Sailing the storms of uncertainty

j0da

Jedi Council Member
I haven’t been very active recently on the forum due to rather intense “ride” I’ve been going through during last two months, but now the time has come to share some thoughts about all those events and hopefully, it will help someone, or at least will serve as a testimony of a struggle, the kind many of us face in our quest.

Ever since I’ve found this wonderful group, Laura, Ark and Cass material I wanted to be part of it. From the very beginning something ringed very true to me here and I’ve decided to take the necessary effort which would enable me to apply to QFS. But, there was a significant obstacle beforme me, since I’ve been hanging around in buddhist/scientology (and it’s various offshoots) areas for quite a time and inevitably, I’ve acquired certain baggage of ideas and sets of beliefs which due to their character and content are very difficult to evaluate. Not only that, in some instances methods used by those groups and effects of their application were more than satisfactory that tossing them away was quite a feat. Nevertheless, since I’ve read somewhere that anyone willing to do the Work HAS TO BE SURE of his choice, has to be certain that this way and NOT THE OTHER would bring fruits on his quest for truth, I’ve set out on a journey with one goal in my mind – to knock all the doors yet unnocked, to ascertain that nowhere else will I find the answers I’m looking for.

It goes without saying that interacting in this forum, learning and practicing acquired knowledge and abilities helped me tremendously. Without it, I doubt if my goal would reach fruition in reasonable time (if it would do it at all).

I’ve assembled a set of characteristics which any school/way/philosophy/teacher has to posses/include in order to be considered valid and worthy of my inquires. This set comprises of: a clarity of provided information, coherency of data, high signal-to-noise ratio, availability, affordability, fruitfulness, quality and quantity of information explaining crucial global events of normal/paranormal character and finally certain frequency which resonates with my intuition. Failure to meet ANY of mentioned requirements would result in exclusion from a pool of considered areas of involvement.

When I’ve brought this approach to action it’s performance exceeded my wildest expectations! Those second thoughts of mine dwelling somewhere in the background of my intelectual activity were falling down like flies, literally. It wasn’t a long haul after all.

Although, The Matrix wasn’t sleeping and it was going to tremendous heights to stall me in my efforts, to make my life difficult, to distract me by placing before me random obstacles and traps, which when sprung would bring considerable losses if not a disaster. I’ve been feeling the heat when in short period of time I’ve been put under big pressure in my work, financial supression and my family was actively pushing me to make decisions which I would regret very soon. I had to work days and nights non-stop for about a month, what exhausted me considerably. I had to resist pressure to put my money into acquiring an appartment which under normal circumstances would be great investment, but in the long run it would require me to earn much more money than I earn now, activity which would consume extremely valuable time needed to read required material.

Eso Quest activity was one of the obstacles as well. Even if I didn’t contact him personally outside this forum, his subtle acknowledgements of various “paths” was fogging my perception and giving them some validity (using “authority” and“convoluted vocabulary” tactics, playing comrade and what not), thus pushing my goal away from me.
Interesting thing – just after his spell was broken and I’ve regained much clarity to continue my journey I’ve come under such intense internal attack, that it scared the hell out of me. It went through “computer game junkie” channel and I’ve found myself playing some epic space strategy game 16 hours a day non-stop, for about a week, drowned in complete oblivion and detachment from the world around me. It has placed me in danger of failing to fullfill my professional obligations and thus breaking a promising cooperation, not mentioning all other things we have to do in our every day lives.
The night after EQ drama was revealed I had a dream about snakes which were attempting to invade my room. I shut the door preventing their entry, but one of those pesky creatures was clasped between the door and the doorstep. Somehow it severed it’s head, which turned into a bug, which instantly hid somwhere inside my room. Now I know what kind of bug it was…

Only recently the storm has calmed down a bit and I feel I have some time to continue reading “Adventure Series”, but I know the struggle isn’t over. Even now I see another wave coming – out of the blue someone contacted me this week. Someone I loved, someone I lost and someone I still have some affection for. What will be the outcome of our meeting is uncertain, but I can clearly see yet another test is on it's way.

