Revisiting The Horrors Of The Holocaust

Judas Saduj said:
But many people will say that the Nazis were so powerful and efficient that they managed to distort the Red Cross perception and thus fool them, covering the facts of the gas chambers of death and making them invisible.

Nothing but excuses to defend a known lie.

It's mindboggling to see how many people take the murder of 6 million Jews for granted and even start insulting anyone who dares criticising it... even though the evidence does not support those claims. The masses truely have become the slaves of their TV-set, feeding them lie after lie.
 
Out of the Box:

Why do you feel the need to advertise your IQ score in your signature?
Do you believe it adds "credibility" to your posts?

Just curious.
 
Serious questions were asked regarding the gas chambers on this thread.
To ponder this question objectively, we must take note of Faurisson's exposé on The Problem of the Gas Chambers.
Le problème des chambres à gaz: _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyMQHd9C2sU
 
Judas Saduj said:
Serious questions were asked regarding the gas chambers on this thread.
To ponder this question objectively, we must take note of Faurisson's exposé on The Problem of the Gas Chambers.
Le problème des chambres à gaz: _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyMQHd9C2sU

For those of us who do not understand French, could you summarize the main points of his argument?
 
PepperFritz said:
Judas Saduj said:
Serious questions were asked regarding the gas chambers on this thread.
To ponder this question objectively, we must take note of Faurisson's exposé on The Problem of the Gas Chambers.
Le problème des chambres à gaz: _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyMQHd9C2sU

For those of us who do not understand French, could you summarize the main points of his argument?

Argh, I went to check the video and it says "this video is not available in your country" (France). Faurisson was condemned several times for denying the Shoah. :evil: :ban:.
 
There are a number of problems with the approach of the "Holocaust Revisionists," among them being their lack of knowledge of Ponerology. Also, there is the ever present urge to "normalize" things - to explain the unprecedented by precedent. Holocaust Revisionists remind me a great deal of Christian apologists. And, as I have said, that's not to say that those who "write the history" (i.e. the victors) are telling the truth either.

But, if you look at it the same way many "truth seekers" look at 9-11, and particularly, with some knowledge of Ponerology, it is possible to come to some idea of the truth.

Oh, of course, I am aware that the numbers of the dead have been changed in recent years based on some legitimate research, but I think that concentrating on that is a red herring. The numbers were still enormous, and many of the Jews themselves were still involved in the holocaust - collaborators and helpers and traitors. Much of the spin put on the Holocaust is mainly to cover up THIS fact, not necessarily what happened, etc.

Having said that, I seriously doubt that the Red Cross was permitted to collect data on what the Nazis were really doing the same way we observe that no human rights organizations are really allowed to get the scoop from the Bush Administration about Guantanamo and the secret prisons. Hannah Arendt points out that there were "show concentration camps" where "observers" were allowed and they were completely different from the death/slave labor camps.

Arendt said:
...Theresienstadt actually came to serve another purpose, that of a showplace for the outside world - it was the only ghetto or camp to which representatives of the International Red Cross were admitted...

She also discusses the fact, already mentioned, that records were destroyed with some urgency during the last year of the war when many of the high-ranking Nazis knew that it was lost and they were seeking to make things easier for themselves afterward. The fact that many of them went on to high positions in the post war government and society, or, at the very least, lived prosperous lives, suggests that they were mostly successful. This is a point that Nemo made also, from direct experience and knowledge.

There is also another issue here: much of the information about the processes of the death camp came from prisoners being tried at Nuremberg, as well as Eichmann's trial in Jerusalem. Arendt combed through all this material to write her book. Naturally, the prisoners tended to cast the blame on others of their own kind who were dead or missing, trying to save themselves. But the details of systems, ways and means, numbers, destruction of records, etc, came directly from the perpetrators and I don't think they were being tortured to give these responses. So, we can perhaps rely on them to some extent.

Arendt said:
On June 22, 1941, Hitler launched his attack on the Soviet Union, and six or eight weeks later Eichmann was summoned to Heydrich's office in Berlin. On July 31, Heydrich had received a letter from Reichsmarschall Hermann Goering, Commander-in-Chief of the Air Force, Prime Minister of Prussia, Pleinipotentiary for the Four-Year-Plan, and last, but not least, Hitler's Deputy in the State (as distinguished from the Party) hierarchy. The letter commissioned Heydrich to prepare "the general solution of the Jewish question within the area of German influence in Europe," and to submit "a general proposal ... for the implementation of the desired final solution of the Jewish question." At the time Heydrich received these instructions, he had already been - as he was to explain to the High Command of the Army in a letter dated November 6, 1941 - "entrusted for years with the task of preparing the final solution of the Jewish problem" (Reitlinger), and since the beginning of the war with Russia, he had been in charge of the mass killings by the Einsatzgruppen in the East.

[According to Eichmann's sworn testimony] Heydrich opened his interview with Eichmann with "a little speech about emigration" (which had practically ceased, though Himmler's formal order prohibiting all Jewish emigration except in special cases, to be passed upon by him personally, was not issued until a few months later), and then said:

Eichmann said:
"The Fuhrer has ordered the physical extermination of the Jews." After which, "very much against his habits, he remained silent for a long while, as though he wanted to test the impact of his words. I remember it even today. In the first moment, I was unable to grasp the significance of what he had said, because he was so careful in choosing his words, and then I understood, and didn't say anything, because there was nothing to say any more. For I had never thought of such a thing, such a solution through violence. I now lost everything, all joy in my work, all initiative, all interest; I was, so to speak, blown out. And then he told me: "Eichmann, you go and see Globocnik [one of Himmler's Higher S.S. and Police Leaders in the General Government] in Lublin, the Reichsfuhrer (Himmler) has already given him the necessary orders, have a look at what he has accomplished in the meantime. I think he uses the Russian tank trenches for the liquidation of the Jews." I still remember that, for I'll never forget it no matter how long I live, those sentences he said during that interview, which was already at an end."

Actually, as Eichmann still remembered in Argentina, but had forgotten in Jerusalem, much to his disadvantage, since it had bearing on the question of his own authority in the actual killing process - Heydrich had said a little more: he had told Eichmann that the whole enterprise had been "put under the authority of the S.S. Head Office for Economy and Administration", that is, not of his own R.S.H.A., and also that the official code name for extermination was to be "Final Solution." [...]

By March, 1941, about six months before Eichmann had his interview with Heydrich, "it was no secret in higher Party circles that the Jews were to be exterminated," as Viktor Brack, of the Fuhrer's Chancellery, Testified at Nuremberg.

But Eichmann, as he vainly tried to explain in Jerusalem, had never belonged to the higher Party circles; he had never been told more than he needed to know in order to do a specific, limited job. It is true that he was one of the first men in the lower echelons to be informed of this "top secret" matter, which remained top secret even after the news had spread throughout all the party and state officers, all business enterprises connected with slave labor, and the entire officer corps of the Armed forces. Still, the secrecy did have a practical purpose.

Those who were told explicitly of the Fuhrer's order were no longer mere "bearers of orders," but were advanced to "bearers of secrets," and a special oath was administered to them. ... Furthermore, all correspondence referring to the matter was subject to rigid "language rules," and except in the reports from the Einsatzgruppen, it is rare to find documents in which such bald words as "extermination," "liquidation," or "killing" occur. ...

Under special circumstance, slight changes in the language rules became necessary... Only among themselves could the "bearers of secrets" talk in uncoded language.

For whatever other reasons the language rules may have been devised, they proved of enormous help in the maintenance of order and sanity in the various widely diversified services whose cooperation was essential in this matter.

Moreover, the very term "language rule" was itself a code name; it meant what in ordinary language would be called a lie. For when a "bearer of secrets" was sent to meet someone from the outside world - as when Eichmann was sent to show the Theresienstadt ghetto to International Red Cross representatives from Switzerland - he received, together with his orders, his "language rule," which in this instance consisted of a lie about a nonexistent typhus epidemic in the concentration camp of Bergen-Belsen, which the gentlemen also wished to visit. The net effect of this language system was not to keep these people ignorant of what they were doing, but to prevent them from equating it with their old, "normal'" knowledge of murder and lies. Eichmann's great susceptibility to catch words and stock phrases, combined with his incapacity for ordinary speech, made him, of course, and ideal subject for "language rules." [...]

