Raine, Samenow, Fallon: Neuropsychology & The Work

[memeontheroof]

memeontheroof, even I don't have comforting words for you and I don't try to justify your parents my thoughts are that each one of us have to experience suffering situations in life because that's the only way to learn. For me, every situation where I experience pain or any kind of form of suffering is welcome (surely not in that exact moment) because I know that I have opportunity to learn something. IMO, the story of our life goes in stages and if we after every stage manage to look back and see mistakes and 'wrong' decisions we can change our thinking/behavior/life.

And I think that Turgon gave you great advice, we are all in that situation, in the same time we are experiment, but also and the ones that need to experiment. And before you decide to experiment you have amazing books that can give you different perspectives about life.

This thread Not Nice: Stop People Pleasing, Staying Silent, & Feeling Guilty could be something helpful and this book Not Nice: Stop People Pleasing, Staying Silent, & Feeling Guilty... And Start Speaking Up, Saying No, Asking Boldly, And Unapologetically Being Yourself by Aziz Gazipura if you wanna check out.

Thank you Dakota Not Nice Stop People Pleasing, Staying Silent & Feeling Guilty sounds like a definite good read for me. And I have to tell you when I was reading your post about your job and coworkers it was the strangest thing all of a sudden I started typing a reply and before you know it I posted on this forum for the first time . I was a long time lurker. I don't know what I was afraid of but something happened when I read your post it seemed like a dam broke or something . Anyway here I am and happy to be here. When I look back at all the mistakes and 'wrong' decisions in my long life I am thankful for all the amazing people and information on this forum that I can use as a kind of map if that makes sense to head me in the right direction

 

[Anamarija]

Thank you Dakota Not Nice Stop People Pleasing, Staying Silent & Feeling Guilty sounds like a definite good read for me. And I have to tell you when I was reading your post about your job and coworkers it was the strangest thing all of a sudden I started typing a reply and before you know it I posted on this forum for the first time . I was a long time lurker. I don't know what I was afraid of but something happened when I read your post it seemed like a dam broke or something . Anyway here I am and happy to be here. When I look back at all the mistakes and 'wrong' decisions in my long life I am thankful for all the amazing people and information on this forum that I can use as a kind of map if that makes sense to head me in the right direction

Wow, I'm glad that you said that, because the same thing happens to me with some members. It will be interesting research is this something that everyone else experience on forum. And is this 'connection' associated with reincarnation and karmic connections?

I was lurker also for couple of years but then I realize that I MUST get feedback to get rid of false knowledge and start to clean my path to true knowledge. The only way, IMO, is to expose itself and see what will happen.

 

[lilies]

Reading and finishing the two Samenow books were like finding a fresh fountain of impressions regards The Work, a real treasure! Thank You for recommending them!

I want those DVDs now that deal with the thinking errors, expounded in the last chapter of Inside the Criminal Mind. These books were new, fresh Alarm Clocks (c) G.!

 

[Cosmos]

Me too. But that's what I like. It's like lifting weights with my neurons.

Yes, it is one of those rare works where you can feel brilliancy and profound ideas shining through even though you struggle very hard to grasp the deepness of it all. It is one of those books you would like to read again sometime in the future and see if you can grasp more and follow his extensive and demanding reasoning. It is really weightlifting for the mind.

 

[SMM]

Raine's Anatomy of Violence was a brilliant read, and something like the Lombroso program doesn't sound too far-fetched.

Even through period of three years all this struggles and situation changed me but nothing like The Myth of the Out of Character Crime. Most of the time my face was like this . In the ItCM I couldn't identify my self with thinking errors of criminal mind unlike second book that I found my self almost in every thinking errors.

I was planning to read ItCM, then The Myth of the Out of Character Crime. Reverse this order? I was just thinking before checking the thread, about extremes of direct crime exposure being relatively mild, day to day in our area. Recognising thinking errors might be more possible or clearer with The Myth of the Out of Character Crime.

 

[SMM]

A few days ago I speed-skim read 'The Myth of the Out of Character Crime'. The case histories and thinking errors defined in the book, such as 'secret controllers', were very interesting. This thinking error puts a whole new light on others' heightened senses of or attachment to perfection, especially when reward (and punishment) are thrown into the mix. This shows up with or without the components of shame; without shame, as in one of the example of the individual in the book (I forget his name) who always achieved what he set out to do and ended up resorting to murder in an attempt to win over his girlfriend. There are a few other examples in the book; this one just stood out.