Well, that’s it, in highly compressed form. If you consider something from above worthy further elaboration – let me know. As for now - HAPPY SAILING EVERYONE!
 

Renaissance

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
J0da said:
I've assembled a set of characteristics which any school/way/philosophy/teacher has to posses/include in order to be considered valid and worthy of my inquires. This set comprises of: a clarity of provided information, coherency of data, high signal-to-noise ratio, availability, affordability, fruitfulness, quality and quantity of information explaining crucial global events of normal/paranormal character and finally certain frequency which resonates with my intuition. Failure to meet ANY of mentioned requirements would result in exclusion from a pool of considered areas of involvement.
What happens if you're wrong about something on the list?

What about your own characteristics - aren't they also important for a school?
 

j0da

Jedi Council Member
Shane said:
What happens if you're wrong about something on the list?
Wrong in what way? Being wrong about the contents of the list, it's possible incompletness? Or being wrong in one's estimation of a school/way regarding any of those points? Or maybe being wrong in some other way? Please, specify your question, Shane.

As a quick answer I may say that being wrong about something one day doesn't exclude being right about it in the future provided new experience and knowledge is gained. But, even if a choice regarding school is made and only afterwards one realizes he was mistaken about some other way in one or more of the points it doesn't make much difference, IMHO. At some point one probably realizes that mixing teachings, techniques, philosophies usually leads nowhere, apart from great dispersion of attention which is a terrible thing.

Shane said:
What about your own characteristics - aren't they also important for a school?
Yes, indeed, it is important and should be included in such list. But, unfortunately, one's ability to properly evaluate oneself is very often severely lacking, even despite of one's best efforts to see oneself without any distortions or false beliefs. While it is possible for an individual to tell if one fits some group at least in some approximation by himself, one can never be certain. When one is finally done with making one's mind it is the group/teacher that has the final word. So, this particular point on one's evaluation list can not be verified by oneself.
 

Beau

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
j0da said:
I may say that being wrong about something one day doesn't exclude being right about it in the future provided new experience and knowledge is gained.
That's good advice. But within the context of the discussion, it sounds like you are saying any thoughts/ideas you currently identify with are going to be protected by the above logic. The best way to know if you are right or wrong about something is to share your knowledge and experiences with others who can provide feedback. Because you never know if what you gained is objective or not. :cool:


jOda said:
But, even if a choice regarding school is made and only afterwards one realizes he was mistaken about some other way in one or more of the points it doesn't make much difference, IMHO. At some point one probably realizes that mixing teachings, techniques, philosophies usually leads nowhere, apart from great dispersion of attention which is a terrible thing.
I disagree with that. The QFS is one example of a school that, more than anything, mixes many different philosophies/teachings. I may be misunderstanding you, but isn't gaining as much data from multiple sources the best way to get as objective a view on the world as possible? I doubt there is some omnipotent school out there that can provide ALL.

Shane said:
What about your own characteristics - aren't they also important for a school?
j0da said:
Yes, indeed, it is important and should be included in such list. But, unfortunately, one's ability to properly evaluate oneself is very often severely lacking, even despite of one's best efforts to see oneself without any distortions or false beliefs. While it is possible for an individual to tell if one fits some group at least in some approximation by himself, one can never be certain. When one is finally done with making one's mind it is the group/teacher that has the final word. So, this particular point on one's evaluation list can not be verified by oneself.
How can you make a list of characteristics of for a school then? If you can't evaluate yourself then I doubt one will have much success evaluating which school will be best for you. There are distortions everywhere.
 