These remarks about "language rules" are particularly interesting when one considers what Lobaczewski wrote on the topic. I think it is useful, at this point, to digress a bit and consider a broad overview of the phenomena as described in Political Ponerology, with a bit of emphasis on ideology, doubletalk, and the nature of the individuals that are involved in such phenomena. Only in this way will we have an idea of how the deceptions are manifested.

Lobaczewski said:
An ideology of a secondarily ponerogenic association is formed by gradual adaptation of the primary ideology to functions and goals other than the original formative ones. A certain kind of layering or schizophrenia of ideology takes place during the ponerization process. The outer layer closest to the original content is used for the group’s propaganda purposes, especially regarding the outside world, although it can in part also be used inside with regard to disbelieving lower-echelon members. The second layer presents the elite with no problems of comprehension: it is more hermetic, generally composed by slipping a different meaning into the same names. Since identical names signify different contents depending on the layer in question, understanding this “doubletalk” requires simultaneous fluency in both languages.

Average people succumb to the first layer’s suggestive insinuations for a long time before they learn to understand the second one as well. Anyone with certain psychological deviations, especially if he is wearing the mask of normality with which we are already familiar, immediately perceives the second layer to be attractive and significant; after all, it was built by people like him. Comprehending this doubletalk is therefore a vexatious task, provoking quite understandable psychological resistance; this very duality of language, however, is a pathognomonic symptom indicating that the human union in question is touched by the ponerogenic process to an advanced degree. [...]

As long as the characteropathic individuals play a dominant role within a social movement affected by the ponerogenic process, the ideology, whether doctrinaire from the outset or later vulgarized and further perverted by these latter people, continues to keep and maintain its content link with the original prototype. The ideology continuously affects the movement’s activities and remains an essential justifying motivation for many. In this phase, therefore, such a union does not move in the direction of criminal acts on a mass scale. To a certain extent, at this stage, one can still define such a movement or union by the name of its original ideology.

In the meantime, however, the carriers of other (mainly hereditary) pathological factors become engaged in this already sick social movement and proceed with the work of final transformation of the contents – both ideological and human - of such a union in such a way that it becomes a pathological caricature of its original ideology. This is effected under the ever-growing influence of psychopathic personalities of various types, with particular emphasis on the inspiration role of essential psychopathy.

Such a situation eventually engenders a wholesale showdown: the adherents of the original ideology are shunted aside or terminated. (This group includes many characteropaths, especially of the lesser and paranoidal varieties.) The ideological motivations and the double talk they created then are utilized to hide the actual new contents of the phenomenon. From this time on, using the ideological name of the movement in order to understand its essence becomes a keystone of mistakes.

Psychopathic individuals generally stay away from social organizations characterized by reason and ethical discipline. After all, such organizations are created by that other world of normal people so foreign to them. They hold various social ideologies in contempt, while, at the same time, easily discerning all their actual failings. However, once the process of poneric transformation of some human union into its yet undefined cartoon counterpart has begun and advanced sufficiently, they perceive this fact with almost infallible sensitivity: a circle has been created wherein they can hide their failings and psychological differentness, find their own modus vivendi, and maybe even realize their youthful Utopian dream of a world where they are in power and all those other, “normal people”, are forced into servitude. They then begin infiltrating the rank and file of such a movement; pretending to be sincere adherents poses no difficulty for the psychopath, since it is second nature for them to play a role and hide behind the mask of normal people. [...]

They initially perform subordinate functions in such a movement and execute the leaders’ orders, especially whenever something needs to be done which inspires revulsion in others. Their evident zealotry and cynicism gives rise to criticism on the part of the union’s more reasonable members, but it also earns the respect of some its more extreme revolutionaries. They thus find protection among those people who earlier played a role in the movement’s ponerization, and repay the favor with compliments or by making things easier for them. Thus they climb up the organizational ladder, gain influence, and almost involuntarily bend the contents of the entire group to their own way of experiencing reality and to the goals derived from their deviant nature. A mysterious disease is already raging inside the union. The adherents of the original ideology feel ever more constricted by powers they do not understand; they start fighting with demons and making mistakes. [...]

An ever-strengthening network of psychopathic and related individuals gradually starts to dominate, overshadowing the others. Characteropathic individuals who played an essential role in ponerizing the movement and preparing for revolution, are also eliminated. Adherents of the revolutionary ideology are unscrupulously “pushed into a counter-revolutionary position”. They are now condemned for “moral” reasons in the name of new criteria whose paramoralistic essence they are not in a position to comprehend. Violent negative selection of the original group now ensues. The inspirational role of essential psychopathy is now also consolidated; it remains characteristic for the entire future of this macrosocial pathological phenomenon. [...]

The entire life of a society thus affected then becomes subordinated to deviant thought-criteria and permeated by their specific experiential mode, especially the one described in the section on essential psychopathy. At this point, using the name of the original ideology to designate this phenomenon is meaningless and becomes an error rendering its comprehension more difficult. [...]

In a pathocracy, all leadership positions, (down to village headman and community cooperative managers, not to mention the directors of police units, and special services police personnel, and activists in the pathocratic party) must be filled by individuals with corresponding psychological deviations, which are inherited as a rule. However, such people constitute a very small percentage of the population and this makes them more valuable to the pathocrats. Their intellectual level or professional skills cannot be taken into account, since people representing superior abilities are even harder to find. After such a system has lasted several years, one hundred percent of all the cases of essential psychopathy are involved in pathocratic activity; they are considered the most loyal, even though some of them were formerly involved on the other side in some way.

Under such conditions, no area of social life can develop normally, whether in economics, culture, science, technology, administration, etc. Pathocracy progressively paralyzes everything. [...]

Those people who initially found the original ideology attractive eventually come to the realization that they are in fact dealing with something else that has taken its place under the old name. The disillusionment experienced by such former ideological adherents is bitter in the extreme. [...]

Therefore, to mitigate the threat to their power, the pathocrats must employ any and all methods of terror and exterminatory policies against individuals known for their patriotic feelings and military training; other, specific “indoctrination” activities such as those we have presented are also utilized. Individuals lacking the natural feeling of being linked to normal society become irreplaceable in either of these activities. Again, the foreground of this type of activity is occupied by cases of essential psychopathy, followed by those with similar anomalies, and finally by people alienated from the society in question as a result of racial or national differences. [...]

The phenomenon of pathocracy matures during this period: an extensive and active indoctrination system is built, with a suitably refurbished ideology constituting the vehicle or Trojan horse for the purpose of pathologizing the thought processes of individuals and society. The goal - forcing human minds to incorporate pathological experiential methods and thought-patterns, and consequently accepting such rule - is never openly admitted. This goal is conditioned by pathological egotism, and the possibility of accomplishing it strikes the pathocrats as not only indispensable, but feasible. Thousands of activists must therefore participate in this work. However, time and experience confirm what a psychologist may have long foreseen: the entire effort produces results so very limited that it is reminiscent of the labors of Sisyphus. It only results in producing a general stifling of intellectual development and deep-rooted protest against affront-mongering “hypocrisy”. The authors and executors of this program are incapable of understanding that the decisive factor making their work difficult is the fundamental nature of normal human beings – the majority. [...]

The entire system of force, terror, and forced indoctrination, or, rather, pathologization, thus proves effectively unfeasible, which causes the pathocrats no small measure of surprise. Reality places a question mark on their conviction that such methods can change people in such fundamental ways so that they can eventually recognize this pathocratic kind of government as a “normal state”.

During the initial shock, the feeling of social links between normal people fade. After that has been survived, however, the overwhelming majority of people begin to manifest their own phenomenon of psychological immunization. Society simultaneously starts collecting practical knowledge on the subject of this new reality and its psychological properties. [...]

A new phenomenon occurs: separation between the pathocrats and the society of normal people. The latter have an advantage of talent, professional skills, and healthy common sense. They therefore hold certain very advantageous cards. The pathocracy finally realizes that it must find some modus vivendi or relations with the majority of society: “After all, somebody’s got to do the work for us.”

There are other needs and pressures felt by the pathocrats, especially from outside. The pathological face must be hidden from the world somehow, since recognition of the deviant rulership by world opinion would be a catastrophe. Ideological propaganda alone would then be an inadequate disguise. Primarily in the interests of the new elite and its expansionary plans, a pathocratic state must maintain commercial relations with the countries of normal man. The pathocratic state aims to achieve international recognition as a certain kind of political structure; and it fears recognition in terms of a true clinical diagnosis.

