QFS pre school

[Aliana]

Thank you curious Georgia for starting this post. Interestingly I have been thinking about this too. I have been chastising myself for many months for not being more active on this forum. I have been aware of the C’s material since about 2004 and have read most of the books, many of them several times. However I still feel like a newbie when it comes to the forum.

I have a sense that there has been a huge wall that I have been trying to break down, so I can get over my apprehension of posting. While struggling with this I realized that some of my reasons for not posting are…

1. I have a great respect for the Work and everything that the SOTT team is doing; therefore I am very conscious of not wanting to add noise.
2. Although I have many questions that are not always answered in other posts, I am still reticent to “stick my neck out”. I realized though, that this is a program and it has a lot to do with self-worth issues that I am working on.

One interesting thing I have noticed is that since I do read SOTT daily and try to stay current with the forum, I find that I am often thinking about a subject that will turn up in a discussion thread that day or has actually been posted in the past several days – so I feel I must be connected on some level.

At any rate – knowing that others have the same issues, gives me courage. I plan to keep trying to go up against the programs that are keeping me silent and then to become more active.
AP

 

[Renaissance]

It's been pretty amazing to see the number of new posters in the past year or so. It seems those who remain and stay at least somewhat active are willing to question their programs, particularly those which arise when a group mirror is involved. Honest feedback that reflects the predators mind is quite a different kind of substance to ingest, and it seems there is even a certain amount of preparation that needs to be done before a mirror can be helpful. There also seem to be different types of mirrors. In the introductory period (if someone is not simply trolling), it can be easy for members to point out differences without consideration for where a newer member is coming from. Observations may be valid, but in order for the feedback to be useful a certain amount of work needs to be done. There have been many times in the past months where I felt the tendency to 'correct' some brand new member. Perhaps the observation was partly 'correct' but the context is what's important. Without consideration of the context, it's easy to remain self serving.

I think setting up the forum for different points of knowledge and understanding is a great idea.

 

[MrGullible]

Georgia,

I just have to say that to my way of thinking, your post about not posting has been a blessing to many of us here in different ways. This thread you started demonstrates the value of posting with sincerity and the sincere helpfulness of those who are helping us.

Thank you

 

[combsbt]

Yes CG this thread is much appreciated. I have been reluctant to post for many of the same reasons already stated and share many of the same fears/doubts as others have expressed in this thread.
Reading what Seamas posted about writing a post, leaving it for a while, and returning to it to find it seems as though it was written by someone else really struck home with me. I personally have written many drafts that were re-read later and discarded. This however does seem to be a form of participation in this forum. The simple fact that this forum demands that sort of consideration before posting has an effect on the poster (or potential poster) to an extent that posting may not even be necessary for one's question to be answered. I hope this makes sense, but I feel as though I have learned much by just considering what to post, then reviewing it and often finding it has already been answered.

 

[Oxajil]

I think that interaction is indeed important. One may have read a lot, but without applying it or thinking about it, imo, that what has been read might fade away, or just be, merely ''reading''. So I think what Seamas (welcome by the way! :)) proposed here might be a good idea.

I think that forming good questions is the key to finding the answers you are looking for. Something like a "question of the week" posted in the newbie section, or even in its own section, by one of the more senior forum members might be helpful for me as it would give me starting points for explorations and discovery that I might not think of on my own. These questions could be about topics that have already been discussed in other parts of the forum and might be old hat for many members, but would present an opportunity for discovery and discussion for newcomers. They could even be questions that the Cs posed to you in the past. Something like this would allow teachers on the forum to guide learning and discussion in certain directions, and it would help members who are having trouble figuring out what to ask. Of course this would only work if a group committed to participating in the discussion each week. I guess commitment is a really big part of the sincerity that was discussed earlier in this thread.

Does this sound like an idea worth pursuing, or is it a duplication of efforts? More importantly is this something that would be worthwhile and realistic (timewise) for teachers of the school? I would volunteer to help if needed.