j0da

Jedi Council Member
beau said:
j0da said:
I may say that being wrong about something one day doesn't exclude being right about it in the future provided new experience and knowledge is gained.
That's good advice. But within the context of the discussion, it sounds like you are saying any thoughts/ideas you currently identify with are going to be protected by the above logic.
Beau, would you please elaborate on this? Am I correct in my understanding that you are saying that I'm going to "freeze" those ideas/thoughts I'm identifying with for further evaluation instead of tossing them away? I'm confused a bit with this :(

beau said:
The best way to know if you are right or wrong about something is to share your knowledge and experiences with others who can provide feedback. Because you never know if what you gained is objective or not. :cool:
Yes, I have a habit of dealing with uncertainty on my own. Several times I've tried to share my observations and get feedback, but usually I was sharing my thoughts with wrong people. The idea of true networking, as is practiced here is really new to me and I think it takes time to learn how to be a part of such process. Looking back at my participation here I can say it was most of the times rather "shallow" engagement, as I was shying away with sharing most of dillemas which were occupying my mind. I'm working on my attitude, but boy, it's not easy.

beau said:
jOda said:
But, even if a choice regarding school is made and only afterwards one realizes he was mistaken about some other way in one or more of the points it doesn't make much difference, IMHO. At some point one probably realizes that mixing teachings, techniques, philosophies usually leads nowhere, apart from great dispersion of attention which is a terrible thing.
I disagree with that. The QFS is one example of a school that, more than anything, mixes many different philosophies/teachings. I may be misunderstanding you, but isn't gaining as much data from multiple sources the best way to get as objective a view on the world as possible? I doubt there is some omnipotent school out there that can provide ALL.
That's right, but I was rather saying about being an yet unexperienced seeker trying to engage in plethora of techniques gathered from all around at once without profound understanding of those methods and seeing the big picture. I mean I've made this mistake several times, when I tried to grasp everything at once, try many different methods coming from different sources and that led me nowhere, maybe apart from gaining this particular experiece of being "stopped" by vectors of similar value but pointing to all directions at once.

beau said:
Shane said:
What about your own characteristics - aren't they also important for a school?
j0da said:
Yes, indeed, it is important and should be included in such list. But, unfortunately, one's ability to properly evaluate oneself is very often severely lacking, even despite of one's best efforts to see oneself without any distortions or false beliefs. While it is possible for an individual to tell if one fits some group at least in some approximation by himself, one can never be certain. When one is finally done with making one's mind it is the group/teacher that has the final word. So, this particular point on one's evaluation list can not be verified by oneself.
How can you make a list of characteristics of for a school then? If you can't evaluate yourself then I doubt one will have much success evaluating which school will be best for you. There are distortions everywhere.
Oh my! I've written a complete nonsense in this section :(
And interestingly it was probably caused by sudden feeling of inadequacy prompted by Shane's question which befudled my reasoning. I've jumped to some peculiar self-protecting mode, thus producing completely unclear and wrong message :( Thanks for pointing this out, Beau!
 

anart

The Living Force
Joda said:
That's right, but I was rather saying about being an yet unexperienced seeker trying to engage in plethora of techniques gathered from all around at once without profound understanding of those methods and seeing the big picture. I mean I've made this mistake several times, when I tried to grasp everything at once, try many different methods coming from different sources and that led me nowhere, maybe apart from gaining this particular experiece of being "stopped" by vectors of similar value but pointing to all directions at once.
It seems (and correct me if I'm wrong) that what you're really talking about is previously jumping into a bunch of different techniques or ideas at once, without really studying them in depth first. You mention getting yourself involved in a couple of schools of thought and it sounds like it took being a part of them for a while for it to sink in that what they had to offer you was limited. So, perhaps it's more of a new mode of evaluation before acceptance, if that makes any sense. You've ramped up your critical thinking capacity a bit and are using that to guide you in a more productive direction - or so it seems.

Joda said:
Looking back at my participation here I can say it was most of the times rather "shallow" engagement, as I was shying away with sharing most of dillemas which were occupying my mind. I'm working on my attitude, but boy, it's not easy.
I think this is really common, so don't feel bad. There is a certain amount of trust that has to build up first, before one can really open up and say, "okay, this is what I'm thinking and it's probably going to show all of you exactly how screwed up I am, but here goes..." - or maybe that was just me. ;)

Additionally, this is a public forum, so you don't want to go spilling your entire life story and details - but dipping in a pinky toe of what your honest ideas are about something is usually pretty safe.

