Raine, Samenow, Fallon: Neuropsychology & The Work

memeontheroof

The Force is Strong With This One
memeontheroof, even I don't have comforting words for you and I don't try to justify your parents my thoughts are that each one of us have to experience suffering situations in life because that's the only way to learn. For me, every situation where I experience pain or any kind of form of suffering is welcome (surely not in that exact moment) because I know that I have opportunity to learn something. IMO, the story of our life goes in stages and if we after every stage manage to look back and see mistakes and 'wrong' decisions we can change our thinking/behavior/life.

And I think that Turgon gave you great advice, we are all in that situation, in the same time we are experiment, but also and the ones that need to experiment. And before you decide to experiment you have amazing books that can give you different perspectives about life.

This thread Not Nice: Stop People Pleasing, Staying Silent, & Feeling Guilty could be something helpful and this book Not Nice: Stop People Pleasing, Staying Silent, & Feeling Guilty... And Start Speaking Up, Saying No, Asking Boldly, And Unapologetically Being Yourself by Aziz Gazipura if you wanna check out.
Thank you Dakota Not Nice Stop People Pleasing, Staying Silent & Feeling Guilty sounds like a definite good read for me. And I have to tell you when I was reading your post about your job and coworkers it was the strangest thing all of a sudden I started typing a reply and before you know it I posted on this forum for the first time . I was a long time lurker. I don't know what I was afraid of but something happened when I read your post it seemed like a dam broke or something . Anyway here I am and happy to be here. When I look back at all the mistakes and 'wrong' decisions in my long life I am thankful for all the amazing people and information on this forum that I can use as a kind of map if that makes sense to head me in the right direction
 

Dakota

Jedi Council Member
Thank you Dakota Not Nice Stop People Pleasing, Staying Silent & Feeling Guilty sounds like a definite good read for me. And I have to tell you when I was reading your post about your job and coworkers it was the strangest thing all of a sudden I started typing a reply and before you know it I posted on this forum for the first time . I was a long time lurker. I don't know what I was afraid of but something happened when I read your post it seemed like a dam broke or something . Anyway here I am and happy to be here. When I look back at all the mistakes and 'wrong' decisions in my long life I am thankful for all the amazing people and information on this forum that I can use as a kind of map if that makes sense to head me in the right direction
Wow, I'm glad that you said that, because the same thing happens to me with some members. It will be interesting research is this something that everyone else experience on forum. And is this 'connection' associated with reincarnation and karmic connections?

I was lurker also for couple of years but then I realize that I MUST get feedback to get rid of false knowledge and start to clean my path to true knowledge. The only way, IMO, is to expose itself and see what will happen.
 

lilies

Jedi Council Member
Reading and finishing the two Samenow books were like finding a fresh fountain of impressions regards The Work, a real treasure! Thank You for recommending them!

I want those DVDs now that deal with the thinking errors, expounded in the last chapter of Inside the Criminal Mind. These books were new, fresh Alarm Clocks (c) G.!
 

Pashalis

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Me too. But that's what I like. It's like lifting weights with my neurons.
Yes, it is one of those rare works where you can feel brilliancy and profound ideas shining through even though you struggle very hard to grasp the deepness of it all. It is one of those books you would like to read again sometime in the future and see if you can grasp more and follow his extensive and demanding reasoning. It is really weightlifting for the mind.
 

SMM

The Living Force
Raine's Anatomy of Violence was a brilliant read, and something like the Lombroso program doesn't sound too far-fetched.

Even through period of three years all this struggles and situation changed me but nothing like The Myth of the Out of Character Crime. Most of the time my face was like this :nuts:. In the ItCM I couldn't identify my self with thinking errors of criminal mind unlike second book that I found my self almost in every thinking errors.
I was planning to read ItCM, then The Myth of the Out of Character Crime. Reverse this order? I was just thinking before checking the thread, about extremes of direct crime exposure being relatively mild, day to day in our area. Recognising thinking errors might be more possible or clearer with The Myth of the Out of Character Crime.
 

SMM

The Living Force
A few days ago I speed-skim read 'The Myth of the Out of Character Crime'. The case histories and thinking errors defined in the book, such as 'secret controllers', were very interesting. This thinking error puts a whole new light on others' heightened senses of or attachment to perfection, especially when reward (and punishment) are thrown into the mix. This shows up with or without the components of shame; without shame, as in one of the example of the individual in the book (I forget his name) who always achieved what he set out to do and ended up resorting to murder in an attempt to win over his girlfriend. There are a few other examples in the book; this one just stood out.

This being said, I haven't read 'Inside the Criminal Mind' yet. As I had reversed the order, 'Inside the Crimina Mind' was next to read. While I was looking for more information on both books contents and Samenow, I came across one of his books with Samuel Yolchelson titled 'The Criminal Mind: The Change Process'. As it presents and evaluates rehabilitation approaches, becoming aware of and addressing thinking errors along the continuum and through phases (though extreme in the criminal), it caught my attention as a really good one to add to the list.

Yolchenson's name came up in a talk Samenow gave on his books on criminal behaviour I'd come across last year. This talk might already be posted on this thread.; it was the first result on YouTube when I searched. Yolchenson was Samenow's mentor and friend, as Samenow writes here. I searched the title 'The Criminal Mind: The Change Process' on Google Books and read some of it on there. It's available on Amazon UK though pricier than Samenow's other works.

As an aside and of lesser overall relevance, I found out Samenow and I share a birthday. A fun fact that made me smile mid-reading.
 

Dakota

Jedi Council Member
SMM, thank you for recommendation.

