Red Symphony - Sinfonia en Rojo Mayor

Approaching Infinity

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PatrickSMcNally said:
Laura said:
there is a powerful LOT of motive on the side of pathocrats to have people conclude what is presented in that book.
Not especially. A problem with using such a broadly generic term as "pathocrat" is that it applies so widely that in practice some other ideological criterion always takes its place. The Whites were certainly more "pathocratic" than other parties to the civil war, that's one of the reasons they lost. General Kornilov announced very early on that "We must save Russia ... even if we have to shed the blood of three-fourths of all the Russians!" They don't come much more "pathocratic" than that.
Patrick, before you go on pretending to have some understanding of ponerology, you'd better actually read the book. Your post above just shows that you have no understanding of the words you're feebly attempting to manipulate. In fact, by your descriptions, the Whites fit the definition of a primary ponerogenic union, that is, one that has slimmer chances of ever achieving "pathocratic" status than a secondary ponerogenic union. If you're going to pretend to have control over the ideas presented in ponerology, best to actually read the work, rather than to arrogantly fumble about in the dark in an effort to dupe others into thinking you know what you're talking about.
 

Stowaway

The Force is Strong With This One
The November 6 said:
WORLD BANK SHOWS NEW GAINS IN MONTH; Increase of $16,000,000 in October Is Chiefly in Short Term Deposits. LESS THAN EARLIER GROWTH Capital Account Also Is Greater Due to Purchase of Shares by the Bank of Estonia.

By CLARENCE K. STREIT. Special Cable to THE NEW YORK TIMES.

November 6, 1930, Thursday

Page 11, 943 words

BASLE, Switzerland, Nov. 5.--Gates W. McGarrah, president of the Bank for International Settlements, sails tonight for the United States on a trip said to combine business and pleasure. The nature of the business is not officially revealed, aside from the fact that Mr. McGarrah plans to confer with bankers and generally renew contacts with them....
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20D12F83D5C117A93C4A9178AD95F448385F9
 

Laura

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I should also like to repeat a bit of the introduction to Red Symphony that is contained in the second post of this thread; this is most important to keep in mind:

Though the style might seem authentic and simple, coming from the doctor Landowski himself, one cannot be sure about who the real author might be: It could be M. Carlavilla himself, or someone else who put this diary in the hands of the doctor before he died. In any case, it is obviously someone who knew very well the details about the events and personal information concerning the leading characters of the period of history.

The fact that this book was forbidden in many countries after its publication, and that there are only a few copies left available in the market, might be a hint as to its authenticity and the consequent danger to those in power should the information contained in the book reach a wider audience.

However, even though most of what is said in this book can be proved to be true in our studies, we cannot be sure about the complete authenticity of the content in this book. The reason for this is that the translator, Mauricio Carlavilla was quite engaged politically. He wrote “The Charm of the Conspiracy”, “Authors, accomplices and cover-ups for Communism”, “Me and Moscow” , etc. We also found certain clues on the Internet indicating that he might have been a pronazi. This could or could not be true. It is true that he does not talk about Nazism in Red Symphony, but at the same time, what is said in the book can be proved true today.
It certainly seems to be so that Mr. McNally is charged with the task of debunking both Red Symphony and Controversy of Zion.

As I said, before we continue this discussion, I think that it is important to have some verifiable information about Mr. McNally - and his claim to authority - himself.
 

PatrickSMcNally

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Laura said:
I should also like to repeat a bit of the introduction to Red Symphony that is contained in the second post of this thread; this is most important to keep in mind:

In any case, it is obviously someone who knew very well the details about the events and personal information concerning the leading characters of the period of history.
Perhaps you could provide a single example from RED SYMPHONY which indicates some detailed knowledge of any verifiable historical fact. I read through it methodically and did not find any indication that it carries a detailed knowledge of anyone's personal information anywhere in the transcript. It mainly consisted of Right-wing nostrums which have been recycled many times and are widely propagated within a certain sector of the political Right, but there was no indication of any real historical information. If you have some examples that can be cited where it indicates knowledge of real historical data then please list a few of them.
 

PatrickSMcNally

Padawan Learner
Yossarian said:
the miraculous economic expansion of the German economy in the few short years
That's a bit of an overstatement. The German economy had begun coming out of the Depression slowly before Hitler came to power. It rejuvenated for awhile, but by the close of the 1930s it was already slowing down and more and more this was being compensated for by a shift to arms production.

