Session 13 June 2015

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
nicklebleu said:
goyacobol said:
nicklebleu & Divide By Zero,

I think I did find the reference to what the Cs were saying about "negative influences" and being on alert and aware. I wish the search engine here was better but I will do my best to help when I can.
goyacovol, that's the quote I had in mind - you are a star!
Thanks!
Hey nickelblue, we are all "stars". We just need to realize we are all a part of this Grand Destiny and we have a part to play. If you didn't think of the right question there would be no need for and answer or a response. We are all just a part of maybe the "coolest" tribe I know of. If we just keep the "butterfly wings" flapping we will make progress I think. I bet you have within yourself an answer that I may need.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
focus.evans said:
Re: the sounds open the door....is this related to 432hr? http://returnto432.com
focus.evans,

It is an interesting topic I think. I notice that others are suggesting various other tunings like 528hz, 741hz and 852hz for different claimed health benefits. I think there could be something valid in the concept that the vibration rate could affect us in positive or negative ways.

Here is a forum thread on the subject: 432 Hz vs 440Hz

I am just not sure what to believe at this point. It might be a good question for the Cs.
 

patty2292

Jedi Master
Laura said:
Music is such a powerful medium. Powerful in that it accesses the imagination, the mind and the emotions and the body - all the lower centers, for sure. Thus it is no wonder that the PTB would seek to use this medium to their advantage since manipulation, by any means, is their middle name. If they go to such great lengths to control mainstream media news, TV programming, and movies, certainly the music industry is not immune to their manipulation and control. This should be self-evident by now, I would think.

Perhaps because music can access the emotions directly (and thus bypass the rational mind), dive into the sub-conscious mind, AND influence the body, I believe it provides a fertile ground for 4th way self-observation and study. One of the things Gurdjieff said early on as relayed by Ouspenski in “In Search of the Miraculous”, was that we are subject to a series of 'likes' and 'don't likes' by all the little I's: petty, subjective, egoistic tastes (my words). Certainly music is a vast playground for subjective likes and dislikes. Furthermore, it could be argued that what and who we like or dislike may even be reflective of our state of development, awareness and being.
(L) Does a person's taste in music reflect their state of awareness, development, and being?

A: Yes, more or less, though there is a range of preferences at various "levels".

Q: (L) Okay, next question:

Does a person's taste in music reflect their personal aim in life?
A: It can be strongly affected if only subconsciously.

Q: (L) Okay:


What is more important in determining a song’s value: the lyrics or the sound/mood/feeling?
A: The sound opens the door for the lyrics to enter for good or ill.

Q: (L) Does that mean that a song that sounds really horrible and mechanical and like somebody just beating on a pot or clanging on the hood of their car or something, and if that's the kind of music the person likes, but it also has good lyrics, then that's okay?

A: Not exactly. The sound can open gates at - or of - different levels and parts of the internal makeup.
Reading ISOTM this morning, and a segment instantly reminded me of this part of the session. It was describing the absorption of impressions as food for the organism. And I thought music was a very easy to see and good example of what was described, given that it was brought up within the session.

ISOTM p181:

We must however remember that, with every external impression, whether it takes the form of sound, or vision, or smell, we receive from outside a certain amount of energy a certain number of vibrations; this energy which enters the organism from outside is food. Moreover, as has been said before energy cannot be transmitted without matter, If an external impression brings external energy with it into the organism it means that external matter also enters which feeds the organism in the full meaning of the term.
I seen it as such; if someone is in a stressed mood, and wanted to listen to some music, they should choose carefully as to what will be listened to. As with each other situation at hand. So they will be most benefited by very relaxing and stress free music, from what i can imagine anyway :huh:.
Ive noticed this with myself on how music can influence and feed certain parts of me. When im driving, i have recently been listening to the more 'heavy' music and it gives me a sort of boy racer ego - leading me to drive faster and with more rage so to say. Creating tension all over my body. Yet when i put the classical on, i sit and flow with the traffic and let it all flow, not paying much direct attention to the music in particular... But attention to everything a little bit more. Also relieving tension and allowing me to relax and feel more comfort in myself.
 

BHelmet

Jedi Master
focus.evans said:
Re: the sounds open the door....is this related to 432hr? http://returnto432.com
I would venture to say that if a band/song is rocking double kick pedals; an uber distorted fast mute drop-D strum; the singer is screaming out the low guttural "I have just been knifed in the stomach" angst-rage sound and the tempo is the heart rate of a meth head, well, it is not going to matter what tuning frequency is used. That sound is going to open up a pathway to violence and snarling rage. And I also would opine that no amount of so-called uplifting lyrics are going to ameliorate that sound/pathway.

