Sense8

Just a few more comments I want to make on this show...

In these times of great polarity where people are so divided over things like religion, race, sexuality, etc, I find the show refreshing. I like how we get a glimpse into several cultures. I like how each individual character is from a different culture and even subculture, but somehow through the experience of "sharing" and empathy, they are united. I think it makes a fine model of how we can all be quite different, yet united. That the more important differences are not in forms (like what color we are or what religion we follow), but in the substance of who we are - do we care about others or are we predatory (most of the antagonists are predatory/narcissistic)? Do we do the right thing, or do we not (from a lack of courage and not wanting to lose what we have)? How to know what that right thing is? How we can be inspired by those we are united with.

I may have missed something or "filled in the gaps" somehow, but I did not notice any of the subplots not making sense. It all seems to fit for me. Except the scene where the concert was going on at night in Iceland, and the 4th of July celebration was also at night in Chicago, and it was night in San Francisco...yet they were all synched together. I wondered how it could be approximately the same time in all the time zones.

And, I was impressed with the filming - I liked a lot of the imagery and the shifting back and forth when they "visited" each other. Although, the series did start out slow, it really picked up, I thought. All in all, I found it engaging and thought provoking.
 
Fireshadow,

What you have said is almost precisely why I enjoyed the show as well, but couldn't quite verbalize as well as you. Thank you. I think you are right about the sexuality, and that if I had actually observed what it was in me that made me uncomfortable, instead just thinking it was gratuitous, I may have learned something more as well. I agree that I would rather see 'love making' than violence anyway. But I do feel the violence had its place too. It was their warrior's journey, and they had to learn how to cooperate together in order to overcome the challenges they faced. I think I saw it metaphorically as how this forum operates.
 
Shijing said:
One thing I noticed were a couple of roundabout references to Lost, i.e. the casting of Naveen Andrews and the creation of another Korean character named Sun Paek (백선). I don't know if that's intentional or not (Paek is a very common Korean surname), but Lost was another ambitious multi-character show that seemed to give hints about how reality really works 'behind the curtain'.
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Having watched the first episode the other day, I have to correct you on the Korean character's name. It's not Sun Paek, it's Sun Bak. I did get a Lost "feel" for the show, since it's very ensemble and diverse like Lost was.
 
Heimdallr said:
Having watched the first episode the other day, I have to correct you on the Korean character's name. It's not Sun Paek, it's Sun Bak.
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Yes, you're right that they're different -- I had wrongly assumed that they were two alternative spellings for the surname borrowed from Chinese 白, but it looks like Bak is actually another surname borrowed from Chinese 朴. Thanks for noting that, Heimdallr.
 
FireShadow said:
I like how when they are sharing their stories with each other, they listen to each other and don't try to fix each other. They offer assistance in the form of what they have learned in their own lives and in the form of their skills when needed, but otherwise allow the other to work things out themselves.
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Here you verbalized something i couldn't. This is what I meant when I said the atmosphere of ultimate empathy. No judgment, no drama and feeding, just total acceptance and being there for each-other, this impressed me the most.


FireShadow said:
I may have missed something or "filled in the gaps" somehow, but I did not notice any of the subplots not making sense. It all seems to fit for me. Except the scene where the concert was going on at night in Iceland, and the 4th of July celebration was also at night in Chicago, and it was night in San Francisco...yet they were all synched together. I wondered how it could be approximately the same time in all the time zones.
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Apart from wrong time-zone synchronizing you mentioned there were few other non nonsensical moments. These are some that come to mind immediately:
SPOILER alert!!!

- Boliwood pre-wedding moment was pretty unrealistic and over the top.
- Kenyan overlord hires Van Dam to transport his daughter incognito and yet soon after he delivers her in public with his flashy mini bus for everyone to see?
- I liked the character of Korean girl but overall it was very unrealistic.
- In the finale Nomi's girlfriend instantly becomes hacking expert?
- Medically inducing unconsciousness for prolonged periods of time with one intramuscular shot and keep doing it over and over again made me cringe. Its possible but would be terribly risky.
- How did they find Nomi and how come she was instantly put in the care of evil surgeon, if I am not mistaken when the Persian guy saw her collapsing he was not yet connected to Whispers.
- Cop's entry into facility where they held DJ girl was also very unrealistic. That thing about the car was just lame, but perhaps I dont have that " flashy car in distress gene".

There were more as I was watching but cannot remember now.
 
Z said:
Apart from wrong time-zone synchronizing you mentioned there were few other non nonsensical moments. These are some that come to mind immediately:
SPOILER alert!!!

