Re: The Black Madonna


A Disturbance in the Force
Mmmm...the Black Madonna. Well, first off, I will throw the mundane out there. "She is black because she is black"..Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. BUT as we all surely know, there is always something more to it.

With anything on this strange path, even with the C's transcripts, it always means what it means, and it ALWAYS means something more. It's like there are several layers of truth that are all true at the same time going from the mundane manifestation to the higher level abstract. It is all one thing, but at different levels. And often the mundane serves as a clue to something deeper.

Black Madonna? A very direct symbol of the dark matter, the unconscious, the hidden realm from which all things are born...and the part that upsets us is that this is also the place where all things return.

It's like we don't want to accept that part of the cycle. She is alchemical, she is shamanistic, she is the fire, the burning that we must endure before something greater is born. She is the one that destroys, yes, but in order to make way for new life. She is the one that guides our souls through the dark places and prepares us for rebirth.

Lines on the face..I do believe there is also a Czech. version with a scar on her face. She has been wounded. Which is in total keeping with the path of the shaman and the cycle of death and rebirth.

I wonder, too, if she is wounded because as an archetype, as a part of our collective psyche, we have shoved her so far down. We fear and despise everything about her. The death she represents. The terrifying nature of that which will not be controlled. That which we have no power over. And that least modern death.

We want to control. We want to control nature. We want to control death. Some even say the fear of Her goes back to the utter dependency we had as infants on Mother. Her ability at a whim to either give or take love...and thereby our very survival away.

She is everything we fear because we no longer see life as a cycle. We no longer see her as a necessary part of that cycle. We love the virgin and mother, but the crone! Which is what she ultimately represents. Although with the promise of new life.

Lines across her face because she was ashamed? Or lines across her face because we have shamed her?

But any thing especially any archetype we as a collective repress only becomes more fierce and aggressive in its expression because we push it to the realm of unnatural. I guess it builds up steam.

It is considered that the repression of this aspect of the cycle of life is one of the reasons for so much war and aggressive behavior. It's like we are constantly trying to purge ourselves of death by putting it on others. Thereby being the master of it.

Magdalene...which is alluded to in these black madonnas as is sheba and on back to isis. So there is obviously something more ancient at work here than 1st century ad. Not to mention medieval times. Something these wily ones were trying to communicate.

It is said that simon the magus was actually the next in line to carry on john the baptists' work. that he was the favorite of j.b. Point is, that if you remember the magus paraded through the towns with his Helen. She was black, and not metaphorically. She danced in chains. She was his lover as the story goes. But she was also a representive of the...creative principle....the dark mother..being repressed. Held in chains, though she still danced.

How glorious it might be to unchain her. Or! it could have represented the need to..keep it in balance. To not let the overwhelming power of that other realm destroy. Because unchecked, without discipline and training, it can destroy. Which one simon was after, i'm not sure. lol.


The Living Force
A notice on St. Lawrence. My childhood Roman catholic church, was named after him; Sct. Laurentii, it held a bone splinter relic of him in the altar (or was it a scorpio tail?) It was said that before he was grilled and cried out, he was whipped with scorpions, just thougth I'd mention it as scorpios esotericly could be said to be veil (of tears) piercers.

from _
When Laurence was arrested and brought before the Prefect, he was questioned concerning the treasures of the Church; he asked for three days' time to prepare them. He then proceeded to gather all the poor and needy, and presented them to the Prefect and said, "Behold the treasures of the Church." The Prefect became enraged at this and gave command that Laurence be racked, then scourged with scorpions (a whip furnished with sharp iron points - compare II Chron. 10:11), then stretched out on a red-hot iron grill

I always thougth he was whipped with live scorpions, or so it was told, it may be another symbolic encased clue eitherway.


The Force is Strong With This One
Hello at all! :)

Valhöll – the tomb-womb

" Óðinn’s hall, Valhöll, is equivalent to Freyja’s Fólkvangur. Could Valhöll have existed before the war? The reappearing word val in the Islandic myths cannot be overlooked. Freyja’s bird is valur, her priestesses are vala/völva and valkyrja, and her consort Óðinn is called Valfaðir in Völuspá and he reigns in Valhöll, where the valur (the slain warriors) gather after death and before rebirth. So let’s take one more close look at this re-appearing word and/or prefix –val-.

