Putin Recognizes Donbass Republics, Sends Russian Military to 'Denazify' Ukraine

[youlik]

Romania didn't occupy Poland for decades, Russia did. That's a FACT. I understand you are Russian and so you may want not to consider that perhaps, similar to the US and the countries it occupied historically, some of the people your country occupied may not necessarily see you as a willing helper but may have doubts. This is called a normal human reaction due to the trauma inflicted on them by guess who, your country. I am looking forward to seeing how you deny Russia's historical occupation of Poland.

By the way, the absurdity of this debate is crazy - I'm forced to defend Poland and its people to you without myself being a Pole only because your absolute denial or unwillingness to even acknowledge any role Russia may have played to contribute to the situation is well, an insult to conscience - at least mine. Call me guilty.

As I have already written, the transformation of the country from agrarian to agrarian-industrial (Vladislav Gomulka) is also a FACT. The army of the People's Republic of Poland during the Warsaw Pact was one of the strongest in this organization, along with the armies of the GDR and Romania, and this is also a FACT. Do you like to call it "occupation" at the same time, but for God's sake, call it. As C's say in such cases is if someone wants to. In my opinion, this is a flawed, one-sided approach. To hush up some things, and others, those that cannot be silenced, to call ugly and monstrous, while others, objectively not essential, to inflate to an incredible scale, is an intentional action of Western propaganda and you follow it intentionally or not. In any case, I don't want anything from you or from Poland, and I ask you very much, don't bother to "defend" Poland from me, I'm not attacking it. Do you like to go crazy with the Poles together, go. As C's say again, is free will. The only problem is that using this one-sided, perverted approach, you, along with all Western propaganda, are trying to bring Russia and me, at the same time to knee , like some crazy BLM, forcing me to apologize for the devil knows what. That will never happen now. I really hope so, and I also really hope that you will understand. Now I am ready to stop this discussion.
Finally, I will cite an article written perhaps somewhat sharply for Western perception, but still, once anybody have to start calling things by their proper names. Otherwise, we have all "our Western partners". These "partners" are flattening us as much as they can, but all the "partners", even if you crack.

The Russians have done something unprecedented
10.08.2022 - 5:30
Dmitry Konanykhin, a Russian writer, author of a number of books about the grandchildren and great-grandchildren of Victory, expressed his opinion about the panic speeches on the topic of the "lost information war".

"And what is our "heavy defeat on the information front"?

We are totally 7 times less than the golden billion by heads.

And we are weaker once in 1000, by quantity of the media,.

The whole world is in the information web of a global monster.

And this golden billion (really one and a half) provided its information guns to a rabid Nazi pig.

So what?

We take them down extremely effectively.

Look at the hype in American patriotic public: "The Russians are back!"

Look at the Indians and the Chinese — they look at the unprecedented, their eyes are already round.

The Russians have done something unprecedented — they have not just challenged the half-thousand-year-old military-economic hegemony of the West, but they are carefully dismantling and amputating all his suckers from fucking Cthulhu.

When was this in history?

Never on this planet has one nation challenged fifty of the richest and most developed.

We, the Russians, we on this planet establish justice according to our understanding in this fucking XXI century with all its perversions and Armageddon.

So what?

We are Russians, what a delight!"

Русские внаглую сделали небывалое

Spoiler: Russian spelling

Как я уже писал, превращение страны из аграрной в аграрно-промышленную (Владислав Гомулка), это тоже ФАКТ. Армия ПНР во времена Варшавского Договора была одной из сильнейших в этой организации, наравне с армиями ГДР и Румынии и это тоже ФАКТ. Нравится вам при этом называть это "оккупацией", да ради бога, называйте. Как говорят Касс в таких случаях- это если кто то захочет. На мой взгляд это ущербный, однобокий подход. Замалчивать одни вещи, а другие, те которые нельзя замолчать, называть уродливыми и чудовищными, третьи же, объективно не существенные, раздувать до невероятных масштабов, это намеренное действие западной пропаганды и вы ему следуете намеренно или нет. В любом случае ни от вас ни от Польши я ровным счетом ничего не хочу и очень вас прошу, не трудитесь "защищать" Польшу от меня, я на нее не нападаю. Нравится вам с поляками вместе сходить с ума, сходите. Как говорят опять же Касс- свобода воли. Проблема только в том, что используя этот однобокий, извращенный подход, вы вместе со всей западной пропагандой пытаетесь поставить на колено Россию и меня заодно, как какой то сумасшедший BLM, заставив извиняться черт знает за что. Вот этого теперь уже никогда не будет. Я очень на это надеюсь и так же очень надеюсь, что вы поймете. Вот теперь и я готов прекратить эту дискуссию.
На последок приведу статью, написанную возможно несколько резковато для западного восприятия, но все таки когда то надо начинать называть вещи своими именами. А то у нас все "наши западные партнеры". Эти "партнеры" плющат нас как только могут, но все "партнеры", хоть ты тресни.