All this makes pathocrats tend to limit their measures of terror, subjecting their propaganda and indoctrination methods to a certain cosmetology, and to accord the society they control some margin of autonomous activity, especially regarding cultural life. [...]

In this phase, normal people within the country ruled by pathocrats become resistant and adapt themselves to the situation. On the outside, however, this phase is marked by outstanding ponerogenic activity. The pathological material of this system can all-too-easily infiltrate into other societies, particularly if they are more primitive, and all the avenues of pathocratic expansion are facilitated because of the decrease of commonsensical criticism on the part of the nations constituting the territory of expansionism. [...]

Individuals with obvious pathological traits are also limited in their ability to exercise diplomatic functions or to become fully cognizant with the political situations of the countries of normal man. Therefore, the persons selected for such positions are chosen because they have thought-processes more similar to the world of normal people; in general, they are sufficiently connected to the pathological system to provide a guarantee of loyalty. An expert in various psychological anomalies can nevertheless discern the discreet deviations upon which such links are based. Another factor to be noted is the great personal advantages accorded to such demi-normal individuals by the pathocracy. [...]

Similar needs apply to other areas as well. The building director for a new factory is often someone barely connected with the pathocratic system but whose skills are essential. Once the plant is operational, administration is taken over by pathocrats, which then often leads to technical and financial ruin.

The army similarly needs people endowed with perspicacity and essential qualifications, especially in the area of modern weapons and warfare. At crucial moments, healthy common sense can override the results of pathocratic drill. In such a state of affairs, many people are forced to adapt, accepting the ruling system as a status quo, but also criticizing it. They fulfill their duties amid doubts and conflicts of conscience, always searching for a more sensible way out which they discuss within trusted circles. In effect, they are always hanging in a limbo between pathocracy and the world of normal people. [...]

The following questions thus suggest themselves: what happens if the network of understanding among psychopaths achieves power in leadership positions with international exposure? This can happen, especially during the later phases of the phenomenon. Goaded by their character, such deviant people thirst for just that even though it ultimately conflicts with their own life interest, and so they are removed by the less pathological, more logical wing of the ruling apparatus. Such deviants do not understand that a catastrophe would otherwise ensue. Germs are not aware that they will be burned alive or buried deep in the ground along with the human body whose death they are causing. [...]

It should be noted that a great ideology with mesmerizing values can also easily deprive people of the capacity for self-critical control over their behavior. The adherents of such ideas tend to lose sight of the fact that the means used, not just the end, will be decisive for the result of their activities. Whenever they reach for overly radical methods of action, still convinced that they are serving their idea, they are not aware that their goal has already changed. The principle “the end justifies the means” opens the door to a different kind of person for whom a great idea is useful for purposes of liberating themselves from the uncomfortable pressure of normal human custom. Every great ideology thus contains danger, especially for small minds. Therefore, every great social movement and its ideology can become a host upon which some pathocracy initiates its parasitic life. [...]

Differentiating the essence of the pathological phenomenon from its contemporary ideological host is thus a basic and necessary task, both for scientific-theoretical purposes and for finding practical solutions for the problems derived from the existence of the above-mentioned macrosocial phenomena.

If, in order to designate a pathological phenomenon, we accept the name furnished by the ideology of a social movement which succumbed to degenerative processes, we lose any ability to understand or evaluate that ideology and its original contents or to effect proper classification of the phenomenon, per se. This error is not semantic; it is the keystone of all other comprehension errors regarding such phenomena, rendering us intellectually helpless, and depriving us of our capacity for purposeful, practical action. [...]

The ideology of pathocracy is created by caricaturizing the original ideology of a social movement in a manner characteristic of that particular pathological phenomenon. The above-mentioned hysteroidal states of societies also deform the contemporary ideologies of the times in question, using a style characteristic for them. [...]

A pathocracy’s ideology changes its function, just as occurs with a mentally ill person’s delusional system. It stops being a human conviction outlining methods of action and takes on other duties which are not openly defined. It becomes a disguising story concealing the new reality from people’s critical consciousness, both inside and outside one’s nation. The first function – a conviction outlining methods of action - soon becomes ineffective for two reasons: on the one hand, reality exposes the methods of action as unworkable; on the other hand, the masses of common people notice the contemptuous attitude toward the ideology represented by the pathocrats themselves. For that reason, the main operational theater for the ideology consists of nations remaining outside the immediate ambit of the pathocracy, since that world tends to continue believing in ideologies. The ideology thus becomes the instrument for external action ...

Psychopaths are conscious of being different from normal people. That is why the “political system” inspired by their nature is able to conceal this awareness of being different. They wear a personal mask of sanity and know how to create a macrosocial mask of the same dissimulating nature. When we observe the role of ideology in this macrosocial phenomenon, quite conscious of the existence of this specific awareness of the psychopath, we can then understand why ideology is relegated to a tool-like role: something useful in dealing with those other naive people and nations. Pathocrats must nevertheless appreciate the function of ideology as being something essential in any ponerogenic group, especially in the macrosocial phenomenon which is their “homeland”. This factor of awareness simultaneously constitutes a certain qualitative difference between the two above-mentioned relationships. Pathocrats know that their real ideology is derived from their deviant natures, and treat the “other” – the masking ideology - with barely concealed contempt. And the common people eventually begin to perceive this as noted above. [...]

Thus, a well-developed pathocratic system no longer has a clear and direct relationship to its original ideology, which it only keeps as its primary, traditional tool for action and masking. For practical purposes of pathocratic expansion, other ideologies may be useful, even if they contradict the main one and heap moral denunciation upon it. However, these other ideologies must be used with care, refraining from official acknowledgement within environments wherein the original ideology can be made to appear too foreign, discredited, and useless.

The main ideology succumbs to symptomatic deformation, in keeping with the characteristic style of this very disease and with what has already been stated about the matter. The names and official contents are kept, but another, completely different content is insinuated underneath, thus giving rise to the well known double talk phenomenon within which the same names have two meanings: one for initiates, one for everyone else. The latter is derived from the original ideology; the former has a specifically pathocratic meaning, something which is known not only to the pathocrats themselves, but also is learned by those people living under long-term subjection to their rule.

Doubletalk is only one of many symptoms. Others are the specific facility for producing new names which have suggestive effects and are accepted virtually uncritically, in particular outside the immediate scope of such a system’s rule. We must thus point out the paramoralistic character and paranoidal qualities frequently contained within these names. The action of paralogisms and paramoralisms in this deformed ideology becomes comprehensible to us based on the information presented in Chapter IV. Anything which threatens pathocratic rule becomes deeply immoral. This also applies to the concept of forgiving the pathocrats themselves; it is extremely dangerous and thus “immoral”.

Now that we have a fairly good picture of the type of critter we are looking at, we are better equipped to evaluate both the history of the "victors" as well as the history of the "revisionists" who may very well be doing "damage control" for the former. After all, one must combat the ever-growing awareness of the Zionist participation in the Holocaust - even the possibility of the exposure of the Zionists as the moving force behind it. Keep in mind:

For practical purposes of pathocratic expansion, other ideologies may be useful, even if they contradict the main one and heap moral denunciation upon it. However, these other ideologies must be used with care, refraining from official acknowledgement within environments wherein the original ideology can be made to appear too foreign, discredited, and useless.

So, returning to Arendt's book about Eichmann in Jerusalem:

Arendt said:
Hess himself testified at his own trial that he had received his orders directly from Himmler, in June, 1941, and added that Himmler had told him Eichmann would discuss with him certain “details." These details, Hess claimed in his memoirs, concerned the use of gas - something Eichmann strenuously denied. And he was probably right, for all other sources contradict Hess’s story and maintain that written or oral extermination orders in the camps always went [via different channels]. ... And with the use of gas Eichmann had nothing whatever to do. The "details" that he went to discuss with Hess at regular intervals concerned the killing capacity of the camp - how many shipments per week it could absorb ....

So, here we have Hess talking about "gassing" and claiming that the details came to him from Eichmann, which Eichmann denies. Other sources indicate that Eichmann was telling the truth that he had nothing to do with ways and means of killing, but only with transporting victims to the camps, most particularly, organizing the rounding up of Jews with the help of the Judenrate. He had close relations with these Jewish organizations which did his work for him. Notice that no one is denying the use of gas - of some sort - including Eichmann, as we will see.