Same with most rap. No matter what the content of the lyrical message - if it has that "I am the so cool hot-xxxx bomb" narcissistic attitude and/or "I am so bleeping angry" tone - well, I get instantly irritated.
 
BHelmet said:
I would venture to say that if a band/song is rocking double kick pedals; an uber distorted fast mute drop-D strum; the singer is screaming out the low guttural "I have just been knifed in the stomach" angst-rage sound and the tempo is the heart rate of a meth head, well, it is not going to matter what tuning frequency is used. That sound is going to open up a pathway to violence and snarling rage. And I also would opine that no amount of so-called uplifting lyrics are going to ameliorate that sound/pathway.
Personally, I've found quite the opposite.
I've been a 'metal-head' for a good 30 yrs now, and offer a different perspective for you to ponder over. Frankly I've found that the metal community, fans, and concert goers have never been anything but friendly, polite and non-violent. Despite the perceived outside 'angst' which seems to come across from the music to those who don't like it, I can asure you that it positively relaxes me.

Maybe this is happening: maybe those who resonate to metal, find that the music itself cancels out the 'violent/angst' aspect; whereas for those who don't resonate to this music, when they listen to it, it merely activates the 'violent/angst' program.

So perhaps it depends on what frequency of music you enjoy - if you enjoy metal it may deactivate the same programs that are otherwise activated if you are a non-metal fan.

And that's the same with all musical types. Frankly, I find a lot of fairly quiet 'pop' style music almost unlistenable as it almosts make my body grate, like I'm having a tooth drilled at the dentist.

I don't think you can make blanket statements about any musical types creating violent people - I'm sure if you were to conduct a survey of many serial killers, and violent offenders, there would be just as many Elton John fans as Slipknot ones.

just something to consider.
 

BHelmet

Jedi Master
electrosonic said:
BHelmet said:
I would venture to say that if a band/song is rocking double kick pedals; an uber distorted fast mute drop-D strum; the singer is screaming out the low guttural "I have just been knifed in the stomach" angst-rage sound and the tempo is the heart rate of a meth head, well, it is not going to matter what tuning frequency is used. That sound is going to open up a pathway to violence and snarling rage. And I also would opine that no amount of so-called uplifting lyrics are going to ameliorate that sound/pathway.
Personally, I've found quite the opposite.
I've been a 'metal-head' for a good 30 yrs now, and offer a different perspective for you to ponder over. Frankly I've found that the metal community, fans, and concert goers have never been anything but friendly, polite and non-violent. Despite the perceived outside 'angst' which seems to come across from the music to those who don't like it, I can asure you that it positively relaxes me.

Maybe this is happening: maybe those who resonate to metal, find that the music itself cancels out the 'violent/angst' aspect; whereas for those who don't resonate to this music, when they listen to it, it merely activates the 'violent/angst' program.

So perhaps it depends on what frequency of music you enjoy - if you enjoy metal it may deactivate the same programs that are otherwise activated if you are a non-metal fan.

And that's the same with all musical types. Frankly, I find a lot of fairly quiet 'pop' style music almost unlistenable as it almosts make my body grate, like I'm having a tooth drilled at the dentist.

I don't think you can make blanket statements about any musical types creating violent people - I'm sure if you were to conduct a survey of many serial killers, and violent offenders, there would be just as many Elton John fans as Slipknot ones.

just something to consider.
Yeah, I hear you. There IS metal I like. And there is pop/elevator/lite music that can also induce a kitten-strangling sort of vibe. Yes, it depends on the individual and the moment and the situation. And I did not mean to be making a blanket statement about the fans of any particular type of music. I think there are gems scattered about in all genres of music. I also don't mean metal is going to make people do violent things. Certainly it is necessary to blow off steam from time to time, too, and metal can fill that bill too. I mainly meant to say that the sound and intent of a song is going to overrule the effects of any tuning frequency in regards to what opens a door or pathway into a persons psyche/mental/emotional programs.
 
