Russian Invasion?

[mamadrama]

Russia considers nuclear missiles for Syria, Mediterranean, Baltic
DEBKAfile Special Report

August 17, 2008, 9:18 PM (GMT+02:00)


Russia's nuclear-capable Iskandar missile

DEBKAfile's military sources report Moscow's planned retaliation for America's missile interceptors in Poland and US-Israeli military aid to Georgia may come in the form of installing Iskandar surface missiles in Syria and its Baltic enclave of Kaliningrad.

Russian Baltic and Middle East warships, submarines and long-range bombers may be armed with nuclear warheads, according to Sunday newspapers in Europe.

In Georgia, Russian troops and tanks advanced to within 30 km of Tbilisi Saturday, Aug. 15. A Russian general said Sunday they had started pulling out after president Dimitry Medvedev signed the ceasefire agreement with Georgia and president George W. Bush called again for an immediate withdrawal.

After routing Georgia over the breakaway enclaves of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, Moscow appears to be eying Poland, the Middle East, and possibly Ukraine, as the main arenas for its reprisals.

One plan on the table in Moscow, DEBKAfile's sources report, is the establishment of big Russian military, naval and air bases in Syria and the release of advanced weapons systems withheld until now to Iran (the S-300 air-missile defense system) and Syria (the nuclear-capable 200 km-range Iskandar surface missile).

Shortly before the Georgian conflict flared, Moscow promised Washington not to let Iran and Syria have these sophisticated pieces of hardware.

The Iskander's cruise attributes make its launch and trajectory extremely hard to detect and intercept. If this missile reaches Syria, Israel will have to revamp its anti-missile defense array and Air Force assault plans for the third time in two years, as it constitutes a threat which transcends all its defensive red lines.

Moscow's war planners know this and are therefore considering new sea and air bases in Syria as sites for the Iskander missiles. Russia would thus keep the missiles under its hand and make sure they were not transferred to Iran. At the same time, Syrian crews would be trained in their operation.

DEBKAfile's military sources report Syrian president Bashar Assad will be invited to Moscow soon to finalize these plans in detail.

Military spokesmen in Moscow said Saturday and Sunday that Russian military planners to started redesigning the nation’s strategic plans for a fitting response to America's decision to install 10 missile interceptors in Poland and the war developments in Georgia.

The chairman of the Israeli Knesset foreign affairs and defense committee, Tzahi Hanegbi, spoke out strongly Sunday, Aug. 17, against treasury plans to slash the defense budget. He warned that the military faced grave confrontations in the coming year - possibly on several fronts.

_http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5513

 

[Green_Manalishi]

One plan on the table in Moscow, DEBKAfile's sources report, is the establishment of big Russian military, naval and air bases in Syria and the release of advanced weapons systems withheld until now to Iran (the S-300 air-missile defense system) and Syria (the nuclear-capable 200 km-range Iskandar surface missile).

And here we have it, now Russia can be termed an official axis of evil country, by aligning with terrorist states for no apparent reason, in the eyes of the American public and in to a lesser extent the rest of the "civilized" world.
As i understand it, a very good example of the "create our own reality" doctrine by the PTB.

 

[anart]

And here we have it, now Russia can be termed an official axis of evil country, by aligning with terrorist states for no apparent reason, in the eyes of the American public and in to a lesser extent the rest of the "civilized" world.
As i understand it, a very good example of the "create our own reality" doctrine by the PTB.

It's important to remember that DEBKA is a major disinformation source - the basic 'Israel is good, Arabs are bad" premise taken to the extreme - so while it's always interesting to see what they're 'up to' - just remember that it's pure propaganda.

 

[CarpeDiem]

In addition to excellent Pipelinestan article
watch this youtube vid, where onset of Georgia attack on Ossetia is linked to two recent successful Russian PC-24 rocket tests, nicknamed ‘Russian Invisible Being’ for their ability to bypass any world's Antimissile defence (or so they claim)

 

[mamadrama]

It's important to remember that DEBKA is a major disinformation source - the basic 'Israel is good, Arabs are bad" premise taken to the extreme - so while it's always interesting to see what they're 'up to' - just remember that it's pure propaganda.

Thanks, I did not know this source.

 

[go2]

Georgia is a US/Israeli puppet government. Sashkashvilli was placed in power by NGO's financed by a George Soros Open Society NGO.
The details of Soros career as a predator can be read in detail in a collections of essays intitled George Soros: Your Enemy.