This is actually a good case example of how people become attached to something like RED SYMPHONY. It repeats several nostrums which have a popularity in some sectors, and then people jump on it as if it were confirming a preconception which they had already had. But when we consult studies with some detail (e.g., Richard Overy, WAR AND ECONOMY IN THE THIRD REICH) then we find that the initial preconception has to be qualified so far as to become meaningless, while the fact that RED SYMPHONY carries this misconception only reaffirms that it was written for a certain ideological audience. This, as far as I've been able to tell, is all that anyone really means when they say that RED SYMPHONY was written by someone with a good inside knowledge. It doesn't really carry any verifiable information which would show any special knowledge, but the nostrums which it repeats, such the story of the German economic miracle, are portrayed as such.
 

go2

Dagobah Resident
PatrickSMcNally said:
A reality check will show that the no one was more alienated from the average Russian than the White generals. That's precisely why they lost the civil war to the Reds. It's true that a general urban/rural cleavage had developed in Russia for several decades prior to 1917, and the revolutionary intellectuals did reflect some of this disjointedness from the mass of peasantry, though to a much lesser degree than Kornilov, Denikin, Wrangel or Kolchak. But one must be really ideologically blind to imagine that any of the divides between urban revolutionaries and agrarian peasants were on a level with the separation of the Whites, who were allied with the older landlord class, from the majority of peasants. The Whites lost, despite significant infusions of British and French aid, because were nothing but an alien domination to the majority of Russians. That's the way it was.
There was a group alienated from the average Russian Slavs and the Russian aristocracy. That was the Jews of
the Pale of Settlements. This ethnic group left the shtetl towns by the millions for St. Petersberg and Moscow
where they became an integral part of the ruling elite of the Soviet Union. We all know that tens of millions
of average Russians were murdered by the Bolshevik government of the Soviet Union. That is even more pathocratic than a mere statement of a White General you offer as evidence of the sole pathocracy operative
in Russia in those years. The Jews had a long and antagonistic relationship with the Russian Slavs. They despised and hated the Russian Slavs. The Jews were over represented in the demographics of the Bosheviks. This history is thoughly documented by Yuri Slezkine in the book, The Jewish Century. The book is reviewed by Kevin McDonald in an essay entitled Stalin's Willing Executioneers.


Kevin McDonald said:
Beyond the issue of demonstrating that the Jews benefited from the Revolution lies the more important question of their role in implementing it. Having achieved power and elite status, did their traditional hostility to the leaders of the old regime, and to the peasantry, contribute to the peculiarly ghastly character of the early Soviet era?

On this question, Slezkine’s contribution is decisive.

Despite the important role of Jews among the Bolsheviks, most Jews were not Bolsheviks before the Revolution. However, Jews were prominent among the Bolsheviks, and once the Revolution was underway, the vast majority of Russian Jews became sympathizers and active participants.

Jews were particularly visible in the cities and as leaders in the army and in the revolutionary councils and committees. For example, there were 23 Jews among 62 Bolsheviks in the All-Russian Central Executive Committee elected at the Second Congress of Soviets in October, 1917. Jews were leaders of the movement and to a great extent they were its public face.

Their presence was particularly notable at the top levels of the Cheka and OGPU (two successive acronyms for the secret police). Here Slezkine provides statistics on Jewish overrepresentation in these organizations, especially in supervisory roles, and quotes historian Leonard Shapiro’s comment that “anyone who had the misfortune to fall into the hands of the Cheka stood a very good chance of finding himself confronted with and possibly shot by a Jewish investigator.”

During the 1930s, Slezkine reports, the secret police, now known as the NKVD, “was one of the most Jewish of all Soviet institutions”, with 42 of the 111 top officials being Jewish. At this time 12 of the 20 NKVD directorates were headed by ethnic Jews, including those in charge of State Security, Police, Labor Camps, and Resettlement (deportation).

The Gulag was headed by ethnic Jews from its beginning in 1930 until the end of 1938, a period that encompasses the worst excesses of the Great Terror.

They were, in Slezkine’s remarkable phrase, “Stalin’s willing executioners”.
The McDonald essay can be read in its entirety at the following web site: _http://www.kevinmacdonald.net/SlezkineRev.pdf
I find it remarkable that PatrickSMcNally ignores this obvious divide between the Jewish intellectuals and elites
envolved in the Bolshevik Revolution and the Russian Orthodox Christian Slavs.

"By their fruits, ye shall know them," is sufficient comment on this vast tragedy and its orgins.
 

PatrickSMcNally

Padawan Learner
go2 said:
We all know that tens of millions of average Russians were murdered by the Bolshevik government of the Soviet Union.
No, that's a myth which the media has propagated but which scholarship based upon the archives has discredited. Archibald Getty comments on the story flying around:

"The new documentation has confirmed other aspects of the terror that I have suspected for some time. For one thing, the archival evidence from the secret police rejects the astronomically high estimates often given for the number of terror victims. Certainly, the numbers are still terribly large, and even the more modest figures from the archives do not make the terror any more palatable or easy to understand. We should not need to artificially run up the score to tens of millions of victims to realize the horror of Stalinsim."
-- Archibald Getty & Oleg Naumov, THE ROAD TO TERROR, p. xiv.