By the way, have you met with this person from long ago who has recently contacted you? This sets off alarm bells, for me, by the way, since I have been contacted by several people in the recent past, just when I was grasping something, or struggling with what exactly it was I was trying to do -so - beware. I don't mean to sound negative, but try to remember that it is very important to those who control us (or try to) that we are distracted from the path we are on, and they will stop at nothing to get what they want.

On that cheery note, I'll close. =)
 

Beau

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
j0da said:
beau said:
j0da said:
I may say that being wrong about something one day doesn't exclude being right about it in the future provided new experience and knowledge is gained.
That's good advice. But within the context of the discussion, it sounds like you are saying any thoughts/ideas you currently identify with are going to be protected by the above logic.
Beau, would you please elaborate on this? Am I correct in my understanding that you are saying that I'm going to "freeze" those ideas/thoughts I'm identifying with for further evaluation instead of tossing them away? I'm confused a bit with this :(
How you put it, it sounded like even though you may be wrong about something today, you will not discard it because their is a possibility of it being right in the future. That's kinda how I interpreted what you wrote. Sorry for the confusion :)


j0da said:
Yes, I have a habit of dealing with uncertainty on my own. Several times I've tried to share my observations and get feedback, but usually I was sharing my thoughts with wrong people. The idea of true networking, as is practiced here is really new to me and I think it takes time to learn how to be a part of such process. Looking back at my participation here I can say it was most of the times rather "shallow" engagement, as I was shying away with sharing most of dillemas which were occupying my mind. I'm working on my attitude, but boy, it's not easy.
I don't think you have an attitude, and I don't expect you to be able to just up and trust this forum to discuss your life. But one thing that rings true for me is, we can't do it on our own. And in this forum you will be able to bring issues to the table and not have to worry about being treated unfairly. Us mods don't take well to that :cool:


jOda said:
That's right, but I was rather saying about being an yet unexperienced seeker trying to engage in plethora of techniques gathered from all around at once without profound understanding of those methods and seeing the big picture. I mean I've made this mistake several times, when I tried to grasp everything at once, try many different methods coming from different sources and that led me nowhere, maybe apart from gaining this particular experiece of being "stopped" by vectors of similar value but pointing to all directions at once.
I think it's all about discernment. Certainly being involved in Scientology is a red flag for me. If you're looking for truth you are not going to find it there.

But I like to say that even a negative experience can be turned positive, if like you said one can gain from it and learn. If you have done that then you have made something of it. But if you are rapidly seeking different techniques at once there is little chance for you to gain a "profound understanding" from any of them, imho. Study one, find something of value in it, and then study another, etc.

Perhaps you have a strong motor center which is driving you to seek out many methods all at once. Your intellectual center probably cannot keep up. So slow down, relatively speaking(since time is gaining on us).

j0da said:
And interestingly it was probably caused by sudden feeling of inadequacy prompted by Shane's question which befudled my reasoning. I've jumped to some peculiar self-protecting mode, thus producing completely unclear and wrong message :( Thanks for pointing this out, Beau!
That's ok. When you feel inadequate, when you can feel the predator going into self protection mode, just put the brakes on. Sit and observe those emotions and "let it burn".
 

Ryan

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
j0da said:
Nevertheless, since I've read somewhere that anyone willing to do the Work HAS TO BE SURE of his choice, has to be certain that this way and NOT THE OTHER would bring fruits on his quest for truth, I've set out on a journey with one goal in my mind - to knock all the doors yet unnocked, to ascertain that nowhere else will I find the answers I'm looking for.
It seems to me that one could spend a lifetime of knocking on doors in that case. I don't think you have to be convinced that the Work will supply the "whole enchilada", but I do think that one needs to be reasonably certain that the "exterior" life of "A" influences will be unable to provide the understanding one seeks. From ISOTM:
Gurdjieff via Ouspensky said:
"How can we recognize people who are able to come to the work?" asked one of those present. "How to recognize them is another question," said G. "To do this it is necessary to a certain extent 'to be.' But before speaking of this we must establish what kind of people are able to come to the work and what kind are not able.