_http://www.larouchepac.com/files/pdfs/080618_soros_dossier.pdf

F. William Engdahl adds context for the endgame of oil and geopolitics in Central Asia. His essay, The Puppet Masters Behind Georgia Saakashvili if found at:

_http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/Geopolitics___Eurasia/Saakashvili/saakashvili.html

But there is more. The NGOs were coordinated by the US Ambassador to Georgia, Richard Miles, who had just arrived in Tbilisi fresh from success in orchestrating the CIA-backed toppling of Slobodan Milosevic in Belgrade, using the same NGOs. Miles, who is believed to be an undercover intelligence specialist, supervised the Saakashvili coup.

It involved US billionaire George Soros’ Open Society Georgia Foundation. It involved the Washington-based Freedom House whose chairman was former CIA chief James Woolsey. It involved generous financing from the US Congress-financed National Endowment for Democracy, an agency created by Ronald Reagan in the 1980’s to “do privately what the CIA used to do,” namely coups against regimes the US Government finds unfriendly.

George Soros’ foundations have been forced to leave numerous eastern European countries including Russia as well as China after the 1989 student Tiananmen Square uprising. Soros is also the financier together with the US State Department of the Human Rights Watch, a US-based and run propaganda arm of the entire NGO apparatus of regime coups such as Georgia and Ukraine’s 2004 Orange Revolution. Some analysts believe Soros is a high-level operative of the US State Department or intelligence services using his private foundations as cover.

F. William Engdahl sponsors a website _http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/index.html with many articles he has penned in the years leading up to the ill fated Georgian confrontation with the Russian Bear. Europe depends on Russian natural gas. Europe will now begin to reevaluate its relationship with the malevolent hegemony of anglo-american financial cartels operating behind the the facade of the War on Terror. I also recommend Century of War - Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order’, by F William Engdahl- which gives the history of the struggle to control mankind via control of energy production and distribution. The checkmate of anglo-american malevolent hegemony by the Russia and its allies is fraught with danger as the possiblity exists that desperate psychopaths will resort to nuclear weapons to maintain control. We can hope that men and women of normal psychology will regain control of the levers of power from the deviants who would destroy us all to preserve their special privilege.

 

[Telperion]

Along with go2 and smaragde I have also reached the conclusion that Vladamir Putin does not display the psychopathic qualities as I understand them from reading the SOTT articles. Without doubt he is a very clever man and 'cunning' in the old intuitive sense of the word, and I'm sure he can be quite ruthless too, but judging by the restraint he has shown over the past years of having to deal with the Bush gang regime I doubt he is psychopathic. Also, it must be taken into account that anyone of the Zionist persuasion doesn't seem to like Putin very much, and they will never let an occasion pass by without bad-mouthing him. Psychopaths stick together, as someone pointed out. None of them seem to be sticking to Putin.

I sort of agree...Putin doesn't seem on the face of it to be overtly acting like the maniacs in Washington D.C., London and Jerusalem's Lot. However those living in Chechnya, Ukraine and the countless people wrongfully imprisoned in Russia might have a different opinion. Also, being an ex-KGB agent probably gives Putin an added something in the way of knowing when to bide his time.

 

[noise]

Thanks Carpe for sharing that video link!

I'd also like to give props to Putin as well. He's done a great job for his people.. from my perspective and to my knowledge. He's brought Russia back to an energy powerhouse of the Euro-asian countries without threat of menace to his neighbors. Bet stand up guys like him and in my opinion Chavez have some real depth of character vs. the shallow, souless creatures that haunt the corridors of self-aggrandizement in D.C.

 

[Telperion]

Thanks Carpe for sharing that video link!

I'd also like to give props to Putin as well. He's done a great job for his people.. from my perspective and to my knowledge. He's brought Russia back to an energy powerhouse of the Euro-asian countries without threat of menace to his neighbors. Bet stand up guys like him and in my opinion Chavez have some real depth of character vs. the shallow, souless creatures that haunt the corridors of self-aggrandizement in D.C.

"Stand up guys like him" Are you kidding?