Getty & Naumov return to this point periodically:

"Popular estimates of executions in the Great Purges of 1937-38 vary from 500,000 to 7 million... the data available at this point make it clear that the number show in the two worst purge years was more likely in the hundreds of thousands than in the millions."
-- Getty & Naumov, pp. 590-1.

Apart from the raw prison data available from police archives, the general demographic picture which has been put together by researchers working from the archives is also totally incompatible with the myth of "tens of millions." Demographics are reproduced in Michael Haynes & Rumy Husan, A CENTURY OF STATE MURDER? Some quick things to note are that the mortality rate of Czarist Russia was 30.9 per thousand in 1913; Soviet mortality was 20.9 in 1938 and 8.0 in 1958. While such a general improvement in the population's health doesn't negate the more cruel acts of the Gulag, it again contradicts the myth of "tens of millions" of unnatural peacetime deaths occurring in the Soviet Union. There simply is nothing to support that.

go2 said:
That is even more pathocratic than a mere statement of a White General you offer as evidence of the sole pathocracy operative in Russia in those years.
The reality of the White terror does not depend upon a single statement by Kornilov. His comment is just very well representative of the attitude which the Whites as a whole took towards the populace. Cold War propaganda has made a point of steering attention away from White terror so that one has to actually take some time studying the civil war to become aware of it.

go2 said:
This history is thoughly documented by Yuri Slezkine in the book, The Jewish Century.
Slezkine's book is rather an extended philosophical essay, not a documented historical work. The works which I mention above are examples of the latter. Also, if you wish to begin learning something about the Russian civil war then you might begin with W. Bruce Lincoln, RED VICTORY. That's a very good beginner's introduction for someone just getting their feet wet.

The main valid point from Slezkine which is often miscited and distorted out of shape by people who claim to be quoting him is that among the more educated revolutionary intellectuals there was by 1917 a predominance of Jews. That's true in the sense that educated Gentiles in Czarist Russia tended to more easily buy into the existing system of power and so became blinded to the reality around them. Jewish intellectuals were more ready to accept the signs that a revolution was already brewing. However a careful reading of even Slezkine's own texts makes it clear that he acknowledges that there was no shortage of Russian Gentiles ready to kill the royal family. It was only the more educated Gentiles who felt themselves attached to the older social order. The implication often tossed around that somehow Slezkine's casual comments "prove" that a majority of Gentile Russians supported the Whites is false and is not even claimed by Slezkine.

go2 said:
The McDonald essay
Ah, MacDonald. He's got an interesting record of misciting what sources say so as to give the opposite impression to the reader. This review

http://www.h-net.org/~antis/papers/dl/macdonald_schatz_01.html

discusses how MacDonald misquoted Schatz out of context to give the reader such an impression that runs quite opposite to what Schatz's research shows. Just get the Schatz book yourself and do the comparisons.
 

Laura

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Patrick McNally said:
We all know that tens of millions of average Russians were murdered by the Bolshevik government of the Soviet Union.
No, that's a myth which the media has propagated but which scholarship based upon the archives has discredited. Archibald Getty comments on the story flying around:

"The new documentation has confirmed other aspects of the terror that I have suspected for some time. For one thing, the archival evidence from the secret police rejects the astronomically high estimates often given for the number of terror victims. Certainly, the numbers are still terribly large, and even the more modest figures from the archives do not make the terror any more palatable or easy to understand. We should not need to artificially run up the score to tens of millions of victims to realize the horror of Stalinsim."
-- Archibald Getty & Oleg Naumov, THE ROAD TO TERROR, p. xiv.
Getty & Naumov return to this point periodically:

"Popular estimates of executions in the Great Purges of 1937-38 vary from 500,000 to 7 million... the data available at this point make it clear that the number show in the two worst purge years was more likely in the hundreds of thousands than in the millions."
-- Getty & Naumov, pp. 590-1.
Hmmm.... this reminds me of something else being discussed in another thread. "Revisiting The Horrors Of The Holocaust" see here: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=9304

Now, as I have mentioned, I've been reading the works of Hannah Arendt who was, herself, interned in a French concentration camp before she escaped and was able to make her way to the US. That's a story in itself. Leave that aside for a moment and just consider the fact that she was there at the time, what she wrote was rather "fresh," before the "Holocaust Industy" got geared up and running.

If you read her book "Eichmann in Jerusalem," you read a lot about "mobile gas vans" and so forth.

Well, in the above mentioned thread, I quoted an article that kind of piqued my curiosity which was why I included the word "alleged" in my comments about the gas chambers.

However, the forum member, Nemo, came along and wrote a compelling bit, some of which dovetailed exactly with what Arendt wrote... which basically was that the Nazis did a MASSIVE cover-up of the majority of the genocide they were committing because 1) they knew that they would be condemned by the world for "administrative genocide" and 2) when they knew they were going to lose, they needed to prepare the way for survival in the new system. And survive they did. Many German politicians, judges, bureaucrats, etc, just switched from being Nazis to being part of the new government after the war. And of course, there were the Nazi scientists brought to the US under Operation Paperclip.

