Session 13 September 2009

Alana

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
go2 said:
Why would the soul need hope?

To me it seems that Hope is food for the soul, as is Faith, Love and Truth. SAO and Perceval among others describe it pretty well:

SAO said:
This meaning of hope seems to be the same as what the C's meant by "faith" when they refer to "faith in terms of our interaction with the creation". Those with no hope have no faith in themselves or the universe, they impose their own assumptions and beliefs on the universe and place their faith and hope in those false beliefs, which is really a twisted "ponerized" definition of faith and hope.

Perceval said:
For me, something close to real hope is both personal and macrocosmic at the the same time, I have hope in the "creative side of the universe" that it exists, and that hope is based, to a large extent, on what is happening here and all the work Laura and Ark and all of us on the forum here are doing. I have hope in the power of our collective hope that there is a place, somewhere, for those who reject lies and aspire to Truth in all things.

I too read Hope here as amounting to Faith. And as i am thinking about Hope, Faith, Truth, i am reminded of St Paul's words:

Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror;
then we shall see face to face.
Now I know in part;
then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
And now these three remain: Faith, Hope and Love.
But the greatest of these is Love

These words might point to the fact that once all our illusions about our reality and ourselves are stripped away by our conscious efforts, Faith, Hope and Love are what will remain. And that last phrase might indicate that Love (for one another, for truth, creativity, being and life) is the igniting force behind true Hope and Faith.

Keit mentions Darkness over Tibet, a book that I read every night for a week last February, thinking that it will be about interesting travels of a Seeker of bygone times, and ended up in agony unable to sleep fearing for my soul and its state of existence!

*** BOOK SPOILER ALERT!!!!***​

In the book, Illion (the writer) provides a great example on how NOT to fall prey to psychopathic manipulations that will inevitably render us unable to make the life/soul choice. For those who read it, you remember the scene where Illion was to meet the prince and he was made to wear a black silk robe beforehand as was the tradition? Despite the shocks and protests he caused, Illion still refused to wear the robe because he found the whole idea ridiculous and wasn't going to succumb to it, it was against his values! Then there was the point about all residents of the underground city eating ONLY at the restaurant-like place and Illion again refused to follow this rule because it didn’t make sense to him, and because he felt that the food he had there the first time made him feel ill! And that’s a great lesson to keep in mind, everyday of our lives. Though the things Illion wholeheartedly refused seem small and insignificant to pay too much attention to at first sight, later in the book it becomes evident how crucial it was to refuse them for the survival of his soul! Also of great important was how aware he was of the state of his body, thoughts and emotions that he was able to spot that something was changing in him when in that city.

How many times do we accept/allow/consent to situations and things to take place because we feel we have to, because everybody else does it, because it’s in the rules, but nonetheless can create a precedent which opens the way for us to accept/allow/consent to greater pathological situations and belief systems? I know i have :(

But i have Hope/Faith that this can change, both with my individual efforts and our collective efforts. We are given the tools ;D I am too looking forward to those videos - i am sure that Laura, you will shine through! :thup:

Thank you for giving us Hope!
 

gaman

Jedi Master
Laura said:
<snip>
Q: (L) So there are souls that are being twisted and deformed to the point where they will... I mean, a lot of these people think that they will be going to heaven because they're imposing their god's will on other people, and they think that whatever they have to do to bring in the rule of their distorted version of Jesus Christ on Earth or whatever - ya know, these fundies - that basically they themselves are putting themselves in the position of being soul smashed because they are completely going against not only the teachings of Christ, but also against their own natures. I think many of them really mean well, but they have been so gradually and so incrementally twisted by pathological individuals in positions of power and in high positions in churches, and pathological individuals that create doctrines and theologies that are twisted, that they are essentially agreeing to the sale of their own souls to the devil. (Joe) I wonder if it extends to people who aren't directly involved in it, but are just ordinary members of the population whose minds are so twisted that in their own minds they sanction it or they agree with it. Even when they're faced with the facts, they're not being lied to so much, but they realize the whole thing about torture and the CIA and torture camps...

A: Silence in the face of "evil" is equal to participation unless there is a good reason for the silence that serves a higher goal.
<snip>
The C's answer here is a topic where I feel I'm floundering in uncertainty to a degree regarding my actions and reactions in discussions with friends. My view and feelings on war and torture now are almost diametrically opposed to what they were a year ago and now I just see horror and pain at the expense of power games of those in control.