 

[SOTTREADER]

As I have already written, the transformation of the country from agrarian to agrarian-industrial (Vladislav Gomulka) is also a FACT. The army of the People's Republic of Poland during the Warsaw Pact was one of the strongest in this organization, along with the armies of the GDR and Romania, and this is also a FACT. Do you like to call it "occupation" at the same time, but for God's sake, call it. As C's say in such cases is if someone wants to. In my opinion, this is a flawed, one-sided approach. To hush up some things, and others, those that cannot be silenced, to call ugly and monstrous, while others, objectively not essential, to inflate to an incredible scale, is an intentional action of Western propaganda and you follow it intentionally or not. In any case, I don't want anything from you or from Poland, and I ask you very much, don't bother to "defend" Poland from me, I'm not attacking it. Do you like to go crazy with the Poles together, go. As C's say again, is free will. The only problem is that using this one-sided, perverted approach, you, along with all Western propaganda, are trying to bring Russia and me, at the same time to knee , like some crazy BLM, forcing me to apologize for the devil knows what. That will never happen now. I really hope so, and I also really hope that you will understand. Now I am ready to stop this discussion.
Finally, I will cite an article written perhaps somewhat sharply for Western perception, but still, once anybody have to start calling things by their proper names. Otherwise, we have all "our Western partners". These "partners" are flattening us as much as they can, but all the "partners", even if you crack.

Русские внаглую сделали небывалое

Spoiler: Russian spelling

Как я уже писал, превращение страны из аграрной в аграрно-промышленную (Владислав Гомулка), это тоже ФАКТ. Армия ПНР во времена Варшавского Договора была одной из сильнейших в этой организации, наравне с армиями ГДР и Румынии и это тоже ФАКТ. Нравится вам при этом называть это "оккупацией", да ради бога, называйте. Как говорят Касс в таких случаях- это если кто то захочет. На мой взгляд это ущербный, однобокий подход. Замалчивать одни вещи, а другие, те которые нельзя замолчать, называть уродливыми и чудовищными, третьи же, объективно не существенные, раздувать до невероятных масштабов, это намеренное действие западной пропаганды и вы ему следуете намеренно или нет. В любом случае ни от вас ни от Польши я ровным счетом ничего не хочу и очень вас прошу, не трудитесь "защищать" Польшу от меня, я на нее не нападаю. Нравится вам с поляками вместе сходить с ума, сходите. Как говорят опять же Касс- свобода воли. Проблема только в том, что используя этот однобокий, извращенный подход, вы вместе со всей западной пропагандой пытаетесь поставить на колено Россию и меня заодно, как какой то сумасшедший BLM, заставив извиняться черт знает за что. Вот этого теперь уже никогда не будет. Я очень на это надеюсь и так же очень надеюсь, что вы поймете. Вот теперь и я готов прекратить эту дискуссию.
На последок приведу статью, написанную возможно несколько резковато для западного восприятия, но все таки когда то надо начинать называть вещи своими именами. А то у нас все "наши западные партнеры". Эти "партнеры" плющат нас как только могут, но все "партнеры", хоть ты тресни.

@youlik this is funny. You know why? If we can't even begin to see where the other person is coming from, how is it that we can reasonably expect any of these conflicts happening in the real world to resolve themselves?