This being said, I haven't read 'Inside the Criminal Mind' yet. As I had reversed the order, 'Inside the Crimina Mind' was next to read. While I was looking for more information on both books contents and Samenow, I came across one of his books with Samuel Yolchelson titled 'The Criminal Mind: The Change Process'. As it presents and evaluates rehabilitation approaches, becoming aware of and addressing thinking errors along the continuum and through phases (though extreme in the criminal), it caught my attention as a really good one to add to the list.

Yolchenson's name came up in a talk Samenow gave on his books on criminal behaviour I'd come across last year. This talk might already be posted on this thread.; it was the first result on YouTube when I searched. Yolchenson was Samenow's mentor and friend, as Samenow writes here. I searched the title 'The Criminal Mind: The Change Process' on Google Books and read some of it on there. It's available on Amazon UK though pricier than Samenow's other works.

As an aside and of lesser overall relevance, I found out Samenow and I share a birthday. A fun fact that made me smile mid-reading.

 

[SMM]

EDIT: The title is 'The Criminal Personality'
: The Change Process', not 'The Criminal Mind: ...'. It is the second volume of three books.

 

[Anamarija]

SMM, thank you for recommendation.

I have learned a lot from "Inside the Criminal Mind" & "The Myth of the Out of Character Crime", knowledge that was very helpful in my working environment which is full of guys with criminal way of thinking. Since I knew some basic to explain to my self why they thinking or acting like criminals I could observe them more objectively (probably) and not feeling angry or sad because I have to witness they acts. And I even try to tease them:"Come on guys, you're just a petty criminals, stealing food, drinks and little bit of money from the man that owns a millions. If you're real men you should become hackers or professional criminals and steal some big money." And I'm aware that my teasing was just passive aggressive way to deal with them. But on the other hand, I do think that best way to learn about criminal mind of thinking is to be in that kind of environment. Not just about others, about my self.

IMO, my level of understanding of this subject is proportional with my level of restlessness about it. The more I learn and understand I have more peace in myself.

And yes, there is three books:
-https://www.amazon.com/Criminal-Personality-Profile-Change/dp/1568211058?tag=duckduckgo-d-20
The Criminal Personality, Volume I: A Profile for Change

The Criminal Personality presents a detailed description of criminal thinking and action patterns and convincingly argues that these patterns cannot be explained by sociologic or psychologic explanations alone.

-https://www.amazon.com/Criminal-Personality-II-Change-Process/dp/1568213492?tag=duckduckgo-d-20
The Criminal Personality, Volume II: The Change Process

This is the second of a three volume landmark study of the criminal mind. This book describes an intensive therapeutic approach designed to completely change the criminals way of thinking. The authors reject traditional treatment approaches as reinforcing of the criminals sense of being a victim of society. Rather Yochelson and Samenow stress that the criminal must make a choice to give up criminal thinking and learn morality.

-https://www.amazon.com/Criminal-Personality-Drug-User-III/dp/1568212445?tag=duckduckgo-d-20
The Criminal Personality: The Drug User, Volume III

Yochelson and Samenow attribute crime to a series of early irresponsible choices that predate drug use among drug-using criminals. Personality and personal choice variables are conceptualized as critical in initialing and maintaining use. In what is called an indiscriminate search for excitement, drug-using criminals are characterized as expanding their criminal repertoire while excusing their actions by rationalizations sometimes invented by sociologists, psychologists, and psychiatrists. Although these ideas are of considerable interest, the real value of the text lies in its intriguing presentation of drug-user thinking.

 

[SMM]

SMM, thank you for recommendation.

I have learned a lot from "Inside the Criminal Mind" & "The Myth of the Out of Character Crime", knowledge that was very helpful in my working environment which is full of guys with criminal way of thinking. Since I knew some basic to explain to my self why they thinking or acting like criminals I could observe them more objectively (probably) and not feeling angry or sad because I have to witness they acts. And I even try to tease them:"Come on guys, you're just a petty criminals, stealing food, drinks and little bit of money from the man that owns a millions. If you're real men you should become hackers or professional criminals and steal some big money." And I'm aware that my teasing was just passive aggressive way to deal with them. But on the other hand, I do think that best way to learn about criminal mind of thinking is to be in that kind of environment. Not just about others, about my self.

IMO, my level of understanding of this subject is proportional with my level of restlessness about it. The more I learn and understand I have more peace in myself.

And yes, there is three books:
-https://www.amazon.com/Criminal-Personality-Profile-Change/dp/1568211058?tag=duckduckgo-d-20
The Criminal Personality, Volume I: A Profile for Change

-https://www.amazon.com/Criminal-Personality-II-Change-Process/dp/1568213492?tag=duckduckgo-d-20
The Criminal Personality, Volume II: The Change Process

-https://www.amazon.com/Criminal-Personality-Drug-User-III/dp/1568212445?tag=duckduckgo-d-20
The Criminal Personality: The Drug User, Volume III

Yup, those are the ones. Thank you, Dakota.

