Sense8

[Keit]

Wasn't impressed by the series. It's very slow, and whenever there is a gap in the "script", it's something like: Hey, we still need ten minutes of footage, let's throw some transdimensional orgy there.

I was excited to hear that Straczynski was a co-creator of the series. But to be honest, after reading your reviews and impressions, I am also not particularly impressed.

Mind you, I am not exactly a puritan, but is it really worth it to watch the show "because it is done by Matrix and Babylon 5 creators" and there are some good and "resonating" concepts there, but the meaning is being lost in unnecessary noise? That's how TV works these days? Well, yeah, maybe, but do we really need to try and eat everything that is being put on our plate? Or spend energy ignoring something by saying that it still has a redeeming value because it has some good concepts too?

Here are some examples. Straczynski created Babylon 5 - an amazing and intricate space opera with various themes including love and sex. It wasn't overt and "in your face", but still there. But it was made in a dignified way, especially when something that is being hinted is often more desirable than something overt. Another example would be Farscape. Crazy sc-fi and often outrageous in a sexist way, but still, I have a feeling that it is still more dignified than the described "transdimensional orgies".

Take another sci-fi awesomeness - Firefly. Joss Whedon isn't exactly shy when it comes to sexual themes. After all, one of the main characters is a Companion, who simply put is an elite state-sanctioned prostitute. But still, it was done in a way that was respectful both toward the show and its characters.

Maybe I am exaggerating, but these are my thoughts anyway. As for the Matrix creators, it isn't surprising really, because the dancing scene in the Matrix Reloaded was also too sexualized ad unnecessary. Guess they just took it further. fwiw.

 

[Tomek]

I watched the first 5 episodes so far, and here's my impressions :

Not particulary thrilled by this show. Some concepts are appealing. The show mentions indirectly the importance of having a network in order to share skills and knowledge, and the "cluster" of souls is a concept somewhat close to what you can find in the Wave. So, there are definitely good moments, unfortunately watered down in... I don't know. The acting is kinda lame. The unecessary sex scenes (if something as a necessary sex scene exists) is the new norm in TV shows, so I don't really mind them. Sometimes it feels like watching eight different boring TV shows. Sometimes, it feels like "LGBT : The Movie : The TV show". I'm still curious to see where this is going to lead, but my expectations are pretty low.

 

[beetlemaniac]

Maybe they're working on easing populations into the idea of psychic connections, (well, obviously), but in ways which are sort of in tune with how things actually seem to work and which I can sort of relate to, (though everything I experience has a lot less cinematic ka-pow).

I've been watching this til episode 4 so far. It's full of unneeded glitz around a more interesting core concept - empathy at a distance. It's not so different from what we experience here in the forum amongst each other.

Woodsman or anyone else, I just wanted to know - what have you experienced that could relate even further to the kinds of phenomena seen in this show? It seems to me that our interactions here have a possibility of spilling into real life, but I can't be sure. Like when I reply to someone here - and then I somehow get involved in a situation in my life that is apparently similar to what was discussed here. For example someone recently met a guy here and I replied and yesterday I had uncontrollable feelings of attraction to someone that really caught me off guard and ruined my day in obsessive rumination. I mean it probably sounds like a long shot but still, the feelings were generally overwhelming and unusual. I won't be meeting that person again though, it was a one off event.

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

Not particulary thrilled by this show.

I must say I'm not impressed with the show either. Poorly filmed, poor acting, super slow pace, childish writing and plot, unnecessary sex scenes, crass close-up shots (strap-on dildo which has just been used)... Yes, the theme is interesting but that's just about it, I think. I will not be watching this one any further, it's not for me.

 

[NormaRegula]

I've started watching this series as well, and agree with several of the comments above. The sex aspect is pretty in-your-face in the beginning (I'm on the fifth episode), but you can't say that they haven't shown nearly every possible gender combination. I find Nomi's character a bit annoying, only because I feel that she gets a bit of special treatment in the writing, possibly because she's a semi-autobiographical reference to Lana Wachowski's life and experience. I also wonder to what degree the Wachowskis are consciously aware of the depth of some of the concepts they explore, and to what extent they may just be really good 'receivers'.

Years ago I worked with the Wachowski siblings on a project. Both were interested in concepts similar to what we discuss here...although at the time I was pretty much a newbie on the forum. I happened to be reading a book by Barbara Marciniak on my lunch break and one of the siblings noted my interest. We had a lively discussion about high strangeness and the like. Per our conversation, both admitted they don't believe in benevolent space brothers and think there is most likely a control system that interferes with human life here on the BBM.

