Session 13 June 2015

casper

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Laura said:
Q: (L) Okay, now here's another question. I think people will probably be interested in this one. So, let's go with it:

The last couple of months especially, but actually since the new pope Francis came into power, it seems like he is trying to do something good in all sorts of areas. For example he said on more than one occasion how bad war is, that we should stop it, and that the system/governments are the only ones who need war. He said for example that a war with Syria is not a good idea back in 2013 and also wrote an letter to Putin in that respect back then. It almost seems like what he is saying about wars is directed to the war machine of the US-Elite and their followers, and not just a general, "No war anymore". So it is not just that he is saying such things, but he seems to follow his words with actions. Recently, he recognized Palestine as a state, which is quite a big move. He said to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in the Vatican, "May you be an angel of peace." Then he recently created, as far as I know for the first time in the history of the church, "a judicial mechanism, a Tribunal for Bishop Negligence in Child Sexual Abuse Cases". In other words, people in the church, that are accused of either covering up or being engaged in sexual abuse of children can now be charged in a tribunal court which is based on a judicial mechanism. Quite a big thing as well.

So is the pope doing all those things because he has a conscience or is there something else behind it, like some kind of plan to appease the people in the world, who more or less wake up and see the propaganda for what it is, in order to bring the Catholic church back "into play" now, or in the near future?


A: ... Francis really wants to do good but he also understands the forces in play.
Today's interview in the Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera, which the high Orthodox leader (Metropolitan Hilarion, head of the Foreign Affairs of the Russian Orthodox Church) said, quote:
"Historic encounter Francis Pope and Patriarch Kirill, head of the Russian Orthodox Church, every day is getting closer, but it must be well prepared."
The meeting should be held on "neutral country", probably Austria or Hungary.

I have a feeling that some things finally resolved after the separation of Christianity back
1054, so let's just wait and see :cool2:
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
casper said:
Laura said:
Q: (L) Okay, now here's another question. I think people will probably be interested in this one. So, let's go with it:

The last couple of months especially, but actually since the new pope Francis came into power, it seems like he is trying to do something good in all sorts of areas. For example he said on more than one occasion how bad war is, that we should stop it, and that the system/governments are the only ones who need war. He said for example that a war with Syria is not a good idea back in 2013 and also wrote an letter to Putin in that respect back then. It almost seems like what he is saying about wars is directed to the war machine of the US-Elite and their followers, and not just a general, "No war anymore". So it is not just that he is saying such things, but he seems to follow his words with actions. Recently, he recognized Palestine as a state, which is quite a big move. He said to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in the Vatican, "May you be an angel of peace." Then he recently created, as far as I know for the first time in the history of the church, "a judicial mechanism, a Tribunal for Bishop Negligence in Child Sexual Abuse Cases". In other words, people in the church, that are accused of either covering up or being engaged in sexual abuse of children can now be charged in a tribunal court which is based on a judicial mechanism. Quite a big thing as well.

So is the pope doing all those things because he has a conscience or is there something else behind it, like some kind of plan to appease the people in the world, who more or less wake up and see the propaganda for what it is, in order to bring the Catholic church back "into play" now, or in the near future?


A: ... Francis really wants to do good but he also understands the forces in play.
Today's interview in the Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera, which the high Orthodox leader (Metropolitan Hilarion, head of the Foreign Affairs of the Russian Orthodox Church) said, quote:
"Historic encounter Francis Pope and Patriarch Kirill, head of the Russian Orthodox Church, every day is getting closer, but it must be well prepared."
The meeting should be held on "neutral country", probably Austria or Hungary.

I have a feeling that some things finally resolved after the separation of Christianity back
1054, so let's just wait and see :cool2:
Casper,

Thank you for the update. It is certainly an interesting development.
 

SeekinTruth

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Yeah, Pope Francis actually wanting to do good wherever/however possible (or mostly impossible) was a real surprise for me. Just could not take anything he says seriously, thinking it's just lip service. But I'm paying attention with a more open mind to try to see the nuances of what he tries that may improve human lives/the world to see if there's a consistency there. Looking back, I have to admit that some of his stances have been surprisingly right and relatively consistent (especially when it comes to worldly matters outside the religious context - just common sense/common decency types of stances). The thing that increased my suspicions about Pope Francis was also his supposed background as a cardinal in Argentina. I'd read about how he basically sided against the people/"liberation theology" clergy and with the fascist oligarchy in articles about him when he first came on the scene as Pope/candidate. But maybe those stories were not so accurate?

