shared his negative experiences. He never lectured me from some higher moral soapbox, he knew that wouldn’t work. Luckily I listened and never experimented as a teenager.

But even with all his stories and advice I later on in my late twenties decided to play in the mud. Only after that did everything he tried to tell me have an “aha moment”. I had a breakdown of sorts, a period of disintegration. At the time I called it a ‘dark night of the soul’.

I had to experience playing in the mud myself and learn the hard way. Do we not learn through suffering?

Very hard lessons but without them I may not be on my current path. Those lessons led to me asking the universe for help, which led me to reading Laura’s books and ultimately this forum and hopefully on my path of redemption.

The thing is I’ve tried warning people from doing Ayahuasca ceremonies by telling them my experiences. Unfortunately no matter what I say it falls on deaf ears and they just get more excited to try it. It’s nuts. They’ve been programmed that because it’s a plant concoction and if administered by a Shaman that no harm can befall them. They will NOT listen to anyone who says anything against this.

I realized it doesn’t matter, there is nothing anyone can say to deter someone who is determined to play in the mud.

However can we try to talk about this subject in an objective manner? And leave the sanctimonious preacher tone at the door. It will not convert anyone. It just keeps anyone like myself from even entering the conversation. It reminds me of those morally superior individuals who get triggered by the sex scenes in the romance novels.

Back to the original topic. I think the reason Intellectual types are being drawn to psychedelics is they have hit a wall where it comes to finding answers through the normal ‘scientific’ means. So one can either choose to find these answers through doing the Work, meditation, gathering knowledge or you can choose the shortcut. The thing is that psychedelics don’t provide answers, their only benefit if one is aware is they have the capability of performing a ‘reset’. But what are the trade offs for this reset? The only time that maybe it’s worth it is if you’re a serious drug addict. However the reset isn’t permanent. You still need to use your free will to choose to remain on your new path. Lots of hard work.

I know people who have done Ayahuasca over 50 times. With very few observable negative or positive changes. I’ve only met one other person who experienced what I experienced but she still advocates for it. I only know one person who appears to have changed their lives around for the good. I don’t know anyone who has come out of it with real tangible knowledge, just subjective word salad nonsense. They just keep chasing the high.

I’m not sure if I added anything of value to this conversation. I debated even entering the fray. I realized I once again got triggered by one of my programs that ‘I must be innately bad for having played in the mud in the past’. Which is just not true. We all are playing in the mud to some extent otherwise we’d all be in 4D already. Some people choose to learn lessons the hard way. Some appear to enter their 3D lives as fully formed Saints. Kudos to you. Doesn’t matter which you are. You're here learning lessons, may that be as swamp creature or Saint.

The path to redemption, towards knowledge, light, unconditional love is always there. Yes it’s there even for those who have been playing in the mud. It’s a choice. Maybe THE choice.

So the question is how do you identify the true Source of that unconditional love some of us have felt either on psychedelics, through meditation or even spontaneous experiences? Is this feeling of “unconditional love” always from those evil forces that want a free snack? How do we tell the difference between that and from the DCM itself?

From what I’ve gathered is that one always must remain skeptical, that as long as we are in 3D we can never be sure of our subjective experiences. May that be our thoughts, feelings, ‘psychic experiences’, intuition or hallucinogenic visions.

You are most likely still a machine, you aren’t in control of any of these experiences. So why skip the basics straight to ‘shaman level’?

And for those still choosing to play in the mud even though you know better. Why? Why are you so confident that you have full control of your machine? Why choose the shortcut fraught with unknown dangers to your wellbeing? I ask these questions not from a point of judgment, I hold no judgement. But because I’m curious.

I don’t think this renewed fascination by humanity with hallucinogens will be fading anytime soon. So many feel empty and have a need to forget reality or to fill the inner void with pseudo-spiritual experiences. The intellectuals appear to have run out of new avenues to explore. And of course I think the PTB have been dabbling for decades. I wonder will they link AI with tripping to hook in the new era of tranhumaism? Will the new entertainment be communicating with trans-dimensional denizens with a fusion of hallucinogens and VR tech?
 