If you do get a chance to read these, I recommend them.

I've been reading Volume I and II over the past week and they have offered a lot of insight. There are more case study excerpts in them like Leroy's from Inside the Criminal Mind.

In my case particularly, they've given me a gut-wrenching visceral response. There's a mirror or window into my own experiences of which I will share on here, despite a fear it's noise. If it might help others learn, it's worth sharing.

Finding Samenow's (et al.) works has been like answered prayers for me, in some sense. The burning questions of is change (lasting change if free will and choice are engaged) possible and how does it take place have been addressed in great detail.

In the back of the first volume, Chapter 8: Tactics Obstructing Effective Transactions, it refers to Clerkey's (The Mask of Sanity and The Caricature of Love) conclusion made in the 60's that change [of criminal thinking patterns from criminal to responsible] is not possible. Through their trial and error approach of the program, they observed that it was.

I wonder if Samenow did longitudinal follow up with successful candidates of the program?

Earlier this year, I started reading David Garland's Culture of Control, which speaks more to the changing face of crime (cultural and sociological factors in late-modernitt i.e. 20th century). There's something in there that makes me think about the normalisation of thinking errors and systematic erosion of traditional community values and health during the 20th century that's contributed to how things are today. When he speaks about the increase in CCTVs, TVs and modern technology, I couldn't help but think of the effects such devices had and still have on health as a whole, from hormonal dysregulation to neurological. Not saying they are bad in and of themselves, though without awareness, they can impact our thinking, especially System 1. If you get a chance to have a look at The Culture of Control, it's one worth looking at IMO.

I also started The Righteous Mind. Yet to finish it. After reading more of Samenow (I haven't read Inside the Criminal Mind yet, working up to it), I want to seize greater control over my variable reading speed (sometimes really fast, other times less so) and re-read Healing Developmental Trauma, finish The Righteous Mind, The Culture of Control and Inside the Criminal Mind.

Not to mention the books in the evolution series i.e. Darwin's Black Box, Evolution 2.0, and parapsychology i.e. First Sight and Strange Contagion. One step at a time.

Another question is if these change programs still run and how they're progressing as The Criminal Personality volumes were written in the 70s.

 

[Matthew]

On a whim I started reading "The Myth of the Out of Character Crime" and was delighted to find it to be such an easy read. Mr Samenow, he write good. I do not have any stunning observations to add so far from what I have read but just wanted to note my appreciation for the book, for him (he strikes me as someone I would very much like to meet to talk with) and for the fine people here who kindly recommended it.

 

[Matthew]

On a whim I started reading "The Myth of the Out of Character Crime" and was delighted to find it to be such an easy read. Mr Samenow, he write good. I do not have any stunning observations to add so far from what I have read but just wanted to note my appreciation for the book, for him (he strikes me as someone I would very much like to meet to talk with) and for the fine people here who kindly recommended it.

I have finished this now and have moved onto "Whoever Fights Monsters". Samenow's book was an uncomfortable read in parts because I could recognise the 'thinking errors' in myself (especially a younger me but not exclusively so) and people I know, including close family members. WFM was an uncomfortable start due to the grisly nature of the first chapter. I am finding reading them to be helpful though so am grateful that they have been recommended.

 

[Matthew]

I have finished WFM now thankfully. Not because it's a bad book, far from it, but because it was affecting me mentally and emotionally. I started to think about how I would go about being a serial killer and it made me feel dirty and debased. I was going to go straight onto one of the other books discussed ITT because it is such a fascinating subject but I think that I need to give myself a bit of a break from it. God knows how those that deal with such matters on a daily basis cope with it.

 

[Matthew]

Well so much for that plan. A reference to Samenow in a SOTT article I read yesterday lead me to start "Inside the Criminal Mind". Great stuff so far. Early on he states that people tend to react to this material like a medical student, attributing the criminal disease to themselves. Glad it's not just me! Now I am starting to think about my own thinking errors in the past and now more positively and looking to address them more responsibly. Who knew books that are so easy reading would lead to 'work' on oneself?! Oh and I started reading "In Search of the Miraculous" for a bit of light relief .

 

[beetlemaniac]

I'm sorry but I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I thought I'd post my own self-observations based on my re-reading of Inside the Criminal Mind.