Another thing I learned was from direct observation by my husband who, as you might know, grew up in occupied, communist Poland. He pointed out to me that even after the victory of solidarity, the same people were still in power only under a different "umbrella." It was "meet the new boss, same as the old boss." And, of course, a whole lot of covering up and destruction of records went on so that this transition could take place smoothly.

In recent years, there have been some leaks (a few out of the thousands upon thousands that could have happneed if the records had existed!) about communists still holding positions of importance. There have been some "suicides," some "disappearances" some covered-up executions, etc in the past couple of years over this scandal.

So, after thinking about what Nemo wrote, what Arendt wrote, and the whole general trend of things I began to re-think my criticism of this statement in the article quoted in the above linked thread which was:

While the Nazis did not write down the names of those executed in the gas chambers at places like Auschwitz, they did keep detailed records of millions of others who died in the camps.
Now, I don't think that the Nazis did not write down the names of those who were executed (however they were executed - Arendt talks about mobile carbon monoxide trucks that did the job) necessarily, but I suspect that if they did, they were recorded in special files or books which were later destroyed for obvious reasons.

Coming back now to what you are saying, that we should rely on "scholarship based upon the archives" - sorry, don't buy it.

There are just too many examples of archives being created or destroyed for political reasons that are so obvious that I shouldn't even have to elucidate them for anyone.

And, again, until you answer the questions that have been put to you, your posting privileges are suspended.
 

Approaching Infinity

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Announcement!

Hannah Arendt's book, Eichmann in Jerusalem, discussed in this thread, is available for purchase at the Red Pill Press website. By purchasing the book on RPP, you are both supporting the copyright holder, and the present and future activities of Red Pill Press.
 

JCA

A Disturbance in the Force
G. - But you said that they are the bankers?

R. - Not I; remember that I always spoke of the financial International, and when mentioning persons I said "They" and nothing more. If you want that I should inform you openly then I shall only give facts, but not names, since I do not know them. I think I shall not be wrong if I tell you that not one of "Them" is a person who occupies a political position or a position in the World Bank. As I understood after the murder of Rathenau in Rapallo, they give political or financial positions only to intermediaries. Obviously to persons who are trustworthy and loyal, which can be guaranteed a thousand ways: thus one can assert that bankers and politicians - are only men of straw ... even though they occupy very high places and are made to appear to be the authors of the plans which are carried out.
I'm a spaniard spanish speaker and I have and have read the original book published in 1950 by Editorial NOS. The original text says:

G.—¿No ha dicho usted que son banqueros?...

R.—Yo no; recuerde que siempre le he dicho la Finanza Internacional y que al personalizar he dicho siempre «Ellos» nada más. Si he de informarle con sinceridad, sólo le diré hechos, no nombres, porque no los sé. No creo equivocarle si le digo que «Ellos» no son ninguno de los hombres que aparecen ocupando cargos en la política o en la Banca mundial. Según tengo entendido, desde el asesinato de Rathenau, el de Rapallo, no emplean en la política y en la finanza más que hombres interpuestos. Naturalmente, hombres de toda su confianza más que hombres interpuestos. Naturalmente, hombres de toda su confianza, con una fidelidad garantizada por mil medios distintos; así que cabe asegurar que los banqueros y políticos, tan sólo son sus «hombres de paja»..., por grande que sea su rango, y aun cuando aparezcan personalmente como autores de los hechos.
In Spanish, ‘World Bank’ as institution (the same applies to ‘Central Bank’, etc.) is translated as ‘Banco Mundial’; ‘Banca mundial’ is only generic and collective, not institutional; the difference in meaning is clear in the original text.

For all of you who understand Spanish, I will post the original text in my blog soon: http://javcus.es/javier/
 

Laura

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Thanks, JCA, for contributing to our discussion of Red Symphony. What is your overall impression of the book?
 

Voyageur

The Living Force
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Red Symphony

I read the treads with much interest as some very important things were being said about the depths that we go through to maintain our beliefs. Red Symphony seemed to be a charged subject scratching out a good discussion about ideologies as much as the subject proper, which was a rather thought provoking way of challenging our sacred cows.

RS was discussed with emphasis on “possible” as Laura quite rightly said, also, that in the end we will perhaps never know the reality of this document. But in keeping with “possible”, how can this be measured? RS describes two sides of a coin as do most conflicts. The coin is not owned by anyone side, it seems to be minted for the pleasure of others, each side projects something in opposition to the other but very much in keeping with a calculated aim, or is it calculated to maintain chaos? RS describes a thread weaved back to some tapestry which is abstract; we just don’t know what we are looking at or even just where it is or fits. Is the coins minters an influence or is in fact the proverbial they/them equation? Is it possible to define? RS is complex to say the least and separating the wheat from the shaft seems a daunting task and is probably an exercise in futility that lies within circles upon circles. Along these very lines elsewhere much has been written and the angles are bloated in meaning and connections.