"You must understand that a man should have, first, a certain preparation, certain luggage. He should know what it is possible to know through ordinary channels about the ideas of esotericism, about hidden knowledge, about possibilities of the inner evolution of man, and so on. What I mean is that these ideas ought not to appear to him as something entirely new. Otherwise it is difficult to speak to him. It is useful also if he has at least some scientific or philosophical preparation. If a man has a good knowledge of religion, this can also be useful. But if he is tied to religious forms and has no understanding of their essence, he will find it very difficult. In general, if a man knows but little, has read but little, has thought but little, it is difficult to talk to him. If he has a good essence there is another way for him without any talks at all, but in this case he has to be obedient, he has to give up his will. And he has to come to this also in some way or other.

It can be said that there is one general rule for everybody. In order to approach this system seriously, people must be disappointed, first of all in themselves, that is to say, in their powers, and secondly in all the old ways. A man cannot feel what is most valuable in the system unless he is disappointed in what he has been doing, disappointed in what he has been searching for. If he is a scientist he should be disappointed in his science If he is a religious man he should be disappointed in his religion If he is a politician he should be disappointed in politics. If he is a philosopher he should be disappointed in philosophy. If he is a theosophist he should be disappointed in theosophy. If he is an occultist he should be disappointed in occultism. And so on. But you must understand what this means I say for instance that a religious man should be disappointed in religion. This does not mean that he should lose his faith; On the contrary, it means being 'disappointed' in the teaching and the methods only, realizing that the religious teaching he knows is not enough for him, can lead him nowhere.

All religious teachings, excepting of course the completely degenerated religions of savages and the invented religions and sects of modern times, consist of two parts, the visible and the hidden. To be disappointed in religion means being disappointed in the visible, and to feel the necessity for finding the hidden and unknown part of religion. To be disappointed in science does not mean losing interest in knowledge. It means being convinced that the usual scientific methods are not only useless but lead to the construction of absurd and self contradictory theories, and, having become convinced of this, to begin to search for others. To be disappointed in philosophy means being convinced that ordinary philosophy is merely -as it is said in the Russian proverb- pouring from one empty vessel into another, and that people do not even know what philosophy means although true philosophy also can and should exist. To be disappointed in occultism does not mean losing faith in the miraculous, it is merely being convinced that ordinary, accessible, and even advertised occultism, under whatever name it may pass, is simply charlatanism and self decepetion and that, although somewhere something does exist, everything that man knows or is able to learn in the ordinary way is not what he needs.

So that, no matter what he used to do before, no matter what used to interest him, if a man has arrived at this state of disappointment in ways that are possible and accessible, it is worth while speaking to him about our system and then he may come to the work. But if he continues to think that he is able to find anything on his former way, or that he has not as yet tried all the ways, or that he can, by himself, find anything or do anything, it means that he is not ready. I do not mean that he must throw up everything he used to do before - this is entirely unnecessary. On the contrary, it is often even better if he continues to do what he used to do. But he must realize that it is only a profession, or a habit, or a necessity.
And there is also this:

Gurdjieff via Ouspensky said:
"At first it is very difficult to verify whether the work is right or wrong, whether the directions received are correct or incorrect. The theoretical part of the work may prove useful in this respect, because a man can judge more easily from this aspect of it. He knows what he knows and what he does not know. He knows what can be learned by ordinary means and what cannot. And if he learns something new, something that cannot be learned in the ordinary way from books and so on, this, to a certain extent, is a guarantee that the other, the practical side, may also be right. But this of course is far from being a full guarantee because here also mistakes are possible. All occult and spiritualistic societies and circles assert that they possess a new knowledge. And there are people who believe it.
"In properly organized groups no faith is required; what is required is simply a little trust and even that only for a little while, for the sooner a man begins to verify all he hears the better it is for him.
"The struggle against the 'false I,' against one's chief feature or chief fault, is the most important part of the work, and it must proceed in deeds, not in words. For this purpose the teacher gives each man definite tasks which require, in order to carry them out, the conquest of his chief feature. When a man carries out these tasks he struggles with himself, works on himself. If he avoids the tasks, tries not to carry them out, it means that either he does not want to or that he cannot work.
Good luck.
 