Arendt said:
Globocnik, when Eichmann arrived at Lublin, was very obliging, and showed him around... They came to a road through a forest... Christian Wirth... came to greet them, led them to a few small wooden bungalows, and began,

Eichmann said:
... "in a vulgar uneducated harsh voice," his explanations: "how he had everything nicely insulated, for the engine of a Russian submarine will be set to work and the gases will enter this building and the Jews will be poisoned. For me, too, this was monstrous. I am not so tough as to be able to endure something of this sort without any reaction... "

Well, he had been lucky, for he had still seen only the preparations for the future carbon-monoxide chambers at Treblinka, one of the six death camps in the East, in which several hundred thousand people were to die.

The issue of Treblinka is a contentious one as we will soon see.

Shortly after this, in the autumn of the same year, he was sent by his direct superior Mueller to inspect the killing center in the Western Regions of Poland that had been incorporated into the Reich, called the Warthegau. The death camp was at Kulm (Chelmno), where, in 1944, over three hundred thousand Jews from all over Europe who had first been "resettled" in the Lodz ghetto, were killed.

Here things were already in full swing, but the method was different; instead of gas chambers, mobile gas vans were used. This is what Eichmann saw: The Jews were in a large room; they were told to strip; then a truck arrived, stopping directly before the entrance to the room, and the naked Jews were told to enter it. The doors were closed and the truck started off. "I cannot tell [how many Jews entered], I hardly looked. I could not; I could not; I had had enough. The shrieking, and... I was much too upset, and so on, as I later told Mueller when I reported to him; he did not get much profit out of my report. I then drove along after the van, and then I saw the most horrible sigh I had thus far seen in my life. The truck was making for an open ditch, the doors were opened, and the corpses were thrown out, as though they were still alive, so smooth were their limbs. They were hurled into the ditch, and I can still see a civilian extracting the teeth with tooth pliers. And then I was off - jumped into my car and did not open my mouth any more. After that time, I could sit for hours beside my driver without exchanging a word with him. There I got enough. I was finished. I only remember that a physician in white overalls told me to look through a hole into the truck while they were still in it. I refused to do that. I could not. I had to disappear."

The following is the argument against the diesel gassings:

“Most Nazi gassings were supposedly committed with diesel exhaust rather than Zyklon B… a working draft paper authored by Walter Lüftl, President of the Austrian Federal Chamber of Engineers, described mass murder with diesel exhaust as a “sheer impossibility.” He substantiated his view as to the relative harmlessness of diesel exhaust… there are no known deaths in cars or trucks with diesel engines! Every night across the world, tens of thousands of truck drivers sleep in their truck cabs with the diesel engines running throughout the night – there is no evidence of even one trucker dying

I don't think I have to point out the absurdity of the argument. Of course, people in diesel vehicles don't die... unless, of course, there are special modifications made to introduce the carbon monoxide into the vehicle. That ought not to be too hard to figure out.

Anyway, the point is that these things were talked about in trial testimony, confessed to by people who had nothing to gain by lying about the events, and only were caught repeatedly placing responsibility on others to save their own hides.

Arendt said:
Very soon after that, he was to see something more horrible. This happened when he was sent to Minsk, in White Russia, again by Mueller, who told him: "In Minsk, they are killing Jews by shooting. I want you to report on how it is being done." So he went.... While driving back he had the notion of stopping at Lwow (Lemberg, Austria)... He went to see the local S.S. commander and told him: "Well it is horrible what is being done around here; I said young people are being made into sadists. How can one do that? Simply bang away at women and children" That is impossible. Our people will go mad or become insane, our own people"

The trouble was that at Lwow, they were doing the same thing they had been doing in Minsk, and his host was delighted to show him the sights, although Eichmann tried politely to excuse himself. Thus, he saw another "horrible sight."

Eichmann said:
A ditch had been there, which was already filled in. And there was, gushing from the earth, a spring of blood like a fountain. Such a thing I had never seen before. I had had enough of my commission, and I went back to Berlin and reported to Gruppenfuhrer Mueller." ....

Mueller, some nine months later, sent him back to the Lublin region where the very enthusiastic Globocnik had meanwhile finished his preparations. Eichmann said that this now was the most horrible thing he had ever seen in his life. When he first arrived, he could not recognize the place, with its few wooden bungalows. Instead, guided by the same ma with the vulgar voice, he came to a railway station, with the sign "Treblnka" on it, that looked exactly like an ordinary station anywhere in Germany... "I kept myself back, as far as I could, I did not draw near to see all that. Still, I saw how a column of naked Jews filed into a large hall to be gassed. There they were killed, as I was told, by something called cyanic acid." [...]

For example:

A detailed forensic examination of the site of the wartime Treblinka camp, using sophisticated electronic ground radar, has found no evidence of mass graves there. For six days in October 1999, an Australian forensics team headed by Richard Krege, a qualified electronics engineer, carried out an examination of the soil at the site of the former Treblinka II camp in Poland where, holocaust historians claim, 870,000 Jews were put to death in gas chambers and then buried in huge mass graves. Krege said: “From these scans we could clearly identify the largely undisturbed horizontal stratigraphic layering, better known as horizons, of the soil under the camp site. We know from scans of gravesites and other sites with known soil disturbances, such as quarries, when this natural layering is massively disrupted or missing altogether. Because normal geological processes are very slow acting, disruption of the soil structure would have been detectable even after 60 years. Historians say that the bodies were exhumed and cremated toward the end of the Treblinka camp’s use in 1943, but we found no indication that any mass graves ever existed.”

According to the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (1997), “a total of 870,000 people” were allegedly killed and buried at Treblinka between July 1942 and April 1943. Then, between April and July 1943, the hundreds of thousands of corpses were allegedly dug up and burned on large grids made of railroad rails. Krege’s team used an $80,000.00 GROUND PENETRATION RADAR (GPR) device, which sends out vertical radar signals that are visible on a computer monitor. GPR detects any large-scale disturbances in the soil structure to a normal effective depth of four or five meters, and sometimes up to ten meters. (GPR is routinely used around the world by geologists, archeologists and police.) In its Treblinka investigation, the team carefully examined the entire Treblinka II site, especially the alleged “mass graves” portion, but found no evidence of individual graves, bone remains, human ashes or wood ashes. (IHR)

The problem with the above claims is that there really is no definitive evidence of where, exactly, Treblinka was.

Probably a better approach would be to try to understand the nature of the problem and go about looking for data in a more rational way.


Arendt said:
The fact is that Eichmann did not see much. It is true, he repeatedly visited Auschwitz... but Auschwitz, covering an area of eighteen square miles, was by no means only an extermination camp; it was a huge enterprise with up to a hundred thousand inmates, and all kinds of prisoners were held there, including non-Jews and slave laborers, who were not subject to gassing. It was easy to avoid the killing installations, and Hess, with whom he had a very friendly relationship, spared him the gruesome sights. He never actually attended a mass execution by shooting, he never actually watched the gassing process, or the selection of those fit for work ... He saw just enough to be fully informed of how the destruction machinery worked: that there were two different methods of killing, shooting and gassing; that the shooting was done by the Einstazgruppen and the gassing at the camps, either in chambers or in mobile vans; and in the camps elaborate precautions were taken to fool the victims right up to the end.

The police tapes from which I have quoted were played in court... Nothing that the accused said ... was denied either by him or by the defense. ... The facts of the case ... had been confessed to by him over and over again. ... But since he had been employed in transportation and not in killing, the question remained, legally, formally, at least, of whether he had known what he was doing; and there was the additional question of whether he had been in a position to judge the enormity of his deeds ... Both questions now were answered in the affirmative: he had seen the places to which the shipments were directed, and he had been shocked out of his wits.

From "Eichmann in Jerusalem" by Hannah Arendt

In short, when you examine both sides of the issue, you find that the numbers are not that important - probably as many Jews died as are claimed - or even more - with the able assistance of the Zionists and the Judenrat. If so-called Holocaust Revisionists want to take on a really hot topic, that's the one they should pursue: Jewish complicity in the Holocaust.
 
Faurisson's video is very meticulous and convincing. To put it succintly, he claims that the Auchwitz gas chamber are but a lie, and he gives the reasons why he thinks it was impossible for them to have used gas chambers in the first place.