My awareness concerning ideologies within the context of this thread was that it seems humanity must have this banner to march behind in whatever form, however, it is of trifle concern to a consortium who march to a different tune. I think, however; this is open to opinion, that it is logical from a Ponerology standpoint, that power such as was discussed care not for ideologues and their dramas, these kind must be hell-bent on pure manipulation and greed and whether they finance the belts and brown shirts of the Third Reich, are architect of the Lend Lease Allied agreements, mine the steel ore for tanks, guns and destroyers of any nation, mix the chemical compounds or develop the fuses for bombs makes no difference, they are a part of this all; all other is fodder in whatever way they design.

The book “Merchants of Death” by H.C Engelbrecht and F.C Hanighen published 1934 speaks very well about the interconnections starting with the Bank financiers, Media (much owned at the time by the arms industry), Brokers, Arms Makers, Steel and Chemical concerns dyestuffs etc. As you can see by the date it precedes WWII and does not seem to be polluted by post WWII bias. That being said, today it is no different; “meet the new boss, same as the old boss”, the names and faces have changed but more or less nothing else. The same can be said of the hidden apex comptrollers who all others underneath could not operate unless permitted.

I first came across Red Symphony many years ago, digested the story and filed it away in my mind thinking I might stumble on this again or find some seed in some other story that might present cross pollination, so to speak. Yes there are many seeds but I still don’t know what exactly the plant looks like; maybe a hyperdimensional root system is apt?
Back to RS: a couple of things written about banks and fiat currency in general; Dr. Martin Larson in discussing “The Importance of Sound Money” wrote quoting John Maynard Keynes, …”Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the capitalist system was to debauch the currency.” Dr. Larson continues, “Lenin was certainly right. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society….The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million can diagnose….The governments of Europe…are fast rendering impossible a continuance of the social and economic order of the 19th century.”
In the threads of RS there was much debate on the objectives of one in particular concerning the authenticity based on his possible academic rendering of historical beliefs written by a myriad of authors looking to piece things together neatly. There was discussion about Trotsky that weighed him neatly to one side; it seemed in an effort to tie him down. Connections to any Rothschild was opposed sighting, if so, why was he not helped in exile. However, it is known as even Rakovsky discusses, that Leon Trotsky was married to Abram Zhivotovsky’s daughter who was a Rothschild friend and associate banker. If he was scapegoated, perhaps this was by design? It is possible too that Lenin and then Trotsky became caught up in an later power struggle with Stalin who was very silently hinted at being an agent/spy of the Okhranna czarist secret police, although this was never believed and would be vehemently opposed; but evidence does exist – see ‘Stalin’s Great Secret’ by Isaac Don Levine, published 1956.

In RS, “them/they” allusions were made concerning hidden hands inclusive of many well known banking interests such as Kuhn, Loeb and Warburg etc. and of course the “World Bank” word debate, which must have been interpreted by the various translation copyists via the Russian, French and Spanish translation synthesis as being difficult as was said, not really knowing the source documents. The feeling from Mr. McNally was that this ‘word’ could not exist as it was not coined (no pun intended) or would not be utilized at the time. This became a point of contention and was also seen as a sacred cow which I agree it was. The ‘word’ may indeed have morphed when finally penned in the 50’s or 60’s (I think this was close to the date of RS book?) due to original textual meaning/confusion. The word ‘World Bank’ was in vogue at that time and fits within the lexicon of the day and age, but nonetheless, the word ‘Central Bank’ whether the Bank of England or the German Reichsbank was often the term used earlier and strived for; all were interconnected, hence from a central place, as in one place, as in world place, as in world bank. Whether the ‘word’ was used or not in the main is perhaps moot as the interconnectedness of banking was on a central heading, and must surely have been used as it fits their ultimate objective, especially if you were, say an international banking financier.

Now back to hidden hands or they/them allusions. Dr. Larson discuses that the Warburg family and Mr. Paul M Warburg , later of Kuhn, Loeb & Co. were the principle stockholders of the Reichsbank and son Paul came to the US in 1902 to the firm described above. “In 1913, he accepted the Order of the Reich, were his brother was head of the secret police.” And it gets better, “Wilson (Woodrow) appoints Warburg to membership in the first Federal Reserve Bank…he was not only the principal architect of the Fed, but continued also as its guiding spirit even during the years when we were at war with his motherland.” “It has been stated on good authority that it was through the aid of Warburg’s brother that Lenin was able to cross Germany to Russia in a sealed train in 1918.” The rest, inclusive of the Glass bill, Aldrich bill, Jekyll Island etc. is well documented and along these lines, the allusion to them/they made above is no stretch at all.