I made some notes on the areas where I think I have issues and that I need to address from the book:

• Entitlement
• Maudlin sentiment: self-pitying emotions and thought
• Lying to protect ones self-image of being special or powerful - also delusional thinking
• Viewing/treating other people as pawns to manipulate any means to achieve the desired end being acceptable
  • e.g. perceiving other work colleagues as of lower intellectual capacity, arrogance.
• Failure to take into account the feelings of others
  • e.g. during a decision-making process with others, when there seems to be not sufficient data maybe it is wiser to focus about how others feel about a situation rather than just stay stuck on my own view of things. To be more heart-centered.
  • e.g. FOTCM prayer meetings where I constantly complained about my life expecting more pity and feedback
• Anger
  • e.g. simmering with anger, towards boss at work, towards parents, towards FOTCM members, all seemed to be happening below my awareness. After becoming aware of this, it seems to have reduced.
  • e.g. infuriated at people who don't conform to my desires, unable to control them, again with awareness these emotions are much reduced.
• Wanting something but not putting in the effort or paying lip-service about being responsible, with integrity or any number of positive values.
• Believing that I am unique and special, that the rules that apply to everyone in society do not apply to me
• Resenting having to fulfil the requirements that others impose
  • I used to hate doing homework, mom would always check on me and I would be in fear of being found out
  • I tend to delay or defer work that can be done right now
• My behavior at work seems to drive people away from me
  • Learn to be more balanced and helpful - emotional center activation seems key in a lot of these issues - criminals and psychopaths have the problem of faulty connection between their amygdala and prefrontal cortex.
  • Loners who do not permit others to get too close because they have much to hide. Focused on themselves, they have no concept of the reciprocity and empathy that is necessary to foster relationships. Love, trust, loyalty and friendship are absent from their lives.
• Asking for advice but internally dismissive about it. Thinking at the level of a child. It is becoming more obvious that I've been complaining about my life a lot but doing nothing to change it.
• Extreme impulsivity, wanting everything now

It's just a pick of things from what I think are a vast morass of related pathological thinking and feeling, Wetiko virus inspired behavior.

I welcome a mirror and feedback especially on how I could perhaps work on myself so that I can become a better and more effective person at work and more useful to others, though I admit that like everyone, our situations are unique and our lessons are so specific to our personal situations that it's a little hard for anyone to provide help without a detailed and specific situational analysis, osit.

Anyhow, I thought I'd just post this up rather than keep it held back and trying to think my way through it while having to deal with a currently very uncertain period at work with a new assignment coming up next week. Thank you all and appreciate the space provided here to talk about what I'm learning so far.

Any book suggestions would be appreciated - it was suggested in the thread to read Whoever Fights Monsters, The Psychopath Inside: A Neuroscientist's Personal Journey into the Dark Side of the Brain.

I have also read Anatomy of Violence by Adrian Raine but that was around the time I first read Inside the Criminal Mind, perhaps around the time the thread for it was just started in 2017. In a post on that thread Laura had mentioned how this book along with The Psychopath Inside compared to Inside the Criminal Mind - where Samenow focuses on individual responsibility and how change is possible on the basis of the individual's free will, transcending biological and other factors.

 

[PlatonicSkeptic]

Re: Raine, Samenow, Fallon: Neuropsychology

I am a third of the way through Anatomy of Violence. One point which stood out for me so far was the section dedicated to the "Warrior" gene, monoamine oxidase-A. For those unfamiliar with this gene, it codes for a enzyme (MAO-A) which breaks down dopamine, serotonin and noradrenaline. If there is a defect/polymorphism here, then the enzyme may slow down, meaning that the can be "excess" levels of these neurochemicals in the brain. This can predispose someone to aggressive and antisocial behaviours.


I think the reason this interested me so much was because I personally have a defect in that gene, which means that I have a harder time breaking the chemicals down, and ultimately am "predisposed" to aggression. As a child, consistent feedback from my parents was that I would often behave aggressively toward them.

This has always been a prominent feature for me, all up until I came across Laura's work and began attempting to change my ways of thinking and behaving. I think I have made much progress in this regard, and the aggression is no longer a common issue in my relationships. So, as per my experience, I am "proof" that a genetic predisposition can be bypassed through sustained effort, awareness and a willingness to change. Also changing my diet and lifestyle probably helped in.

However, the on the days where I do not get adequate sleep, or when I consistently eat crap, or when I am going through an intensely stressful period, the aggression can quite easily manifest. This is something I try to keep a close eye on, because my genetics will probably always draw me toward that end!

no, both MAO-A and SERT variants with higher functioning are correlated with violence not the other way around(AFAIK)


about fallon I'll probably be "disliked" for saying that he's using charlatanism to sell books which is DANGEROUS misinformation, you're free to believe otherwise and i can see where you're coming from but i can also see his agenda being VERY colinear to big pharma