In the end, perhaps it's not that peace arrives because people have understood and resolved their differences, but rather, because people simply become tired of fighting (not that we are fighting!). One thing I have noted, peace doesn't simply come because one party is weaker than the other, America despite its humongous army still faces many challenges, likewise, Russia despite how many hypersonic missiles it possesses will still continue to face challenges.

In the end, let us resolve this, not because of understanding, but because we are tired and frankly their are perhaps better uses for our energy

 

[Ina]

As I have already written, the transformation of the country from agrarian to agrarian-industrial (Vladislav Gomulka) is also a FACT. The army of the People's Republic of Poland during the Warsaw Pact was one of the strongest in this organization, along with the armies of the GDR and Romania, and this is also a FACT. Do you like to call it "occupation" at the same time, but for God's sake, call it

Romania had to pay us 300 million to USSR as war reparations. Some of this might have been paid actually in cereals, and it lasted until the 60s I think, when the actual soviet troops stationed in Romania left. There were also troops stationed in Hungary, and possibly in Poland. In Romania was never a soviet occupation per se, although the composition of the first central commitees of the Communist Party were purely soviet predominantly during the end of the Premier Stalin period, and few years after. I do believe the army was transformed, specially in the military clothing / fashion, I know that from wearing the uniform myself, and not only that but everything from the weapons, arms including reconnaissance/topography ( which I completed my military service in), logistics/operations etc. So from a western point of view, it was occupation. From a Romanian point of view was supervised support for transformation and economic recovery after a REALLY devastating war.

 

[youlik]

@SOTTREADER

American M31 missiles struck the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant
The strikes on the Zaporozhye NPP in Energodar were carried out by American missiles.
The Ukrainian military inflicted multiple strikes on the Zaporozhye NPP in Energodar with the use of American missiles. Such actions are being observed for the first time and this fact indicates that the Ukrainian military intended to intentionally cause serious damage to the infrastructure of Europe's largest nuclear power plant. This is evidenced by numerous fragments of American M31 missiles, photos of which were published by the Telegram channel "Military Informant".
In the presented photos taken on the territory of Energodar and in the areas of the location of the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant, you can see fragments of American M31 missiles that were fired at the city and the NPP. It is not known how serious the damage caused by American missiles on the Energodar is, however, monitoring tools indicate the fact that there is no radiation leakage.
In turn, in the Mykolaiv-Krivoy Rog direction, the APU has at least a battery of 4 American MLRS capable of simultaneously striking 24 M31 missiles at distances up to 86 kilometers. This indicates that the risks that the Ukrainian Armed Forces will damage the Zaporozhye NPP during the shelling of the territory of the Energodar are extremely high.
At the same time, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation reports that due to the strikes on the Zaporozhye NPP, the thermal power plant and the equipment of the pools of the cooling system of nuclear reactors are partially damaged.

Американскими ракетами M31 нанесены удары по Запорожской АЭС

No one in the UN Security Council supported the Kiev version of the NPP, Polyansky said

MOSCOW, Aug 12 — RIA Novosti. At a meeting of the UN Security Council, no one supported the Ukrainian version of what is happening around the Zaporozhye NPP, which is regularly shelled by Ukrainian troops, while blaming Moscow, said Dmitry Polyansky, Deputy Permanent Representative of the Russian Federation to the UN.
"Let's hope that the discussion that took place, during which, despite all the obsession with accusations against Russia, no one actually supported the delusional Ukrainian version of events, will keep the Ukrainian leadership from new reckless provocations, and the visit of the head of the IAEA Grossi to the NPP will still take place in the very near future, and he will not be hindered neither the Ukrainians nor the UN Secretariat, no matter how much it denies its similar line," Polyansky wrote in his Telegram channel.
During the special operation, the Russian military took control of the Azov part of the Zaporozhye region and the entire Kherson region, occupying such large cities as Kherson, Melitopol and Berdyansk, and cutting off Ukraine from the Sea of Azov. New administrations have been formed in both regions that have announced plans to join Russia, Russian TV channels and radio stations are broadcasting, and trade and transport links with Crimea are being restored. In addition, eight years later, the North Crimean Canal was unblocked, and water flows back to the peninsula.
Zaporizhia NPP is located on the left bank of the Dnieper River, near the town of Energodar. This is the largest nuclear power plant in Europe in terms of the number of units and installed capacity. Six power units are installed at the station. ZAES has been under the protection of the Russian military since March. The Russian Foreign Ministry stressed the justification of the Russian military taking the power plant under protection from the point of view of preventing leaks of nuclear and radioactive materials.
Ukrainian troops have already attempted to attack the territory of the NPP several times since the beginning of the special operation. Attacks have become more frequent since August 5. On the night of August 7, Ukrainian troops launched a strike from the Hurricane MLRS at the NPP, fragments and a rocket engine fell about 400 meters from the operating power unit of the station, the authorities of Energodar reported. Two power units are not working at full capacity after the shelling. The head of the IAEA, Rafael Grossi, expressed concern about the shelling of the NPP. According to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, the artillery of Ukraine on August 7 again fired at the Zaporozhye NPP — the high-voltage line was damaged, the staff had to reduce the capacity of two power units.