But, what if after some time the question is answered in one particular thread.
And another new member knocks on the door and comes in and checks all those ''newby'' threads and feels like he wanted to participate in one of those threads, especially that particular thread, but then he figures out that it was somehow already ''covered'' by other new members. So I guess what he could do is to fully read and try to understand that particular thread and then try to participate in other 'question'-threads that are still active ?

 

[RedFox]

and most of all, I realize now, the fear of being ignored by a group of people I have come to respect, admire and value above all others.

When I first considered posting (actually my second ever post), after doing a lot of reading and learning about this place, those where part of my first fears.
After some work on this it appears (for me at least) to come down a lot to just general 'fear of rejection', and I've been able to separate that from posting by working on it directly.

I have a great respect for the Work and everything that the SOTT team is doing; therefore I am very conscious of not wanting to add noise.

The simple fact that this forum demands that sort of consideration before posting has an effect on the poster (or potential poster) to an extent that posting may not even be necessary for one's question to be answered.

I think this is very important, I spend quite a lot of my time considering what I have read on SOTT and the forum, and when questions arise I'll consider what to ask well before even getting near a computer. I realised a few month ago that then just considering how others on the forum may respond has helped me answer my own questions (I'm aware that this approach has the potential to become quite subjective if I'm not careful about it), which hopefully has the effect of reducing my own internal 'noise' (and not posting it here).
After having posted something I tend to spend quite some time considering it too (while doing my best not to spend all my time Over thinking, which I have a tendency to do).

Perhaps what it boils down to (and stop me if I'm making it too simplistic) is just increasing your own awareness levels, and with that it naturally brings up parts of yourself you'd rather not be aware of, which tend to be disguised/hidden by fears.

Balancing the reading/learning that (seems to be) required to be able to actually contribute at some meaningful level (or so it seems to me at the moment), against participating in the forum has been on my mind ever since my second post. Perhaps I missed the point, and we can all contribute at our own level??
Anyone got any ideas on how to balance the learning with posting?

I kind of like the idea of a "question of the week". It could potentially be a good exercise in research/learning. I initially started writing about how it could work, but then realised something else. Isn't this already how the forum works to some extent?
If so, perhaps it would be useful to have a thread that helps people get use to how to research/learn here? Or would that be too restricting?

 

[Seamus]

Coming back to this thread after a good night's sleep, there are so many new posts! curiousgeorgia, I think the amount of activity on this post really illustrates the value of posting, even when you are worried about it. Thanks for having the courage to voice something that was on a lot of our minds.

A couple of really good points were made regarding the idea I proposed about a "question of the week" or something similar (Oxajil thanks for the welcome!):

I think what Seamas (welcome by the way! :)) proposed here might be a good idea.

I think that forming good questions is the key to finding the answers you are looking for. Something like a "question of the week" posted in the newbie section, or even in its own section, by one of the more senior forum members might be helpful for me as it would give me starting points for explorations and discovery that I might not think of on my own. These questions could be about topics that have already been discussed in other parts of the forum and might be old hat for many members, but would present an opportunity for discovery and discussion for newcomers. They could even be questions that the Cs posed to you in the past. Something like this would allow teachers on the forum to guide learning and discussion in certain directions, and it would help members who are having trouble figuring out what to ask. Of course this would only work if a group committed to participating in the discussion each week. I guess commitment is a really big part of the sincerity that was discussed earlier in this thread.

Does this sound like an idea worth pursuing, or is it a duplication of efforts? More importantly is this something that would be worthwhile and realistic (timewise) for teachers of the school? I would volunteer to help if needed.

But, what if after some time the question is answered in one particular thread.
And another new member knocks on the door and comes in and checks all those ''newby'' threads and feels like he wanted to participate in one of those threads, especially that particular thread, but then he figures out that it was somehow already ''covered'' by other new members. So I guess what he could do is to fully read and try to understand that particular thread and then try to participate in other 'question'-threads that are still active ?