First because it is very complicated to gas one criminal (very long and meticulous protocol in near 50 steps, for safety reasons). Second, that there were delousing gas chambers using Zyklon B in order to kill lice in clothes, thus preventing typhus epidemia. Third, that the chambers shown in Auchwitz could not have been gas chambers, and that they looked exactly like a morgue. As for the big smoking Chimney, other revisionists like Frederik Toben showed was not even connected to the crematories, it was built (for propaganda purpose?) right beside the building! In his trial, Zundel claimed that cremation experts know that cremation bodies do not make smoke. And even less colored smoke - one color for every nationality of burning Jews (what a ridiculous idea !)... By the way, I read The Great Holocaust Trial by Michael A. Hoffman II, about the Zundel case. Very good book for introduction to revisionism. Maybe you can watch the video, can you? _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQJBoh-ZSPE


So, people in France can't watch his videos ? Interesting.


I would have liked to get Laura's (or anybody in the SOTT team) thoughts about Faurisson's arguments.
 
Laura said:
If so-called Holocaust Revisionists want to take on a really hot topic, that's the one they should pursue: Jewish complicity in the Holocaust.

Here's Gilad Atzmon's take on this (From Esther To AIPAC):

The American Marxist historian Lenni Brenner is fascinated by the collaboration between Zionists and Nazism. In his book Zionism In The Age of Dictators he presents an extract from Rabbi Joachim Prinz’s book published in 1937 after Rabbi Prinz left Germany for America.

“Everyone in Germany knew that only the Zionists could responsibly represent the Jews in dealings with the Nazi government. We all felt sure that one day the government would arrange a round table conference with the Jews, at which -- after the riots and atrocities of the revolution had passed -- the new status of German Jewry could be considered. The government announced very solemnly that there was no country in the world which tried to solve the Jewish problem as seriously as did Germany. Solution of the Jewish question? It was our Zionist dream! We never denied the existence of the Jewish question! Dissimilation? It was our own appeal! ... In a statement notable for its pride and dignity, we called for a conference.” [11]

Brenner then brings in extracts from a Memorandum that was sent to the Nazi Party by the German Zionist ZVfD on 21 June 1933:

“Zionism has no illusions about the difficulty of the Jewish condition, which consists above all in an abnormal occupational pattern and in the fault of an intellectual and moral posture not rooted in one’s own tradition...

….On the foundation of the new state, which has established the principle of race, we wish so to fit our community into the total structure so that for us too, in the sphere assigned to us, fruitful activity for the Fatherland is possible.

... Our acknowledgement of Jewish nationality provides for a clear and sincere relationship to the German people and its national and racial realities. Precisely because we do not wish to falsify these fundamentals, because we, too, are against mixed marriage and are for maintaining the purity of the Jewish group...

… We believe in the possibility of an honest relationship of loyalty between a group-conscious Jewry and the German state...” [12]

Brenner doesn’t approve either of Prinz’s take nor the Zionist initiative. Filled with loathing he says, “This document, a treason to the Jews of Germany, was written in standard Zionist clichés: ‘abnormal occupational pattern’, ‘rootless intellectuals greatly in need of moral regeneration’, etc. In it the German Zionists offered calculated collaboration between Zionism and Nazism, hallowed by the goal of a Jewish state: we shall wage no battle against thee, only against those that would resist thee.”

Sadly enough, being imprisoned by working class dogmatism and lacking the necessary academic practice of cross cultural historical examination, Brenner fails to see the obvious. Rabbi Prinz and the ZVfD were not traitors, they were actually genuine Jews. They followed their very Jewish cultural code. They followed the Book of Esther, they took the role of Mordechai. They tried to find a way to collaborate with what they correctly identified as a prominent emerging power. In 1969, Rabbi Prinz confessed that ever “since the assassination of Walther Rathenau in 1922, there was no doubt in our minds that the German development would be toward an anti-Semitic totalitarian regime. When Hitler began to arouse, and as he put it ‘awaken’ the German nation to racial consciousness and racial superiority, we had no doubt that this man would sooner or later become the leader of the German nation.” [13]

Whether Brenner or anyone else likes it or not, Rabbi Prinz proves to be an authentic Jewish leader. He proves to possess some highly developed survival radar mechanism that fit perfectly well with the exilic ideology. In 1981 Lenni Brenner interviewed Rabbi Prinz. Here is what he had to say about the collaborator Rabbi:

“(Prinz) dramatically evolved in the 44 years since he was expelled from Germany. He told me, off tape, that he soon realized that nothing he said there made sense in the US. He became an American liberal. Eventually, as head of the American Jewish Congress, he was asked to march with Martin Luther King and he did so.”

Once again, Brenner fails to see the obvious. Prinz didn’t change at all. Prinz didn’t evolve in those 44 years. He was and remained a genuine authentic Jew, and an extremely clever one. A man who internalised the essence of Jewish émigré philosophy: In Germany be a German, and in America be American. Be flexible, fit in and adopt relativistic ethical thinking. Prinz, being a devoted follower of Mordechai, realised that whatever is good for the Jews is simply good.

I went back and listened to the invaluable Brenner interviews with Rabbi Prinz that are now available on line. [14] I was rather shocked to find out that actually Prinz presents his position eloquently. It is Prinz rather than Brenner who provides us a glimpse into Jewish ideology and its interaction with the surrounding reality. It is Prinz rather than Brenner who happens to understand the German volk and their aspirations. Prinz presents his past moves as a proud Jew. From his point of view, collaborating with Hitler was indeed the right thing to do. He was following Mordechai, he was probably searching for an Esther to come. Thus, it is only natural that Rabbi Prinz later became the President of the Jewish American Congress. He became a prominent American leader In spite of his ‘collaboration with Hitler’. Simply because of the obvious reason: from a Jewish ideological point of view, he did the right thing.

By the way, I noticed that Faurisson, in his brand new article, seems to says the same thing as Atzmon here:

Note that Faurisson's new article (8 July, 2008) and Gilad Atzmon say basically the same thing about the "Holocaust religion".
Atzmon said:
‘The Holocaust’ is far more than historical narrative, it indeed contains most of the essential religious elements: it has its priests (Simon Wiesenthal, Elie Wiesel, Deborah Lipstadt, etc.) and prophets (Shimon Peres, Benjamin Netanyahu and those who warn about the Iranian Judeocide to come). It has its commandments and dogmas (‘never again’, ’six million’, etc.). It has its rituals (memorial days, Pilgrimage to Auschwitz etc.). It establishes an esoteric symbolic order (kapo, gas chambers, chimneys, dust, Musselmann, etc.). It has its shrines and temples (Yad Vashem, the Holocaust Museum and now the UN). If this is not enough, the Holocaust religion is also maintained by a massive economic network and global financial infrastructures (Holocaust industry a la Norman Finkelstein). Most interestingly, the Holocaust religion is coherent enough to define the new ‘antichrists’ (the Deniers) and it is powerful enough to persecute them (Holocaust denial laws).

Faurisson said:
La religion séculière de « l’Holocauste » est un produit – frelaté – de la société de consommation
(approx. translation: The secular religion of "Holocaust" is an adulterated product of the consumerist society)
_http://www.thecivicplatform.com/2008/08/08/la-religion-seculiere-de-%c2%ab-l%e2%80%99holocauste-%c2%bb-est-un-produit-%e2%80%93-frelate-%e2%80%93-de-la-societe-de-consommation

La religion de « l’Holocauste » est séculière : elle appartient au monde laïque ; elle est profane ; elle dispose, dans les faits, du bras séculier, c’est-à-dire d’une autorité temporelle au pouvoir redouté. Elle a son dogme, ses commandements, ses décrets, ses prophètes et ses grands prêtres. Ainsi que l’a fait remarquer un révisionniste, elle a sa galerie de saints et de saintes dont, par exemple, sainte Anne (Frank), saint Simon (Wiesenthal) et saint Elie (Wiesel). Elle a ses lieux saints, ses rituels et ses pèlerinages. Elle a ses édifices sacrés (macabres) et ses reliques (sous la forme de savonnettes, de chaussures, de brosses à dents, …). Elle a ses martyrs, ses héros, ses miracles et ses miraculés (par millions), sa légende dorée et ses justes. Auschwitz est son Golgotha. Pour elle, Dieu s’appelle Yahweh, protecteur de son peuple élu, qui, comme le précise le psaume 120 de David récemment invoqué par une procureuse, Anne de Fontette, lors d’un procès intenté à un révisionniste français, punit « les lèvres fausses » (soit dit en passant, par l’envoi de « flèches de guerre, barbelées, avec des braises de genêt »). Pour cette religion, Satan se nomme Hitler, condamné, tel Jésus dans le Talmud, à bouillir pour l’éternité dans des excréments. Elle ne connaît ni pitié, ni pardon, ni clémence mais seulement le devoir de vengeance. Elle amasse des fortunes grâce au chantage et à l’extorsion et s’acquiert d’inouïs privilèges. Elle dicte sa loi aux nations. Son cœur bat à Jérusalem, au monument de Yad Vashem, dans un pays conquis sur l’indigène ; à l’abri d’une muraille de 8 mètres de haut destinée à protéger un peuple qui est le sel de la terre, les religionnaires de « l’Holocauste » font régner sur le goy une loi qui est la plus pure expression du militarisme, du racisme et du colonialisme.