There have been reams of paper written on banking subjects so I will end that here with the point being that the descriptions made in RS were in my opinion synchronous with the objectives of a global consortium. To illustrate this on a final comment by Dr Larson speaking about the Fed and other, “…Fed officials, as such, are above the law; for they cannot be punished or even penalized for anything they may do in that capacity.”, then he says, “We must , then, conclude that we are ruled primarily, not by our elected representatives, but by a consortium of international financiers who use their position to manipulate our currency for their aggrandizement to a degree probably without parallel in the history of civilization.” [Notwithstanding hyperdimensional influences].

In the RS thread there was also a flurry of exchange concerning the word “Communism” as not being a word that was much in use and would never be used as a descriptor of the USSR. NKVD, and also death statistics were questioned by the hand of this regime.

A long time ago I chanced to meet an elderly man of Norwegian descent who upon discussion of his interests lent way to giving me a number of strange books. To me at the time they were not books of the main and confused me by way of their origins, topics and direction; my thoughts were then and to some degree now that there was disinformation here. However, in keeping with the view that history is written by the victors, I gave them some due and will recount a few for references.

“The Crime of Moscow in Vynnytsia” - Testimony on the murder of 9,439 Ukrainians by the Soviet NKVD
This was written by the ‘Institute for Historical Review’ by John F. Stewart.

In the preface “…It was Lenin himself who said that…” “Three-quarters of mankind must die if necessary, to ensure the other quarter for Communism”.

The publisher goes on to say that, “Of course, we shall never be able to obtain exact figures for the number of deaths at the hands of Communism, since all massacres are perpetrated by tyrants who have no interest in publishing incriminating statistics. We have to rely on the reports of dissidents who have managed to escape the iron grip of Bolshevism, and on the description of western diplomats and journalists who may have been in the area at the time.”

“On 31st October 1967, exile groups from the Iron Curtain countries held an Inter-Denominational Service to Commemorate the Victims of Communism at the Royal Albert Hall London. The death toll – so far – of communist tyranny was given there as follows:”

Russian Revolution & Civil War 1-1/2 Million
Civilian Deaths in Civil War & Ensuing Famine 13 Million
Murder of “class enemies” and minorities 3 Million
Famine caused by disaster of Five Year Plan 7 Million
Stalinist Purges 1-1/2 Million
Labor camp deaths 1921-60 19 Million
USSR only total 45 Million

Solzhenitsyn in ‘The Gulag Archipelago’ sites exiled Soviet statistician Kurganov estimating the total at the hands of the KGB and predecessors as at least 66 Million.

This book goes on to tell the story of atrocities by Russians on the Polish prisoners of war at Katyn and on and on inclusive of detailed signed reports by Ukrainian peoples.

What does one say about any of this? Whether the numbers were one or thus stated, I added them because the RS thread comments seemed by the one, to be somewhat contentious.

A little side note about the NKVD; during the 1940’s after Lend Lease was operational, the US aircraft industry shipped 7,926 airplanes to Moscow via the Alaska-Siberia corridor. In Alaska, the planes were taken over by many NKVD agents trained to fly or they were there to watch-everything. The planes were stripped of their US insignia and repainted in the USSR Star standards.

A very well researched book entitled ‘War planes to Alaska’, written by Blake W. Smith describes in detail and interviews the conditions and events of this armament rout. The rout spearheaded out of the Great Falls air base pipeline and it is noted, “It was here, over a period of time, that the Soviets were completely effective at segregating their affairs from prying eyes of American officials, to the extent that they almost run the base.” Many officials had had some words from on high about hands off and these officials were very concerned and felt they were being had. Officials, “…first noted…that small quantities of baggage labelled personal luggage, not subject to inspection because of ‘diplomatic immunity’ began to pass through for shipment to Russia aboard C-47 transports. Before long the entire cargo compartment of the c_47s were being taken up by the personal luggage and guarded by two armed couriers whose job it was to make sure that an inspection would not take place.”

A few pilots and officials had had enough and challenged the couriers, Smith said, “…What he discovered stunned and baffled him-scientific papers by the thousands, road and railway maps detailing every point in the U.S. and American military papers by score marked ‘Secret’…Most mysterious were countless papers bearing the letterhead, Manhatten Engineering District…eventually lean was that these papers related to the Manhatten Project, and building of the world’s first atomic bomb. Words like ‘cyclotron’ and ‘proton, deuteron’ and ‘uranium 92’ made little sense at the time but all were scribed in his notebook.”

Well, well, it makes one think that all the arrests by the FBI over ‘Nuclear Secrets’ at that time were pure window dressing and scapegoat patsies? TPTB seemed to facilitate the Soviets quit well.