Now when I have friends who believe the party line speak in support of such activities I strongly want to say something to point out the inhumanity and suffering, but I don't do so because of external considering. I should instead say I don't do so many times, but sometimes I do and try to get them to look at what it would be like to be on the receiving end.

I have doubts about this approach of external considering because they have no exposure (as far as I know) to any information that would cause them to question and I want to provide some exposure but not thrust my views on them.

I think I flounder because I'm not based in solid deep understanding in the principles of correct behavior in the work and instead sometimes I just try to follow the rules verbatim when I can't discern.

Any thoughts on what might be good behavior in these circumstances?
 

Alana

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
gaman said:
I think I flounder because I'm not based in solid deep understanding in the principles of correct behavior in the work and instead sometimes I just try to follow the rules verbatim when I can't discern.

Any thoughts on what might be good behavior in these circumstances?

Perhaps you can say that you read so and so about a particular subject on sott, or in a book, and direct them to the source? From then on it's up to them to go there and confront the new evidence.

fwiw.
 

c.a.

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Once again i say thank you ever so much ( hope aim not wearing this out ) to what have been seeing in the u.s. and to thank Laura, Ark , and the group and the C's for there reception and grooving of channel sto 6............ :cool2:................ aim a bit at awe with the very thought of these questions and the vast knowledge that they bring up with the right recipe for the right quetions ............... the activity's that i am witnessing and experiencing of the denail of many, many, people to grasps whats relley happening under there noses and why they think everthing is correct ....... :zzz:.......like the mouse and there infernal mouse traps the mouse can smell the cheese but does not posses the awareness to what Triping of it represents and how it will change the its life perhaps and possibly for ever...............the fence is very active for those whom dont live in the U.S. and it-is working at full capacity at the times i have scened it effects i would copare it to the sound of finger nails on chalk broad running against the surface excerpt there is no sound only that reaction of what that sound frequency feels like and how it make one feel like on "edge" ......... :scared:........bravo team team C's your are all the best, thanks again !
 

mamadrama

The Living Force
I've just begun reading Jacob Needleman's book Lost Christianity. In one passage Needleman asks Anthony Bloom the Metropolitan of Western Europe, the Russian Orthodox equivalent of archbishop, "What is prayer?" His response seems to correspond to our experiences with the meditation and prayer.

Needleman said:
In the state of prayer one is vulnerable." He emphasized the last word and then waited until he was sure I had not taken it in an ordinary way.

"In prayer, one is vulnerable, not enthusiastic. And then these rituals have such force. They hit you like a locomotive. You must not be enthusiastic, nor rejecting - but only open. This is the whole aim of asceticism: to become open."
 

Approaching Infinity

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
NOTE: The soul-smashing discussion has been split off into this topic:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=13699.0

So if you're looking for a post to reply to, or want to comment, please do so there. Thanks!
 

go2

Dagobah Resident
go2 said:
Why would the soul need hope?

St Paul said:
Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror;
then we shall see face to face.
Now I know in part;
then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
And now these three remain: Faith, Hope and Love.
But the greatest of these is Love

Smaragde said:
These words might point to the fact that once all our illusions about our reality and ourselves are stripped away by our conscious efforts, Faith, Hope and Love are what will remain. And that last phrase might indicate that Love (for one another, for truth, creativity, being and life) is the igniting force behind true Hope and Faith.

Thank you…Smaragde. I woke in the middle of the night and the question was gone. I saw that hope is an attribute of the soul and the question was meaningless. The soul is Faith, Hope, and Love….I had never lost it, it was only hidden from me in my despair. Now I know that I have gone on, helped by others who saw what I could not…the Faith, Hope, and Love waiting to be embraced.

Approaching Infinity said:
Some people have more emotional sensitivity than others, and yes, this is essential for spiritual growth. As Gurdjieff says, "spiritual" growth is growth of Being, of essence, and essence is emotional in nature.

But there IS hope. Simply knowing of the possibilities is the first step and provides protection. For example, if I ever experience a cleansing of the type Laura did (I haven't!), I'll know what to expect, and hopefully have the presence of mind to tell myself to hold on, that it will pass. All the knowledge we have gained over the years provides awareness of possibilities. And not only do we have warnings of danger, we know that there IS another way. And that's what we're here to find and MAKE real.

Hi Approaching Infinity, thank you for your comments. Tonight, I understand Hope is experienced by the Soul through its higher emotional and higher intellectual eyes. Hope is only a word to the lower intellect, and of course the self of Personality has no hope, it must die with its illusions, that the Soul may climb the ascending path.. Perhaps, Laura’s cleansing was the archetypal Death of the Personality, and the Rebirth of Hope, Faith, and Love of the Soul.

