Session 16 August 2014

[Windmill knight]

[...]

(L) Oooh. So in other words, to achieve cosmic consciousness, i.e. true spiritual advancement, you have to expand your field of vision to be very wide?

A: Exactly. Those who suggest that you must look only within live in a singular bubble.

[...]

What happened with "know thyself'? Doesn't charity start at home? This is confusing.

And of course many thanks for the session transcript. It is really appreciated.

Hi ROEL, consider this from another recent session:

Q: (L) Can anybody think of another question to get me where I want to go here? (shellycheval) As individuals, what's the single most important thing we should do to Do, and to not try, but to actually take actions? What can we do to motivate ourselves as individuals? Is there something we can say or do...?

A: Service to others. Notice that the people with the most problems that always talk only about themselves and their troubles, are the ones who do and give the least. They do not have confidence in the universal law of LIFE: Get things moving and you create a vacuum in your life into which energy can flow.

Q: (L) So, basically what you're saying is that people should think of it as a kind of a law that when you... maybe like the old biblical expression: "Cast your bread on the waters, and after many days, it will return to you" sort of thing? Just do it, and keep doing it without anticipation?

A: Absolutely! And it is true and works. Just notice people who do and give a lot: Are they spending time focused on the self? No!

Q: (L) Yeah, but everybody's got wounds and issues and all that kind of thing to work on. I mean...

A: [letters come very quickly] Balance! A portion of a day can be spent on reflection, but not too much. This is the Wetiko Virus: obsession with the self and subjective personal issues. The next time you feel yourself slipping into despair, just tell others how you are feeling and think of something you can do for another to prevent them from suffering the same feelings. [letters come more slowly now:] Thus you will witness the birth of true empathy.

They are not saying that you should not look within, but that you should not obsess about it and balance it with service to others. Notice how they said it in the last session: "Those who suggest that you must look only within live in a singular bubble." "Only" being the key word here.

 

[goyacobol]

Many thanks to all for this session!

Session Date: August 16th 2014

(Pierre) You identify the frequency, or he personality state that it is the attractor...
(L) Yeah, and that's the useful thing. I think that's why they said that if you need SRT, you need to find
the parameters.
(Perceval) It's almost like by definition, if you have an attachment, then you also have an issue that
needs to be worked on. Just getting rid of the attachment doesn't get rid of the issue. Say you were
being morose or moody or whatever, and then some attachment comes along. Just because the
attachment goes away, doesn't mean the issue is gone. You already had the issue that drew in the
attachment in the first place. So, just getting rid of the attachment doesn't fix the issue. You also have
to continue to work on yourself.
Q: (L) What is the best way to Work on being aware? I mean, we talked about this last time, didn't we?
And what did they say last time? Awareness is the key.
(Pierre) Seeing the world as it is.
(L) Consciously collecting truth and networking with others about it.
(Perceval) They said something about when you see someone else feeling bad about themselves or
whatever, do something to lift them up. It's associated with empathy as well: empathy for others.
Awakening the emotional center.

I had been thinking about the word "parameters" a few days before reading this session. I was applying it to interactions with the people around me and thinking that they don't seem to have the "parameters" to understand many of the forum concepts and I probably won't "get through" to them until their "parameters" expand as mine had to expand.

I have also considered the possibility that I may have attachments and maybe others I deal with might as well. The guidelines in this session seem to make it much more clear how we should think about "parameters" and continue the Work. The idea that Perceval mentioned with having "empathy" and awakening the emotional center resonates with me too.

The focus it seems is on the Work for all of us.

 

[obyvatel]

[quote author=ROEL]
What happened with "know thyself'? Doesn't charity start at home? This is confusing.
[/quote]

From the threads and books discussed in the cognitive science and psychology section, it should be pretty clear that we cannot know ourselves objectively through introspection alone. So we need help from others. In order to get this help from others, we need to connect with others. Connection is a two way street - so for sustained meaningful connection, asking and giving help - or as Gurdjieff said "one hand washes the other" - is logical and rational.

In essence, practical and useful work on oneself goes hand in hand with connection with others.

 

[Windmill knight]

So the implication is that the psychopaths must be eradicated. And based on the sessions recently regarding Caesar, we know that justified killing does not make a person bad, evil, or STS. So ultimately the psychopaths must be killed and we would not be in the wrong for doing it, as it is necessary. Am I understanding this correctly?