I kind of like the idea of a "question of the week". It could potentially be a good exercise in research/learning. I initially started writing about how it could work, but then realised something else. Isn't this already how the forum works to some extent?
If so, perhaps it would be useful to have a thread that helps people get use to how to research/learn here? Or would that be too restricting?

I think these are both really good questions. I agree with RedFox's comment, this is how the forum works to a certain extant, in an informal way. There are questions, explorations, articles and links posted on a daily basis and when it comes down to it is up to me to make a commitment to participating. Oxajil raises a good point as well, a series of "question of the week" threads might grow stale over time as new groups of new members are constantly joining the forum. So then if the new member reads through the older "question of the week" thread and tries to participate in the newer ones, this would indeed be basically what happens on the forum now. I was thinking that it would be a structured way for new members to learn how to learn. I have a long background in academia, so I am used to being led around by teachers who tell you how to think and what to know and then test you on whether or not you retained it. So as long as you tell them what they want to hear, you can't go wrong. That kind of "teaching" encourages a need to please and a fear of failure in students, two things that I have been trying to work on in myself. In the transcripts I see regular examples of the Cs asking questions and expecting their students to conduct their own research, discuss the question and what they have learned and formulate their own theories before they will divulge further information on that subject. That was what I was thinking of when I made the suggestion, but this is essentially what happens in the forum already. In many ways new members are starting in a much better place than the original members because we have a huge body of work to draw on in order to get up to speed. Like Isaac Newton, we have the opportunity to "stand on the shoulders of giants".

So is a question of the week of this kind necessary, or will it simply create more work for senior members and duplicate existing efforts? Maybe it would be a better idea to encourage new members to stick to the newbie section and include a link to an older threads in another part of the forum when they are starting a new thread. That would create a little bit of structure for beginning posters, it would be easy for established members to recognize a lack of experience, and it would create an indicator of sincerity and commitment, as new members would commit to this process as part of the agreement to joining the forum. It would encourage members to search through the forum for existing information and build on what is already here, and it would create a safe environment for the asking of "dumb questions". Again this is something that already happens to a certain extent on the forum, but formalizing the process might help to get new members involved more quickly, and it might reduce the number of people who make posts and ask questions before they do their research and then feel foolish because they are asking repeat questions.

Thanks, Seamas

 

[curious georgia]

Fellow seekers,
I am grateful to each of you who have responded to this thread. In the interest of not filling up the thread with "you're welcomes" I will not answer each of you directly at this point. I think you are all doing quite well and I am happy to see you overcoming your inhibitions. In doing so, you are helping others as well. You have ALL made good points and have learned that you are able to contribute. There seems to be a little more posting activity in other threads as well. I am looking forward to your future participation and I am sure others are also.
No need for thanks. Glad to be of service to others as well as myself.
Georgia

*Thank you Laura and all concerned who have made this wonderful learning opportunity available to us* :)

 

[Jeremy F Kreuz]

Curious Georgia,

Yes, I was too eager, too anxious to respond to your thread. To continue the boxing comparison, I was too eager to give you a punch, with the wrong intentions. I thought I could give you a punch without getting punched back. Good for my learning you responded the way you did. Before I start analysing others, I better stick to analysing my own reactions. What I wrote fits more my own internal state then yours. Once again, thanks for taking it the way you did.

Jeremy.

 

[curious georgia]

Curious Georgia,

Yes, I was too eager, too anxious to respond to your thread. To continue the boxing comparison, I was too eager to give you a punch, with the wrong intentions. I thought I could give you a punch without getting punched back. Good for my learning you responded the way you did. Before I start analysing others, I better stick to analysing my own reactions. What I wrote fits more my own internal state then yours. Once again, thanks for taking it the way you did.

Jeremy. I learned something from your post, I learned to wait untill my program stopped running, AND THEN, stand up for myself, explain myself better, set things straight. I am glad I "punched back" as you said it helped you. You actualy said something I needed to hear (putting one I in charge) and I noticed that, after my ego stopped it's temper tantrum. Glad you took it in stride. Welcome

 

[curious georgia]

2. Although I have many questions that are not always answered in other posts, I am still reticent to “stick my neck out”. I realized though, that this is a program and it has a lot to do with self-worth issues that I am working on.