Val is found in words for something round, like in vala, völva and völur, something evolving and turning (see more on this in the chapter on völva below). Valur is ‘falcon’, also called fálki, and we see a correlation to that in Sámi where a falcon is called falle or valli. The slain in the battlefield are also called valur, probably related to the IE *uel and Latin vellere, which both mean ‘to tear apart’. This IE root *uel is also at the base of vulva, völur, vala and völva, there it means to bend or turn. Ásgeir B. Magnússon (1989) finds it unlikely that valur/fálki is from that same root, vellere and *uel, whereas I here assume that it may well be.

Val can also refer to ‘choice’ or ‘to choose’. Val-höll is the hall or palace of the slain, the fallen warriors, or the chosen ones. Or is it? When we look closer at this word we find that like Fólkvangur, Valhöll could very well have had an earlier existence, before the war. Let’s look at the word höll (palace, hall). Höll is of the same root and meaning as hóll (hill), hol (hall, hollow), hellir (hollow, cave), hulin (hidden), Hulda (hidden one), Holla, hell and Hel (Ásgeir B. Magnússon, 1989). The image reflected from all these words and names is in fact an empty, enveloping space, a tomb or womb.

So from this we see that Valhöll can mean ‘the round cave’, or ‘the hall of the vulture or falcon’, or ‘the hollow vulva’ or ‘the hidden round place’ or ‘ the evolving space’ or ‘the chosen hall’ etc. Whichever of these translations we choose, Valhöll is a tomb-womb space, it is the Goddess’ womb of regeneration. Hel has the same meaning. It is a hollow place, or the goddess of that hollow place. Hel is half-blue (or black) and half-white, which shows well her regeneratrix nature. We can assume that there was a time when Hel and Valhöll were the same, or Hel was the goddess of Valhöll, the womb lying in Freyja’s fertile Fólkvangur (Valley of the Dead).

Now let’s also look a little closer at val-kyrja. Val means choice, among all the other things, and so does ‘kyrja’. Most scholars maintain that valkyrja is combined of valur (slain) and kyrja (choose), meaning ‘the one who chooses the slain’. But kyrja also means to ‘sing in a strong voice’, coming from Greek kyrios (lord), so it really means the voice of God - or Goddess-. Valkyrja could therefore be the singing falcon, the one who sings the song of death. In today’s world “a swan-song” means the last song, the song of death, and the “song” of the falcon’s sister, the owl, is a well-known death omen.

I am fully aware that kyrja in valkyrja is most likely of another root than kyrios, voice of the Goddess. Valkyrja is the same word as the Old English wælcyrge (Davidson, 1964, p.62), but I use this reflection here to move into the dream dance and look at things from another perspective, naked.The song of the falcon, alias Freyja, could have been a death song, at the same time announcing a new life, and therefore the singing valkyrja, is the one who chooses, not only the slain warriors, but all the dead to be reborn. Óðinn, whose name is probably the same as Óður, is the song or poem of life, as well as fury and madness. Óður is the song and life force of the goddess. By the time their task has been diminished to dividing the slain warriors among themselves, Freyja in her longing for her lost song, weeps tears of red gold." - The Saga of Vanadis,Völva and Valkyrja Images of the Divine from the Memory of an Islandic Women by Valgerður Hjördís Bjarnadóttir (h tt p://

This book was for a long time for free as a pdf download direct from the authorshomepage,but now i am not sure,i can not find the link for the download on this site,i can find the pdf only over google,maybe now the book is really only avaible on Amazon and co and it is more "a old failure" that you can download the book from the homepage? On the other side,the homepage is work in progress and some contents are only in the icelandic version of this homepage.I am confused. :huh:

In addition to the other articles here about Hel,here a little article about Hludana or Hlu-dana
h tt p://