How would you do that realistically? First, you would need to educate the entire population about psychopathy and how to detect it, and normal people would need to be at the top. Without this, it wouldn't work at all because it would not take any time for the best psychos to start twisting eradication against anyone they didn't like. Extermination and turning people against others is after all part of their game, so it is unlikely that they would be beaten at it.

Even if everyone had the education, you couldn't be sure that someone in particular was doing it due to internal wounding or ponerization, or because he is a genetic psychopath, so you would risk killing non-psychopaths. Plus, some psychos can fool even the highly educated.

Also - assuming that normal people were in charge - are we sure that some or most psychos could not be assigned some place in society that would make them mostly harmless?

But more to the point: if you managed to educate most people on the topic of psychopathy, then they would stop electing them for positions of authority, they would stop falling for their cons and schemes, and would share info with others about who they should be careful with. At that point psychos would either find a way to live without mischief, they would end in jail, or they would be excluded from society one way or another, effectively neutralizing them and becoming a 'dormant virus'.

The point is that, while killing may be an option in some circumstances and for the right reasons, knowledge is the cure to the virus of psychopathy. I don't think extermination has been implied.

 

[Deleted member 4320]

[quote author=ROEL]
What happened with "know thyself'? Doesn't charity start at home? This is confusing.

From the threads and books discussed in the cognitive science and psychology section, it should be pretty clear that we cannot know ourselves objectively through introspection alone. So we need help from others. In order to get this help from others, we need to connect with others. Connection is a two way street - so for sustained meaningful connection, asking and giving help - or as Gurdjieff said "one hand washes the other" - is logical and rational.

In essence, practical and useful work on oneself goes hand in hand with connection with others.
[/quote]

And, I would say, if you perceive self without focusing at the same time on the environment and cosmos, it's like perception in the vacuum, there is no point of reference.

Also, the cosmos interacts with us in the way that we are aware only to some extend, so finding the truth about the universe allow discover our unknown functions.

G's told once time that "Knowing thyself" can be only the bigger aim, the man machine can't perceive oneself and is very, very far to do that. I think, It's okay to have in mind principle "know thyself", but it's more complex and must mean more than just some daily activity.

 

[Shared Joy]

Session Date: August 16th 2014

(Perceval) I think part of the problem with SRT is that it's very appealing to people who decide that maybe all of their issues are attachments, and all it takes is a couple of phone calls to get rid of it and essentially deal with all of the issues. In other words, supplanting the idea of Work on the self with a couple of phone calls, and then “I'm clean! I'm done!” That's the draw of this kind of SRT work; it's a phone call. How easy is that? Someone else does it for you, supposedly.

(L) I think it's a useful thing IF somebody is involved in the Work, and IF they continue working and they apply the discipline that is necessary before, during, and after to change their frequency. And that's what's important about asking the attached entity “when did you come? What was I doing? How was I vulnerable?” To get that kind of information...

Thank you for sharing this session. As the above quote shows, one cannot make sudden changes to endure, as something inside of us will not know what to do with the liberty gained. Most people are so used to the roles played by little " I's" or attachments that they would gravitate back to those habits or circumstances they were used to.

Let me give you s simple example, not so drastic as a SRT, but quite telling:

One of my lady-friends got a chiropractor fixed her spine. She had a bad posture with her back humped, the pelvis slightly lifted . In the psychological literature this posture is associated to the masochist character structure.
Ok, she got the spinal bone manipulated (in one session, mind you !) and showed up very proud about her new looks. Well, it was impressive, of course it was!

I warned her, that such a rush might not be a very good idea . Well, after a few days, due to the upright posture, all her tension got stuck in her lumbar region (which had been slightly curved so far so it allowed the flow of tension along the back of her legs). She ended up with a terrible back pain, as she couldn't manage to discharge the tension according to her personality trait, which shaped her previous posture.

Therefore, healing must be carried out on multiple levels, with good care given to all aspects, so that they would backup each other, instead of reverting to old, familiar but useless, even harmful habits.

Joy

 

[Martina]

Thank you for everything.

 

[Lizziespreparetogovegan]

[...]

(L) Oooh. So in other words, to achieve cosmic consciousness, i.e. true spiritual advancement, you have to expand your field of vision to be very wide?

