Putin Recognizes Donbass Republics, Sends Russian Military to 'Denazify' Ukraine
- Thread starter bjorb
- Start date
They are also the fourth largest party in Ukraine. Zelensky nominated several of them in key government positions. Including the Ukraine intelligence agency. Resistance will be fierce. But like said, let them die for their ideas.
Today I learned a new abbreviation: Ze, maybe it has been mentioned 60 pages back, but I did not read it all. Last Sunday we were on page 234, this morning on page 292, 58 pages or 8+ per day, is that 120+ new posts per day! That is explosive.
On FB I read and excerpt from Russian operation in the Ukraine – end of day 2 | The Vineyard of the Saker
On FB I read and excerpt from Russian operation in the Ukraine – end of day 2 | The Vineyard of the Saker
What about Ze? Here is a comment, I wrote in response:
When it comes to Zelenskyy, Macron etc. I personally think it is kinda useless to talk about them as if they're much more than what Biden is to the US (quintessential spinless puppets) and ascribe to them any kind of real power, agency, common sense, decency or conscience (unless proven otherwise via actions and not words over the years). Every time I hear things like "but what if Zelensky realizes this or that", "what if Macron is seeing/realizing this or that", I'm mostly rolling my eyes. For me, projecting onto them what we would think and do is the equivalent of a zookeeper projecting his own thinking/humanity onto the alpha crocodile in the zoo and believing that that crocodile is in charge of what is going on in the zoo.
SOTTREADER
The Living Force
I should clarify the intentions of my questions. This is not to doubt that Russia doesn't have a plan or that all / most scenarios would not have been gamed out meticulously with the ultimate plan factoring this in. Personally I am not consuming any mainstream news on this - I learnt from my early days in covid.
What I am doing in getting the news is looking at citizen driven material rather than organisational. Only organisation I am relying on is RT, certainly no Western ones.
Are people able to walk 2 opposing sides without becoming emotionally attached to the outcome they want? One thing is people are "in sides" and everyone is attached to the outcome they want to see. This in turn highly influences how they interpret information. Here I am talking about normal people, not organisations.
So okay, look - there is a disturbing mentality entrenched in Western Ukraine that is anti Russian and this resides in people's minds. This mentality is further made stronger by support from EU and US. This mentality is not defeated through military because it resides in people's minds. The "de-nazification" needs to be defined further. "De-militarisation" is one that can be understood as a concept and how this can be done practically in the real world. Btw, Ukrainian population looks highly divided such that unity or shared goals appears impossible.
It's not being hysterical - it's trying to understand how stated goals match up to observed reality. The best arguments I can see against the moves from the EU/US is that Russia gamed this out and EU/US are failed unions and it kind of feels like these are gross underestimations of the capabilities of EU/US.
The best outcome I can see, based on my interpretation of current situation is for negotiation and diplomacy. I don't see Russia having a decisive victory because the "anti Russian" sentiments that exist in that region exist in the minds of people and no missiles or bullets can operate in that sphere. My primary concern is the EU/US will now do everything they can to destroy russian economy and make the lives of people there as difficult as they possibly can - they will go to lengths they wouldn't have e.g. literally hunting down Russian assets abroad, banning flights, attacking central bank and whatever else they think of. Look, Russia is still part of Europe, has European heritage and I'm sure the Russian people will feel a pressure from being excluded from being able to travel to or do things in Europe or face massive stigma if they step outside Russia into Western influenced country. All I'm saying is these are big challenges now presented to the situation.
To repeat, I don't doubt the actions Russia is taking, I simply don't know what the intended outcome is beyond "de militarisation" and "de Nazification" of Ukraine. If it's of any doubt I am clearly concerned from the Russian perspective i.e. I would want an optimum outcome from what they are doing which will then have a positive impact on us. What I am not though is ideological and attached to specific outcomes - fully acknowledge that things can happen which no one has any control over, including Putin.
I hope this makes my current position clear.
What I am doing in getting the news is looking at citizen driven material rather than organisational. Only organisation I am relying on is RT, certainly no Western ones.
Are people able to walk 2 opposing sides without becoming emotionally attached to the outcome they want? One thing is people are "in sides" and everyone is attached to the outcome they want to see. This in turn highly influences how they interpret information. Here I am talking about normal people, not organisations.
So okay, look - there is a disturbing mentality entrenched in Western Ukraine that is anti Russian and this resides in people's minds. This mentality is further made stronger by support from EU and US. This mentality is not defeated through military because it resides in people's minds. The "de-nazification" needs to be defined further. "De-militarisation" is one that can be understood as a concept and how this can be done practically in the real world. Btw, Ukrainian population looks highly divided such that unity or shared goals appears impossible.
It's not being hysterical - it's trying to understand how stated goals match up to observed reality. The best arguments I can see against the moves from the EU/US is that Russia gamed this out and EU/US are failed unions and it kind of feels like these are gross underestimations of the capabilities of EU/US.
The best outcome I can see, based on my interpretation of current situation is for negotiation and diplomacy. I don't see Russia having a decisive victory because the "anti Russian" sentiments that exist in that region exist in the minds of people and no missiles or bullets can operate in that sphere. My primary concern is the EU/US will now do everything they can to destroy russian economy and make the lives of people there as difficult as they possibly can - they will go to lengths they wouldn't have e.g. literally hunting down Russian assets abroad, banning flights, attacking central bank and whatever else they think of. Look, Russia is still part of Europe, has European heritage and I'm sure the Russian people will feel a pressure from being excluded from being able to travel to or do things in Europe or face massive stigma if they step outside Russia into Western influenced country. All I'm saying is these are big challenges now presented to the situation.