- Boliwood pre-wedding moment was pretty unrealistic and over the top.
- Kenyan overlord hires Van Dam to transport his daughter incognito and yet soon after he delivers her in public with his flashy mini bus for everyone to see?
- I liked the character of Korean girl but overall it was very unrealistic.
- In the finale Nomi's girlfriend instantly becomes hacking expert?
- Medically inducing unconsciousness for prolonged periods of time with one intramuscular shot and keep doing it over and over again made me cringe. Its possible but would be terribly risky.
- How did they find Nomi and how come she was instantly put in the care of evil surgeon, if I am not mistaken when the Persian guy saw her collapsing he was not yet connected to Whispers.
- Cop's entry into facility where they held DJ girl was also very unrealistic. That thing about the car was just lame, but perhaps I dont have that " flashy car in distress gene".

There were more as I was watching but cannot remember now.
Click to expand...

- Boliwood pre-wedding moment was pretty unrealistic and over the top. - I have never been to India, but I have long wanted to visit there. I recently read "Shantaram" which is set in Bombay (excellent book, by the way). In the way the author describes their love for Bollywood movies, this scene seemed to fit with that...even if it was "more than would happen in the real world". Perhaps it was merely an exaggeration for effect (the "perfect" romantic dream come true which adds to our Kala's dilemma of really wanting to love her fiancee, but not feeling it)...and I did enjoy the scene, it was beautiful (with the costumes and the dancing).

- Kenyan overlord hires Van Dam to transport his daughter incognito and yet soon after he delivers her in public with his flashy mini bus for everyone to see? - Actually, I noticed that, too (and forgot about it when I posted my previous comment)- at least the part where the Kenyan delivers his daughter to Van Dam with a convoy of his black cars. But, it is possible that no one would notice that a mini bus just happened to be in the street at the same time as all those cars...after all, those mini buses are as ubiquitous as taxis are for us (who notices taxis?). As for Van Dam dropping her off at the clinic, I resolved it by thinking that the Kenyan's enemies know his cars (as he said in one scene), but do not necessarily know what his daughter looks like. Seeing a flashy mini-bus dropping off a little girl at a clinic would not necessarily draw attention. So, I am not sure about this one.

- I liked the character of Korean girl but overall it was very unrealistic. - I like her too. I have no basis for determining what is realistic for her. The only thing I really questioned was how the company did not lose face if she took the fall versus her brother since both are the children of the father/man in charge and her relationship is revealed in her speech. However, I do not really understand what all goes into their cultural rules on "face". She is a little larger than life, but I have come to accept that a lot of movies have characters that are. I guess I made allowances for "artistic license".

- In the finale Nomi's girlfriend instantly becomes hacking expert? - I totally missed this one! I will be re-watching it soon and will pay attention to this point.

- Medically inducing unconsciousness for prolonged periods of time with one intramuscular shot and keep doing it over and over again made me cringe. Its possible but would be terribly risky. - I totally missed this too, however, I am not really well versed in what is realistic in this context and since I am a bit phobic of needles and medical procedures, I tend to tune out those parts.

- How did they find Nomi and how come she was instantly put in the care of evil surgeon, if I am not mistaken when the Persian guy saw her collapsing he was not yet connected to Whispers. - It is my understanding that yes, Jonas (the Persian guy) was already connected to Whispers. Remember, the Icelandic woman who told Riley that Jonas was a "collaborator" indicating that Jonas was connected to Whispers before the current "cluster" was even born. I am not sure what to think about Jonas...is he still a collaborator? Is that why he was seeking Nomi and Will? Was he really trying to help them or was he "hunting" for Whispers? I think we are supposed to be left wondering that as a mystery to be revealed later in the series.

- Cop's entry into facility where they held DJ girl was also very unrealistic. That thing about the car was just lame, but perhaps I dont have that " flashy car in distress gene". - Ha Ha! I just wrote that down to Hollywood sensationalism and an injection of humor! But, yes I agree that was a bit over the top!

I have come to expect a certain amount of exaggeration from Hollywood. Some of it is for sensationalism to capture the attention of the general public (gotta have a lot of action and explosions you know) and some is exaggerated to make a point (artistic license)...at least as far as I can see.
 
FireShadow said:
- How did they find Nomi and how come she was instantly put in the care of evil surgeon, if I am not mistaken when the Persian guy saw her collapsing he was not yet connected to Whispers. - It is my understanding that yes, Jonas (the Persian guy) was already connected to Whispers. Remember, the Icelandic woman who told Riley that Jonas was a "collaborator" indicating that Jonas was connected to Whispers before the current "cluster" was even born. I am not sure what to think about Jonas...is he still a collaborator? Is that why he was seeking Nomi and Will? Was he really trying to help them or was he "hunting" for Whispers? I think we are supposed to be left wondering that as a mystery to be revealed later in the series.
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it was my understanding that Whispers was able to gaze into Jonas' eyes only after he was caught thanks to Will. And if I am not mistaken this happened after he made appearance to Nomi and she collapsed.
The Icelandic woman's character didn't make much sense either. If Jonas was collaborator he wouldn't urge Will to help Nomi and he would lead Whispers straight to Will.