About Putin (and his team). I first began paying attention to him when he cleaned out the original dual-citizen oligarchs ("the Family") in Russia, and especially a bit later, after the Yukos case and the arrest of Khordokovsky (sp?) and the western media typical coverage of this criminal's case. But his 2007 speech at the security conference in Germany was one of the first instances of him making such a clear and truthful statement about global affairs that made me pay more attention to his role in international affairs. At that time, Chavez was still on the scene (also Gaddafi), but these leaders never had the kind of power (leading a country as powerful as Russia on the world scene to really be able to oppose the criminal cabal running the world when push comes to shove), and were easier to demonize and caricature than Putin. Also Putin is less of an ideologue; he's not so rigid on what ideology is "correct" and is more practical and just uses common sense / common decency (as uncommon as those have become) as the basis for his stances. Assad is also similar, but again can't have the kind of influence that Putin / Russia can. Just having non-pathological and highly competent leaders like Putin (and Lavrov, etc.) is so refreshing that it gives one hope that the world isn't completely corrupted in total....
 

cubbex

The Living Force
When I read this article I facepalmed.

http://www.sott.net/article/298197-Poroshenko-admits-overthrow-of-Yanukovych-was-a-coup

They cannot be more cynical. They seriously don't have any respect for those they hurt.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Prometeo said:
When I read this article I facepalmed.

http://www.sott.net/article/298197-Poroshenko-admits-overthrow-of-Yanukovych-was-a-coup

They cannot be more cynical. They seriously don't have any respect for those they hurt.
Prometeo,

And, as you have said before about the condition of many these days even if they would read this SOTT article:

I have found this opinion makes some react in a very hysterical or moralistic way, some don't, and is possible that some through their lives become so much of a mechanical body, and so ignorant, that when they die nothing ethereal survives the destruction. There was not a mind but a programmed cognition, and there is no conscience because that person never tried to acquire one. If you are programmed to be nice, that does not mean you are willingly nice, I say.
Hopefully, there are still some who will face the reality of what is happening right before their eyes.

Thanks
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
United Gnosis said:
BHelmet said:
He [John Todd] said they are casting spells. Now, I don't necessarily believe this, but the musicians themselves or their handlers, or, in the cases that the vocalist has invited in some sort of 'entity' - THEY believe and think this is what they are doing. (if, in fact, this is what they are doing)
Well, technically, this is what they are doing, knowingly or not (knowingly for most mainstream artists à la Lady Gaga, see website VigilantCitizen for analysis).

Magic being defined as the application of spiritual knowledge to obtain desired ends, a subset of which is spells, incantations used to define and mold reality. To the extent that every sentence (and its accompanying intonation) is a specific carrier of meaning, if accepted either by system 1 or system 2 of the listener, it will come to be integrated into the subjective inner landscape, thus molding the perception of experiences, thus affecting judgment, thus influencing the action/reaction profiles of large swathes of the population. If this is not "casting a spell", i don't know what is - or should i also spell it out?

Every word is magic, every sentence is a spell, and to the extent such a sentence is acknowledged/internalized, it will hold sway over the receiver. (Read it over)

(Hence the the fact that Knowledge protects, by allowing for discernment between the Real and non-real, preventing the non-real (STS) from taking hold.)

Edit: p.s. thank you to laura and all the crew for this session, and thank you to the forum for this discussion!

Gurdjieff on magic:

"All that has been said up till now refers to real groups connected with real concrete work which in its turn is connected with what has been called the 'fourth way.' But there are many imitation ways, imitation groups, and imitation work. These are not even 'black magic.'

"Questions have often been asked at these lectures as to what is 'black magic' and I have replied that there is neither red, green, nor yellow magic. There is mechanics, that is, what 'happens,' and there is 'doing.' 'Doing' is magic and 'doing' can be only of one kind. There cannot be two kinds of 'doing.' But there can be a falsification, an imitation of the outward appearance of 'doing,' which cannot give any objective results but which can deceive naive people and produce in them faith, infatuation, enthusiasm, and even fanaticism.

"This is why in true work, that is, in true 'doing,' the producing of infatuation in people is not allowed. What you call black magic is based on infatuation and on playing upon human weaknesses. Black magic does not in any way mean magic of evil. I have already said earlier that no one ever does anything for the sake of evil, in the interests of evil. Everyone always does everything in the interests of good as he understands it. In the same way it is quite wrong to assert that black magic must necessarily be egoistical, that in black magic a man strives after some results for himself. This is quite wrong. Black magic may be quite altruistic, may strive after the good of humanity or after the salvation of humanity from real or imaginary evils. But what can be called black magic has always one definite characteristic. This characteristic is the tendency to use people for some, even the best of aims, without their knowledge and understanding, either by producing in them faith and infatuation or by acting upon them through fear.