A: Exactly. Those who suggest that you must look only within live in a singular bubble.

[...]

What happened with "know thyself'? Doesn't charity start at home? This is confusing.

And of course many thanks for the session transcript. It is really appreciated.

I read this as relating to the second of the three particular areas of focus that were advised:

Q: (L) Okay, is there any final bit of advice, or any last thing to say before we shut down for the night?

A: Just work daily at becoming more aware on three levels
1. Body and immediate environment,
2. Wider world affairs,
3. Cosmos and spirit.

ie That true spirituality and work must incorporate knowledge of macro-social lies and the nature of pathology on a global scale. If we are indeed aiming to be receptors and transducers of order and objectivity and such order works through our consciousness and conscience then this must necessitate having objective knowledge of the inner and outer worlds. Consider this quote from a session in 2009:

From Session January 3rd 2009

Q: (L) I have a question I want to ask. A lot of people say that esotericism and politics shouldn't be mixed together, that somebody who has esoteric pursuits - or spiritual pursuits, let me put it that way - shouldn't be interested in "worldly" things. I would like to have your view on this. Have we gone completely astray by mixing in politics?

A: Absolutely and vehemently not!!! There is no possibility of true spiritual work progressing without full awareness of the world that surrounds you. What have we said about "true religion?" Let your curiosity guide you. In its pure state curiosity is a spiritual function.

There's an excellent and brief explication of this in the forward to the recently published 'Cassiopaea Transcripts 1994' book. I don't have it to hand as I'm not at home but as I remember it asks the question of whether a spiritual leader could be in any way truly spiritual and in the position to lead or give advice to anyone whilst this 'spiritual' being lives under and adheres to the dictat of a pathological, lying and corrupt Government that causes endless suffering for the masses. Indeed, it seems to me that the entire concept of what 'spirituality' actually IS needs to be re-written entirely to incorporate both the inner work and the outer knowledge of the seen and unseen political landscape.

 

[kenlee]

So the implication is that the psychopaths must be eradicated. And based on the sessions recently regarding Caesar, we know that justified killing does not make a person bad, evil, or STS. So ultimately the psychopaths must be killed and we would not be in the wrong for doing it, as it is necessary. Am I understanding this correctly?

The only thing that I can think of at the moment is that in the end the universe will make that kind of determination. Bottom line, I think, is to make the world aware with the highest quality/highest density/lowest noise information possible regarding the nature of psychopathy. Then, like in a spectrum, your gonna have a stratification of what people will do to correct the problem in accordance with their level of Being. What I mean is that at the highest level you're going to have people who clearly show the world what the problem is from high quality dedicated research and conscience. Then you'll have at another level people who will protest with righteous anger. At another level there will, unfortunately, be violence and apathy. But, perhaps, if this violence is going to happen then hopefully it'll get mitigated because of the high quality information coming from the top of the spectrum and lessened, and maybe even more precisely 'directed' towards the root cause of the problem instead of people mindlessly fighting among themselves. This doesn't mean that people really are conscious of what's going on within this greater dynamic, its just that, within the context of the bigger picture that's how things will just sort and work themselves out (via the universe) or something like that. Fwiw!

 

[aimarok]

Thank you, guys, for all the energy you put in this work.

 

[Lizziespreparetogovegan]

Let me give you s simple example, not so drastic as a SRT, but quite telling:

One of my lady-friends got a chiropractor fixed her spine. She had a bad posture with her back humped, the pelvis slightly lifted . In the psychological literature this posture is associated to the masochist character structure.
Ok, she got the spinal bone manipulated (in one session, mind you !) and showed up very proud about her new looks. Well, it was impressive, of course it was!

I warned her, that such a rush might not be a very good idea . Well, after a few days, due to the upright posture, all her tension got stuck in her lumbar region (which had been slightly curved so far so it allowed the flow of tension along the back of her legs). She ended up with a terrible back pain, as she couldn't manage to discharge the tension according to her personality trait, which shaped her previous posture.

Therefore, healing must be carried out on multiple levels, with good care given to all aspects, so that they would backup each other, instead of reverting to old, familiar but useless, even harmful habits.

Joy

I think this is an interesting and useful example and in many ways I think our attitude to therapies can be counter-productive and potentially infringe on our progress in the work. I've been treated with an awful lot of different holistic and energy therapy (including SRT) over the years.