Atzmon wouldn't totally agree with the title and thesis of Faurisson's new article. He says quite the reverse: it's not modern, it's as old the Jews.
Far more interesting is the fact that none of the Holocaust religion scholars have spent any energy studying the role of the Holocaust within the long-standing Jewish continuum. From this point onward, I will maintain that Holocaust religion was well established a long time before the Final Solution (1942), well before the Kristallnacht (1938), well before the Nuremberg Laws (1936), well before the first anti-Jewish law was announced by Nazi Germany, well before the American Jewish Congress declared a financial war against Nazi Germany (1933) and even well before Hitler was born (1889). The Holocaust religion is probably as old as the Jews.

Jewish Archetypes

In a previous paper I have defined the notion of ‘Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder’ (Pre-TSD). [7] Within the condition of the Pre-TSD, the stress is the outcome of a phantasmic imaginary episode set in the future, an event that has never taken place. Unlike the Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, in which stress is realised as the direct reaction to an event that (may) have taken place in the past, within the state of Pre-TSD, the stress is formed as the outcome of an imaginary potential event. Within the Pre-TSD an illusion pre-empts the conditions in which the fantasy of future terror is shaping the present reality.

As it seems, the dialectic of fear dominates the Jewish existence as well as mindset far longer than we are ready to admit. Though fright is exploited politically by Jewish ethnic leaders since the early days of emancipation, the dialectic of fear is far older than modern Jewish history. In fact it is the heritage of the Tanach (the Hebrew Bible) that is there to set the Jew in a pre-traumatic state. It is the Hebrew Bible that sets a binary framework of Innocence/Suffering and Persecution/Empowerment. More particularly, the fear of Judeocide is entangled with Jewish spirit, culture and literature.

I would argue here that the Holocaust religion was there to transform the ancient Israelites into Jews.

The American anthropologist Glenn Bowman who specialised in the study of exilic identities offers a crucial insight into the subject of fear and its contribution to the subject of Identity politics. “Antagonism,” says Bowman, “is fundamental to process of fetishization underlying identity, because one tends precisely to talk about who one is or what one is at a moment in which that being seems threatened. I begin to call myself such and such a person, or such and such a representative of an imagined community, at the moment something seems to threaten to disallow the being the name I speak stands in for. Identity terms come into usage at precisely the moment in which for some reason one comes to feel they signifying a being or entity one has to fight to defend.” [8]

In short, Bowman stresses that it is the fear that crystallises the notion of identity. However, once the fear is matured into a state of a collective pre-traumatic stress then identity re-forms itself. When it comes to the Jewish people, it is the Bible that is there to set the Jews within a state of Pre-TSD. It is the Bible that initiates the fear of Judeocide.
 
I coincidently found today an older German newspaper article with a picture which caught my eye and said: "Was ist mit dem israelischen Faschismus? Genauso wie Hitler!" [What about Israeli fascism? The same as Hitler!"] with the headline:
"Der Judenfeind von heute traegt Anzug anstatt Springerstiefel" ["The Jew-hater of today wears a suit instead of combat-boots"]

One note: the article I found is from a local newspaper, where no English translation is provided and with a different picture, so you find different links.


One article has some pictures, which similar statements to that I found: _http://www.welt.de/politik/article2123933/Der_Antisemitismus_in_seinem_neuen_Gewand.html

Picture one: _http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/00593/antisemitismus_neli_593831c.jpg
Translation: "Dead the Jewish murderers in Israel! War criminals."

Picture two: _http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/00593/antisemitismus5_nel_593835c.jpg
Translation: "In memory of 10.000 killed Palestinians"

This article may makes the situation clearer what is going on in Germany and what happens with critical statements against the Israeli politic today. It seems there is always a twist in it.


Here is an English translation of the speech I found in the local newspaper:

_http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/anti-semitism-without-anti-semites

Henryk M. Broder said:
Last month, the Domestic Affairs Committee of the German Bundestag held public hearings on anti-Semitism in Germany. Many of the speakers chose to focus on the “classical” anti-Semitism to be found in what in Germany are euphemistically called “right-wing extremist” milieus, i.e., among skinheads and self-avowed neo-Nazis. The journalist Henryk Broder, however, located the problem elsewhere: namely, in the mainstream “anti-Zionist anti-Semitism” to be found, for instance, among academics … and Bundestag members. Pajamas Media here presents a complete English translation of Henryk Broder’s statement to the Bundestag’s Domestic Affairs Committee.

-o-

I thank you for the invitation to this hearing. It is an honor for me to be able to speak to you. I know that there has been some unhappiness on account of my participation. But I am sure that by the end of my statement you will not regret having invited me.

This is not the first hearing on the issue of anti-Semitism and it will not be the last. Ever since the writer and self-avowed Jew-hater Wilhelm Marr published his “The Triumph of Germandom [Deutschtum] over Jewry” in 1879, thus becoming the leader of political anti-Semitism in imperial Germany, there have been numerous attempts made to define, explain, and neutralize anti-Semitism. They have all failed. If this was not the case, we would not be here today. Every discussion of anti-Semitism starts with a definition of the concept. And many get no further than that, such that after all the efforts to get a grasp on the phenomenon one is left merely with the finding that anti-Semitism is, as the old joke goes, “when one can’t stand Jews even more than is normal.”

I would like, therefore, to concentrate on two points: two arguments to which one has to pay special attention if one does not want to conduct a merely virtual debate. Firstly, anti-Semitism is not a matter of a prejudice, but rather of a sort of resentment. In and of themselves, prejudices — literally “pre-judgments” [Vorurteile] — are harmless. I have prejudices, you have prejudices: everyone does. It is only negative prejudices that bother us. If I say to you that Germans are hardworking, disciplined, and show their guests great hospitality, you will happily agree with me. If, however, I say that Germans are cheap, infantile, and lack a sense of humor, you will presumably get upset. That’s an unacceptable generalization, you will say. It is the same with Jews. We gladly hear positive prejudices expressed — on the “people of the book” or Jewish humor — but negative Preisindices, which thematize our worse tendencies, we take as an insult.

The distinction between a prejudice and a resentment is as follows: a prejudice concerns a person’s behavior; a resentment concerns that person’s very existence. Anti-Semitism is a resentment. The anti-Semite does not begrudge the Jew how he is or what he does, but that he is at all. The anti-Semite takes offense as much at the Jew’s attempts to assimilate as at his self-marginalization. Rich Jews are exploiters; poor Jews are freeloaders. Smart Jews are arrogant and dumb Jews — and, yes, there are also dumb Jews — are a disgrace to Jewry. The anti-Semite blames Jews in principle for everything and its opposite. That is why there is no point in trying to debate anti-Semites or in wanting to convince them of the absurdity of their views. One has to marginalize anti-Semites: to isolate them in a sort of social quarantine. Society must make clear that it disdains both anti-Semitism and anti-Semites: just as it disdains parents beating their children and rape — including spousal rape — even though it well knows that it cannot monitor everything that transpires behind closed doors.

Secondly, if you want to come to terms with anti-Semitism, you must realize that it is not a fixed quantity like the meter prototype in Paris or the definition of the volt, watt, or ampere. Like all social phenomena, anti-Semitism is susceptible to transformation. Even poverty is no longer today what it once was at the time of Oliver Twist. The anti-Semitism that we are most readily inclined to discuss is an artifact of the last century and the century before that. It is the anti-Semitism of fools, who are still chasing chimeras. [In the late 19th century, the German Social Democrat August Bebel famously described anti-Semitism as the “socialism of fools.” — Translator’s Note] The common anti-Semite has no real idea about the object of his obsessions, but only a diffuse feeling. He lets off steam by painting swastikas on aluminum siding and scribbling “Juda verrecke” [”Jews go croak!”] on gravestones. He is a case for the police and the local courts, but nothing more than that. Nobody is going to feel sympathy for thugs who raise their arms to give the Hitler salute and shout “Juden raus!” [”Jews out!”]. This sort of anti-Semitism is ugly, but politically irrelevant: it is its own death notice.