I have learned a lot from "Inside the Criminal Mind" & "The Myth of the Out of Character Crime", knowledge that was very helpful in my working environment which is full of guys with criminal way of thinking. Since I knew some basic to explain to my self why they thinking or acting like criminals I could observe them more objectively (probably) and not feeling angry or sad because I have to witness they acts. And I even try to tease them:"Come on guys, you're just a petty criminals, stealing food, drinks and little bit of money from the man that owns a millions. If you're real men you should become hackers or professional criminals and steal some big money." And I'm aware that my teasing was just passive aggressive way to deal with them. But on the other hand, I do think that best way to learn about criminal mind of thinking is to be in that kind of environment. Not just about others, about my self.

IMO, my level of understanding of this subject is proportional with my level of restlessness about it. The more I learn and understand I have more peace in myself.

And yes, there is three books:
-https://www.amazon.com/Criminal-Personality-Profile-Change/dp/1568211058?tag=duckduckgo-d-20
The Criminal Personality, Volume I: A Profile for Change
The Criminal Personality presents a detailed description of criminal thinking and action patterns and convincingly argues that these patterns cannot be explained by sociologic or psychologic explanations alone.
-https://www.amazon.com/Criminal-Personality-II-Change-Process/dp/1568213492?tag=duckduckgo-d-20
The Criminal Personality, Volume II: The Change Process
This is the second of a three volume landmark study of the criminal mind. This book describes an intensive therapeutic approach designed to completely change the criminals way of thinking. The authors reject traditional treatment approaches as reinforcing of the criminals sense of being a victim of society. Rather Yochelson and Samenow stress that the criminal must make a choice to give up criminal thinking and learn morality.
-https://www.amazon.com/Criminal-Personality-Drug-User-III/dp/1568212445?tag=duckduckgo-d-20
The Criminal Personality: The Drug User, Volume III
Yochelson and Samenow attribute crime to a series of early irresponsible choices that predate drug use among drug-using criminals. Personality and personal choice variables are conceptualized as critical in initialing and maintaining use. In what is called an indiscriminate search for excitement, drug-using criminals are characterized as expanding their criminal repertoire while excusing their actions by rationalizations sometimes invented by sociologists, psychologists, and psychiatrists. Although these ideas are of considerable interest, the real value of the text lies in its intriguing presentation of drug-user thinking.
 

SMM

The Living Force
SMM, thank you for recommendation.

I have learned a lot from "Inside the Criminal Mind" & "The Myth of the Out of Character Crime", knowledge that was very helpful in my working environment which is full of guys with criminal way of thinking. Since I knew some basic to explain to my self why they thinking or acting like criminals I could observe them more objectively (probably) and not feeling angry or sad because I have to witness they acts. And I even try to tease them:"Come on guys, you're just a petty criminals, stealing food, drinks and little bit of money from the man that owns a millions. If you're real men you should become hackers or professional criminals and steal some big money." And I'm aware that my teasing was just passive aggressive way to deal with them. But on the other hand, I do think that best way to learn about criminal mind of thinking is to be in that kind of environment. Not just about others, about my self.

IMO, my level of understanding of this subject is proportional with my level of restlessness about it. The more I learn and understand I have more peace in myself.

And yes, there is three books:
-https://www.amazon.com/Criminal-Personality-Profile-Change/dp/1568211058?tag=duckduckgo-d-20
The Criminal Personality, Volume I: A Profile for Change

-https://www.amazon.com/Criminal-Personality-II-Change-Process/dp/1568213492?tag=duckduckgo-d-20
The Criminal Personality, Volume II: The Change Process

-https://www.amazon.com/Criminal-Personality-Drug-User-III/dp/1568212445?tag=duckduckgo-d-20
The Criminal Personality: The Drug User, Volume III

Yup, those are the ones. Thank you, Dakota.

If you do get a chance to read these, I recommend them.

I've been reading Volume I and II over the past week and they have offered a lot of insight. There are more case study excerpts in them like Leroy's from Inside the Criminal Mind.

In my case particularly, they've given me a gut-wrenching visceral response. There's a mirror or window into my own experiences of which I will share on here, despite a fear it's noise. If it might help others learn, it's worth sharing.

Finding Samenow's (et al.) works has been like answered prayers for me, in some sense. The burning questions of is change (lasting change if free will and choice are engaged) possible and how does it take place have been addressed in great detail.

In the back of the first volume, Chapter 8: Tactics Obstructing Effective Transactions, it refers to Clerkey's (The Mask of Sanity and The Caricature of Love) conclusion made in the 60's that change [of criminal thinking patterns from criminal to responsible] is not possible. Through their trial and error approach of the program, they observed that it was.

I wonder if Samenow did longitudinal follow up with successful candidates of the program?

Earlier this year, I started reading David Garland's Culture of Control, which speaks more to the changing face of crime (cultural and sociological factors in late-modernitt i.e. 20th century). There's something in there that makes me think about the normalisation of thinking errors and systematic erosion of traditional community values and health during the 20th century that's contributed to how things are today. When he speaks about the increase in CCTVs, TVs and modern technology, I couldn't help but think of the effects such devices had and still have on health as a whole, from hormonal dysregulation to neurological. Not saying they are bad in and of themselves, though without awareness, they can impact our thinking, especially System 1. If you get a chance to have a look at The Culture of Control, it's one worth looking at IMO.

I also started The Righteous Mind. Yet to finish it. After reading more of Samenow (I haven't read Inside the Criminal Mind yet, working up to it), I want to seize greater control over my variable reading speed (sometimes really fast, other times less so) and re-read Healing Developmental Trauma, finish The Righteous Mind, The Culture of Control and Inside the Criminal Mind.

Not to mention the books in the evolution series i.e. Darwin's Black Box, Evolution 2.0, and parapsychology i.e. First Sight and Strange Contagion. One step at a time.

Another question is if these change programs still run and how they're progressing as The Criminal Personality volumes were written in the 70s.
 
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