"But it must be remembered in this connection that a 'black magician,' whether good or evil, has at all events been at a school. He has learned something, has heard something, knows something. He is simply a 'half-educated man' who has either been turned out of a school or who has himself left a school having decided that he already knows enough, that he does not want to be in subordination any longer, and that he can work independently and even direct the work of others.

"All 'work' of this kind can produce only subjective results, that is to say, it can only increase deception and increase sleep instead of decreasing them. Nevertheless something can be learned from a 'black magician' although in the wrong way. He can sometimes by accident even tell the truth. That is why I say that there are many things worse than 'black magic.' Such are various 'occult' and theosophical societies and groups. Not only have their teachers never been at a school but they have never even met anyone who has been near a school. Their work simply consists in aping. But imitation work of this kind gives a great deal of self-satisfaction. One man feels himself to be a 'teacher,' others feel that they are 'pupils,' and everyone is satisfied. No realization of one's nothingness can be got here and if people affirm that they have it, it is all illusion and self-deception, if not plain deceit. On the contrary, instead of realizing their own nothingness the members of such circles acquire a realization of their own importance and a growth of false personality.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Laura said:
United Gnosis said:
BHelmet said:
He [John Todd] said they are casting spells. Now, I don't necessarily believe this, but the musicians themselves or their handlers, or, in the cases that the vocalist has invited in some sort of 'entity' - THEY believe and think this is what they are doing. (if, in fact, this is what they are doing)
Well, technically, this is what they are doing, knowingly or not (knowingly for most mainstream artists à la Lady Gaga, see website VigilantCitizen for analysis).

Magic being defined as the application of spiritual knowledge to obtain desired ends, a subset of which is spells, incantations used to define and mold reality. To the extent that every sentence (and its accompanying intonation) is a specific carrier of meaning, if accepted either by system 1 or system 2 of the listener, it will come to be integrated into the subjective inner landscape, thus molding the perception of experiences, thus affecting judgment, thus influencing the action/reaction profiles of large swathes of the population. If this is not "casting a spell", i don't know what is - or should i also spell it out?

Every word is magic, every sentence is a spell, and to the extent such a sentence is acknowledged/internalized, it will hold sway over the receiver. (Read it over)

(Hence the the fact that Knowledge protects, by allowing for discernment between the Real and non-real, preventing the non-real (STS) from taking hold.)

Edit: p.s. thank you to laura and all the crew for this session, and thank you to the forum for this discussion!
...
Session 30 March 2002
Thanks to Laura for the interesting Gurdjieff quote on magic. Here something I think may be related as well:

Q: (V) I guess I've been thinking it's a tool just as this is a tool (holds up symbol displayed earlier). No I don't think a symbol can
control consciousness...when it's put that way. But I want to say that I think they can be used as tools also. Not to be right or
anything but this my thinking at this time.
A: What quality of an individual would have to be present to set the effect of a symbol against consciousness?
Q: (V) I don't understand that. (L) I think they are saying that the presence of a negative energy implies the presence of a negative
consciousness. It's either the consciousness of the individual who is experiencing it or it is the consciousness being projected from
somebody else. And if one or the other of those is the condition - say for example: if you had negative energy that was being sent to
you from someone else, and you wanted to set this symbol against that negative energy, what quality would have to be present in
you in order to make that work? (V) A lack of negativity. (L) I don't think so. You already have negativity right? So you're going to
use the symbol to make it go away assuming it was sent on you. So what do you have to have to make the symbol work? (V) A
conscious effort? (L) Faith. You have to believe in the symbol. And if you believe in the symbol then you are putting the power in
something outside of you, you don't believe that you have the ability to stand against the negative consciousness. On the other hand,
if the consciousness of negativity is your own, and you believe a symbol can stand against your own negativity, you haven't inquired
into where the negativity comes from. (A) You see a tool is something which you must know exactly how it operates, because
otherwise it's not a tool; you are the tool of something else - the originator of the tool who may not have your best interests at heart.
So you must exactly know, and have precise knowledge of, the tool if it is to be a tool. So a tool is a projection - an extension - of
what is in you.
A: Otherwise you are the tool of the tool
Lack of knowledge or lack of awareness I think makes you a "tool of the tool". Whatever the mechanism for infusing music with manipulative influence it is up to us to find whether we see it as a good influence or an evil one. The characteristics involved may be many for the delivery system and the message being imparted OSIT.
 

nicklebleu

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I remember a session where the Cs said (along the lines) that the problem is not so much our exposure to negative influences, but how we perceive it. So as long as we are aware that this music, or whatever else, has a negative undercurrent, it won't affect us much.