The modern anti-Semite looks entirely different. He does not have a shaved head. He has good manners and often an academic title as well. He mourns for the Jews who died in the Holocaust. But at the same time he wonders why the survivors and their descendants have learned nothing from history and today treat another people as badly as they were once treated themselves. The modern anti-Semite does not believe in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. But instead he fantasizes about an “Israel lobby” that is supposed to control American foreign policy like a tail that wags the dog. For the modern anti-Semite, it goes without saying that every year on January 27 he will commemorate the liberation of Auschwitz. But at the same time he militates for the right of Iran to have atomic weapons. For “how can one deny Iran what one has permitted Israel or Pakistan?” as Norman Paech [the foreign policy spokesperson of the German Left Party] has put it. Or he inverts the causal relationship and claims that it is Israel that is threatening Iran and not vice-versa — as [German Middle East scholar] Dr. Udo Steinbach did in a recent radio interview. The modern anti-Semite finds ordinary anti-Semitism disgraceful. He has no problem, however, embracing anti-Zionism and is grateful for the opportunity to express his resentment in a politically correct form. For anti-Zionism is a sort of resentment just like classical anti-Semitism was. The anti-Zionist has the same attitude toward Israel as the anti-Semite has to Jews. He is not bothered by what Israel does or does not do, but rather by the fact that Israel exists. That is why he participates so passionately in debates about the solution to the Palestinian question — which could well mean a final solution for Israel. On the other hand, he is left indifferent by conditions in Darfur or Zimbabwe or Congo or Cambodia, because there are no Jews involved in those places. Ask the foreign policy spokesperson of the Left Party, for instance, how many statements he has issued about “Palestine” and how many about Tibet.

Earlier — let’s say at the time of classical anti-Semites like Wilhelm Marr, Karl Lueger, and Adolf Stoecker — everything was plain and simple. There were Jews, there were anti-Semites, and there was anti-Semitism. After 1945, for the well-known reasons, we then had in Germany an anti-Semitism without Jews. And now today we are again confronted by a new phenomenon: an anti-Semitism without anti-Semites. Another new phenomenon is the professional profile of what might be called the “leisure time anti-Semite” who does his regular job during the day, perhaps even in a federal government office, and then in his spare time writes “critical” texts on Israel that appear on obscure anti-Zionist websites. [The reference is to Ludwig Watzal, an official of Germany’s Federal Office for Civic Education (BpB), many of whose articles have been reprinted on the site antimperialista.org. See here on Watzal. The BpB has resisted calls for Watzal’s dismissal, arguing that the writings in question are not connected to his professional activity. — Translator’s Note] Nobody wants to be an anti-Semite, but the “anti-Zionist” hall of shame is getting increasingly crowded.

Anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism are two sides of the same coin. If the anti-Semite was convinced that it is not him, the anti-Semite, who is to blame for anti-Semitism, but rather the Jew himself who is to blame, so too is the anti-Zionist convinced that Israel is responsible not only for the suffering of the Palestinians, but also for the hardship it suffers itself. The older persons among you will perhaps remember what a Green Party politician, who is still a member of the Bundestag, said about the Iraqi rockets that were fired at Israel at the time of the first Gulf War in 1991: “The Iraqi rocket attacks are the logical, nearly unavoidable consequence of Israeli policy.” [The author of the quote is Green Party Member of Parliament Hans-Christian Ströbele. — Translator’s Note] At the time, the same Green Party politician also opposed the delivery of defensive weapons like Patriot rockets to Israel, because this would, he claimed, lead to an escalation in the hostilities.

Today, some 17 years later, we hear similar remarks about rocket attacks on Israel from southern Lebanon or the Gaza Strip: namely, that they are the logical, nearly unavoidable result of Israeli occupation and that Israel would do well not to react in order to avoid escalating hostilities. The modern anti-Semite pays tribute to Jews who have been dead for 60 years, but he resents it when living Jews take measures to defend themselves. He screams “Beware of the Beginnings!” when a handful of weekend Nazis hold a demonstration in Cottbus, but he justifies the policies of the current Iranian president and defends the continuation of German business with Iran.

Ladies and gentleman, we will not solve the problem of anti-Semitism: not at this hearing nor at the next. But the mere fact that you are discussing the issue — when there are also other and more pressing problems that need attention — is a good sign. If I may in all modesty make a suggestion: leave the good old anti-Semitism to the archaeologists and antiquarians and historians. Devote your attention to the modern anti-Semitism that wears the disguise of anti-Zionism and to its representatives. You will find some of the latter among your own ranks.

I thank you for listening.

English Translation by John Rosenthal

Emphases mine.

A short note of the author:

pajamasmedia.com said:
Henryk Broder is the author of numerous books on contemporary German political culture and anti-Semitism, including Hurrah, Wir Kapitulieren! [Hurray! We Give Up] and Der ewige Antisemit [The Eternal Anti-Semite]. He is a regular contributor to many leading German-language news publications and one of the principal co-authors of the popular German blog Die Achse des Gutens [The Axis of Good].


A couple of months ago I watched a small Antifa [_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militant_anti-fascism] demonstration in my town, and some members of this group have been waving around Israeli-flags and this kept me wondering: "What the heck are they doing? Can't they see what Israel is doing?"
It really seems that the people in Germany got kind of programmed/conditioned: We against the others, or to make it clearer: either you are with us, or you are a Nazi. It's like triggering emotional patterns, if you start to speak critically about Israeli politics.
But there is something going on with Neo-Nazis in Germany [but not only today and maybe not only in Germany], they are organized. And to think about psychopaths and how they can operate, that they are in the background and organizing the stuff and the followers are doing it [to flog people with jackboots etc.], makes a lot of sense.

To give one example: German Police Raids Nazi Youth Camp
_http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3555325,00.html
 
Judas Saduj said:
I would have liked to get Laura's (or anybody in the SOTT team) thoughts about Faurisson's arguments.

What strikes me is that Faurisson doesn't have a clue about Ponerology and his degrees in literature don't mean that he can use logic and reason effectively.

I've read quite a bit of what was confessed to and stated at the Nuremberg trials as well as Eichmann's trial in Jerusalem. There is simply no logical reason to think that they were making up stories about gassing. Yeah, the way things were re-created by the Holocaust industry after the war (keeping in mind that records and death factories were being feverishly destroyed before the Allies came in) probably does not accurately represent how things were actually being done, and this could be the biggest stumbling block.

In a way, Faurisson reminds me of the "no-planers" in 9-11 research.

Fact is, considering that we are talking about a gang of criminals - worse, a gang of psychopaths - it is entirely possible that the ways and means of murders perpetrated by the Nazis were, in many instances, far more horrible than gassing, shooting, starvation and being worked to death. And, frankly, I even tend to think that the actual numbers could have been higher than 6 million.

Keep in mind that I have memories of my previous incarnation during that period - a German woman married to a Jewish man.

You might want to read Sebastian Haffner's book "Defying Hitler" for another contemporary account of what was going on.

Yeah, I think it is ridiculous to put people in jail for "holocaust denial"; it just attracts followers; but then, maybe that's what it is intended to do? Keep in mind that the Zionism - the illegal state of Israel - exists by virtue of being a "victim." Gotta keep that victim status going, doncha know? And you are helping them...
 
Gilad Atzmon said:
As it seems, the dialectic of fear dominates the Jewish existence as well as mindset far longer than we are ready to admit. Though fright is exploited politically by Jewish ethnic leaders since the early days of emancipation, the dialectic of fear is far older than modern Jewish history. In fact it is the heritage of the Tanach (the Hebrew Bible) that is there to set the Jew in a pre-traumatic state. It is the Hebrew Bible that sets a binary framework of Innocence/Suffering and Persecution/Empowerment. More particularly, the fear of Judeocide is entangled with Jewish spirit, culture and literature.

I would argue here that the Holocaust religion was there to transform the ancient Israelites into Jews.