Hludana -> Hulda/Hulla -> Holda/Holle -> Hölda/Hälda -> Hel/Hela

1. In old Germany and for different places it gave the Helways,this were ways for the dead to holy places,or this helways were connected to holy places,we can find this Helways in northwestern direction in Germany and in the Netherlands.One Place which seems connected to the Helways is the Exsternsteine.In the Mythology,we have the Helvegr,the Way to the Realm of the Goddess Hel over the bridge Gjallarbru protected by the maiden/giantess Modgudr.Modgudr(norse) means as a typical interpretation "zorniger Kampf" in german or "angry/furious fight" in english,another very interesting interpretation is "the maiden which vexed the mind" to describe it.That is very interesting,maybe a good picture for the fear of the death.So makes another idea/interpretation for me more sense,the idea that i have read in the internet,Modgudr as the "the (female) enemy of the gods".The feeling of fear which penetrates the mind. And from another view,fear is a odd thing for a warrior society. Or from the old shamanistic view,the fear,the emotion (female principle) that goes through the body and mind before the shaman makes his out of body experience in the otherworld and so he goes to the terrible dying process and the emotion is his worst enemy in this moment. Or he is complete furious,but more in the sense of a ecstatic condition,this could be bad und good,or terrible and nice at the same moment.

2a. For the teutonic people the Helway was is a word for the Milky Way,what i find interesting other says the same with Freyja and that the stellar constellation Orion was called by the Teutons Freyas or Friggas gown.

Here is another strange thing with the constellation Orion,but i have no more information about
this gigantic hunter figure with a expansion over the complete irish island :
h tt p://

2b. It gives in german an interesting article by a little crazy guy with interesting ideas.He is a professional for languages and was trying to recreate meanings in the oldhighgermanic language and for him,the uncensored oldhighgermanic language,not the censored through church and co, is a key to all other languages,he says in his interpretation Hel is the word for the outer space. And that Anu/Ana means female ancestor and Mariana or later Maria means the great female ancestor.
And he says,that in the beginning Yule was a festival which was celebrated for the ancestors that came from heaven.And he connects the month names with the stellar constellation of the bear or great bear.But i think,it has not so much to do with the great bear in the sense of the outer space,more with the goddess or beargoddess and her benevolent gifts for the old societys,and the other think is,the old calendarsystems are strong connected to the moon and moonphases and we have 13 moonphases in the year,so in some areas we find traces that 13 was a lucky number und a importent number,later under the church we have the 13 as a bad number and we have than in the myths the bad 13th fairy,in the sense of a resentful and wicked witch.

Here I have played with the names and have searched for other Goddesses in Europe and Asia and how all this Goddesses means in the end the same und came in the endffeckt from the same root or the same name oder have to do with the same Goddess.Later with the one or another name from other parts of the world.

Anu - Danu - Dana - Don - Dione - Ammu/Ammit - Domnu - Donn - Dan - Danae - Danaan - Turan - Danu-ana - Ana - Aine - Anaan - Anna - Diana - Dinna - Nana - Nane - Anaye - Ananse - Annanin - Tana - Inanna - Anaitis - Vanadis (Frea) - Anitan - Anahita - Anaites - Tanit - Anahid - Anachita - Anath - Tiamat - Nath – Nut -Anathu - Anu Mathar - Kali Ma - Ananta - Aditi - Atimiti - Artimiti - Artemis - Artimpasa/Argimpasa - Al-lat/Alitta - Athene/Athena (Anat-Ana - Athana - Athanu - a-ta-na-po-ti-ni-ja - Athina) - Tara - Tala - Papatuanuku - Kunapipi - Kuanyin/Kannon - Bhawani - Krasopani - Papa - Quamait´s - Hina - Aataensic - Pachamama - Izanami - Morg-ana/Morrigan/Morrigu - Brigit/Brighid/Saint Bridget/Brig-ana – Tianhou – Hel/Hlu-Dana/Hulda/Holda/Holle

Very interesting to the the wandering of the name or later how one name goes in another name or one tribe/folk becames the same goddess under a new name or with new/different functions and than we have hundred of names and goddesses.