Никто в Совбезе ООН не поддержал киевскую версию по ЗАЭС, заявил Полянский

 

[Adobe]

Comment by Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova on the occasion of the UN Security Council meeting on the situation at the Zaporizhzhya NPP (ZNPP) held on August 11, 2022​

"We are outraged by the way representatives of Western countries behaved during the meeting, which, for the sake of their Russophobic attitudes, immediately began to deny the obvious facts related to the Ukrainian shelling of the ZNPP. There is and can be no justification for the fact that States claiming special responsibility for ensuring international peace and security have not found the strength to clearly and distinctly point out to Kiev the inadmissibility of the atrocities it commits and to call on it to put an end to nuclear terrorism. One gets the impression that, no matter how far the Zelensky regime goes, the West is ready to write off all its sins in advance, even if the victims eventually turn out to be residents of Europe."

"The position of the UN Secretary-General continues to raise questions. No signals were sent to the Ukrainian leadership on his part. He is either unable to admit reality or unwilling. Otherwise, how to explain his lack of will, bordering on connivance with Ukrainian attacks on ZNPP? Recall that it was precisely because of the obstruction on the part of the Secretary General and the Secretariat headed by him that in early summer the almost agreed and in all respects prepared international mission of the IAEA broke down."


Full article below:

Комментарий официального представителя МИД России М.В.Захаровой в связи с состоявшимся 11 августа 2022 г. заседанием СБ ООН по ситуации на Запорожской АЭС (ЗАЭС)

mid.ru

 

[Gruchaa]

I am slowly but surely understanding the angst of Poles towards Russia. Correct me if I am wrong.

It's not Russia per se that is the scary bit, it's the fear of going back in economic and cultural development that has been achieved over the last 20 or so years. Russia represents the Soviet days when the country was no where near as well off as it is now.

I noted that Poles actually don't want to "unite" with Ukraine in terms of taking their territory. The initial big fear was that Russia would invade Poland thereby taking it back to the "dark" days.

It is however, quite interesting to be in Krakow and it felt like a million miles from the "war". Life proceeds as normal though for those that understand the language, every other person on the street appears to be speaking Ukrainian.

It was funny, I was in a ticket shop for tourists and they had flags above guide books indicating the language. There was a Russian flag but not a Ukrainian one

All your insights and prrception is correct. The communism time was not the best (full of nonsense times) and till today everyone used that to scare people.
Poles dont want to get the war here. So most of them thinks that if they will cheer on for ukraine, they will keep the bad times away from us and „for us”

 

[Gruchaa]

Add some 80 billion dollars which Poland received in the 1990s, before it was EU member. Which makes Poland probably the most subsidised country on the Earth.

Polish pathological hatred towards Russia is irational. There is no reason for Poles to hate Russia bigger than East Germany, Romania or any other Warsaw pact country has. I think that the culprit is Vatican and the catholicism.

Normally I don’t like to have such discussions but here I need to intervene;)
You and Youlik, are making too much generalisation, which is not good. You are selling the info which is communicated in polish media. However it does not represent what lots of Poles thinks. We do not have pathological hatred towards Russia. On the other hand we are not in love with it Either. We had long common bloody history together so for sure it’s need to be work out in someway. I would say that similar “emotions” we have for Germans. We are told in the school that we were treated as “lower humans” by both Russians and Germans. However it doesn’t mean if you are Russian and come here and need help lots of Poles wouldn’t help. Some don’t, but I think this is true for all countries, nations etc.