The language of the tradition juxtaposed to the language of psychology has helped me see the reality behind the illusions.
 

SeekinTruth

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Many, many thanks for this session. So much to ponder, as always. I'm so glad the transcripts are being published again, after several years of not publishing them. It seems the amount of information being given is accelerating.

Like everyone else, I'm really looking forward to the CDs and Videos.

(Allen) I've been thinking of all those people in the US. And the thought I kept getting was the reason they give in is because they can't see anything else. They can't see that there is any hope to ever not be smashed into primal matter. And they could burst this frequency fence just with hope. It's like the guy in the movie who is at the end of his rope, ragged, torn apart to shreds, and he hasn't made it to his goal yet. And then that one thing happens to give him a little bit of hope, to make him realize, "There it is!" And then suddenly he can do it.

(Keit) So this is what we have to do, find what is of hope. Continue being the lighthouse. Because if you live in a hopeless environment, you either give up and kill yourself, or you give up in the sense that you kill your own soul. What's the only way you can live in a soulless environment? Lose your soul.

(C**) I think they were saying that the music or Laura's voice can like give them strength or counter the negative frequencies that take away hope.

(L) The illusion is that there is no hope. And once you get rid of the illusion that there is no hope, and you can begin to see what you really can do, then... Maybe listening to singing, or doing meditation... [bottle falls over]

(Ark) It's a confirmation!

(L) Maybe that's just like if you're on a long journey and somebody has gotten so exhausted that they can't keep going. And somebody else says, "Here, lean on me, and I'll help you walk until you've rested a little bit. And then you can continue on your own." So, you do that.

(Allen) I keep thinking of this frequency fence, and what's it fencing out? It's fencing out the idea that they could even hear... I think most of us have probably had that experience where we kind of have some communication of channeling ourselves in the future - getting those ideas, those things. I had things that seemed like that when I was a kid. And they basically put a bubble where it's like, "No, you can't have any of that!" And these recordings could be a way to send these people the frequencies they're missing that will bring their souls back to life. This way, we can put it on a disc and get it through the fence. Ya know, "I listened to this, I feel better, I feel like myself again."

It definitely seems like Transmarginal Inhibition and other techniques developed over the many years is being used to break even stronger people who can resist more than the average person all the pressures to be "turned." All of this is forcing people to choose to align with entropy and lose what little receivership capability we may have to align with and manifest creativity. Hope is VERY important. And this group gives hope - has been giving hope for so many years. And now it's being taken to another level.

The thing about this group is that you give an alternative to the toxic culture, the toxic environment that we are forced to live in. You give another way of being by example and inspiration. All of which leads to hope. And the rest is our own efforts and hard work to join the group in the overall aim.

All of these audio and video projects in the pipeline are like antidotes, restoring our receivership potential to be activated as we progress in the Work.

Also Keit's insights were very helpful. For the last few months, I've been thinking about how narcissistic family dynamics and other pathological dynamics perpetuate the trap and human suffering from generation to generation. And all this leads to waves of pathological material flooding humans from every direction all our lives, from the moment we're born. It's not just the extreme cases of pathology, like those that are ruthless and rise to power, but all the narcissistically wounded (even those that do not eventually become full blown narcissists) and other less extreme cases that are touched by pathology. Even besides what the PTB are actively doing to turn everything pathological, we are born into an environment that in most cases opens us up to accept more pathological material than we otherwise would. And being wounded, we must first acknowledge, then heal this wound, which is very difficult and painful. It requires more conscious suffering so we can be freed from mechanical suffering. But most people will just suffer mechanically and never get on a path to healing, contaminating themselves with more and more pathological material and accepting more and more of it.

All of this ongoing process - which is not only transgenerational but also transincarnational - distorts and twists and sets up for the downward spiral by a sort of forced resonance.
 
hello everybody

I Found in the New york times a week ago an article with title " Dick Cheney' version. It is in the context that the Obama administration will investigate into the torture methodes, illegal secret detention.... in the periode Cheney-Bush :O . Cheney was especially vexed that the Obama administration was beginning an investigation.
(quote) text to be quoted {/ quote}
In Mr Cheney's view, it is not just those who followed orders who should be sheltered from accountability. He said , he also had no problem with those who disobeyed their orders and exceedded the guidelines.
Further Mr Cheney claims that waterboarding and other practices widely considered to be torture or abuse "were absolutly essential " in stopping another terrorist attack on the United States after sept 11 ,2001

Getting at the truth is not going to be easy . The CIA destroyed evidence (videotapes of interrogations and is refusing to release its records of the questioning of the prisonners. Americans need much more than glimpses of the truth.