I haven't seen Sense8 and am rather put off by the posts about gratuitous sex scenes. Unfortunately in the entertainment industry the writers, producers and directors rarely have total control over these kinds of projects. There are sleaze-bag suits in the wings who do so-called studies and observe trends, (think Game of Thrones with it's violence and sex) then demand that this kind of junk be inserted because they are certain that's what the audience wants.

FWIW, the Wachoski siblings do what they can to get people to think about how others control our reality. I think they are probably part receivers and actually study this stuff. Their latest big-budget attempt to simplify these concepts in the film Jupiter Rising flopped at the box office. I heard from someone who worked on that film that there was a lot of interference and a push to try and make Jupiter Rising more of a Guardians of the Galaxy or more like the successful Hunger Games franchise. The latter 2 movie references were supposedly said during a meeting with high-placed suits.

 

[shijing]

I haven't seen Sense8 and am rather put off by the posts about gratuitous sex scenes. Unfortunately in the entertainment industry the writers, producers and directors rarely have total control over these kinds of projects. There are sleaze-bag suits in the wings who do so-called studies and observe trends, (think Game of Thrones with it's violence and sex) then demand that this kind of junk be inserted because they are certain that's what the audience wants.

Thanks for recounting that, NormaRegula. If that's the case, then it would be too naive to simply blame the Wachowskis for these particular failings in their productions. It also makes me feel bad for them, because it must be frustrating to have a good idea that you should be able to execute well, but have it interfered with in that way. It's frustrating as a viewer as well, because I do like the core idea of the series -- they seem to be experimenting with what we would think of as 'connecting chakras' -- but watching the final production is like being presented with a solid red pill encased in an outer layer of poo; you're forced to take the latter if you want to get to the former. I'm very put out with the sleaze-bag suits if this is what happened with Sense8.

FWIW, the Wachoski siblings do what they can to get people to think about how others control our reality. I think they are probably part receivers and actually study this stuff. Their latest big-budget attempt to simplify these concepts in the film Jupiter Rising flopped at the box office. I heard from someone who worked on that film that there was a lot of interference and a push to try and make Jupiter Rising more of a Guardians of the Galaxy or more like the successful Hunger Games franchise. The latter 2 movie references were supposedly said during a meeting with high-placed suits.

Interesting (and again, disappointing). I also read a comment on imbd last February that said Jupiter Ascending was originally supposed to be a trilogy, and one of the reasons it ended up being so disjointed is the producers were told mid-way through filming that they'd have to condense it into a single movie (this was after they had already shot the rather gratuitous rocketboot scene toward the beginning of the movie, which may have been too expensive to reduce). I was rather impressed by the Wachowskis attempt in that movie to portray a hierarchical power structure that so closely resembles what's described in the Cs and Ra material, stopping just short of introducing an actual hyperdimensional aspect. Anyway, kudos to the Wachowskis if they keep sticking it out despite all the industry manipulation.

 

[Woodsman]

Years ago I worked with the Wachowski siblings on a project. Both were interested in concepts similar to what we discuss here...although at the time I was pretty much a newbie on the forum. I happened to be reading a book by Barbara Marciniak on my lunch break and one of the siblings noted my interest. We had a lively discussion about high strangeness and the like. Per our conversation, both admitted they don't believe in benevolent space brothers and think there is most likely a control system that interferes with human life here on the BBM.

I haven't seen Sense8 and am rather put off by the posts about gratuitous sex scenes. Unfortunately in the entertainment industry the writers, producers and directors rarely have total control over these kinds of projects. There are sleaze-bag suits in the wings who do so-called studies and observe trends, (think Game of Thrones with it's violence and sex) then demand that this kind of junk be inserted because they are certain that's what the audience wants.

FWIW, the Wachoski siblings do what they can to get people to think about how others control our reality. I think they are probably part receivers and actually study this stuff. Their latest big-budget attempt to simplify these concepts in the film Jupiter Rising flopped at the box office. I heard from someone who worked on that film that there was a lot of interference and a push to try and make Jupiter Rising more of a Guardians of the Galaxy or more like the successful Hunger Games franchise. The latter 2 movie references were supposedly said during a meeting with high-placed suits.

That sounds about right.

Jupiter Ascending felt like it had undergone surgery.