Woodsman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I have found that lecturing people not to play in the mud doesn’t really keep anyone from playing in the mud.

I know this from myself trying to warn others but I also know that I was warned by my father and I too in the end didn’t listen.

My father experimented a lot as a teenager, in order to keep me going out to experiment too he shared a lot of his experiences with me. He shared how so many of his friends had either died or ended up in psychological institutions. He shared his negative experiences. He never lectured me from some higher moral soapbox, he knew that wouldn’t work. Luckily I listened and never experimented as a teenager.

But even with all his stories and advice I later on in my late twenties decided to play in the mud. Only after that did everything he tried to tell me have an “aha moment”. I had a breakdown of sorts, a period of disintegration. At the time I called it a ‘dark night of the soul’.

I had to experience playing in the mud myself and learn the hard way. Do we not learn through suffering?

Very hard lessons but without them I may not be on my current path. Those lessons led to me asking the universe for help, which led me to reading Laura’s books and ultimately this forum and hopefully on my path of redemption.

The thing is I’ve tried warning people from doing Ayahuasca ceremonies by telling them my experiences. Unfortunately no matter what I say it falls on deaf ears and they just get more excited to try it. It’s nuts. They’ve been programmed that because it’s a plant concoction and if administered by a Shaman that no harm can befall them. They will NOT listen to anyone who says anything against this.

I realized it doesn’t matter, there is nothing anyone can say to deter someone who is determined to play in the mud.

However can we try to talk about this subject in an objective manner? And leave the sanctimonious preacher tone at the door. It will not convert anyone. It just keeps anyone like myself from even entering the conversation. It reminds me of those morally superior individuals who get triggered by the sex scenes in the romance novels.

Back to the original topic. I think the reason Intellectual types are being drawn to psychedelics is they have hit a wall where it comes to finding answers through the normal ‘scientific’ means. So one can either choose to find these answers through doing the Work, meditation, gathering knowledge or you can choose the shortcut. The thing is that psychedelics don’t provide answers, their only benefit if one is aware is they have the capability of performing a ‘reset’. But what are the trade offs for this reset? The only time that maybe it’s worth it is if you’re a serious drug addict. However the reset isn’t permanent. You still need to use your free will to choose to remain on your new path. Lots of hard work.

I know people who have done Ayahuasca over 50 times. With very few observable negative or positive changes. I’ve only met one other person who experienced what I experienced but she still advocates for it. I only know one person who appears to have changed their lives around for the good. I don’t know anyone who has come out of it with real tangible knowledge, just subjective word salad nonsense. They just keep chasing the high.

I’m not sure if I added anything of value to this conversation. I debated even entering the fray. I realized I once again got triggered by one of my programs that ‘I must be innately bad for having played in the mud in the past’. Which is just not true. We all are playing in the mud to some extent otherwise we’d all be in 4D already. Some people choose to learn lessons the hard way. Some appear to enter their 3D lives as fully formed Saints. Kudos to you. Doesn’t matter which you are. You're here learning lessons, may that be as swamp creature or Saint.

The path to redemption, towards knowledge, light, unconditional love is always there. Yes it’s there even for those who have been playing in the mud. It’s a choice. Maybe THE choice.

So the question is how do you identify the true Source of that unconditional love some of us have felt either on psychedelics, through meditation or even spontaneous experiences? Is this feeling of “unconditional love” always from those evil forces that want a free snack? How do we tell the difference between that and from the DCM itself?

From what I’ve gathered is that one always must remain skeptical, that as long as we are in 3D we can never be sure of our subjective experiences. May that be our thoughts, feelings, ‘psychic experiences’, intuition or hallucinogenic visions.

You are most likely still a machine, you aren’t in control of any of these experiences. So why skip the basics straight to ‘shaman level’?