All in all many of these heavy laden flights left under armed guard and there are good stories told by the pilots about the weights, measures and security-all protests were met with stern reprimands of silence. On the other side of the pond the Russian pilots or others who participated in Lend Lease were forbidden to talk about it, even after the war, “…I was called before the KGB and it was explained to me that America had never sent airplanes to the USSR which meant I could never have piloted them. They advised me never to speak to anyone about the subject and took away my identification card verifying I was a war participant-it was finally returned to me in 1991.” General M.G. Machin of the USSR was presented with the American “Legion of Merit” for his exceptional service as head of the Soviet Military Mission in Alaska. He said to his son later after he had found some photos, “Did you know, during this time photographs were not permitted...NKVD watched and followed everybody to prevent the divulgence of military secrets. This is why I have hidden these photographs-don’t talk to anyone.” His son gave him his promise.

The Soviets were given approximately 20,000 airplanes from the US and England.

As stated above, this rout also became a pipeline for many industrial and military secrets by sympathisers and others who may have been trying to seed the conditions for future conflict and the arms race i.e. nuclear material. There are stories that the US was playing around with heavy water near Noam Alaska and that the NKVD agents were flying that rout and photographing all. There is certainly evidence concerning fissionable materials being trans-located through this rout.

Now to the other side of the coin; there is a book written in 1944 by author Curtis Riess called “The Nazis Go Underground”. This is a very strange book written in a unique way including hypothetical interviews between real Nazi characters and personas within congress and the senate preparing for their underground activities.

Riess says, “…If nothing else the last fifteen years have proved that it is an ungrateful business to warn the public against the Fascist danger. The world did not want to be warned against the Nazis. First there was the general conspiracy not to speak about the Nazis at all, and frightened people-fist in Germany, later in the entire world-believed that if Hitler wasn’t mentioned he somehow would become non-existent…In vain were hundreds of books and articles published warning the world against the coming events. The world preferred to play deaf and dumb.” [go back to sleep]

When bombs laid ruin to the Prinz Albrechtstrasse. “Himmler’s rooms contained a small but extremely specialized private library, consisting entirely of books dealing with the subject of underground movements. There were volumes on the intrigues of Bourbons since 1789, on Bonaparte movement after 1815, on what happened in Prussia between 1806 and 1812. There were Kotzebue’s works on the history of German orders, the writing of Lenin and Trotsky on organization of underground movements, and of Djershinsky-the first efficient police organizer of the Bolshevists-as well as books on the Ku Klux Klan, the Irish revolutionary movements, the German Free Corps, and Feme organizations of the early 1920’s et cetera.”

Described is a book by German Count Adolf Franz Friedich von Knigge called innocently enough ‘On Dealing with People’ which was changed by the publisher later to reflect along the titles name, “…the original book, however was no mere work on social etiquette. It contained the laws and rules of a secret society. In short, its subject was how to deal with people in order to promote a revolution, how to form tactics and strategy for revolts.” This apparently then was available in the original edition of 1788 and could then be found in some libraries. This book seemed to be described as being written primarily about secret societies of “the Illuminaten whose raison d’êtres was to fight against the monarchic principle for the rights of the third estate and for the idea of international brotherhood.”

There is described a new comer group called the Cabonari also mentioned by Rakovsky and are described as small cells that attempt to upset monarchic regimes and were active in Russia, France, Italy and elsewhere and whom Louis Napoleon was member. In Russia they were mostly army officers and the first important group were the Decembrists who in 1825 attempted an open revolt against the Czar.

In the sectioned called “Those Who Paid Hitler” the usual crew was working overtime from Krupp, Thyssen, IG Farbin, Schnitzler; not elaborated on was the US and other activities. There was a curious section about the French Riviera were it seems the neighbours may have shared more than the rivers delights. For instance, Herr Thyssen’s (on his false flight) neighbours that flanked his Villa were, “…Sir Neville Henderson, former British Ambassador to Berlin, a Tory of the purist water, and an appeaser if there ever was one. On the other side of him lived Pierre Etienne Flandin, the well-known reactionary French politician, the man who represented the interests of French industrialist of the Thyssen type.” These of course were but a fraction of the them/they(s) living along the Riviera at that time and the same must be true today. Imagining the fire side chats concerning global objectives is not difficult. If this is so, it is not either a stretch to see this compounded across the globe of our reality; imagine the financiers of Wall Street or Geneva, Russia, China and England, the industrialists of all kinds propping up arms dealers whose shipments are bought and paid for by tidy loans or government trade agreements. Imagine the various government factions around the globe with their intelligence arms inputting and outputting data and deeds that direct the causes and effects like ripples on a pond. Can you even imagine the conversations of this magnitude – chilling indeed? It seems that it could not be possible for a governing entity with its industrial children to operate within a one world vacuum unless corrdinated; coordinating arms and all else must run like tentacles throughout all entities?

Napoleon in his last instructions to his son, the King of Rome, wrote: “Let my son read and reflect on history: this is the only philosophy.”