Aaron r

Jedi Master
Just as an aside, there is a polish order called The Pauline Fathers whose name is taken from St Paul the First Hermit. They "worship" a Black Madonna called Our Lady of Czestochowa. cheers.
Michael P. Duricy is the Information and Multimedia Coordinator for The Marian Library/International Marian Research Institute, University of Dayton. He examined the origin of the Black Madonnas.
I extract the most important parts of the text here:

[...] The meaning of Black Madonna used here refers to a type of Marian statue or painting of mainly medieval origin (12C-15C), of dark or black features whose exact origins are not always easy to determine, and most important, of particular prominence. The latter, the prominence of the Black Madonna, is mostly due to the allegedly miraculous character of the image. [...]

History of the Black Madonna Genre

Important early studies of dark images in France were done by: Marie Durand-Lefebvre (1937); Emile Saillens (1945); and Jacques Huynen (1972). The first notable study of the origin and meaning of the so-called Black Madonnas in English appears to have been presented by Leonard Moss at a meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science on Dec. 28, 1952. Amazingly, all the images in Moss' study had a reputation for miracles. Based on a study of nearly one hundred samples from various parts of the world, Moss broke the images into three categories:

1) dark brown or black madonnas with physiognomy and skin pigmentation matching that of the indigenous population.

2) various art forms that have turned black as a result of certain physical factors such as:
deterioration of lead-based pigments;
accumulated smoke from the use of votive candles; and accumulation of grime over the ages.

3) residual category with no ready explanation.

That a certain percentage of black images falls into the first group seems self-evident. For example, negroid features accompany dark color in African images. This trait is also apparent in many of the ethnic crèches in the Marian Library collection. Also, the famous image of Our Lady of Guadalupe from Mexico [at right], though not particularly dark, was included in this class by Moss.

The second explanation is frequently cited by Catholic non-experts in relation to particular images. Though overused, it certainly applies to a certain percentage of Black Madonnas. The famous statue of Our Lady of the Hermits in Einsiedeln, Switzerland illustrates this phenomenon. After evacuation to Austria in 1798 to escape the designs of Napoleon when the Madonna was returned in 1803, she was found to have been cleaned during her stay in Bludenz. It was promptly decided that she should be restored to her wonted blackness before being exposed once more to the gaze of the faithful.

Similarly, the statue of Our Lady of Altötting was rescued from the ravaging of the church by flame in the year 907. This might account for the darkened features, though Moss has his doubts. If not the image at Altötting, other Black Madonnas were certainly altered in appearance after 'miraculous' rescues from burning churches.

After accounting for images which fall into the first two categories, we are left with a number of black madonnas still requiring explanation. As Moss notes: "It is difficult to rule out artistic license." In the absence of texts stating the artist's intent, only speculation is possible. However, assuming that some of the images were darkened intentionally, we may attempt some explanations.
There seem to be two particularly strong theories.

The first is that the images were darkened to illustrate a text from the Song of Songs: "I am black but beautiful" [Negra sum sed formosa]. In support of this theory, note that many of the black madonnas exist in France, and date from around the time of the crusades, when Bernard of Clairvaux wrote numerous commentaries on the Canticles, comparing the soul to the bride, as well as many on Our Lady. He was also known to have visited several shrines of the Black Madonna, for example: Chatillon and Affligem. In the Gothic period texts explicitly interpreted the Bride in Canticles as referring especially to Mary. Once artistic precedent had been set, subsequent black madonnas may be explained by artistic convention rather than theological motivation. Based on historical correlations, Ean Begg speculates that the genre developed from an esoteric popular religion common among the Templars and Cathars, perhaps as a complement to the impetus from Bernard.

The other prominent theory is briefly summarized by Stephen Benko: "the Black Madonna is the ancient earth-goddess converted to Christianity." His argument begins by noting that many goddesses were pictured as black, among them Artemis of Ephesus, Isis, Ceres, and others. Ceres, the Roman goddess of agricultural fertility, is particularly important. Her Greek equivalent, Demeter, derives from Ge-meter or Earth Mother. The best fertile soil is black in color and the blacker it is, the more suited it is for agriculture. [...]