I wish you would ask those questions, chances are, many of us have the same questions and are feeling the same way.

One interesting thing I have noticed is that since I do read SOTT daily and try to stay current with the forum, I find that I am often thinking about a subject that will turn up in a discussion thread that day or has actually been posted in the past several days – so I feel I must be connected on some level.

Yes, I'm sure you are connected. One reason I started this thread is because I had a strong pull to do it, as if coming also from other souls' needs.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Thanks curious georgia for starting this thread; and thanks to everyone who has posted, there is lots of interesting, informative, and useful comments in every post so far.

I have made relatively few posts for most of the reasons mentioned in other posts. The most prominent of these are: there is so much to read and learn that also takes time to "digest" (quite a bit of the material has to be read more than once); always trying to minimize the noise I may add; and just realizing that I don’t have that much of real value to add (even as I constantly continue to learn, my ignorance is vast).

I definitely agree that sincerity is the most important. And perhaps quality of participation is at least as important as quantity.

...Can one be part of a network (in this case SOTT forum) if one doesn't actively contribute to the forum? And what, exactly, is 'contributing'? Does one contribute to the work of the forum by reading the material here, and thereby increasing one's knowledge, so that one can then in turn assist others who may never otherwise be exposed to this type of material? If one contributes financially to SOTT, but doesn't post to the forum, is that 'contributing'? And finally, what exactly constitutes a 'network'? What form does a network take? I have noticed in myself a kind of energetic or psychic connection to the SOTT forum, and this post of yours, curious georgia, is a good synchronistic example of that.

These are very good questions. I would say that, yes, increasing one’s knowledge and assisting others who are open and searching in their own way but may never otherwise be exposed to this type of material is quite probably contributing to the work of the forum. I would say that definitely contributing financially is a very valuable form of contribution. And I have also noticed many different kinds of connections to this network.

Indeed, i guess that feeling is familiar to most here! But this can also serve the purpose of helping us to push for our truest and most sincere efforts. That is what matters IMO.
Because if you think of it, even for the "simplest" of questions a new member might pose, an older member is learning for example, how to answer while practicing external consideration.
Or for any "subjective" opinion or view we express in good faith, someone who has that knowledge or had that lesson before, is now learning to "hold the mirror",etc.
So in that sense i guess that, provided there is honesty to work and some healthy good will, everything has potential to be usefull as a lesson, practice, reminder etc. to someone else...!! And that's interesting...

Yes, I agree with all that you said. I have noticed that in my own case I need to find a balance with my attitudes and approach. What I mean is that no matter how careful I want to be not to add unnecessary noise, or to be as sincere as possible, etc., there is no way to make this absolute. There is always some noise in my posts, and also there is some element of insincerity that might slip in. You just have to do the best you can. Some of my doubts about posting do not only stem from being daunted by the "level of knowledge and development" demonstrated by others on the forum, but knowing that there are so many sides to my motivations and thoughts and feelings that being absolutely sincere and noise-free seems pretty much impossible. So utmost efforts are necessary to try to achieve these aims but we must also keep in mind that as we currently are, the results to be expected should be within reason (and we shouldn’t let this fact stop from participating and contributing as much as we can). The one thing that I have the most confidence in is that I do have a healthy dose of good will towards this network and project.

It's been pretty amazing to see the number of new posters in the past year or so. It seems those who remain and stay at least somewhat active are willing to question their programs, particularly those which arise when a group mirror is involved. Honest feedback that reflects the predators mind is quite a different kind of substance to ingest, and it seems there is even a certain amount of preparation that needs to be done before a mirror can be helpful. There also seem to be different types of mirrors. In the introductory period (if someone is not simply trolling), it can be easy for members to point out differences without consideration for where a newer member is coming from. Observations may be valid, but in order for the feedback to be useful a certain amount of work needs to be done. There have been many times in the past months where I felt the tendency to 'correct' some brand new member. Perhaps the observation was partly 'correct' but the context is what's important. Without consideration of the context, it's easy to remain self serving.

