"Puzzling People" by Thomas Sheridan - a puzzling person

[The rabbit]

I have read Robert Hare's work, not PP, but will if I get a chance. Psychopaths DO feel empty inside. That's something that not only has been written about (their boredom, etc), but in my personal experience with them, listening to them in rare moments when they go on a tangent. They absolutely do feel empty inside- no positive or true emotions, no nothing, just boredom. They have nothing to fill the dead air with. This is not an opinion.

Of course it's an opinion. Maybe you don't know what the word opinion means?

Perhaps the problem is how you use the word feel. You see, essential psychopaths simply do not feel the way normal people feel - they can't. They don't have the hardware. So, when you say that they "feel empty" that's just not possible. If you say that they "are empty" then that's closer to the truth of the matter, though they might disagree because a person who is missing a part of themselves usually doesn't know that since if they've never had something, how could they know they're missing it?

The point is that you are most definitely projecting emotional qualities onto psychopaths that do not exist. You can either understand that or choose not to, but it doesn't change the fact of the matter.

These are my thoughts to.It may be they dont have the faculties , the higher centers to be able self observe themselves. You can not describe sweetness to some one who has no taste. If you started saying "wow this is yummy , i love this taste" they would have no idea what you are talking about. If the world was populated by only psychopaths the book "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" could not have been written.

 

[kenlee]

They absolutely do feel empty inside- no positive or true emotions, no nothing, just boredom

.
In my view a psychopath can feel nothing real and enduring. They are like a predatory computer program and cannot be aware of what's going on inside them anymore then a computer program could be aware of itself. There is nothing in them to receive a true human emotion. There's no depth within their psychological body that can contain a true emotion and hold it. A sense of boredom, or perhaps (more accurately stated) a "feeling of inner emptiness " (or inner nothingness) could simply be a passive state that's waiting for something real to happen, a waiting state pending the receiving of something real, that is, a real human emotion. But one must be able to endure and hold such an inner state, a capacity that, in my view, a psychopath does not have.

 

[hubub]

Of course it's an opinion. Maybe you don't know what the word opinion means?

Wow, patronizing much?

So I used the word "feel" empty. Instead you are saying they "are empty." I get it. But from a so called admin I wouldn't have expected such childish/patronizing language when you could have made your point just as clearly without it. I sense the people on this forum are on a bandwagon bully mode. First Robin said something to my post and even I overlooked it and she also apologized, but everyone was quick to pounce on her one after the other. It only takes one person to say the point clearly and the point will be well taken. Turns into a farce when you see 20 people piling up and beating a dead horse saying the exact same thing to one person who made one mistake in understanding or wording. You can assure the person got the message. A little self restraint. Forgive and move on people.

 

[Laura]

hubub, again I ask: Have you ever heard of the game of Chinese Whispers?

 

[Aiming]

Of course it's an opinion. Maybe you don't know what the word opinion means?

Wow, patronizing much?

So I used the word "feel" empty. Instead you are saying they "are empty." I get it. But from a so called admin I wouldn't have expected such childish/patronizing language when you could have made your point just as clearly without it. I sense the people on this forum are on a bandwagon bully mode. First Robin said something to my post and even I overlooked it and she also apologized, but everyone was quick to pounce on her one after the other. It only takes one person to say the point clearly and the point will be well taken. Turns into a farce when you see 20 people piling up and beating a dead horse saying the exact same thing to one person who made one mistake in understanding or wording. You can assure the person got the message. A little self restraint. Forgive and move on people.

hubub, I see none of the other members being either childish, patronizing, or bullying or pouncing on one another in any way. What you "sense" there is merely a subjective impression. When the thread was focused on Robin's comments, the intent was to point out where she was making errors in her thinking and subsequently for all of us to learn something by clarifying the concept and avoiding to allow thinking errors to muddle said concepts - for the benefit of all. Same with your statement, where the members here simply point out something you said which does not correctly reflect what we know about how psychopaths work. It's nothing personal.