Saying things like you do. That someone has pathological emotions towards either, not knowing the true from direct perspective is not right in my opinion. And this is not objective, to which C’s called. This creates divisions and distortion and things which are happening right now.

Peace ;)!

 

[Nević Nenad]

Normally I don’t like to have such discussions but here I need to intervene;)
You and Youlik, are making too much generalisation, which is not good. You are selling the info which is communicated in polish media. However it does not represent what lots of Poles thinks. We do not have pathological hatred towards Russia. On the other hand we are not in love with it Either. We had long common bloody history together so for sure it’s need to be work out in someway. I would say that similar “emotions” we have for Germans. We are told in the school that we were treated as “lower humans” by both Russians and Germans. However it doesn’t mean if you are Russian and come here and need help lots of Poles wouldn’t help. Some don’t, but I think this is true for all countries, nations etc.

Saying things like you do. That someone has pathological emotions towards either, not knowing the true from direct perspective is not right in my opinion. And this is not objective, to which C’s called. This creates divisions and distortion and things which are happening right now.

Peace ;)!

Of course that is not right. My apologies. I'm basing my opinion merely as a side observer. Thats how it looks from a side.

 

[BHelmet]

Perhaps the situation is like living in the same neighborhood with a bunch of your ex-relationships all of which were toxic. Every time you walk out the door there is an ex-lover who was a dominatrix and there is one who cheated etc etc. Hard to be indifferent and not get triggered every time you see them.

But here is what I don’t get: how the Poles can still love the USA when they have been sold down the River and knifed in the back so many times by Uncle Sam?

Let’s not forget Poland’s post war fate was sealed at Yalta if I recall correctly. USA had dropped the bomb in a show of force and could have dictated any outcome. Patton was all hyped up to drive the Russian army out of Eastern Europe. (Whether he could have succeeded is another story). Instead the deal was made which quickly turned into the Cold War which has essentially never ended. Wunnerful a wunnerful…

 

[KJS]

But here is what I don’t get: how the Poles can still love the USA when they have been sold down the River and knifed in the back so many times by Uncle Sam?

If there is some merit to Feliks Koneczny's Theory of Civilizations, Poland is currently dominated by the Turanian civilization (defined as the "organization of social life"). This civilization prioritizes the economic factor as a base, and the source of ethics and law is the current leader. It's also communal and aprioric in the context of history. So as you see, people will basically go after the leader that gives economic stability, but he must "deliver". If not, the other one will be chosen. Turanian civilization often strengthens when there are a lot of military conflicts around. It has also a flavor of Byzantine, Sacral, and Latin civilizations (which was once dominating one), but the majority now is Turanian.

Poland clearly has an external organizer, this time from the USA. But the country is in the sphere of influence of Germany and also, for some time, from China. From what I know, one of the parties which are in the parliament had hefty money transfers from China. As I wrote before, the current ruling party had headquarters in a building owned by an Israeli intelligence officer. It is clear that the public opinion in Poland is molded by whoever is at the steer. As was written above, Russophobic Poles just cannot tell why they are like that. When asked, very often they got emotional, which is a clear sign of embedded stereotype.

"The Germans came, a lot of people died and the life went on, and then the Russians came, a lot of people died and the life went on" - this is how my grandma described times during and after II WW.

 

[Pierre]

Lavrov on the emergence of the multipolar world:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1558179017144111105

 

[dredger]

Short cartoon (2m) well done, good summary. ( it could have been better if it has showed that a small part of the gold was reused to build new military material, creating a loop)

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Magnifique dessin animé !... | Lionel Famechon | VK

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Magnifique dessin animé !.

vk.com

 

[Possibility of Being]

It seems it was not posted yet.

Oh! And who is awake?! Only 8 years of lethargy and now. And what happened, did they eat something wrong?