I have taken few sentences from the article to illustrate the difficulty for the people to find the truth over the torture which
seemed to be so important for the preservetion of our soul
sylvie
 

LQB

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Perceval said:
I suppose the question is what do you base your hope on? Something transient and illusory, or something real? Do we hope that the government will save us? Can we hope that anybody or thing will save us or the planet from sliding down the slope to oblivion? Can we have hope that the Truth will prevail? That it is not possible to completely stamp out the light of truth on earth or in the universe? For me, something close to real hope is both personal and macrocosmic at the the same time, I have hope in the "creative side of the universe" that it exists, and that hope is based, to a large extent, on what is happening here and all the work Laura and Ark and all of us on the forum here are doing. I have hope in the power of our collective hope that there is a place, somewhere, for those who reject lies and aspire to Truth in all things.

[quote author=SAO]
This meaning of hope seems to be the same as what the C's meant by "faith" when they refer to "faith in terms of our interaction with the creation". Those with no hope have no faith in themselves or the universe, they impose their own assumptions and beliefs on the universe and place their faith and hope in those false beliefs, which is really a twisted "ponerized" definition of faith and hope.
[/quote]

[quote author=Perceval]
For me, something close to real hope is both personal and macrocosmic at the the same time, I have hope in the "creative side of the universe" that it exists, and that hope is based, to a large extent, on what is happening here and all the work Laura and Ark and all of us on the forum here are doing. I have hope in the power of our collective hope that there is a place, somewhere, for those who reject lies and aspire to Truth in all things.
[/quote]

[quote author=Smaragde]
These words might point to the fact that once all our illusions about our reality and ourselves are stripped away by our conscious efforts, Faith, Hope and Love are what will remain. And that last phrase might indicate that Love (for one another, for truth, creativity, being and life) is the igniting force behind true Hope and Faith.
[/quote]

Said so well by so many (not just those above). In my own words, reflecting what has been said, faith, hope, and trust, when stripped of the "ponerized" definitions, have foundation in the Truth. To me, these things sprout from Truth in Being and all truths that proceed at various levels. Contrast this with the lies of non-being (soul smashing). The most basic Truth lies in our Being (Awareness). To accept a position on the conveyor belt to non-being is to accept lies and base one's existence on the mechanical habitual support of those lies (reflecting an "unconsciousness" that runs counter to your Being). In this sense, the choice is made in favor of the lie - in denial of the most basic self-evident Truth. And the "ponerized" definitions of these terms are used to hide the lies that keep the conveyor belt full. SOTT, the forum, and all the members illuminate paths off the conveyor belt for all of us, using the Truth to return to true Being/Awareness and take back what is rightfully ours through choice and the destruction of mechanical programs based on lies and alignment with the Truth.

Another way of saying what has already been said.
 

Mona

Jedi Master
Thank you, Laura, and all the participants in the last session with C's. The information has helped me to uplift my soul a little more, maybe tomorrow, it will be uplifted even more so. I have once again met an individual with narcisistic tendencies in my life this past year and a half, this time at a workplace. In fact, this individual was my manager who specifically targeted me to drain my energy of the little dignity I had left working with him for a year and a half. He used extreme profanity, and agressive behavior in front of the rest of the staff to degrade me numerous times; I felt so drained that I had no spare energy for myself at the end of the day. I finally found the courage to complain to the chief of the operation at the company over a week ago, who has witnessed this individual's aggressive behavior on many occassions before, and four days later the company terminated my employment. They probably saw me as a potential threat to the survival of the company, as I did voice my concern that the company has known about the individual's aggressive outbursts but did nothing about it because of the close relationship that he had with the owner of the compnay.

So, for the past four days I have been trying to rescue my soul from this deep dark hole that I have falled into, while trying to find ways to uplift myself somehow as I kind of felt that there was no hope at the end of the tunnel. I have encountered quite a lot of unfairness in my personal life and the workplace as well, it kind of seems that i am pushed to these situations so that I get drained even more so. Many times, I felt that death was welcome more in my life than life.