 

[Laura]

hubub, this is a research forum, not an opinion, loose-lips melee. Perhaps you didn't read the forum guidelines very carefully that came up when you registered. When you clicked "okay" in agreement to those guidelines, it is assumed that you have read them. And the guidelines are there for a reason: to make it clear what we do and how we work. Perhaps you should re-read them.

Precision of language is important when doing any kind of research and it is also important for the average person when they talk to others about such matters as psychopathology. Language is our main means of conveying meaning and the world is not black and white so very often, those meanings are nuanced. If you don't pay attention to this factor, what you say becomes little more than a game of Chinese Whispers. If you use language loosely or inaccurately, you not only fail to communicate with those who DO use language with more precision, you also perpetuate misunderstanding to others in your larger field of influence. That failure to be precise and to insist on precision when you communicate, can come back to bite you big time. Effectively, you become a purveyor of, at best, half-truths that harm others.

 

[Carl]

Of course it's an opinion. Maybe you don't know what the word opinion means?

Wow, patronizing much?

So I used the word "feel" empty. Instead you are saying they "are empty." I get it. But from a so called admin I wouldn't have expected such childish/patronizing language when you could have made your point just as clearly without it. I sense the people on this forum are on a bandwagon bully mode. First Robin said something to my post and even I overlooked it and she also apologized, but everyone was quick to pounce on her one after the other. It only takes one person to say the point clearly and the point will be well taken. Turns into a farce when you see 20 people piling up and beating a dead horse saying the exact same thing to one person who made one mistake in understanding or wording. You can assure the person got the message. A little self restraint. Forgive and move on people.

The comments were made to you because most people, myself included, have a hard time truly understanding how absolutely barren and alien the inner landscape of a psychopath actually is. From the language that you used, it seemed that you were still attaching human qualities to the psychopath despite your experience with and research on them, which is certainly not uncommon. Therefore Laura's comments above are pertinent.

Maybe you should ponder why you think you're being "bullied" just because some members replied to your post with their thoughts. Read over the replies that you received again with a clear head, because I don't see any attack being made on you. We are here to share knowledge and learn, so it is best not to see yourself as too important to be disagreed with, even if that disagreement is just over the language that you have used.

The reason you see many people saying similar things to a person is not just a big feeding frenzy. Everyone offers a slightly different angle and approach of explanation, which can make the message and understanding sink in more easily. Maybe you just 'get it' after one person explains it in one way to you, but many people do not. And if many of us observe the same thing and comment on it, it makes it much less likely that there has been a mistake in judgement of the situation. Also, we all learn from reading people's different perspectives, as well as from offering our own. So, as Puzzle said, it's nothing personal.

 

[Gertrudes]

hubub, adding upon others' thoughts, I would first reiterate Laura's words on re reading the forum's guidelines, it will just give you a much better understanding of what exactly is that we do here, and why. Within the context of what this forum is really about, others' comments towards you, including anart's question that you found patronizing, may gain a completely different light.

No one is patronizing anyone here, but rather questioning views that are often based on sand castles including words whose meaning we take for granted, such as opinions. I would also suggest you to read the thread on opinions to gain not only a much broader understanding of the word itself, but also of the context in which anart made that question.

Our aim here is to grow, in the full sense of the word, and that entails not only gaining pure, unbiased knowledge on what constitutes reality, but also of ourselves, and how we interact with that reality. Your interaction with Robin being one such example, you may think that other member's comments were out of proportion, but it is the dissecting of those interactions that brings to light the most hidden and unhealthy aspects hidding within us. Make no mistake, the devil hides in the details, and by dismissing some things because we have learned to think of them as minor or even irrelevant, we lose our greatest opportunity to grow.

 

[abeofarrell]

Just an observation, Hubub.

You have a problem with the fact that people are focusing on your wording. But when you think about it many of the problems occurring in relationships stem from misunderstandings in language. Laura is totally right in stating that watching how you talk is a good starting point for working on yourself.