And for those still choosing to play in the mud even though you know better. Why? Why are you so confident that you have full control of your machine? Why choose the shortcut fraught with unknown dangers to your wellbeing? I ask these questions not from a point of judgment, I hold no judgement. But because I’m curious.

I don’t think this renewed fascination by humanity with hallucinogens will be fading anytime soon. So many feel empty and have a need to forget reality or to fill the inner void with pseudo-spiritual experiences. The intellectuals appear to have run out of new avenues to explore. And of course I think the PTB have been dabbling for decades. I wonder will they link AI with tripping to hook in the new era of tranhumaism? Will the new entertainment be communicating with trans-dimensional denizens with a fusion of hallucinogens and VR tech?
That's a very insightful post.

I've found that when you encounter somebody who (it seems likely) incarnated specifically to learn an important lesson, one which others who have perhaps already learned it the hard way, so that their instincts rebel against the mere notion and regard it with horror.., if you make any effective moves to dissuade others from proceeding, will only anger and frustrate them. -To the point where they will make less and less coherent arguments in favor of jumping into the Hard Lesson, until finally they will just flat out knock you down and walk past you into whatever meat grinder they have on their life schedule.

We all have to learn these lessons, after all.

'Shame' is a feeling which is probably useful as a soul coding factor for later revival as instinct. (If that's how it works?) But it needn't be enforced by observers; people are entirely capable of feeling stupid all on their own.

I'd like to note that I don't intend people to feel ashamed of their drug use. I find the whole thing fascinating and figure this is the appropriate forum to exorcise lies and nonsense regarding the subject. (It's nothing personal.) The kids I know who are experimenting in my own immediate circles, I've learned it best to just stand back and observe from a distance and expect them to have their shit together when dealing with me, and if they mess themselves up beyond being socially/professionally capable, I'll just cut them out of my life and wish them well on their journeys. There can be a frustration angle on my part, to be certain, but I figure that's to be expected.

Anyway, while thinking about this, I remember a neat revelation I had.

Check it out: This is fascinating.

I know this one guy who I've met various versions of. -Each version/clone/soul fragment I meet of this fellow (they look and act in very similar ways, have similar names, similar life patterns. Many of you have probably encountered one sort of archetypal person or another in your lives, so I hope you'll grasp what I'm talking about.) Anyway, I've met this particular guy as a young man, an old man and several ages in between, and he's universally got some significant element of flaky cognitive ability, (like not being able to drive a car safely because his mind keeps wandering. You have to keep poking him to keep him in this reality long enough to not get killed while performing simple activities.).

-But here's the thing; no version had ever used drugs! That's just how this guy rolls. -But out of all the people I know, he seemed one of the most drug damaged I've ever met.

Anyway, at one point I met the guy at ground-zero! A version of him who was a hard core druggie, deep into the hallucinogens. He was an absolute mess, but was the only one who had a chemical excuse for being such a space-case. And it struck me then...,

"Hey, I wonder if the damage this guy has caused to himself has rippled over into those other aspects of himself? Does it work like that? Can you mess yourself up across soul fragment boundaries? That's so interesting!"
 
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Candice

Jedi
A version of him who was a hard core druggie, deep into the hallucinogens. He was an absolute mess, but was the only one who had a chemical excuse for being such a space-case. And it struck me then...,

"Hey, I wonder if the damage this guy has caused to himself has rippled over into those other aspects of himself? Does it work like that? Can you mess yourself up across soul fragment boundaries? That's so interesting!"
Hmm I get what you’re trying to say but at the same time I meet very different “archetypes”, not the same as yours but centered around alcohol not drugs. The most messed up people I’ve known were all alcoholics.

I see you use the term “druggie” for people who use hallucinogens. The people I know of who have used ayahuasca I would just never call them that word. They’re very normal people, uni educated and well balanced. They have stable jobs and relationships, normies.