The American anthropologist Glenn Bowman who specialised in the study of exilic identities offers a crucial insight into the subject of fear and its contribution to the subject of Identity politics. “Antagonism,” says Bowman, “is fundamental to process of fetishization underlying identity, because one tends precisely to talk about who one is or what one is at a moment in which that being seems threatened. I begin to call myself such and such a person, or such and such a representative of an imagined community, at the moment something seems to threaten to disallow the being the name I speak stands in for. Identity terms come into usage at precisely the moment in which for some reason one comes to feel they signifying a being or entity one has to fight to defend.” [8]

In short, Bowman stresses that it is the fear that crystalizes the notion of identity. However, once the fear is matured into a state of a collective pre-traumatic stress then identity re-forms itself. When it comes to the Jewish people, it is the Bible that is there to set the Jews within a state of Pre-TSD. It is the Bible that initiates the fear of Judeocide.

The following quotes from The Controversy of Zion shed more light on the dialectic of fear shielding Judaism and Zionism from scrutiny. The idea of God empowering a people above all others initiated a dialectic allowing Jewish ethnic leaders to keep Jews from assimilating into the human population.

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=3026.0

Deuteronomy said:
"Thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and the Lord hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth".

Controversy of Zion said:
They knew that the Zionist leaders, in the palavers with British and American politicians of the distant West, repeatedly had stated that "the Bible is our Mandate" (Dr. Chaim Weizmann)

The Jewish ethnic leaders carry on the function of the hereditary priesthood which appears to have introduced racism and genocide into the founding document of Mosaic Law. The ancient laws formulated by the Jewish elders is of interest in examining the role of Jewish community leaders in the Holocaust. The dynamic of special privilege arousing anger in the surrounding communities and that anger generating fear keeps Jews and non-Jews alike captive of ancient ideas of control by the simple device of divide and conquer, always the imperial tactic for enslaving mankind for the benefit of a few. Who are these few?

Controversy of Zion said:
Therefore Deuteronomy is also the basis of the political programme, of worldly dominion over nations despoiled and enslaved, which has been largely realized in the West during this Twentieth Century. Deuteronomy is of direct relevancy to the events of our day, and much of the confusion surrounding them disperses if they are studied in its light.

"These are the statutes and judgments, which ye shall observe to do . . . Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods. . . When the Lord thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land: Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them. . . and that thou
The ideas of the inquisition of heretics and of the informer, which the West has used in its retrogressive periods and repudiated in its enlightened ones, also find their original source (unless any can locate an earlier one) in Deuteronomy. Lest any such heretic should call in question the Law of destruction, summarized in the preceding paragraphs, Deuteronomy next provides that "if there arise among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams . . . (he) shall be put to death"; the crucifixion of Jesus (and the deaths of numerous expostulants against literal Judaism) fall under this "statute".

The denunciation of kinsfolk who incur suspicion of heresy is required. This is the terrorist device introduced in Russia by the Bolshevists in 1917 and copied in Germany by the National Socialists in 1933. The Christian world at the time professed horror at these barbarbous innovations, but the method is plainly laid down in Deuteronomy, which requires that any who say, "Let us go and serve other gods", be denounced by their brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, wives and so on, and be stoned to death.

The Law also demands that entire communities shall be massacred on the charge of apostasy: "Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein".
 
Your answer is very interesting and makes a lot of sense Laura. I haven't seen it that way.

It makes lot of sense, yes, but I'm looking for more solid proof that revisionism is such a "tar baby" and benefits the Jewish victim mentality more than revelation of the thruth and war propaganda lies.

Concerning Faurisson's ignorance of Ponerology, did you send him a note to look at this ? I read his most recent article (8 July, 2008) and in his criticism of Shoah marketing strategies, I recognize some ponerological concepts. (I hope you learned to read French now that you reside in France!) _http://www.thecivicplatform.com/2008/08/08/la-religion-seculiere-de-%c2%ab-l%e2%80%99holocauste-%c2%bb-est-un-produit-%e2%80%93-frelate-%e2%80%93-de-la-societe-de-consommation/

By the way, did you watch Faurisson's video on gas chambers? It's really worth seeing, and much more convincing than those ridiculous 9/11 "no-planers"! Can you see this one or is it blocked also ? _http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5429522183923243219
 
go2 said:
The Jewish ethnic leaders carry on the function of the hereditary priesthood which appears to have introduced racism and genocide into the founding document of Mosaic Law. The ancient laws formulated by the Jewish elders is of interest in examining the role of Jewish community leaders in the Holocaust. The dynamic of special privilege arousing anger in the surrounding communities and that anger generating fear keeps Jews and non-Jews alike captive of ancient ideas of control by the simple device of divide and conquer, always the imperial tactic for enslaving mankind for the benefit of a few. Who are these few?

Exactly. And "those few"??? Pathologicals of all stripes.

Judas Saduj said:
Your answer is very interesting and makes a lot of sense Laura. I haven't seen it that way.

Of course not. You (and everyone else) are intended to either be Zionist or a supporter of Zionism, or across the board anti-Semitic. Read the Protocols of the Pathocrats (otherwise known as the Elders of Zion, but keep in mind that the so-called "Elders of Zion" are Zionists and not necessarily Jews!!!)

Judas Saduj said:
It makes lot of sense, yes, but I'm looking for more solid proof that revisionism is such a "tar baby" and benefits the Jewish victim mentality more than revelation of the thruth and war propaganda lies.

"Solid proof"?? Not sure what you mean by that. Not even sure that it would make a difference. There is proof of the complicity of the Bush gang and Israel in 9-11 that is, IMHO, pretty solid; it's even solid enough to convince a jury if an impartial jury could be found. But that isn't possible because of the media. In fact, the media is the "false prophet" that controls the world. If anybody ever wanted to do anything substantially positive for the world, they would FIRST have to take over the mainstream media - reclaim it on behalf of humanity.

Just open your eyes, read sott.net daily, scroll through the archive, read Arendt, Reed, Haffner, and others. And read Protocol 12... carefully.

Judas Saduj said:
Concerning Faurisson's ignorance of Ponerology, did you send him a note to look at this ?

Sorry, I've had no contact with the guy and don't want any.

You might find Hannah Arendt's historical review of anti-Semitism in France to be enlightening.
 
I understand your point. But it sounds too much like an opinion, though. Reading the Protocols or Reed helped me to understand the big picture, it really helped a lot, but I can't quote it to demonstrate any point. The Protocols are just not serious enough, it offers no documented evidence, which is what I'm looking for. Reed is not a primary source, and we always must go right to the primary sources. It would be even better if, just like you did with 9/11, you could show solid evidence. But as you know, you can't proove to no plane believers that they're wrong. I thought it could be done with the revisionists: show them were they're wrong, proove them they're wrong. I see it that way: if by investigating one should find strong clues, or even proofs that revisionism is a tar baby and a pack of lies, this would be real explosive and precious information ! I would like to do that on my own, but still, I'm not knowledgeable enough about the whole issue of the Holocaust.

I thought you should look at Faurisson's "evidence" and see with your own eyes why people tend to get convinced by revisionist theories, and identify the biggest mistakes in their investigations.


thanks
 
Judas Saduj said:
I understand your point. But it sounds too much like an opinion, though.

I'm curious as to what aspect of what has been explained sounds like 'an opinion'?

judas said:
Reading the Protocols or Reed helped me to understand the big picture, it really helped a lot, but I can't quote it to demonstrate any point. The Protocols are just not serious enough, it offers no documented evidence, which is what I'm looking for.

The fact that past and current history maps perfectly to the Protocols is not evidence enough for you? I find it difficult to understand how anyone who has actually studied this material and observed current reality could say such a thing.


judas said:
Reed is not a primary source, and we always must go right to the primary sources.[/quoe]

Why is Reed not a 'primary source'?

[qutoe=judas] It would be even better if, just like you did with 9/11, you could show solid evidence.

The evidence is all around you - yet you appear to be asking for it to be handed to you on a platter - one does not learn from platters.

judas said:
I would like to do that on my own, but still, I'm not knowledgeable enough about the whole issue of the Holocaust.

You say you are not knowledgeable enough, yet you relegate the information you have been given to the realm of 'opinion'? Then, how can you be knowledgeable enough to make such a determination?

judas said:
I thought you should look at Faurisson's "evidence" and see with your own eyes why people tend to get convinced by revisionist theories, and identify the biggest mistakes in their investigations. thanks

It's quite clear that since you are the one who appears to be convinced by Faurisson that you are the best candidate to spend the time and energy to carry out such an exercise. Read - observe and learn.
 

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