Yes, it really has been amazing to see the number of new posters about the past year. All of the rest of your points are very valid and well put. And it never seems to stop surprising me whose or what post will be really helpful in "getting" something in new a way. All in all, I would say to everyone, don’t be TOO obsessed with the quality or quantity of your posts. Do the best you can in both gaining from and contributing to the whole learning and sharing project in whatever way you can.

My default? When in doubt, read.

Yeah, me too.

 

[adam7117]

With that said, I cannot stress enough that sincerity is really all that is needed. Mistakes are one of the most useful and powerful ways to learn - as long as one is sincere in their desire to learn.

Why don't I post more...? It's a good question, anart - after all I do read a lot of the posts. For me it's a combination of things really. Time, health, personal insecurity and not wanting to deal with reality of the self. Fear of being ridiculed and/or misunderstood - as so often happens in this line of work. So I guess if I never try then I will never experience any of those things, right?

Well, wrong. This work cannot be done alone - or by lurking in the background kinda suspended between worlds. I get your point. But first I need to break a few programs in my own head. And learn how to express myself in a non-dramatic, non-pompous, non-mysterious or plain weird way that cuts straight to the cheese with minimum noise.

Piece of cake. Be right back.

 

[T.C.]

first I need to break a few programs in my own head. And learn how to express myself in a non-dramatic, non-pompous, non-mysterious or plain weird way that cuts straight to the cheese with minimum noise.

Hi adam7117. I can relate to what you said.

Someone once commented on how I seem scared to do things for fear of not getting them perfect. They said, "if you saw a child drowning in a river, would you just stand there from fear that you couldn't do a perfect dive and front crawl, or would you just forget about that nonsense and get going?"

Someone else once said, "you can't steer the car if the wheels aren't turning".

And that age old question applies too: If not NOW, then WHEN?

Hope that's helpful.

 

[slowone]

I am so grateful to Curious Georgia and everyone else on this thread. I feel like so many of you that I haven't progressed enough to contribute intelligently or consistently and therefore I don't.

I am afraid of being criticised and being unable to then either take the criticism in the way it is intended, or perhaps defend myself if the criticism is not fair or accurate. I find myself questioning my use of language and eloquence so much that I become nervous and then give up the posting.

I realise that I need to challenge my Programs and Predators mind but can't seem to step out of the shadows enough to begin. I have never been a member of a forum and also find it challenging to speak to people in a written format rather than hearing the dialogue. I guess that's something I need to get used to too. Along with being more diligent in following other threads, to check I am not duplicating information I do feel that I could do with some beginners pointers as suggested .

I also felt that what Los said was very helpful to me and have quoted it below. This is my first use of a quote so already from this I have progressed a little.

It's been pretty amazing to see the number of new posters in the past year or so. It seems those who remain and stay at least somewhat active are willing to question their programs, particularly those which arise when a group mirror is involved. Honest feedback that reflects the predators mind is quite a different kind of substance to ingest, and it seems there is even a certain amount of preparation that needs to be done before a mirror can be helpful. There also seem to be different types of mirrors. In the introductory period (if someone is not simply trolling), it can be easy for members to point out differences without consideration for where a newer member is coming from. Observations may be valid, but in order for the feedback to be useful a certain amount of work needs to be done. There have been many times in the past months where I felt the tendency to 'correct' some brand new member. Perhaps the observation was partly 'correct' but the context is what's important. Without consideration of the context, it's easy to remain self serving.

I think setting up the forum for different points of knowledge and understanding is a great idea.

I feel ( or one of my I's feels) so sincerely that I want to be part of this forum and Georgia's post spoke so loudly to me about my dilemma that I hope that this is the beginning of a more active phase of contribution not just for me but for all of us.