Looking back, when I first 'discovered' this arena I would focus a huge and disproportionate amount of my own energy on both the idea that I may have found the 'holy grail' in terms of a solution and would invest my hopes (wishful thinking) that the outcome would lead to some sort of 'final resolution' of sorts.

I guess this may be a potential trap for many who have complex issues and are significantly wounded from life's journey. This of course leads to dejection and frustration as at some point we finally have to face the fact that there really are no quick fixes. That doesn't mean that such modalities have no benefit at all but approaching them realistically and with a commitment to working on ourselves consistently seems to be the key here.

Also, I can honestly say that of all the therapies I've been treated with and self practiced I've found EE to be qualitatively the most powerful and consistently effective. There is sincerely nothing like it in my book :)

 

[nicklebleu]

Thanks, Laura and crew, for this latest session. It doesn't bode well for humanity with all the things happening "above and below": This point really struck home with me - it's a fight not only between 3D and 4D and between normal people and psychopaths, but also between Evil and the Soul.

Hence the recommendation from the Cs to broaden the scope of our work, to include body & mind, the whole world and spirit. The fight happens in and through all areas and dimensions of our life.

 

[Alkhemist]

I've always felt an urgent need of (counter)balancing inward attention with external expansion on as wide a variety of topics as possible, to avoid navel gazing and the danger of subsiding into pure subjectivity.

Seems I got that one right instinctively.

I agree with you here. It seems right to me to balance meditation with research on current events. I hear some people saying meditation is all you need, but they'll be sitting ducks if the SHTF. And those who only look at the news -- well, it would be easy to have a heart attack if you're not breathing or meditating.

 

[mariowil7]

Thanks C's, Laura and Chateau!!!.... Excelent session...

The part about Self SRT and The Work as initially stated by Gurdjieff, was the reason I always

saw with not so much interest the use of External Help for SRT.

And last, the Inner Work and the Outer Work have to walk hand in hand... to make a consistent progress in the WORK!!!.

And to not get TRAPPED in Singular Bubbles (Black Holes)...

As it was evident by:

Q: (L) Okay, is there any final bit of advice, or any last thing to say before we shut down for the night?

A: Just work daily at becoming more aware on three levels
1. Body and immediate environment,
2. Wider world affairs,
3. Cosmos and spirit.

Q: (L) Shouldn't "spirit" go with "Body and immediate environment"?

A: No, it is via the first steps that one achieves cosmic consciousness.
...
A: Exactly. Those who suggest that you must look only within live in a singular bubble.

Great Job Guys!!!... ;)

Note. Small edit to make the quote citation more clear.

 

[Argo]

Thanks for this session. Very interesting again.

Citer
Q: (L) So, are you suggesting that this is one of those, "As above, so below" interactive things? That as psychopaths become more virulent and present in human society, so will Ebola become more virulent in the physiological realm? Is that what we're getting at here?
A: Yes close enough.
Q: (L) So in order TO STOP THE PROGRESS OF EBOLA and any other following pathogens, HUMAN SOCIETY WOULD HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF THE PSYCHOPATHY PROBLEM? The mind virus, the Wetiko virus...
A: Yes.
Well...so I think this planet is in a risk of a big pandemic...unfortunately!
What is the percent chance possibility(?) / probability(?) that human society can take care of the psychopathy problem (and others) in time?

My own analyzes..

Possibility? 50%
Probability? 5%
In Time? Personally, I think is to late.. again, unfortunately!

My guess is that the Cs would say that is "open".

Yes Puck
It's always what they says, the future is open.
But yeah.. objectively, when we talk around us about that.. not a lot of people are awake on this pathocratic problem... never vorgot we are close to 8 000 000 000

But anyway, I still hope my analyzes is wrong.

Yes, the future is open. :)

Unfortunately it seems that this will not be the case. I think that humanity can take care of the problem of psychopaths only if the vast majority of people have extensive knowledge of psychopathy, which is at present moment highly unlikely. Or, maybe if the majority of people "wake up" their true empathy, and maybe then naturally feel/recognize psychopathy and therefore react appropriately. OSIT.

But I also think and hope that it will be done by Cosmos, If humanity does not solve the problem in time. :)