 

[go2]

I sort of agree...Putin doesn't seem on the face of it to be overtly acting like the maniacs in Washington D.C., London and Jerusalem's Lot. However those living in Chechnya, Ukraine and the countless people wrongfully imprisoned in Russia might have a different opinion. Also, being an ex-KGB agent probably gives Putin an added something in the way of knowing when to bide his time.

Hi Teleperion, What is the basis of your comment above. Could you provide evidence for your assertion that "countless people are wrongfully imprisoned in Russia"?

The evidence on this thread and its links indicates the ruthless predator of anglo-american imperialism is behind the orange and rose revolutions in the countries liberated by the collapse of Soviet tyranny. It seems the leaders of Russia are acting with restraint and a minumun of violence as they defend the people of Russia from what is clearly a predatory global slavemaster moving in to replace the tyranny which collapsed. The traumatized and vulnerable population of Russia and Eastern Europe were left open to the likes of George Soro's Open Society Foundation's, which are NGO fronts for the CIA and Mossad operations on behalf of predators unknown behind the curtains. The oligarch's who looted Russia would agree with your assessment of Putin, considering he offered them exile or prison. These oligarchs now live in London and Tel Aviv for the most part.

This brings up an interesting possiblity. We know that conscious men have stepped onto the world stage at crucial moments and changed the course of history, Jesus and the disciples being an example. Boris Mouravieff mentions the mission of Alexander paving the way for the teachings of Jesus. On this website we study the teachings of Gurdjieff, Ouspensky, and Mouravieff. These men are general speaking presenting teachings from another realm preserved in Russia Orthodoxy for more than a thousand years. The wide dissemination of these Traditions in the Twentieth Century from the depths of Central Asia leaves the possibility that this work continued to exist in the tyranny of the Soviet Union. The extreme pressure on humanity may have provided fertile ground for some to wake up. This hypothosis could be wrong, but it can be considered. I have observed Russia and its leaders for a decade and see that Vladimir Putin is a man of His word, and gifted with exquisite timing. Could he be on a mission? Was Andrew M. Lobaczewski on a mission?

What is the teaching’s position on the use of violence and/or restraint in self defense? The classic example is Jesus driving the money changers from the Temple, although I have always considered this an allegory for the Temple of a man’s life. Anyway I could wrong, but the thoughts are presented based on observation of leaders and the study of their words, and hence my questions in this regard.

 

[Telperion]

I sort of agree...Putin doesn't seem on the face of it to be overtly acting like the maniacs in Washington D.C., London and Jerusalem's Lot. However those living in Chechnya, Ukraine and the countless people wrongfully imprisoned in Russia might have a different opinion. Also, being an ex-KGB agent probably gives Putin an added something in the way of knowing when to bide his time.

Hi Teleperion, What is the basis of your comment above. Could you provide evidence for your assertion that "countless people are wrongfully imprisoned in Russia"?

The evidence on this thread and its links indicates the ruthless predator of anglo-american imperialism is behind the orange and rose revolutions in the countries liberated by the collapse of Soviet tyranny. It seems the leaders of Russia are acting with restraint and a minumun of violence as they defend the people of Russia from what is clearly a predatory global slavemaster moving in to replace the tyranny which collapsed. The traumatized and vulnerable population of Russia and Eastern Europe were left open to the likes of George Soro's Open Society Foundation's, which are NGO fronts for the CIA and Mossad operations on behalf of predators unknown behind the curtains. The oligarch's who looted Russia would agree with your assessment of Putin, considering he offered them exile or prison. These oligarchs now live in London and Tel Aviv for the most part.

This brings up an interesting possiblity. We know that conscious men have stepped onto the world stage at crucial moments and changed the course of history, Jesus and the disciples being an example. Boris Mouravieff mentions the mission of Alexander paving the way for the teachings of Jesus. On this website we study the teachings of Gurdjieff, Ouspensky, and Mouravieff. These men are general speaking presenting teachings from another realm preserved in Russia Orthodoxy for more than a thousand years. The wide dissemination of these Traditions in the Twentieth Century from the depths of Central Asia leaves the possibility that this work continued to exist in the tyranny of the Soviet Union. The extreme pressure on humanity may have provided fertile ground for some to wake up. This hypothosis could be wrong, but it can be considered. I have observed Russia and its leaders for a decade and see that Vladimir Putin is a man of His word, and gifted with exquisite timing. Could he be on a mission? Was Andrew M. Lobaczewski on a mission?