Amnesty International accused Ukraine of violating international law
Amnesty International: Ukraine violates international law by placing equipment in cities
MOSCOW, Aug 4 - RIA Novosti. Ukrainian troops violate international legal norms and military law by placing weapons in schools and hospitals in cities and putting civilians at risk, according to a report by the human rights organization Amnesty International.

It could have been a biggish thing in a sense of a precedence, but just a few days later any possible significance and/or impact got weakened by "regrets", "apologies" and resignations.

Anger in Kyiv.. Amnesty International expresses regret after report accusing Ukrainian forces of violations | tellerreport.com

Amnesty International expressed its “deep regret for the pain and anger” it caused after publishing a report accusing Ukrainian forces of committing violations, as the government expressed its anger, and the head of the organization’s branch in Kyiv resigned.

www.tellerreport.com

8/8/2022
Amnesty International on Sunday expressed its "deep regret for the pain and anger" it has caused after publishing a report accusing Ukrainian forces of abuses, as the government expressed outrage, and the head of the organization's branch in Kyiv resigned.

"We fully defend our findings and regret the pain it has caused," the NGO said in a statement.

The organization, which is based in London, indicated that its priority "in this conflict as in any other, is to ensure the protection of civilians... This is our only goal when we issued this report." ...


On the other hand, Oksana Pokalchuk, head of Amnesty International Ukraine, said in a statement last Saturday night, "I announce my resignation from Amnesty International Ukraine," considering that the report published last Thursday inadvertently served "Russian media propaganda."

Another head of Amnesty resigns due to disagreement with the report on the Armed Forces of Ukraine

UKRAINSKA PRAVDA - WEDNESDAY, 10 AUGUST 2022, 12:03 Co-founder of the Swedish Division of Amnesty International Per Wästberg has announced that he is leaving his post because of the organisation's scandalous report on the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

news.yahoo.com

Wed, August 10, 2022
UKRAINSKA PRAVDA – WEDNESDAY, 10 AUGUST 2022, 12:03

Co-founder of the Swedish Division of Amnesty International Per Wästberg has announced that he is leaving his post because of the organisation’s scandalous report on the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Source: Svenska Dagbladet and Expressen

Wästberg: "I have been a member (of the organisation – ed.) for almost sixty years. With a heavy heart, I am ending my long and fruitful cooperation because of Amnesty's statements about the war in Ukraine."

Details: He added that at the beginning of its existence, the group worked on the release of political prisoners, but it had gradually "expanded its mandate".

For reference: Wästberg became a founder of the Swedish branch of Amnesty International in 1963. From 1976-1982, he was editor-in-chief of Sweden's largest daily newspaper Dagens Nyheter. Wästberg is also a member of the Nobel Prize Committee for Literature.

Background:

On 4 August, human rights organisation Amnesty International stated in its report that the Ukrainian military is endangering the civilian population. However, the document did not say a word about the crimes of the invaders.

The President’s Office said that the lives of Ukrainians are threatened only by the Russian army and it denounced the selectivity of Amnesty International.

The Head of the Ukrainian office Oksana Pokalchuk left her post after the organisation's scandalous report.

Amnesty International's central office stated that it regretted the "suffering and anger" caused by its statement.

Of course the board of the Polish branch of Amnesty issued their "own" announcement the same day

Oświadczenie Zarządu i Dyrektorki Amnesty International Polska nt. komunikatu z 4 sierpnia

amnesty.org.pl

(machine translation)

As Amnesty International Poland, we would like to apologise for the pain and anger caused by the press release on Ukrainian military tactics published on 4 August this year. In the course of the work on the report, serious mistakes were made in the areas of consultation and communication, as well as insufficiently presented were both, the context as well as emphasis on Russian responsibility for the war in Ukraine.
These mistakes prevented to achieve impact in the area of human rights that Amnesty International wanted to achieve with its report.

 

[Hi_Henry]

I find the discussion about Poland/Russia/Soviet Union quite interesting in that I see some well trodden arguments being used which do need some further elaboration.

Lets start with "Poland has been getting a lot of "freebies" and an exorbitant amount of subsidies."

This canard misses completely what is happening. NO ONE GETS ANYTHING FOR FREE ever, including Poland.