j0da

Jedi Council Member
anart said:
It seems (and correct me if I'm wrong) that what you're really talking about is previously jumping into a bunch of different techniques or ideas at once, without really studying them in depth first. You mention getting yourself involved in a couple of schools of thought and it sounds like it took being a part of them for a while for it to sink in that what they had to offer you was limited. So, perhaps it's more of a new mode of evaluation before acceptance, if that makes any sense. You've ramped up your critical thinking capacity a bit and are using that to guide you in a more productive direction - or so it seems.
Well, I've been turning many stones in my life looking for answers for over ten years now, but especially through last five years. Since I had absolutely no idea how to evaluate beforehead some body of knowledge or path the only solution I've been able to come up with was to dive into school/teaching, try it and observe results. Only this activity resulted in some kind of experience and a 'sense of workability', but still, it wasn't enough.

While I was able to evade most obvious traps, I certainly fell down into those more insidious. Only now after reading lots of material contained here I have realized the mechanics of those finer traps. And most deadly traps seem to combine:large numer of materials, difficult and completely unfamiliar terminology, techniques producing intense feel good experience, testimonies of 'higher level' initiates and large chunks of truth intermixed with all these difficult to grasp ideas. Such more complex traps have extremely high capacity for vacuuming even most dedicated and wary seekers, provided they do not posses deep understanding and knowledge about the cosmic cointelpro tactics. There is slight possibility that with some luck one extracts oneself from such a trap without this knowledge, but only after years of chaising one's tail, like it was in my case. And yet, even after I left those areas, I found myself "dizzy", because of past experiences and even more "possibilities" on the horizon.

Like Ryan wrote, one can spend a lifetime knocking doors and that was a danger I perceived very clearly. In desperate attempt I've assembled this list of mine to narrow down the number of possible areas of interest. It may be not perfect, even highly incomplete, but it's application combined with knowledge of cosmic cointelpro tactics brought me unbelivable relief and for the first time I finally feel some ground beneath my feet.

anart said:
By the way, have you met with this person from long ago who has recently contacted you? This sets off alarm bells, for me, by the way, since I have been contacted by several people in the recent past, just when I was grasping something, or struggling with what exactly it was I was trying to do -so - beware. I don't mean to sound negative, but try to remember that it is very important to those who control us (or try to) that we are distracted from the path we are on, and they will stop at nothing to get what they want.
I haven’t met her yet, I’ll see her in a few days. Curiously, the night after I emerged from that terrible gaming vortex I had a dream about said person. Having waken up I had strong feeling that she was going to contact me that very day, so I wasn’t surprised at all when in the evening the message popped up: “Hello…”. You don’t sound negative to me at all, Anart, since from the very first moment I had the same suspicion. I thought “And now what? Yeah, I get it, since you (The Matrix) have failed to entrap me in usual ways here you come with the most tempting thing in years.”

Of course, I may be wrong and besides, I’ve been steering out of people’s way too long, avoiding confrontations, so I’ve decided to go for it and take up the challenge. I perfectly know how vulnerable I am in this area, since this person’s life is entangled with mine to the degree I cannot ignore. My interaction with this person brought me great joy and great misery and was in a sense an impulse to seek the truth. As a precausive measure I’ll keep you posted about events developement, but I’m a bit hesitant of doing it at the public forum.

beau said:
I think it's all about discernment. Certainly being involved in Scientology is a red flag for me. If you're looking for truth you are not going to find it there.