Even though I have not participated much in this forum, I have kept myself busy reading Laura's books. Actually, I have a library of all the books that Laura has written, coutesy of the Red Pill Press bookstore located here in Alberta, Canada. I must say though, with regret and embarassment, that even though I have been trying to acquire the knowledge that C's have been communicating to Laura for many years now, I am still struggling in using effectively this knowledge, in a positive way as a protection, in circumstance such as the one I described above. I have read so many books on psychopathy, but I still, to this day, find myself face to face with narcisists manipulating me and draining me of my energy, while I am being fully conscious of their intentions, and on top of that, knowing that the environment is not safe for me to stay in. I think that I might have some kind of a genetic disorder that keeps me in those circumstance. Or I must be a very juvenile soul who will never get it no matter what it tries to learn.

But, I am very grateful to Laura and all of you, for all the great information that you have provided us all in these challenging times. I am thankful even to myself that I came across Laura's books just by chance so many years ago, when I think about it, it was like finding a needle containing a forbidden knowledge in a haystack. Thank you so much.
 

henry

The Living Force
Mona said:
Even though I have not participated much in this forum, I have kept myself busy reading Laura's books. Actually, I have a library of all the books that Laura has written, coutesy of the Red Pill Press bookstore located here in Alberta, Canada. I must say though, with regret and embarassment, that even though I have been trying to acquire the knowledge that C's have been communicating to Laura for many years now, I am still struggling in using effectively this knowledge, in a positive way as a protection, in circumstance such as the one I described above.

Hi Mona,

It is good that you can finally talk about the situation here. I know what you must be going through, the different emotions you must be processing after having been dealt with so unfairly. If you are not already doing the EE breathing exercises, they will certainly help you. There is a long thread on them here, and the video and audio files can be downloaded here.

When you are ready, you'll have to take stock of what happened and what you learned from it in order to protect yourself in the future.

Perhaps part of the answer lies in the passage above. You say that for a year and one half you were trying to deal with this individual. There are many members of the forum who have had dealings with psychopaths and other pathologicals at their workplace. It is very difficult to face these situations alone. When the emotions are running high, it is difficult to think and reason clearly. Pathological people can have a direct affect on your emotions and your ability to think.

One of the purposes of the forum is to help each other deal with these individuals based on our knowledge and experience. We can only get so much from reading books. If you read through the threads in the Psychopaths at Home, Work and in the Garden, you'll find other cases and see the advice that was given.

It's good you are posting about this experience. I hope you'll post more.
 

Breton

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Mona said:
...the past four days I have been trying to rescue my soul from this deep dark hole that I have falled into, while trying to find ways to uplift myself somehow as I kind of felt that there was no hope at the end of the tunnel....
... I think that I might have some kind of a genetic disorder that keeps me in those circumstance. Or I must be a very juvenile soul who will never get it no matter what it tries to learn...

Hi Mona!

I am still pretty new at the Work myself, but I believe I am sincerely TRYING to do it.

Mona said:
I must say though, with regret and embarassment, that even though I have been trying to acquire the knowledge that C's have been communicating to Laura for many years now, I am still struggling in using effectively this knowledge...

If it is any comfort, I also am struggling. At the present moment in my development, I think that I am trying to APPLY the knowledge and it is very difficult. It seems to be a big leap to make from intellectually getting a handle on information then to putting it into proper use. The C's said that knowledge protects, but only if it is applied. Or something like that.

One thing I am not doing well in the Work yet, and I suspect that you are in the same situation, is getting help from others in the Work. I have not been getting others in the Work to be an objective mirror to help me see my blind spots. I have been able to discuss all these topics with someone I trust, but he is even more of a newbie than I am.

I would like you to know you are not alone.

Also, even though you probably have this idea already, maybe it is ok for me to suggest that you try to think of your situation as not something horrible but rather as something you must experience for what your soul needs.

I really feel that life is just lessons. If so, then it must mean that this hole, this dark tunnel that you are in, is actually a precious gift! It has not happened by accident and it is there for you to use! To learn and to grow! Anyways, why not give that thought a try instead of choosing a disempowering thought like the one that you suggested, which was maybe a "genetic disorder" or "juvenile soul" is causing you to be too often in these circumstances.

Ok, I was trying to be encouraging, did it work?

It is good to see your post. Hang in there.

_Breton_
[I am just someone with a single aim: to move little by little towards objective Truth. In order to do this, it seems I need to know my machine, clean it, and use each and every moment of life as a lesson towards this aim. I hope that with more objective truth, with more true knowledge, and with more application of this knowledge, with as little anticipation for the future outcome as possible, then the next step in the journey becomes more clear. Perhaps with some knowledge of objective truth, I can even help someone else, and one day even be able to participate in an STO environment.]
 
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