Just read the book "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" to get a sense of how the game is played, as nothing has changed. Those often quoted statements such as "Country X received YYY euros from the EU." in no way explains what is really going on. No country gets YYY euros upfront. For any project THEY NEEDED TO BORROW THE MONEY first and THEN IN THE FUTURE when the project is finished will they have the money reinbersed. Now those YYY euros do not go directly to the pockets of country X's industry. Projects need to have open bidding, hence a firm from Austria or Germany could win and get a considerable portion of that YYY euro budget on the project. Do you see the tricks being played here ?

To really know what is going on one would need to have an analysis done of where the money YYY eventually ends up, to have a good idea of who benefits from all "exorbitant amount of subsidies". Hint: Germany.

Again, two points loom.
The first point is about history and about fears. Very strange, in my opinion, that the poor poles so afraid of Russia, and not afraid of Germany, which in a historical sense recently had the political regime which by program and document by racially motives deny the existence of Slavs in General and Poland in particular. And it wasn't pure theory. This regime was quite actively trying to achieve it goals in many ways, in particular by organizing many odious concentration camps on the territory of Poland, where people were destroyed industrially. Poles included, by the way. Russia has never done anything like this, but...
In this I see the irrationality and artificiality of such fears created by Western propaganda.

Before I knew in greater detail European history, I used to defer to the opinion of the Poles with regard to Russia/Soviet Union. Well no more of that for me. The above observation was one of my favorite discussion subjects which would every time cause heated debate WITHOUT ANY logical explanation of why it is so with the Poles. Why such ambivalence regarding Germany yet vicious display of hatred for Russia ? The only thing that comes to my mind is $$$$. Many Poles travel to Germany to work, so naturally they are not going to have hostile attitude toward their provider of work.

Now regarding all that evil that "Russia" did to Poland after WW II.

1) I would argue that there was no Russia after 1917. Was Stalin a Russian leader ? Who ran the show (at the top) in "Russia" then ?
2) After being being sent back 50 yrs in development once the German war machine was done what did the Poles (or anyone else considering this subject) think would happen after 1945 ? That things would magically right themselves IF ONLY THE SOVIETS WERE NOT THERE ?? The country needed rebuilding which TAKES TIME AND MONEY. To do it as quickly as possible they had to build buildings as fast as possible because housing was gone DUE TO WAR DESTROYING IT. Modular building was the way to go, it was the fastest way to build for many. Do the Poles really believe that if Churchill and Roosevelt didn't sell them to Stalin, that all Poles would be owners of one of these,


I say, "Dream On !!!" So those much maligned Soviet buildings gave a roof over the heads of people who had NOTHING.

If Soviets did not push out Germany then I suspect Poland would be something like what Ukraine is since 1990, a land to be exploited but not developed. What the Communists managed to provide was the best that could be gotten UNDER EXTREMELY DIFFICULT post-war conditions. Something which wasn't helped by the the Game called "Cold War" played by the West.

Now just a few words about that descriptive word "Russia/Russian". When Poland was partitioned it was done by 3 parties,
1) Prussia
2) Austria
3) Russia

Now lets look at who was running the show in these countries.
Prussia - Frederick the Great
Austria - Joseph II, Holy Roman Emperor
Russia - Catherine the Great

What's the common denominator among these rulers ? They have germanic blood in their veins !!!! Catherine the Great is no Russian no matter how much they want us convinced that she changed once there. The Partition of Poland was a Germanic Affair !!!!

How did Poland get to being so weak that the above happened ? I'd say it was in great part because of Augustus III of Poland. Now before you fall for the name and title be aware that Augustus III was AUSTRIAN. He was like gangrene on a wound for the Polish State. The rest was done by a weak in character and leadership Stanislaus II Augustus (who was a Pole), who became King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania after the drunkard August III died.

 

[BHelmet]

Point well taken, Hi_Henry. Nicely done. It is a human characteristic to just look at recent events and causes for a number of reasons: it’s easier to consider (far less info to comprehend) and easier to find a scapegoat and thereby avoid responsibility if you are the victim or scrutiny if you are the perpetrator.

But as you point out the problems are endemic and embedded for many many many generations.