But I like to say that even a negative experience can be turned positive, if like you said one can gain from it and learn. If you have done that then you have made something of it. But if you are rapidly seeking different techniques at once there is little chance for you to gain a "profound understanding" from any of them, imho. Study one, find something of value in it, and then study another, etc.

Perhaps you have a strong motor center which is driving you to seek out many methods all at once. Your intellectual center probably cannot keep up. So slow down, relatively speaking(since time is gaining on us).
Yeah, dissecting the subject of Scientology (official church and so called “Free Zone”) would make an opportunity of studying traps of grandeur proportions, but since it’s members and an organization as a whole (official church) are known by their extreme ruthlessness in crushing critics it may best to talk only about tactics and methods without assigning any names. I may be wrong about my assesment, so correct me if needed (even to the degree of deleting this passage). I may have some interesting stories to tell, even if I only “touched” the subject during my three years intrest in the area.

This “rapid seeking” mode of operation as well as engaging in various techniques, or at least reading lot of various books without a buffer of “tasting but not eating” tired me to the degree of complete exhaustion and indeed brought a serious dissapointment. Time, money, effort were consumed, some benefits were gained but overally not much was accomplished. What’s more, some time ago I’ve had a terrible realisation about my true condition (it transpired due to my engagement in this forum) which brought a kind of depression on one hand, but strong motivation to finally break the veil of incapacity.

Tonight I couldn’t sleep as I had intense pain in the back of my neck and one thought was occupying my mind constantly: “This isn’t a joke, or a kid’s play anymore, joda. All of this isn’t a damn joke at all”.

Thank you from the depth of my heart for your comments, friends.
 
K

kimberlee

Guest
beau said:
I think it's all about discernment.

But I like to say that even a negative experience can be turned positive, if like you said one can gain from it and learn.

When you feel inadequate, when you can feel the predator going into self protection mode, just put the brakes on. Sit and observe those emotions and "let it burn".
Great advice Beau. Instead of teaching others what they need to know, I rather help them know thyself and discern with their intuitive intelligence found in the heart. And what you said about observing the emotions and letting them burn is a great way to stay in objective mode. It keeps the ego in check and keeps your focus on getting to the heart of communicating.

Love,
Kimberlee
 
K

kimberlee

Guest
j0da said:
Tonight I couldn't sleep as I had intense pain in the back of my neck and one thought was occupying my mind constantly: "This isn't a joke, or a kid's play anymore, joda. All of this isn't a damn joke at all".

Thank you from the depth of my heart for your comments, friends.
I hear you joda. It is not a joke. We are right in the middle of a mine field playing tag. We need to be careful with every step.

If you wish, I could send up a prayer for you.

Love,
Kimberlee
 

Beau

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
j0da said:
Yeah, dissecting the subject of Scientology (official church and so called "Free Zone") would make an opportunity of studying traps of grandeur proportions, but since it's members and an organization as a whole (official church) are known by their extreme ruthlessness in crushing critics it may best to talk only about tactics and methods without assigning any names. I may be wrong about my assesment, so correct me if needed (even to the degree of deleting this passage). I may have some interesting stories to tell, even if I only "touched" the subject during my three years intrest in the area.
We can discuss it here. I would direct anyone interested in understanding more about Scientology to read The Fishman Affadavit. One should definitely check that out if they are interested in the CoS.
 

j0da

Jedi Council Member
First of all I have to confess I feel a "snitch" program going on Full Monty, since I have benefited from scientology processing in certain areas. THIS is one of the most powerfull hooks that keeps people inside despite some strange symptoms that can be perceived and general indoctrination which takes place during courses - one really benefits from auditing sessions - at least it's what I can tell from my own experience of first lower "grade".

Hot areas of family relations (in my case especially relations with mother), inter-gender relations, sexual suppression were discharged (some of them temporarily though). Also, major upsets about some immediate problems and most powerfull emotional traumas (like feeling of major loss - in my case lost love) I was aware of then, were nullified. All of this was completed during first lower grade called "Life repair", which took about 40 hours of processing (scientology counseling performed by trained practicioner, who uses prepared lists of commands/questions and biofeedback device measuring electrical resistance in a body called E-meter).