Indeed the story seems to be full of holes.
 
Z said:
FireShadow said:
- How did they find Nomi and how come she was instantly put in the care of evil surgeon, if I am not mistaken when the Persian guy saw her collapsing he was not yet connected to Whispers. - It is my understanding that yes, Jonas (the Persian guy) was already connected to Whispers. Remember, the Icelandic woman who told Riley that Jonas was a "collaborator" indicating that Jonas was connected to Whispers before the current "cluster" was even born. I am not sure what to think about Jonas...is he still a collaborator? Is that why he was seeking Nomi and Will? Was he really trying to help them or was he "hunting" for Whispers? I think we are supposed to be left wondering that as a mystery to be revealed later in the series.
Click to expand...

it was my understanding that Whispers was able to gaze into Jonas' eyes only after he was caught thanks to Will. And if I am not mistaken this happened after he made appearance to Nomi and she collapsed.
The Icelandic woman's character didn't make much sense either. If Jonas was collaborator he wouldn't urge Will to help Nomi and he would lead Whispers straight to Will.

Indeed the story seems to be full of holes.
Click to expand...

I don't think we know enough yet. And, I don't think it is so "cut and dried". I can see several possibilities...

If indeed Jonas was a collaborator even before "our" cluster was born, he would already be connected to Whispers. If Jonas had been a willing collaborator, he may have changed his mind about it. Or, seeming to help Will and Nomi may be part of a "manipulation". If he was an unwilling collaborator, he may have been trying to "work around Whispers" or escape being a collaborator. We just don't know enough yet.

If he was a collaborator (willing or not), it is also possible that he was "sent to hunt" the members of the cluster (Jonas may know them because of his connection to Angela who "birthed" the cluster). In order for Jonas to connect to each member, he must make eye contact, so he must be allowed to physically travel to see each one. Once he made eye contact with Nomi, he may have been "captured" because it was part of a plan. Or perhaps he was captured because Whispers realized Jonas was trying to help them...and Whispers felt he was losing control over Jonas?

Or perhaps, Jonas had previously escaped Whispers and was trying to warn the cluster members. Although why he did not use the same "drugs" Angela had been using to keep Whispers from finding her (that is,until she ran out)...or maybe he was and that was why an alert to have him caught as a "terrorist" was posted...

...Again, we just don't know enough yet.

One thing I like to keep in mind is that with pathological types (like Whispers), there are always "plans within plans" and nothing is ever as it seems. Think "controlled opposition" for example...
 
Z, I just re-watched the opening scene and I see where you got the understanding that Whispers had not yet made eye contact with Jonas.

At one point, Whispers was "visiting" Angela and said he looked forward to meeting Jonas. I apparently did not catch this the first two times I watched it.

But, Whispers was obviously connected to Angela enough to at least "visit" her. And, Whispers made comment to Angela that "you are one of us", implying she may be in a cluster with Whispers. And, he made a comment of being able to feel her pain, again implying a cluster relationship to her. We later learn that sensates not in the same cluster could "visit" each other after having previously making eye contact, but only cluster members could "share" as in seeing and feeling what the other saw and felt.

Then, she said she could "see" them (the new cluster) and if Whispers is indeed part of a cluster with her, he would see what she saw and feel what she felt.

So, Whispers may know something of the cluster members from that connection...and it may explain why he was able to find Nomi so quickly in the real world (as opposed to "visiting" which requires eye contact).

Still, pathological people lie and so I am not yet sure what we can believe. Hopefully, it will be revealed in coming seasons. Yes, I do plan on watching next year if we are all still here and the internet still works.
 
@FireShadow, I can't remember most of the smaller events but "Whispers" was connected to the "birth mother" & so was Jonas. Whether there was an escape by J or Angela (seems that way to me) or J was part of a misinformed naive group helping W in the beginning (the woman in Iceland and her inferences) then tried to rectify mistakes, I don't know. But J seemed to be connected to W but not via eye contact or he would have been able to "invade his space."

Also, wasn't there some explanation about the cluster being born on the same day(s?) & around the same time? Doesn't W have dossiers on them or something? I've often wondered about the significance of such an event & the connections on both the micro & macro level.

The Bollywood thing was just too much I thought. Even rich people in the culture don't tend to go so over-elaborate from what I understand. I was more concerned that no one seemed to grok that the woman wasn't really interested. Or the groom's father.