I live in Taiwan, the one component of the concoction grows here so many expats will try it. So I know many people who have tried it. Like I said I know of only one other person who experienced something like I did that altered their self permanently or turned their life upside down. That’s what was so crazy for me, I couldn’t understand how they were all still so normal.

The one person I do know who did change their life for the better was what you’d call a “druggie” in that he did many other drugs and his life was a mess. He’s a different person now, a family man.

I found it really lonely not having anyone in my circle to talk to about my experiences. In truth I think they thought I’d gone nuts. Maybe I did, but I navigated my way out on my own. One choice or step at a time.
 

Woodsman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Hmm I get what you’re trying to say but at the same time I meet very different “archetypes”, not the same as yours but centered around alcohol not drugs. The most messed up people I’ve known were all alcoholics.

I see you use the term “druggie” for people who use hallucinogens. The people I know of who have used ayahuasca I would just never call them that word. They’re very normal people, uni educated and well balanced. They have stable jobs and relationships, normies.

I live in Taiwan, the one component of the concoction grows here so many expats will try it. So I know many people who have tried it. Like I said I know of only one other person who experienced something like I did that altered their self permanently or turned their life upside down. That’s what was so crazy for me, I couldn’t understand how they were all still so normal.

The one person I do know who did change their life for the better was what you’d call a “druggie” in that he did many other drugs and his life was a mess. He’s a different person now, a family man.

I found it really lonely not having anyone in my circle to talk to about my experiences. In truth I think they thought I’d gone nuts. Maybe I did, but I navigated my way out on my own. One choice or step at a time.
If I may...

This seems to be a slightly sore spot for you; just to be clear, you don't need to parole anything from me or I should think anybody here. Everybody has a 'past'. And anyway, I generally appreciate your comments; (Your style and content is accomplished and positively additive.)

I used the term 'Druggie' to invoke a very specific, and I hope, somewhat universal image for the sake of convenience...

-That of, uneven physical bearing, zoned-out expression, bad memory, vague speech patterns, strange behavior, etc. -Like somebody who has been hit with a tranquilizer dart, but that's just their normal state every day. Kind of like an alcoholic, as you'd recognize one, but.., different. I had that guy in my life for a while. He was quite open about his drug experiences. (He was a big fan of that movie, "Limitless" as I recall, and was actively seeking drugs at the time which could reproduce the super-brain effect the film described. He'd done quite a lot of research and brought a laundry list of chemicals to the local pharmacist, (who regarded him with disbelief and told him, "No, you can't get any of that here." -All of which seemed odd; the movie was a very materialistic wishful fantasy about drugs quite at odds with anything resembling spiritual seeking, but as he was just this side of functionally insane by the time I met him, I didn't pursue the point.)

There's another category reserved for older people who may have stopped using for the most part but the traces remain; the burnouts. They're mostly functional, though usually quite unaccomplished in life, just cruising along on autopilot, often quite friendly and intelligent, except you have to slow down your conversational rhythm in order for them to keep up. Even if they are today sober, they clearly "Did too many drugs" when they were younger. That's another common template; I know several people who were in their 20's during the 1970's and who were very active in the hippie movement, stoned for decades. They have a particular 'look' and vocal quality when they speak. Again, it's a stereotype based on reality.

I also know numerous people who have used and currently use drugs, but you'd never suspect it, and so neither descriptive term applies. Maybe they'd seem sharper around the edges if they didn't, but you can't be sure since there's no reference to compare with in real time.

I find people's stories about their drug experiences quite interesting, actually. Castaneda is an excellent example. Much of his early work involved episodes with Mexican sorcery drugs Don Juan blasted him with. (In order to open his mind "because he was too dumb", according to his teacher. Not everybody needed it, but Castaneda did, apparently.)

Apparently, the human body can recover from most insults if you stop and put in the repair effort. That's something the C's noted. Castaneda seems to have been one of these. His drug use stopped early on if I recall from the books, as it was no longer necessary, and the man went on to live a fairly satisfying life. That's what his writing implied, anyway.
 
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