During such session one is asked to direct his attention to problematic area repeatedly. It may resemble Zen technique of working with Koan, but one isn't going to the park to meditate over the question and report to the master later with the answer one has found. Instead he sits in the chair and aswers the same question over and over again, until he gets so called "cognition" regarding the subject in question. In such way effects can be very rapid and one finds himself shouting "Eureka!" even a couple of times during an processing day. How does "cognition" feel is hard to describe in words. First of all one feels he hasn't a problem with some subject anymore, and if this subject was haunting him for years the sense of relief is overwhelming. Sometimes one could just sit in a chair, crying from happiness, or laughing thinking about one's own stupidity - "Oh my, how could I be so blind about this?? All over those years?!" Added to this intelectual understanding one's organism is overflowed with such dose of "feel good" chemistry, that sometimes it is hard to bear. I usually had to go for a long walk - I wanted to be alone with this feeling since I couldn't stand "normal" mode of operation of an practicioner or any other person around. I didn't want anyone to disturb my elation. For a brief moment one feels like he is "enlightened" - and it really rocks. If anyone has read some Zen stories about disciples suddenly realizing something important and doing funny/crazy things while answering a master one can get a sense of behaviour of someone acting during such state.

So far so good (err, really?)

But, while a person finds himself in a new state of understanding of his life or his situation, one is also under effect of this powerful chemistry. And expectedly, with time, this "bonus effect" of "temporary enlightment" wears off. Ouch, that's painfull. But, worry not - there are still higher "levels" to go through, so one satisfies with what was left (this understanding) and waits impatiently when he will be able to once again tell the practicioner "beam me up, Scotty !"
Manwhile, one merrily goes back and forth and communicates to people how wonderfull Scientology is and how "You too could benefit from it, you know?"

Of course, "dissemination" of Scientology is suggested very early, but since they "fixed you allright" so fast and for such reasonable fee (in the Free Zone prices are moderate, nothing crazy like in CofS) how could you reject such tiny request? In my case it wasn't even requested to do it verbally, but simply I was sent a book called "Dissemination Course".
I found myself thinking:"Aren't you concerned about the condition of Earth? Aren't you aware that this grim situation we witness on Big Blue Marble is directly caused by those poor lost people? If only we could "fix" them all, just like I was just "fixed" we would have Heaven on Earth! So go on and make sure the greatest goal of "Clearing the Planet" is fullfiled!" You bet, I was concerned and I was "disseminating" like crazy :D

I myself, having solved those most troubling, pesky dillemas, started to go on with life expecting the bright future of someone who finally has found "the path". And then - Whoomp! What a surprise! Having so abruptly solved such difficult problems I was struck with even bigger problems and dillemas! "Oh my, oh my...what to do?" - I asked my auditor (in 'scientologese' dialect - practicioner/facilitator of processing procedures). "Don't worry, with further auditing and courses you will learn to handle such things". "Oh, what a relief! Everything is fine" (Jeez, I'd better just make sure I earn enough money for the next sessions!)

That's it for now. I'll continue this if you are interested - I've only begun, mind you ;)
 

j0da

Jedi Council Member
kimberlee said:
I hear you joda. It is not a joke. We are right in the middle of a mine field playing tag. We need to be careful with every step.

If you wish, I could send up a prayer for you.

Love,
Kimberlee
Thank you for your kind words, Kimberlee - they are very much appreciated :).
 
K

kimberlee

Guest
j0da said:
kimberlee said:
I hear you joda. It is not a joke. We are right in the middle of a mine field playing tag. We need to be careful with every step.

If you wish, I could send up a prayer for you.

Love,
Kimberlee
Thank you for your kind words, Kimberlee - they are very much appreciated :).
We are all in this to-gether, my sweet. I am here for you.

Love,
Kimberlee
 
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