The Kenyan overlord thing I think was part explained that his daughter hadn't been seen even with his fleet of flashy motors. What I found "off" was the fact that VD had quickly gained a reputation & the areas of the story shown didn't seem large (think how many people were suddenly clamouring to use his bus for safety) so his van was just a massive target to me. I mean just tail the guy & see what he's up to right?

I agree about the Korean woman, though from my limited understanding of "face" (the maddening things people do in my culture is second to none when it comes to "saving face" - literally create your own reality) this is huge in oriental communities. She's currently my favourite - I have a martial arts bias - but knowing how she was treated (narcissistic wounding) I was perplexed as to why she would let her idiot brother get away with his antics. Yeah I know, looking good in front of daddy, mum's dying wish & all that but still, her brother was a cretin straight out of dozens of Hong Kong movies & shows (especially Korean ones - that aren't Glee-like LOL) & she goes ahead. I think there's a thread on the forum about saving "face" too.

I think someone with fresh eyes will have to see the Nomi scenes (concerning her girlfriend's hacking skills) cuz all I can think of is when Nomi's old hacking bud returned. Maybe he gave some advanced tutorials in the interim. I just skipped over the bits in the finale where there was miraculous hacking. Perhaps this was explained somehow & was cut due to runtime? Goes on all the time.

Nomi in the hospital was the toughest watch for me, but I'm not sure that the medically induced bouts of unconsciousness were that long (and sped up rapidly) you know. Her immediately being put in care was due to the doctor being on the payroll of W & "his" (multi?) corporations which have been hunting sense8 people for.... however long. Unless I'm mixing & matching other tv shows cuz I often see scenes & similar dialogues from other shows, even the Van Damme thing was like another tv show.

The car thing was embarrassing cuz it was depicted worse than what was in my head. Incredibly this nonsense actually works but I don't think guards would just walk away from their posts because of a wrecked "beautiful" car, they probably would leave to see what a car on fire in their base in the middle of nowhere was doing there though. That infiltration into the base scene was underwhelming - the whole thing - to say the least. Funnily enough I wanna know if that Indian woman is still into Wolfgang after witnessing the videogame-like carnage he unleashed on his uncle, or whoever that fella was.



Edit: spelling.
 
I'm up to episode 6 and am really enjoying it. Like others, I found the first episode pretty slow, but I stuck with it and am glad I did.

The sex is excessive, an unnecessary distraction from an interesting story. I find sex in movies just as effective when it is simply implied. When Nomi and her girlfriend finished having sex in the first episode, and the directors took the time to show them removing the strap-on, I was okay with that because it actually answered the question that was in my head at that moment.

But was it really necessary to show a full-frame closeup of the dildo on the floor? Right after it had been used? Unfortunately, I imagined what the equivalent shot would have been if it had been a man and a woman, or two men... maybe it's just me, but I found that to be bordering on gross.

I really like the idea of what links them together being their good natures, but I also like the aspect of the PTB hunting them down and putting a stop to it. How do you stop evolution?

Very cool show!
 
The show has a lot of heart, and all the main characters are really likable. They aren't caricatures, not perfect, but pretty well-fleshed out individuals. The writing/dialogue is clunky and cliche at times, but the cinematography and score is really well done. They are sure taking their time getting into the actual plot of the show, but I don't mind slow burns that allow for character development. But I am curious (6 episodes in) when they're going to introduce the big baddie that the group is going to have to unite against. My guess - clearly it's a shadowy organization related to government with psychopathic tendencies. ;)

Oh, the karaoke scene with the 4 Non Blondes song, I really enjoyed that moment. It's one of my favorite scenes in a TV show I've seen in a while. But I love karaoke!

 
Heimdallr said:
The show has a lot of heart, and all the main characters are really likable. They aren't caricatures, not perfect, but pretty well-fleshed out individuals.
(...)
Oh, the karaoke scene with the 4 Non Blondes song, I really enjoyed that moment. It's one of my favorite scenes in a TV show I've seen in a while. But I love karaoke!
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I really enjoyed that scene as well, and one of the things made it great was that their singing was what you'd hear from real voices, not over produced or having some musical flare.
 
Heimdallr said:
But I am curious (6 episodes in) when they're going to introduce the big baddie that the group is going to have to unite against. My guess - clearly it's a shadowy organization related to government with psychopathic tendencies. ;)
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After reading today's session, I thought it was interesting that this series also incorporates the idea of people with a certain genetic profile being hunted down and lobotomized. In a way, that's kind of what some parasite infections seem to do...
 
Those we are looking for next episodes of Sense8, they have a new 'Christmas special' 2 hr episode on Netflix. It looks all other episodes of season 2 will be available in May 2017.
 
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