I can only imagine what it must be like to have real ideas and to try to develop and broadcast them when the entire media industry around you is populated and operated by the most slithery of the lizard people.

It must be heartbreaking.

As it happens, I was just asked today if I would assist in a (very) small but creative way with a new film production brought to us by the same people who made, "American Sniper". They're working on some kind of alien awakening feature, where fearful events activate alien genetics in people. Sci-fi/horror.

-Brought through the same human lens/filter which made a pro-psychopath film like that Sniper movie? I shudder to imagine; Sounds mind-programmy.

I haven't sent a "No" yet. My draft emails swing between being too polite and too angry. It's something where a well-intentioned person thought they were doing me a favor, so it's a bit delicate.

There's money and glory available if you're willing to participate in evil, apparently. Who knew?

And yet.., if you don't try, you don't achieve anything at all. I don't envy the Wachowskis.

 

[Woodsman]

Maybe they're working on easing populations into the idea of psychic connections, (well, obviously), but in ways which are sort of in tune with how things actually seem to work and which I can sort of relate to, (though everything I experience has a lot less cinematic ka-pow).

I've been watching this til episode 4 so far. It's full of unneeded glitz around a more interesting core concept - empathy at a distance. It's not so different from what we experience here in the forum amongst each other.

Woodsman or anyone else, I just wanted to know - what have you experienced that could relate even further to the kinds of phenomena seen in this show? It seems to me that our interactions here have a possibility of spilling into real life, but I can't be sure. Like when I reply to someone here - and then I somehow get involved in a situation in my life that is apparently similar to what was discussed here. For example someone recently met a guy here and I replied and yesterday I had uncontrollable feelings of attraction to someone that really caught me off guard and ruined my day in obsessive rumination. I mean it probably sounds like a long shot but still, the feelings were generally overwhelming and unusual. I won't be meeting that person again though, it was a one off event.

The most spectacular has been some shared dream stuff. But mostly, I just get strong 'pings' from people. Knowing who is going to call and why. Primarily, this is between friends, -and not just during emergencies and "Don't Get On That Flight, Honey!"; a lot of the time it's simple stuff; you just know when somebody is thinking about you and wants to talk.

Also, less pleasant, but often useful in that it provides a further layer of information to draw from, when some big thing is about to land I'll know to have my ducks in a row before the phone even rings or the door knocker raps. It's like you can "Hear" people preparing their case before they dial.

-When people are angry or feeling high pressure emotions, I can often pick up on that along with various insights into the situation, especially if there's been a previous connection. The internet can put a string between people if you're not careful.

The loudest is when somebody is actively hating your guts, spending hours ranting about you to themselves. I had that happen once some years ago with a friend whose work I was editing, and he didn't like the changes I'd put forward. I woke up one night with his thoughts in my head and his wounded ego energy all around me. It went on for hours. I wasn't quite confident enough (that it wasn't just me being crazy) to call him up and ask him to tone it down, so I never got firm confirmation on that one, but since then I've had enough experiences to stop playing Scully to my inner Mulder and get on with things.

One of the other loud types is when I lose an argument with somebody. I can feel the other person's giddy victory, especially if we've had some history. Arguing with people is a very multi-dimensional experience. When I hurt them, I feel that as well. Winning and losing both hurt.

People who are not circumspect with their emotions and thoughts can be very splashy and loud. Think, "Teen Drama" and that's how I'd qualify the high-end of the volume dial. And folks think they're completely alone with their thoughts. They really, really aren't! Learning that was very scary when this stuff began to filter through for me. I began to pay close attention to my own 'splashy' emotions and bear in mind that some people can hear them. Your thoughts are not private, so get a grip on them. -And learn how to forgive people too.

Walking down a city street can be quite intense. I remember passing a woman once who was dealing with some kind of inner anger/pain; it wasn't in her face so much, but it literally felt like she punched me in the gut as I passed her. I prefer living in a small town with happier people.

All of this stuff becomes much more pronounced when I'm in good health and meditating regularly. It's why I stopped meditating one time and let that part of my brain go flat. I couldn't take all the bullshit 'noise' in my apartment building. But turning off isn't a wise option, so instead I'm learning how to live with it.

You don't turn off your eyes just because sometimes things appear too bright. :)

 

[Cyre2067]

I really like the show. I'm watching it at a dragged out pace because I don't have a lot of time to just watch 12 eps back to back, just finished episode 5 yesterday. Each one gets more interesting, like the writing and the acting and think it's pretty apropos given the subject matter. Granted, I have a crush on the cop, so that is likely a source of bias.