BHelmet said:
electrosonic said:
BHelmet said:
I would venture to say that if a band/song is rocking double kick pedals; an uber distorted fast mute drop-D strum; the singer is screaming out the low guttural "I have just been knifed in the stomach" angst-rage sound and the tempo is the heart rate of a meth head, well, it is not going to matter what tuning frequency is used. That sound is going to open up a pathway to violence and snarling rage. And I also would opine that no amount of so-called uplifting lyrics are going to ameliorate that sound/pathway.
Personally, I've found quite the opposite.
I've been a 'metal-head' for a good 30 yrs now, and offer a different perspective for you to ponder over. Frankly I've found that the metal community, fans, and concert goers have never been anything but friendly, polite and non-violent. Despite the perceived outside 'angst' which seems to come across from the music to those who don't like it, I can asure you that it positively relaxes me.

Maybe this is happening: maybe those who resonate to metal, find that the music itself cancels out the 'violent/angst' aspect; whereas for those who don't resonate to this music, when they listen to it, it merely activates the 'violent/angst' program.

So perhaps it depends on what frequency of music you enjoy - if you enjoy metal it may deactivate the same programs that are otherwise activated if you are a non-metal fan.

And that's the same with all musical types. Frankly, I find a lot of fairly quiet 'pop' style music almost unlistenable as it almosts make my body grate, like I'm having a tooth drilled at the dentist.

I don't think you can make blanket statements about any musical types creating violent people - I'm sure if you were to conduct a survey of many serial killers, and violent offenders, there would be just as many Elton John fans as Slipknot ones.

just something to consider.
Yeah, I hear you. There IS metal I like. And there is pop/elevator/lite music that can also induce a kitten-strangling sort of vibe. Yes, it depends on the individual and the moment and the situation. And I did not mean to be making a blanket statement about the fans of any particular type of music. I think there are gems scattered about in all genres of music. I also don't mean metal is going to make people do violent things. Certainly it is necessary to blow off steam from time to time, too, and metal can fill that bill too. I mainly meant to say that the sound and intent of a song is going to overrule the effects of any tuning frequency in regards to what opens a door or pathway into a persons psyche/mental/emotional programs.
Fair enough.
I'll give you one thing though - there do seem to be types of chords (discordant ones? not sure of the terminology) that may lend themselves to affecting people in slightly different ways compared to the standard harmonic powerchords.
And there certainly do seem to be rather a lot of new types of metal around that use these slightly skewed chords in abundance. (New metal, deathcore etc)
Now, in those cases, yes the notes/chords may be acting on the recipient in ways that the harmonic ones wouldnt?
So it may be down to the chords & musical progressions used in music which affect a person more so than the vibratory sound/style?
Worth considering.
 
Also, don't be too hung up by 'downtuning' - all this means is that the guitar is tuned so that the bass string can reach a note lower than it was previously able - i.e from E to D for instance.
It doesn't mean to say that music played in D is any more likely to affect you adversely than music played in standard E ... its simply one note lower?
 

Approaching Infinity

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
goyacobol said:
I am not familiar with the "Lucid" book so if someone could maybe fill us in more on how that relates I would appreciate that.
Pretty sure it's Texe Marrs's Project LUCID.
 

BHelmet

Jedi Master
electrosonic said:
Also, don't be too hung up by 'downtuning' - all this means is that the guitar is tuned so that the bass string can reach a note lower than it was previously able - i.e from E to D for instance.
It doesn't mean to say that music played in D is any more likely to affect you adversely than music played in standard E ... its simply one note lower?
Ok, I am a musician - Drop D is very a very useful tuning - there is nothing that is inherently anything about it - I play all kinds of different tunings - I understand - the original question point was about doorways being related to the A=432 or 440 tuning frequency or A=whatever, since A = 432 slices up the intervals in whole numbers better than 440 does, and, hence 'feels' different. My drop-D reference was just for the sake of creating a hopefully comedic image which seems to have failed spectacularly. So be it.
 
BHelmet said:
electrosonic said:
Also, don't be too hung up by 'downtuning' - all this means is that the guitar is tuned so that the bass string can reach a note lower than it was previously able - i.e from E to D for instance.
It doesn't mean to say that music played in D is any more likely to affect you adversely than music played in standard E ... its simply one note lower?
Ok, I am a musician - Drop D is very a very useful tuning - there is nothing that is inherently anything about it - I play all kinds of different tunings - I understand - the original question point was about doorways being related to the A=432 or 440 tuning frequency or A=whatever, since A = 432 slices up the intervals in whole numbers better than 440 does, and, hence 'feels' different. My drop-D reference was just for the sake of creating a hopefully comedic image which seems to have failed spectacularly. So be it.
Nah, don't worry about it, i get it.
 