To repeat, I don't doubt the actions Russia is taking, I simply don't know what the intended outcome is beyond "de militarisation" and "de Nazification" of Ukraine. If it's of any doubt I am clearly concerned from the Russian perspective i.e. I would want an optimum outcome from what they are doing which will then have a positive impact on us. What I am not though is ideological and attached to specific outcomes - fully acknowledge that things can happen which no one has any control over, including Putin.
I hope this makes my current position clear.
SOTTREADER
The Living Force
@bjorn it's things like this that concern me. In my view you are exactly opposite of the anti-Russian views held in places like Poland. I feel like you don't understand what it means to say "let 5.4 million people die for their ideas".
I know this will receive some sort of reaction and I'm somehow wrong for saying this but to me this is what I think.
Hi_Henry
The Living Force
The surprising huge move that Russia made was planned and gamed at all levels, that's obvious. So disconnecting Russia from SWIFT is not something that they would have not have taken into consideration. They have been threatened with this back in 2014. In those those 7 yrs. they would not have waisted time on wishful thinking but instead looked at ways to have alternative ways to do business. The buying of gold at record pace was part of this insurance policy should the West (US) cut them off. If it happens, the biggest loser WILL BE EUROPE, which just may be Washington's plan.
www.reuters.com
If EU/US wants to go all out and cut Russia's central bank then there is always the option to cut off gas from Europe. After all, this is a silent war on Russia. All is fair in an all out war.
cassiopaea.org
One theory is that it has its roots in Khazar Empire which was know for savage cruelty. Perhaps, but the Mongols, Turks and the Cossacks were no less cruel when warring on the steps in these southern regions of the continent. That willingness to chop up someone with an ax instead of a single blow to the head, distinguished these people as being close to the apex of human scale of cruelty. Some of these people are in Western Ukraine but good luck trying to figure out who is who in this mix of Poles, Jews, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Russian, Tatars, Cossacks ......
Now the Ukrainians in the West are trapped with this sort of cancer fully armed and willing to do anything. Sad sad situation. Lets hope Russia manages to put them out of action ASAP. But then what later ?
Russia weighs local alternative to SWIFT payment system - agencies
Russian officials have drawn up a law that would create a local equivalent of the interbank payment system SWIFT, Deputy Finance Minister Alexei Moiseev said on Wednesday in comments cited by Russian news agencies.
www.reuters.com
If EU/US wants to go all out and cut Russia's central bank then there is always the option to cut off gas from Europe. After all, this is a silent war on Russia. All is fair in an all out war.
A splendid ,out in the open, display of "attitude" about where on the Western scale of worth a given race is positioned. Behind the nice smiles and polite conversations this attitude is hidden below the surface. After a bottle of wine or a few drinks it can sometimes make itself apparent.
Westerners and I suspect that even those people living in Poland do not appreciate the existence of this sadistic/beastly propensity in some people who live in Western Ukraine close to the EU border. This old comment by thorbiorn perfectly demonstrates this.
Revolution in Ukraine: Western-engineered Coup d'État?
thorbiorn, could you be more precise on what those maps actually show? I can not read russian...
cassiopaea.org
One theory is that it has its roots in Khazar Empire which was know for savage cruelty. Perhaps, but the Mongols, Turks and the Cossacks were no less cruel when warring on the steps in these southern regions of the continent. That willingness to chop up someone with an ax instead of a single blow to the head, distinguished these people as being close to the apex of human scale of cruelty. Some of these people are in Western Ukraine but good luck trying to figure out who is who in this mix of Poles, Jews, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Russian, Tatars, Cossacks ......
Now the Ukrainians in the West are trapped with this sort of cancer fully armed and willing to do anything. Sad sad situation. Lets hope Russia manages to put them out of action ASAP. But then what later ?
SOTTREADER
The Living Force
Yup, it's disturbing, I said here too
There's something lurking here that is being exploited by psychopaths or 4D STS.
Tyomodachi
Jedi
1) Svoboda never gained 14%, peak during Maidan ~4%, after ~1.5%
2) Their voter knows how to distinguish between nazism and nationalism (to put it bluntly, it annoys me when the concepts of nazism, nationalism and fascism are confused).
3) Their voter does not believe in the genocide of anyone in the Donbas, does not believe in a civil war, for them these are Russian invaders, and hatred of the enemy with whom you are fighting is quite normal for people throughout history
therefore it is not necessary to demonize a simple voter
Hi_Henry
The Living Force
Wow, can't believe I found this guy mentioned in a tweet. Vindman, the man who had no problem lying what a President said in a conversation with another statesman !!! Now that is a special quality to have.
Do you remember him ?
Would you believe anything he shows or says ?
Check it out,
He is a special evil snake.
Do you remember him ?
Would you believe anything he shows or says ?
Check it out,
He is a special evil snake.
SOTTREADER
The Living Force
China is making moves to try and counter balance the impact of the sanctions on Russia e.g.
SOTTREADER
The Living Force
This will get ignored by Western audiences because of course the lives of the people in the listed countries don't measure the same. Sad I think.