The sex doesn't bother me, it's gratuitous and unnecessary, but so what? We're all adults, and the stuff I've seen so far as been relatively tame. I'm much more revolted by child-crimes on Law & Order SVU for one example. The concept is pretty neat, and I like how it helps the characters build empathy and share information/perspectives/skills. The only character I don't like yet is the English DJ girl, but I think they're just lacking the time to get her arch up and running in 5 episodes, they have a lot of characters to work with. If you go back and watch Cloud Atlas you can see a lot of parallels with the style and script.

It's also very familiar to what happens here on the forum, like a metaphor for the work we do, dumbed down and simplified so that an audience can 'get it'. I'm curious to see where they go with the whole conspiracy angle, as it seems there are some 'bad guys' that the show only hinted at during the first episode.

 

[shijing]

The sex doesn't bother me, it's gratuitous and unnecessary, but so what? We're all adults, and the stuff I've seen so far as been relatively tame.

I'm probably somewhat sheltered as far as the sex scenes go, but for better or worse, I've acclimated to a certain extent now that I'm halfway through the first season (I'm having to watch it fairly slowly as well due to my own time constraints). Actually, in terms of what NormaRegula mentioned above, I wonder if something like this happened behind the scenes:

Wachowskis: We have this great new idea for a show -- hey Netflix, check out our concept demo!

Sleazebags in suits: Hmmm... not bad, but it needs to be sexier. Edgy sells. Please include some blatant sex scenes and we'll talk.

Wachowskis: Seriously? But it's a concept show -- it doesn't need that. We're filming all over the world, and we've got a cast in mind that just plain rocks.

Sleazebags in suits: Nope, we need sex. And some gratuitous violence -- we know you can do that one. We're also including a drug and rave music clause. The Millennials eat that stuff up.

Wachowskis: Fine. You want sex? We'll give you sex in ways you haven't even imagined -- your brains are literally going to melt But you need to let us cast that Korean actress we like -- she's fun.

Sleazebags in suits: Whatever. Just stay on contract. We need to get back to our work on Orange is the New Black now... that needs some damage control too if we're going to keep the ratings up. We'll wire some start-up money in the morning.

Who knows, but I can dream...

Granted, I have a crush on the cop, so that is likely a source of bias.

Then you'll probably like episode six ;) (yes, I watched it -- I'm very anal about missing episodes).

It's also very familiar to what happens here on the forum, like a metaphor for the work we do, dumbed down and simplified so that an audience can 'get it'.

Yes, they do do a very good job of that -- their humor has been pretty good in some places too.

 

[H-KQGE]

@Shijing, you know that's basically the flow of those meetings don't you?! Some of the "suits" will be very direct about it & others will just come right out & say what you posted. Well at least to other "suits." I thought the main sex scene (you know what I'm referring to now you've seen it) was obviously too much & did something funny to my brain even though it's nothing I haven't seen before. But given all that's been said by NR above (of course I didn't have that info but I know it's what goes on & I trusted the W siblings) I thought that it fitted the theme of the show with the whole sensory overload thing. I just didn't expect THAT. Still...


Wachowskis: Fine. You want sex? We'll give you sex in ways you haven't even imagined -- your brains are literally going to melt was likely the idea behind it.

 

[Yas]

I watched the whole series and I must say that I liked it.

But I did noticed that it was somewhat different to the usual whachowski movies, then I realised it is actually directed by another guy, they just wrote the series. So I suppose that there's a lot of addition by the actual director in how they portrayed the story and all that. I also think that the acting isn't very good and the filming is kind of amateurish in some parts.

Nevertheless, I really enjoyed watching the series because it makes me think of soul tribes and connections within them. Of course, the series takes it to the nth potential but it's quite fun.

About the explicit sex, I also had some "why am I watching this?" moments... especially in chapter 6 which is called Deamons, by the way. And I also think there's a little too much of gay rights stuff and gay stories, probably added by Lana Wachowski, which are unnecessary, IMO.


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I agree with mkrnhr that it seems like an introduction to the next season, but... hey! that's a strategy to keep us hooked to the series.