When understanding the term "feel empty" you should not only look at it etymologically, but also culturally. Culturally speaking the phrase refers to a feeling of lacking something. This is why it is not correct. A psychopath cannot feel a lack when they never had something in the first place.

Nobody is against you personally, they simply wish to enforce the guidelines regarding terminology which protect people from misunderstandings.

FWIW

 

[Al Today]

[...] Have you ever heard of the game of Chinese Whispers?

No. I looked it up and it made me smile. So very true about human nature.
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_whispers[quote author=wiki]Chinese whispers is one name for a game played around the world, in which one person whispers a message to another, which is passed through a line of people until the last player announces the message to the entire group. Errors typically accumulate in the retellings, so the statement announced by the last player differs significantly, and often amusingly, from the one uttered by the first. Some players also deliberately alter what is being said in order to guarantee a changed message by the end of it. The game is often played by children as a party game or in the playground. It is often invoked as a metaphor for cumulative error, especially the inaccuracies as rumours or gossip spread, or, more generally, for the unreliability of human recollection.[/quote]
Learning is Fun!

 

[jasstnhawk]

I sense the people on this forum are on a bandwagon bully mode. First Robin said something to my post and even I overlooked it and she also apologized, but everyone was quick to pounce on her one after the other. It only takes one person to say the point clearly and the point will be well taken. Turns into a farce when you see 20 people piling up and beating a dead horse saying the exact same thing to one person who made one mistake in understanding or wording. You can assure the person got the message. A little self restraint. Forgive and move on people.

For the sake of clarification: concerning the interaction between myself and other forum members here within this thread, I would like to state that not once did I feel "pounced on" or "bullied", rather I viewed this exchange as kick butt compassion or lessons in how important it is to question/observe my own mechanical thinking, why it is important to use terms in a precise manner so as to not "muddle" their meaning , and also, to paraphrase Buddha: If I propose to "speak", always ask myself, is it true, is it necessary, and is it kind?

To clarify the lesson in observing my mechanical thinking, Puzzle states the following:

When the thread was focused on Robin's comments, the intent was to point out where she was making errors in her thinking and subsequently for all of us to learn something by clarifying the concept and avoiding to allow thinking errors to muddle said concepts - for the benefit of all.

What is amazing about this forum, as Puzzle pointed out, is -- as I learn, others learn also. I knew when I chose to join this forum as an accompaniment to "Do-ing" the Work, I also chose to look at those aspects about myself that are not so "pretty", and at times this experience/lesson may be downright "ugly" or even terrifying. With that said, I view the other forum members not as "bullies" but as elder sisters and brothers who act as compassionate guideposts pointing me in the direction of objective truth about myself and the Reality of our reality thereby providing the fertile ground from which I and others can grow.

To further clarify, Gertrudes states;

Our aim here is to grow, in the full sense of the word, and that entails not only gaining pure, unbiased knowledge on what constitutes reality, but also of ourselves, and how we interact with that reality. Your interaction with Robin being one such example, you may think that other member's comments were out of proportion, but it is the dissecting of those interactions that brings to light the most hidden and unhealthy aspects hidding within us. Make no mistake, the devil hides in the details, and by dismissing some things because we have learned to think of them as minor or even irrelevant, we lose our greatest opportunity to grow.

Concerning the lesson of using terms in a precise manner, Laura succinctly states:

If you use language loosely or inaccurately, you not only fail to communicate with those who DO use language with more precision, you also perpetuate misunderstanding to others in your larger field of influence. That failure to be precise and to insist on precision when you communicate, can come back to bite you big time. Effectively, you become a purveyor of, at best, half-truths that harm others.

My apology to you hubub was born out of my realization (via the feedback from more knowledgeable/experienced members) that I was misusing precise, hard to grasp terms thereby creating a communication breakdown between myself and "those who DO use language with more precision". Furthermore, I was misdirecting and potentially harming you, and anyone else who might read this thread. Also, upon reflection I apologized because I realized I was "pouncing" on you in a roundabout way...