I add this as it is quoted from Hamilton Fish’s book ‘FDR the Other Side of the coin’ published in 1976.
Hamilton Fish the senator is not well known to me as I am not of that country and he was most likely controversial, but he was a voice, not sure if always of reason but perhaps we can hear on that note? It is obvious that he was no fan of FDR, at least in the later part of his presidential tenure. He says a couple of thing within about America entering the war with Japan that are worth noting: “The internationalists’ and interventionists’ cauldron began to seethe and bubble in the United States two years before the outbreak of World War II. The ingredients which Macbeth’s witches used for their hell’s broth were not more terrible or infernal than those thrown into the prewar brew by President Roosevelt and his belligerent prowar cabinet. What were those ingredients? Quarantining the aggressor nations with the lives of American boys, policing the world with the blood and treasure, proclaiming war embargoes, undermining our traditional neutrality and peace [that’s a stretch] for so-called collective security around the world-one-worldism and the demands by the president for unlimited power and money from congress to involve us in war without a declaration of war.”

I see history repeated close to those words with these last political cabals.

Of Churchill, Fish states, “Churchill was a far greater man in every respect than FDR, but he was never permitted to forget that Roosevelt held the purse strings and the military might, the two controlling cards in the game of war and peace. When Churchill sat down with FDR and Stalin at Teheran and Yalta conference, he was, in poker face parlance, squeezed out of the game.”

Of the Declaration of War: Fish as ranking Republican gave a speech on December 8th, 1941 for which later he said, “I am ashamed of that speech today as I know about Roosevelt’s infamous war ultimatum that forced Japan’s leader to fight. And if they hadn’t, they would have been shot by their own people. “

Many have heard all the angles here so I will not further this accept he says something that caught my attention as it relates to what the C’s once quoted (I think closely anyhow); Fish is talking about concessions to Stalin in Eastern Europe and China which resulted in 6 hundred million people being consigned to the yoke of communism, “There is no valid reason for the infamous war ultimatum. Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we practice to deceive…”

From a political insider there is much of interest in this book; Fish was defiantly no friend of communism and discusses extensively Churchill at Yalta and how he was used and the oddities of FDR and his actions; “You shall know them by their fruits”.

Apologies for the diversion; a final thought on RS.

Is it possible the words written in the RS story are but a fiction? Some of the best truths known are written in this way and many authors know this. I think most know that historical records are vetted judiciously to whatever aims fit with academia, governments, industrialist and publicists. Were the original transcripts planted to obscure the source, penned in such a way as to deflect suspicion? Record keeping of that time was expeditious so someone with access should be able to follow the personas? RS describes manipulative roots and Rakovsky said them/they(s) were obscure. Indeed they must be, what we see are undoubtedly the facades that operate out of blind lust for power, but even they may know not the ultimate reason for their actions. They are certainly used as gatekeepers that help to keep beliefs onto a chosen path. We seem so inundated with innuendos about this group or that and speculations runs amuck. Do even these groups know the patterns and the real thread being used that bind them? Have they met the tailor and seen his work? Do they/them(s) operate through the façade groups like a downloaded program, an interface within the couscous or sub conscious mind operating as suggested from a hyperdimensional place? Indeed maybe we can’t know them/they because they may not be of this reality; their strings only operating through chosen lines/DNA constructs, by activated psychopathic switches, their mainframes of our reality programmed to execute the instructions without question? This indeed could be a most marvellous game of the gods? Or is the reality really just one or a small group that is physical behind the curtain of our reality? That seems to simplistic based on our historical known past.

Thanks for all of your reasoning on the Red Symphony subject; it sure triggered some excitement to revisit a few other things from the past, some which have been included here.

PS. I am really a novice at posting – tried cut and paste from a word document that was spaced and then had to repeat space on the forum page, which was difficult; It is evident that I am doing it wrong, can anyone advise?

Moderator's note: See that thread "How to insert quotes".
 

Laura

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Fascinating, Parallax, and chilling as well. Speaking of books that describe how to manipulate people to revolution, have a look at Eric Hoffer's "The True Believer."
 

Chu

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JCA said:
In Spanish, ‘World Bank’ as institution (the same applies to ‘Central Bank’, etc.) is translated as ‘Banco Mundial’; ‘Banca mundial’ is only generic and collective, not institutional; the difference in meaning is clear in the original text.
Yes, you are right, JCA, and that's why a similar comment was added on a footnote concerning this term.
I was in charge of the translation, and like you, I asked myself that question.

However, it is not as simple as that because the Spanish text was translated from French, and in French the word banque (bank) is feminin. French doesn't make the distinction we have in Spanish between banca and banco. Therefore, we have to allow for the possibility that this was a subtlety lost in the translation, as happens very often with gender differences and the so-called "false friends". It could have meant that it was an institution (banco) or a generic and collective term (banca). Impossible to know for sure.

Parallax, I think you brought up a lot of good points worth digging into. Thanks!
 
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