Anyway, I watched it with a friend, and he made an interesting remark about the story being a bit too slow, but it actually showed the dramas of each one of them. He said that it is interesting to see that each one has his own difficulties to overcome just like we all do. And, for what I can see, the dramas are mostly dealing with narcissistic families and the effects they had on them when they where children, as well as the expectations from society, being true to our own nature and overcoming trauma (the ending chapters deal with this in the case of the girl who lost her baby and is revisiting the trauma, but finally overcomes the paralyzing feelings)

And the idea that psychopaths are behind the "control system" that wants them dead (or lobotomized) is very interesting. They don't say psychopaths explicitly but they talk about people who don't feel anything as some sort of intraspecies.

I guess we'll have to wait and see how it goes...

 

[Z...]

But I did noticed that it was somewhat different to the usual whachowski movies, then I realised it is actually directed by another guy, they just wrote the series.

If I am not mistaken directing was alternated for different episodes (last episode which was most matrix-like was surely directed by Whachowskis)

I have to admit I enjoyed it too and didn't really find sex scenes so disturbing.

I also didn't mind terribly that the story is not very strong and some twists in subplots didn't make any sense or they were over-dramatised.
I guess this is what brings ratings and it didn't ruin the show, just made it funny.

What I liked the most was that in spite of storyline pitfalls they somehow managed to convey the atmosphere of ultimate empathy between the sensates, and also the soundtrack which was great.

So all in all I would say it was interesting and at times uplifting.

 

[FireShadow]

Re: Sense8 Another perspective on the sex scenes

I have been following this thread and have watched all the episodes. I am watching them again and am almost finished with this second round.

Initially, I was also a bit "put off" by the graphic portrayal of sex. I continued watching the show "in spite of it" as did many who posted here. Then, I began to look at that reaction in myself. I am coming out of a period of being "repulsed" by sex. Is my reaction a reflection of this? Perhaps. So, I began to try watching with a more "open mind". After all, did not Gurdjieff say that our reaction to sex should be either pleasure or neutrality? Would this apply to the visual sense as much as the experiential? I don't know, but this experiment led to some other considerations.

Aside from my period of being repulsed by sex, I have long thought that the graphic portrayal of violence in media was more offensive than the portrayal of sex. It seemed to me that priorities were upside down - that acts of destruction (violence) were considered by many to be all right to portray, but acts of creation (sex) were not. Yet, both are integral to the experience of being human on this planet.

Then, here on this forum, we have explored different kinds of sex - Sex as merely self-gratification and sex as bonding and emotionally connecting. And, we have explored the "taboo" factor and how it actually increases the craving for sex (of the self-gratification type) - Are we just in the habit of objecting to graphic portrayals of sex? Will "normalizing" portrayals of sex help neutralize the taboo? I don't know, but the questions did occur to me.

As I watched with these considerations in mind, I began to see the portrayals in Sense8 a little differently.

First, most of the sex scenes were of the loving emotional bonding type (not at Karezza level, but still a portrayal of caring). These scenes seemed to be filmed more "up close and personal". In the one scene I can recall where the sex seemed more for self-gratification (Wolfgang in Berlin), it seemed to have been filmed from a "more distant" point. Perhaps, this graphic portrayal of "making love" versus "just sex" provides a model for connecting as opposed to just "getting off" (as in porn). Again, I don't know...just something to consider.

As I watched, I noticed that the graphic portrayal made the lives of the characters more real and immediate. After all, sex is very much a concern of (especially young) adults. To leave out something so integral would (I think leave) a hole in this story. If each fight is shown "blow by blow" for the purpose of illustrating the intensity of experience, then why not show the intensity of experience in making love?

It also occurred to me that the graphic portrayals of sex illustrated the depth of intimacy that the characters shared within their cluster and how very intense it must be. Once I got past my resistance/objections, I saw beauty (alongside my discomfort) in these portrayals. Perhaps, given the overall theme of this show, the portrayals are entirely appropriate.

In the end, I have not formed any final conclusions for myself, just considerations.

Overall, I like the show. I especially like how each character has "moral dilemmas" to solve. I like how when they are sharing their stories with each other, they listen to each other and don't try to fix each other. They offer assistance in the form of what they have learned in their own lives and in the form of their skills when needed, but otherwise allow the other to work things out themselves.

Above, I mentioned that we have explored some of these issues of sex here on the forum. For those new to the forum or those who missed those threads for whatever reason, here are just two of those threads:

No Longer Interested in Sex - http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,20621.0.html
Cupid's Poisoned Arrow - http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,21030.0.html

 

[NormaRegula]

Thanks for your input regarding the show's portrayal of sexuality, FireShadow, and the links.

I plan to watch some of the show this weekend and will be on the look-out for some of the points you made.