To further clarify the lesson I learned in regard to my "pouncing" on you -- Lesson = I should always ask myself before commenting, "Are my words kind?" By the term "kind" I do not mean "nice-y nice-y", but rather are my words beneficial and considerate? Upon further reflection, I found my words to be neither beneficial (because of the lack of preciseness in the use of the terms I chose to employ) nor considerate (because my mechanical thinking/programs, i.e. "black and white" thinking which leaves no room for gray areas and a "know-it-all" stance out of a fear of not knowing, got in the way of compassion and objectivity. In other words, when reflecting upon my mechanical thinking I realized that it is representative of a type of thinking that was not carefully thought out/considerate/compassionate/objective, which then proceeded to a conclusion that I had "pounced" on you).

All is lessons and we are all in this together. :) As a fellow "learner" and forum member, I would like to state that it is your choice to think carefully about the well meaning/compassionate advice that has been so freely given to you here within this thread. If you do chose to think carefully about this advice, you may discover that it is the single most important step you may ever take ... OSIT.

 

[Don Genaro]

Have you ever heard of the game of Chinese Whispers?

Haha, I couldn't resist using that in a reply to one of his sockpuppet troll comments on one of the reviews of Puzzling People :D

[quote author=JFredMuggs]If the book is plagiarism from LKJ, does that not call into question the source? You can't have it both ways. If he plagiarized everything, then the source is crap.

Mr. Muggs, this is what they call the "false cause" in logical fallacies:

"One such mistake in thinking is the 'post hoc ergo propter hoc' (after this, therefore because of this) fallacy in which a causal connection is assumed because one thing happens prior to another thing happening, therefore the second thing must be caused by the first thing."

Have you ever heard of Chinese Whispers? ;)[/quote]

 

[seek10]

Of course it's an opinion. Maybe you don't know what the word opinion means?

Wow, patronizing much?

So I used the word "feel" empty. Instead you are saying they "are empty." I get it. But from a so called admin I wouldn't have expected such childish/patronizing language when you could have made your point just as clearly without it. I sense the people on this forum are on a bandwagon bully mode. First Robin said something to my post and even I overlooked it and she also apologized, but everyone was quick to pounce on her one after the other. It only takes one person to say the point clearly and the point will be well taken. Turns into a farce when you see 20 people piling up and beating a dead horse saying the exact same thing to one person who made one mistake in understanding or wording. You can assure the person got the message. A little self restraint. Forgive and move on people.

hubhub,
you may want to read this thread to avoid any projections. http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,6419.msg44151.html#msg44151

 

[Don Genaro]

[quote author=JFredMuggs]If the book is plagiarism from LKJ, does that not call into question the source? You can't have it both ways. If he plagiarized everything, then the source is crap.

Mr. Muggs, this is what they call the "false cause" in logical fallacies:

"One such mistake in thinking is the 'post hoc ergo propter hoc' (after this, therefore because of this) fallacy in which a causal connection is assumed because one thing happens prior to another thing happening, therefore the second thing must be caused by the first thing."

Have you ever heard of Chinese Whispers? ;)[/quote]


JFredMuggs has now deleted all his comments... - Sound like anyone we know?
He also replied to my comment above (and then deleted it but I caught it in my email notifications).

[quote author=JFredMuggs/Thomas Sheridan]JFredMuggs says:
As I learned from FaceBook, you are not capable of rational thought.[/quote]

Funny that since I've never been a friend of Mr. Muggs on Facebook but I was friends with Mr. Sheridan...

 

[ixion]

sheridan has lots of facebook aliases, apparently he goes by the name of horatio billysmart heridan now

http://the-real-thomas-sheridan.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/thomas-sheridans-multiple-facebook.html

i wonder if this is what he means by invented personas? :D