We received the following commentary to add to this information:

"Concerning why is she black--in Aramaic the language of Jesus--black means "sorrowful." It is a language of idioms. This links the Blessed Mother to Isis who was called "sorrowing" in her search for Osiris."

For further information on Black Madonnas, refer to The Cult of the Black Virgin (1985) by Ean Begg; Mother Worship:Themes and Variations (1982) by James Preston (ed.); and The Virgin Goddess (1993) by Stephen Benko or to these other Mary Page resources:

_ (list of Black Madonnas worldwide & bibliography)
_ ("some useful links for those interested in the Black Madonna phenomenon")

source: _


Jedi Master

Isis's name was originally Aset - the Greeks changed it to Isis. Lunar Aset is not a single goddess, but dual. Her sister, Nephthys, was the dark moon. In the ancient Book of the Dead, Nepthys is portrayed standing opposite her sister, like a shadow -neter. In addition to being sister to Aset/Isis, this black virgin Nephthys was sister and wife to dark Set.

The pair - Aset/Isis and Nephthys - were called the weeping sisters. Their tears stream to Earth, just as the tears of sleeping humanity stream towards the moon in the Tarot card. This, it is said, was because they both wept at the death of Osiris, but there is a deeper reason: another, but invisible, moon, not of our dimension, encircling our planet.


FOTCM Member
This is indeed the quotation from "The Zelator" by Mark Hedsel, also cited in the Wave:
The Zelator said:
‘The great mother Isis is the womb of all things which come into the light of the Sun, from the preserving darkness of her womb. Yet the lunar Isis is not a single goddess, but dual. Her sister, Nephthys, was the dark Moon: in the ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead, Nephthys is portrayed standing opposite her sister, like a shadow-neter (opposite). In addition to being sister of Isis, this black virgin Nephthys was sister and wife of the dark Set. Like her sister, Nephthys was a great magician, with a command of the secret words. This may explain why she has been given such an important resurrectional role in certain modern black magic cults, after so many centuries of near oblivion.43 The pair - Isis and Nephthys - were called the weeping sisters. Their tears stream to Earth, just as the tears of sleeping humanity stream towards the Moon in the Tarot card (see figure on page 299). This, it is said, was because they both wept at the death of Osiris, though, as we shall see, there may be a far deeper reason for this description.’


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Fulcanelli the Astronomer :) gives out the last clue. Looks so well related with Clube and Napier's work!

Black Madonna = Isis before conception is.. in astronomical theogany, that attribute of the Virgin.. that is to say the earth before its fecundation and which the rays of the sun are soon going to bring to life. She's also the Mother of the Gods.. the esoteric meaning of our black Virgins cannot better be defined.

Marija Gimbutas:

The main theme of the Goddess symbolism is the mystery of birth and death and the renewall of life, not only human, but all life on earth and indeed the whole cosmos.. this symbolic system represents cyclical, not linear, mythical time. In art this is manifested by the signs of dynamic motion: whirling and twisting spirals [...]

back to Fulcanelli:

[Black Virgins] represent in hermetic symbolism the virgin earth, which th artist must choose as the subject of his Great Work. It is first matter in mineral state, as it comes out of the ore-bearing strata, deeply buried under the rocky mass. It is.. 'a heavy, brittle, friable black substance, which has the appearance of a stone and, like a stone, can shatter into minute fragments'.

Now thinking about cometary fragments (childs?), the twisting into spirals, the Mother of the Gods, and the clue that she out both to fecundate and bring death.. and that many black Madonnas carved on stone look like a christmas tree icons, little head usually crowned, long vest very broad at the bottom and often striped or multicolored, well, heck, this black Madonna looks definitely like a comet to me! :O


The Force is Strong With This One
She also appears to be Danu, or Anu. ...
I wonder if the moon goddess Anu worshipped by the Celts was related to the Anunnakis. Cs said that the sons of Belial were originally the kantekkians who later became the celts and aryans. Cs had regular contact with the "Northern people" aka celts when they were on Kantek " before they were “lifted” to Earth by Orion sts."