Tried to find the relevant session, but failed - I'm sure goyacobol (or, omeone else) might be able to retrieve it.
 

Divide by Zero

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
nicklebleu said:
I remember a session where the Cs said (along the lines) that the problem is not so much our exposure to negative influences, but how we perceive it. So as long as we are aware that this music, or whatever else, has a negative undercurrent, it won't affect us much.

Tried to find the relevant session, but failed - I'm sure goyacobol (or, omeone else) might be able to retrieve it.
Interesting!

There are kinds of music that I liked growing up that I cannot stand now. I suppose on a subconscious level it might be a form of protection (via negative emotions?). I sometimes wonder if I am over sensitive in hearing, because it can put me in a horrible mood, haha.
 
I remember a transcript where the C's said "When they are done programming us, they will come". I feel and see the programing increasing in speed in everything these days, (musiic, movies, TV et al). My thought is that the speed is a combination of my increasing awareness and their increasing "wishful thinking" that they are in control of the "end game" via the "Media".
I feel the dots are connecting everywhere. I feel lonely for human contact to endure the horror of it all. Thank you all for the only sanity I have found to go on. Your couage and vigilance is remarkable. I hope I can do for any other, if they ask for my guidance, a way for them to find their own truth through knowledge.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Divide By Zero said:
nicklebleu said:
I remember a session where the Cs said (along the lines) that the problem is not so much our exposure to negative influences, but how we perceive it. So as long as we are aware that this music, or whatever else, has a negative undercurrent, it won't affect us much.

Tried to find the relevant session, but failed - I'm sure goyacobol (or, omeone else) might be able to retrieve it.
Interesting!

There are kinds of music that I liked growing up that I cannot stand now. I suppose on a subconscious level it might be a form of protection (via negative emotions?). I sometimes wonder if I am over sensitive in hearing, because it can put me in a horrible mood, haha.
nicklebleu & Divide By Zero,

I think I did find the reference to what the Cs were saying about "negative influences" and being on alert and aware. I wish the search engine here was better but I will do my best to help when I can.

Here I what I think you were remembering:

Session 9 April 2011
Q: (Burma Jones) What do they mean by “psychic hygiene”?
A: Being careful about what you allow into your ”field”.
Q: (L) In what sense?
A: All senses.
Q: (L) What do you mean “all senses”?
A: Seeing, hearing, speaking, and so on
Q: (Ark) So, uh, I will tell a story about this “using all your senses”. A few days ago, I went out and I almost had an accident. I was
driving on the interior peripherique - on the lane that was closest to the middle. There are three lanes. There was a guy behind me
who was very unhappy that I was driving only 90kmh. He was swaying from left to right, trying to get past me and I could see it in
the rear-view mirror. I looked to the right and realized I cannot do anything, because there was a car. I could see it.
So, I stayed. After about two minutes, you know, the one behind me again starts to act impatient behind me. But then, I look in the
mirror again and the car to the right is gone. So I figure he must have moved somewhere else. Then I started to do {Ark makes
descriptive hand gestures showing his driving maneuver} – only the car was there exactly in the right angle [to be in the blind spot.]
But, uh, he was a young guy and he was fast. He steps on the brakes – and nothing happened, you see? I usually do not do such
things. I was thinking very fast and that he must be gone, but I was not 100% sure. So, I should have waited until I was 100% sure.
So, of course nothing happened, he just got upset.
A: We have more in mind. Take care with interacting with negative energies.
Q: (L) Well that’s kinda like creating your own reality, isn’t it?
A: Not what we mean… Keep your guard up and do not allow negative energies to slip by… such as believing lies… listening to
negative music while thinking it is positive
…watching negative movies and thinking it is negligible. It is extremely important to not lie
to the self. One can listen or watch many things as long as the truth of the orientation is known, acknowledged, and understood.
Clear?