BHelmet

Jedi Master
electrosonic said:
BHelmet said:
electrosonic said:
BHelmet said:
I would venture to say that if a band/song is rocking double kick pedals; an uber distorted fast mute drop-D strum; the singer is screaming out the low guttural "I have just been knifed in the stomach" angst-rage sound and the tempo is the heart rate of a meth head, well, it is not going to matter what tuning frequency is used. That sound is going to open up a pathway to violence and snarling rage. And I also would opine that no amount of so-called uplifting lyrics are going to ameliorate that sound/pathway.
Personally, I've found quite the opposite.
I've been a 'metal-head' for a good 30 yrs now, and offer a different perspective for you to ponder over. Frankly I've found that the metal community, fans, and concert goers have never been anything but friendly, polite and non-violent. Despite the perceived outside 'angst' which seems to come across from the music to those who don't like it, I can asure you that it positively relaxes me.

Maybe this is happening: maybe those who resonate to metal, find that the music itself cancels out the 'violent/angst' aspect; whereas for those who don't resonate to this music, when they listen to it, it merely activates the 'violent/angst' program.

So perhaps it depends on what frequency of music you enjoy - if you enjoy metal it may deactivate the same programs that are otherwise activated if you are a non-metal fan.

And that's the same with all musical types. Frankly, I find a lot of fairly quiet 'pop' style music almost unlistenable as it almosts make my body grate, like I'm having a tooth drilled at the dentist.

I don't think you can make blanket statements about any musical types creating violent people - I'm sure if you were to conduct a survey of many serial killers, and violent offenders, there would be just as many Elton John fans as Slipknot ones.

just something to consider.
Yeah, I hear you. There IS metal I like. And there is pop/elevator/lite music that can also induce a kitten-strangling sort of vibe. Yes, it depends on the individual and the moment and the situation. And I did not mean to be making a blanket statement about the fans of any particular type of music. I think there are gems scattered about in all genres of music. I also don't mean metal is going to make people do violent things. Certainly it is necessary to blow off steam from time to time, too, and metal can fill that bill too. I mainly meant to say that the sound and intent of a song is going to overrule the effects of any tuning frequency in regards to what opens a door or pathway into a persons psyche/mental/emotional programs.
Fair enough.
I'll give you one thing though - there do seem to be types of chords (discordant ones? not sure of the terminology) that may lend themselves to affecting people in slightly different ways compared to the standard harmonic powerchords.
And there certainly do seem to be rather a lot of new types of metal around that use these slightly skewed chords in abundance. (New metal, deathcore etc)
Now, in those cases, yes the notes/chords may be acting on the recipient in ways that the harmonic ones wouldnt?
So it may be down to the chords & musical progressions used in music which affect a person more so than the vibratory sound/style?
Worth considering.
I totally agree. Just sit at a piano or any instrument really and play different triads - the whole range of emotions. I tend to think it is a combination of all the factors combined. Like stew or soup - all the ingredients add up to a unique dish: sometimes delicious and sometimes you want to spit it out.
 

BHelmet

Jedi Master
electrosonic said:
BHelmet said:
electrosonic said:
Also, don't be too hung up by 'downtuning' - all this means is that the guitar is tuned so that the bass string can reach a note lower than it was previously able - i.e from E to D for instance.
It doesn't mean to say that music played in D is any more likely to affect you adversely than music played in standard E ... its simply one note lower?
Ok, I am a musician - Drop D is very a very useful tuning - there is nothing that is inherently anything about it - I play all kinds of different tunings - I understand - the original question point was about doorways being related to the A=432 or 440 tuning frequency or A=whatever, since A = 432 slices up the intervals in whole numbers better than 440 does, and, hence 'feels' different. My drop-D reference was just for the sake of creating a hopefully comedic image which seems to have failed spectacularly. So be it.
Nah, don't worry about it, i get it.
It's cool. Hey, there are some hilarious videos on Youtube where a guy, Andy Rehfeldt, takes songs and turns them inside out, eg, he turns Louis Armstrong Wonderful World into a metal song; Metallica Enter Sandman into a bossa nova; Dinsey Radio version of Slipknot etc. Really a trip of cognitive dissonance but a laugh riot at the same time. A good listening/brain exercise. Worth a check.

Which brings up another point. Do you ever hit the mute button during the commercials? And notice how much more you 'see'...all the body language messages and facial gestures jumping out? (since the sound pathway access initiator has been 'turned off')
 
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