The anunnakis also came from Kantek and knew the planet was going to be destroyed and were transported by Lizzies. It wasn't explicitly stated whether the Anunnakis sapping "souls energy created by the fear, chaos " was a bad thing because it's not stated whether Anunnakis were the cause of negative soul energy. Since the loosh was there might as well take it.

Some scholars say Anunnakis/Anunnas are the children of Anu/An in Enuma Elisha. Anu is born from Ansar who the Cs said is Jupiter. Jupiter is linked to Zeus and Baalzebul.


The Force is Strong With This One
I was thinking that the Black Madonna could be related to "dark matter" and merkaba the mother stone.

Matter as opposed to spirit can be seen as the mother's womb to nurture fallen light beings, those who are not in union with the One. Dark matter might be antimatter. When matter and antimatter combine, an explosion often results. Hence, black madonna is associated with destruction.

The mother stone, aka Ark of the Convenant aka Holy Grail, is a magical device that can materialize many things. It probably operates using quantum physics such as dark energy and antimatter in order to traverse different densities and realms to create miracles. If the device is properly tuned, dark matter can be used to create instead of destroy.
February 26, 2002
(L) Right. Do you mean tuned as in the tuning of the creation or the tuning of the operation?
A: Creation.
Q: (A) Okay. Once it is tuned, it is tuned, right?

Speaking of goddess traditions, black madonna might also be related to Sophia (wisdom) or Baphemetis.
Baphemetis - baph metis - means dyeing something with color and wisdom (according to Goat stories for children?). Baph later means immersion, perhaps traversing a different dimension like antimatter?
Schonfield was interested in the charges of heresy leveled against the Knights Templars and the etymology of the word Baphomet which was why he was inspired to apply the Atbash cipher which he was convinced the Templars were aware of, to the word Baphomet. Applying the Atbash cipher, Schonfield revealed the following:

The word Baphomet: Bet Pe Vav Mem Taf BAPHOMET

With the Atbash Cipher: Shin Vav Pe Yud Alef SOPHIA

Although written in Hebrew it reads as the Greek word Sophia that translates into "Wisdom" in English. In other words, it seems that however you decode this word, what you get is Wisdom whether you use Sophia, Bahu Mid, or Baphemetis. What you do NOT get is the Goat god Mendes or any of the Eliphas Levi nonsense.

Looking at the Greek source: Baphe Metis is semi-Greek and a combination of words that is suggested to mean: Initiation by water (baptismo) and Wisdom of Measurement as by math (metes - metric). "Baphe" is pseudo-Greek, and "Metis" is proper Greek.

Baphe is not a Greek word, ancient or Biblical, that means Wisdom, Initiation, Holy Spirit, Cleansing, or anything normally related to Baptism in everyday speech. Baphe is a noun in Attic Greek that means "dye" as in coloring. Baptein is the verb "to dye" as in to color something by dipping it. Baphe, used in the sense of "Baptism" or Initiation" came only after the word Baptismo, a word peculiar to those cults that practice ritual immersion. It is related to Bahu, but not linguistically as far as anyone knows.

One theory is that the Templars may have originated the use of the word Baphe and stuck it on Met by which they could encode Sophia with the Atbash Cipher. If you know that they meant Sophia, you can figure out how they came up with Baphomet by using what Schonfield used.

Now, going in a more esoteric direction, a word that means Dye = color is related to truly ancient Orphic Doctrines about Demiurge and colors. Scholars debate the origin of a word that sounds like Baptism but which means "dye" connected to a religious rite that predates Greece by thousands of years. This takes us back to Neolithic times and it is suggested that the Greeks got the idea/word from some other culture. I should note that the Picts were known to dye themselves blue, so a Northern origin is most likely.

It is very possible that the Knights Templar used the image of Baphemetis to indicate this origin.

Sophia is the Goddess of Wisdom from the Hellenic and Pythagorean tradition associated with Gnosis. To some Gnostic traditions, Sophia is also considered to be the Bride of God, i.e. Mary. Note also that Mary, Mar, Mer, is associated with Water.