Q: (L) So, in other words: awareness. Calling a spade a spade and not allowing something negative to enter you and believing it is
positive. You can see it, perceive it and acknowledge it but not allow it to influence you. Because obviously, you cannot shut off your
perceptions of the world, but you can control how it affects you. So, don’t let it inside, thinking it’s something that it’s not.
(Belibaste) So, see it as it is. If it is negative, see it as negative.
(L) Yeah, and they’re saying to focus on truth in order for changes to manifest in you that are positive. That is, “positive” can mean
acknowledging that something is negative because it is truth.
Q: (Galatea) Choose the seeds you wish to water.
(L) Is that basically what we’re talking about here?
A: Yes
Q: (Ark) But I would say that everybody needs a panoramic retro-mirror.
A: Yes.
Q: (L) because that stuff sneaks up behind you and it gets in your blind spot. OK, Atreides. Your question.
I tried to include surrounding questions in context to help with the meaning. I think nicklebleu is thinking very close to the meaning by stressing the importance of our awareness so we can make a choice about whether we see something as negative or positive.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
lara4unow said:
I remember a transcript where the C's said "When they are done programming us, they will come". I feel and see the programing increasing in speed in everything these days, (musiic, movies, TV et al). My thought is that the speed is a combination of my increasing awareness and their increasing "wishful thinking" that they are in control of the "end game" via the "Media".
I feel the dots are connecting everywhere. I feel lonely for human contact to endure the horror of it all. Thank you all for the only sanity I have found to go on. Your couage and vigilance is remarkable. I hope I can do for any other, if they ask for my guidance, a way for them to find their own truth through knowledge.
lara4unow,

I hope you don't mind if I try to provide the reference you mentioned for the "programming". I hope I found the right session. Here is what I think you might be referring to:

Session 9 August 1997

Q: Wonderful! So, if it is a Grey or Lizzie, you know they aren't the nice guys. But, if it is tall and blond,
you need to ask questions!
A: All is subjective when it comes to nice and not nice. Some on 2nd density would think of you as "not
nice," to say the least!!!
Q: That's for sure! Especially the roaches! Maybe we ought to get in touch with some of these good
guys...
A: When the "time" is right.
Q: Speaking of time - any further comments?
A: Just pay attention to the signs, please! It is not helpful to place yourself in a vacuum of awareness.
Q: I don't think I am in a vacuum of awareness. Now, this Jason Dunlap is printing a lot of stuff that
reminds me of the Hale Bopp incident. There is a lot being said about the sightings out in the South
West area. They are saying that this is the 'new' imminent invasion or mass landing. Can you comment
on this activity?
A: Prelude to the biggest "flap" ever.
Q: And where will this flap be located?
A: Earth.
Q: When is it going to begin?
A: Starting already.
Q: Is this biggest flap going to be just a flap, or is it going to be an invasion?
A: Not yet.
Q: Not an invasion?
A: Yes.
Q: So, it will just be inciting people to frenzies of speculation...
A: Invasion happens when programming is complete...
Q: What programming?
A: See Bible, "Lucid" book, Matrix Material, "Bringers of the Dawn," and many other sources, then cross
reference...
Q: Well, if something is fairly imminent, we are not gonna have time to do all the things you have
suggested that we do!
A: Yes you will, most likely.
Q: Well,
I am not familiar with the "Lucid" book so if someone could maybe fill us in more on how that relates I would appreciate that.

I know how difficult it is to use the search function to find what you try to remember so I use the Adobe advanced search on PDF files I have downloaded. I know some also use a Google search function but I don't care to include them in my world anymore than necessary.

I also see the programming in practically every aspect of our daily lives.
 

cubbex

The Living Force
Laura said:
Gurdjieff on magic:

"All that has been said up till now refers to real groups connected with real concrete work which in its turn is connected with what has been called the 'fourth way.' But there are many imitation ways, imitation groups, and imitation work. These are not even 'black magic.'

"Questions have often been asked at these lectures as to what is 'black magic' and I have replied that there is neither red, green, nor yellow magic. There is mechanics, that is, what 'happens,' and there is 'doing.' 'Doing' is magic and 'doing' can be only of one kind. There cannot be two kinds of 'doing.' But there can be a falsification, an imitation of the outward appearance of 'doing,' which cannot give any objective results but which can deceive naive people and produce in them faith, infatuation, enthusiasm, and even fanaticism.
Hah, I love this man. I agree on the part of all its mechanics. I have come to think of sourcery as having a few or a big bunch of knowledge on the workings of the 3 lower centers, and then applying this knowledge for different purposes. It appears here, that it takes a dark or evil connotation when this is behind everyone's back, in a manipulative way.

Like the tales of the egyptians who did rituals, who had nothing of special but being able to hypnotize women or people who did, these rituals.

Edit=Quote
 
Hi all, Thanks for the session and thread comments.

I think what the last few comments are stating, and what the C's said about music, is directly related to what G said about impressions being one of the 3 kinds of "food"...and the old saying, "you are what you eat"...FWIW.

Thanks, Dave
 

nicklebleu

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
goyacobol said:
nicklebleu & Divide By Zero,

I think I did find the reference to what the Cs were saying about "negative influences" and being on alert and aware. I wish the search engine here was better but I will do my best to help when I can.
goyacovol, that's the quote I had in mind - you are a star!
Thanks!
 
Top Bottom