What is the teaching’s position on the use of violence and/or restraint in self defense? The classic example is Jesus driving the money changers from the Temple, although I have always considered this an allegory for the Temple of a man’s life. Anyway I could wrong, but the thoughts are presented based on observation of leaders and the study of their words, and hence my questions in this regard.

As for Russia's prison problem you could start here - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4881078.stm

One day last June at the Lgov prison south of Moscow, more than 300 inmates slashed their bodies with razor blades.

Many prisoners cut at their wrists, necks, or stomachs.

This was organized self mutilation in protest against alleged abuse by prison officials; its sheer scale shocked many Russians, who are used to hearing appalling tales of life inside Russia's dilapidated and overcrowded prison system.

Russia jails a greater proportion of its people than any other major country apart from the US. According to the latest figures from the Russian Government, there are 829,000 people serving prison sentences...

Valery Barschev spends much of his time visiting some of Russia's 10,000 prisons and pre-detention centres. He's a human rights activist who is also advises the Justice Ministry on prison reform.

"The number of prisoners is decreasing, but only 25% of all those serving sentences really need to be behind bars. In other words, 75% of people don't need to be there," he said.

Russia and the USA are both empires with huge arsenals and spheres of influence and imo are essentially different sides of the same coin (note Bush and Putin's chumminess during the opening ceremony on the Olympics, hmmm).

Putin is a ruthless and calculating ex-KGB agent. Frankly if I had a choice of living under the Russian system or the Western one I would prefer to live under neither, send me into the forest. Russia is acting as an empire just as the USA is. Sure, Putin may act with less artifice but no one should deceive themselves. He is part of the same power structure and control system as Bush et al, and when/if the bombs start dropping, he like Bush et al will be safely tucked away somewhere far from danger.

 

[Redrock12]

"Putin is a ruthless and calculating ex-KGB agent." Wow! Your emotions seem to be running rampant Telperion. You're totally ignoring all of the input from the other posts on Putin, and attempting to justify your hatred of him by referencing a BBC story that's over two years old. And, let's not forget that the BBC is no paragon of virtue when it comes to truthfulness in reporting.
For some reason, you are trying to paint Putin with the same psychopathic brush that only that dope Bush and his zio-con handlers so richly deserve.
Is Putin perfect? No, but he's not hell-bent on destroying most of the human race and enslaving the rest of us.
You seem to be viewing this situation through a less-than-objective lens, IMHO.

 

[Telperion]

"Putin is a ruthless and calculating ex-KGB agent." Wow! Your emotions seem to be running rampant Telperion. You're totally ignoring all of the input from the other posts on Putin, and attempting to justify your hatred of him by referencing a BBC story that's over two years old. And, let's not forget that the BBC is no paragon of virtue when it comes to truthfulness in reporting.
For some reason, you are trying to paint Putin with the same psychopathic brush that only that dope Bush and his zio-con handlers so richly deserve.
Is Putin perfect? No, but he's not hell-bent on destroying most of the human race and enslaving the rest of us.
You seem to be viewing this situation through a less-than-objective lens, IMHO.

I have not said anything about Putin that could not be interpreted as fact. It usually depends on one's point of view. Living as most of do in our comfortable lives far out of the reach of the Soviet/post-Soviet regime we have not experienced what many unfortunates have in Chechnya, Ukraine, Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Siberia etc etc. Excuse me, but I'm not ready to view Putin as some sort of misunderstood freedom fighter or man of virtue because nothing could be further from the truth. All of these world leaders are corrupt and self serving, Putin and Chavez included. Some are worse than others, yes I admit to that. But my saying that Putin in a ruthless and calculating ex-KGB agent stems not from fear but from objective facts:

http://www.mndaily.com/daily/2000/04/12/news/new1/

Russian author clarifies Putin's KGB background

Ada Simanduyeva - Staff Reporter

The March 26 election of Vladimir Putin to the highest office in Russia left the world questioning the leader's KGB past and his penchant to tell people what they want to hear, leaving his true motives disguised.

Melor Sturua, a well-known Russian journalist and current senior fellow at the Humphrey Institute, spent an hour at the University's Cowles Auditorium giving an audience of 50 his analysis of Putin's past, present and possible future.

Sturua said although Putin garnered 52 percent of the Russian vote, the leader's ambiguous statements and future plans leave doubt in the minds of many.