Baptism probably originates from the Celtic myth about healing cauldrons and holy grails, which once again tie into the idea that black madonna is the holy grail. Magog and Cerridwen are both related to the moon:
There is a very ancient Celtic tradition about cauldrons of rebirth, into which wounded, dead or dying soldiers were plunged, and came out healed, whole and reborn. The Holy Grail also bestowed health, healing of battle wounds, and curing of disease upon its bearers. The Celtic cauldrons were also sources of abundance, prophecy, inspiration, and knowledge. Cerridwen, the Welsh Moon Goddess, had a magic cauldron of inspiration. Welsh Bards called themselves Cerddorion (sons of Cerridwen). The Bard Taliesin, founder of their craft, was said to be born of Cerridwen and to have tasted her potion known as “greal,” made from six plants for inspiration and knowledge. Branwen, the sister of Bran the Blessed, was the “Lady of the Cauldron,” as well as the Lady of the Lake. In short, the “Lake” from which the famous Sword emerged, and to which it was returned, was a Cauldron, or the Holy Grail.
The grills might refer to the destruction of goddess traditions with patriarchal ones such as in the myth of Perseus slaying Medusa's head and Marduk slaying Tiamat.

(Note: Ignore my previous post about Anunnaki, since the Cs say the Enuma Elish is about the ascent of lizard gods.)

Debra Lynn

Padawan Learner
Found a book online that may be of interest:

The Two Babylons or The Papal Worship Proved to be the Worship of Nimrod and His Wife
by the Late Rev. Alexander Hislop


Seems to be filled up with with biblical gloss and some as yet unclear (to me...) stands on women in general. The text is very 'dense' and haven't had the time to read it carefully by now.

Hislop's bio from wiki:

Hislop's book review from wiki:

Anyway, that's what caught my attention from the book's index. Some clues about the Madonna and Child iconography:

An excerpt:

Thank you for this. I had been trying to figure out where the Virgin Mary and the Christ child or Madonna and Child story fit into all of this. The explanation that it was based on an older story and then co-opted by the Roman state religion when they were beginning to create their version of Christianity makes sense to me. Might as well deal with this along with the Jesus New Testament story. Finish them off all at once. :-) (in my mind at any rate) That's not to say that the stories that the Roman church made up by drawing on older stories don't have a deeper meaning.


Dagobah Resident
When I look at things like this, I try to absorb what the image says to my soul outside of the rational. And outside of the backstory which is usually some sort of religious chicken McNuggets for the masses. As a young man I did see some paintings that actually changed my consciousness. But it was not some "a-hah!" sort of explanatory thing. The images just stopped me in my tracks and reached out to me on an unfathomable sub-conscious level.

I have seen the Black Madonna of Częstochowa first hand.

You descend into a dark, dank place for starters and everyone is hushed and reverent.The first thing that struck me was: the music! Before they pulled back the curtains, there was this almost New Orleans Horn Band slow dirge that droned in a single stressed out minor chord to instill the proper sense of awe, mystery, trembling and Je ne sait quoi. D minor might be a good guess. The Madonna herself has a sense of being abused and wounded to the nth degree. A dark story there indeed. The child is one of these disproportionate small adults that almost seems oblivious and somehow unscathed. What is left out of the picture is the abuser or the source of her suffering.

I see several levels: the severe inner struggle of the individual to protect and nurture that inner baby Christ or spark of conscious awareness (very 4th way-ish) - it is also the dark story of all of humanity. I suppose it could or should be universalized as well. The dark story of our little sector of the galaxy.

Perfection/elevation of the soul through suffering.

A timeless theme acted out on all levels of existence.

Raising of consciousness through awareness....which includes things of a dark nature.

And the missing abuser?

It is us, the observer.

We gain a heart by confronting our own heartlessness.

Look at what you have done, she seems to say almost accusingly with a steadfast gaze.

And see what you too must go through if you are to nurture your own inner Christ.

And see what you too must go through if you are to ever atone.

But the sad Madonna gives way to the shining little Christ.

The suffering Madonna is a way station on the journey.

Is she black because she has risen from the ashes of her own sin?

That is a forbidden question.

For the Madonna is always said to be sinless.

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