"We don't know who Putin is, and if he can be a leader of a great state, for he has no preliminary data for it -- he was never elected before, never was engaged in economics on a large scale, so his preparation to become a president arouse definite apprehensions," Sturua said.

Putin's background as a KGB official has made Russian citizens and political officials wary. Sturua said many of Putin's opponents left the political scene because they were afraid of him.

Many former opponents began supporting Putin because they feared the leader's KGB connections could result in blackmail.

Newspapers and magazines also remain afraid to examine his political program and criticize him fairly.

"Independently of Putin's future actions, his appearance in Kremlin evoked shock and fear in Russia's population, because when people see a former KGB official in a role of a president, fear unintentionally arises," Sturua said.

Although Putin has said he is no longer associated with the KGB, his staff consists mostly of former KGB officials. Sturua said the officials could prove positive, since most of them are well-educated and know Russia like no one else.

University student Aleksandr Ivkin said he is not happy with his country's presidential choice.

"He led lots of unpopular reforms, which turned me away from him as a potential voter," Ivkin said.

Putin, however, has won over many other Russians with his stance on issues close to many Russians' hearts, like the war in Chechnya.

After several explosions in Moscow and the other Russian cities, anti-Chechen feelings began to formulate because the explosions were believed to be caused by members of Chechen gangs. Putin used hard tactics to deal with the Chechen rebels to win Russian affections.

"It was not unexpected, because after Chechnya's war actions began, his positions grew stronger since he was a representative of tough measures. The population liked it, and literally, in the course of several days, he became the most popular political figure of Russia," Sturua said.

Sturua recently visited Russia to cover the p

residential elections for the Russian and American media. Sturua said there are several apprehensions when discussing Putin.

First, many of his statements are laced with ambiguity.

"His every statement carries a double meaning, and he probably does it purposely, so that everybody would be off balance, while at the same time, they all would be pleased," Sturua said.

Sturua said a perfect example is Putin's relations with the U.S. government. He said he

agrees with negotiations about arms control and drastically reducing nuclear forces.

Putin and British Prime Minister Tony Blair are on a first-name basis, and both Blair and President Bill Clinton have said they can work with Putin. At the same time, Putin is increasing the budget of armed forces and makes nationalistic statements.

He also hinted to Japan's former prime minister that Russia will give the Kuril Islands back to Japan, meanwhile telling Russian people that Russia's territory belongs to Russia, Sturua said.

Although his present and future motives are unclear, the economic situation has improved. The national product rose 3 percent and has potential to go higher. Also, such factors as the ruble's devaluation and increase in oil's price have temporarily made the economy strong.

Sturua said in order to improve the economic situation, Putin has to come up with a realistic plan, which will be more than words on a piece of paper, and only Putin's actions can explain his true persona.

Mark Stipakov is Putin's former classmate, who said Putin is "a man of action, not a man of word." Stipakov, who now resides in Minnesota, said he remembers Putin as being loyal, honest and purposeful.

"If he is aiming for a goal, he will get it," Stipakov said. "He has a possibility of becoming a great president."

The difference as I see it between Putin's style of governing and the style of governing in the West is that our leaders say "relax, everything's ok" while twisting the knife in your back. Putin and leaders like him twist the knife in your back and say as a matter of fact, "yes, I'm stabbing you but like it or not this is how the world works".

 

[RflctnOfU]

I just want to bring this video up. It "kinda" (really) creeps me out. I would say this is not acceptable behavior
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZkmcFkBsI8

I don't know if any of you remember this little display of "affection" or not, but this must be considered when discussing this man's character.

Kris

 

[anart]

I have not said anything about Putin that could not be interpreted as fact. It usually depends on one's point of view.

Facts do not depend on point of view. Facts are not interpreted - they are FACTS, i.e, objectively true.

I personally do not think that Putin can be a 'good guy' to be in the position he is in - it doesn't appear to work that way on this planet, he is a world leader and 'good guys' don't become world leaders, though he may be less evil than some - however - Telperion, you must understand the definition of fact - and the difference between fact, point of view and opinion. It is also interesting to observe that, once again, the second a statement you have made is challenged, you instantly descend into subjective/defensive/emotional thinking and your posts become noise.

Just please stick to objective facts, or as close as we can get to them in our current condition - it will make quite the difference in your posts.

This side discussion will continue here --- http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=9448.0