Session 22 February 2010

shijing

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
anart said:
Thank you for sharing this session, the lessons are painful, but crucial if we are to navigate these increasingly dangerous waters. We cannot, not one of us, do this alone and networking is our only hope. Without networking, we are lost. I hope Bob and Sue can receive this information in the spirit in which it is offered and that it benefits all.
I agree -- it was painful to read the account of how everything happened during Bob and Sue's visit, but taking into account everything from the session, and assuming Bob (and perhaps Sue?) will be reading this, my heart goes out to them and their son, as this will likely be very difficult to process. The background that the C's gave to all of this is quite sobering, and I found myself examining all of my personal relationships in my own mind as I read through the session. Thanks for putting this up Laura -- I agree with Brainwave that it must have been a very hard decision for you, taking everyone's feelings into account, but I think this is a very important lesson for all of us given the fact that none of us are exempt from this kind of manipulation.

Addendum: Almost forgot -- Merry Christmas Horus_Risen ;) Be sure to pay some attention to your diet!
 

NormaRegula

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
EBoard10 said:
Btw, if I remember well psycopathy was introduced by the lizzies after their new "Nazi Master Race" plan failed. My question is, was psycopathy already present before or did the Lizzies time travel and introduced psycopaths after their Aryan agenda failed?
According to a C's transcript, psychopaths have been in existence for tens of thousands of years, if I remember correctly. Psychopaths are a genetic mutation - a very convenient genetic mutation and have served their Masters, the Lizzies, well throughout much of human history in making the majority populace miserable and complacent.

Perhaps someone could post the transcript that relates to this.
 

slowone

Jedi Master
anart said:
It seems to me that this was an incredibly difficult session to release to the public. No matter how much I learn about 'the Consortium', their cruelty continues to floor me - it is unfathomable to me. I cannot grasp the limitless capacity for cruelty. Human existence is, by and large, mechanical and we are all subject to manipulations every day in millions of different ways, but there is something decidedly cruel about using 'love' to derail a person, or two people, and, then, the baby - what a heartbreaking situation.

Thank you for sharing this session, the lessons are painful, but crucial if we are to navigate these increasingly dangerous waters. We cannot, not one of us, do this alone and networking is our only hope. Without networking, we are lost. I hope Bob and Sue can receive this information in the spirit in which it is offered and that it benefits all.
Thank you for the session. I didn't know how to write what I felt when I read it but what Anart says, says it really well. They stop at nothing, no depth too low. It also makes me feel that the level of honesty/clarity of mirror we need to use about ourselves and our relationships must be "to the bone".

May the Consortium be undone by their own methods and our ability here to face that which they think we can't.
 

findit

Jedi
That was quite an experience. I can relate to Bob as I'm 44 and single and have been on Match and other dating sites. It suddenly takes on a whole new meaning. Just from readng your descriptions regarding Sue, the baby, the sickness, things breaking and falling apart, I'm sure you guys had red flags going up. It seemed like a lot of things happened in a short amount of time. You really do have to be vigilant at all times. Thanks for sharing. It gives a lot of food for thought. I don't get the impression Sue will come around but I hope Bob reads this and thinks about it and opens up.
 

Vulcan59

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Thank you for this session Laura and all at the château. Much to ponder about.
 

daco

Jedi
Holy s... I must admit that this is very hard session becouse of this women Sue and I too cant understand why she is soo angry,but what struck me is that how manipulation works in so called "love",they meet each other on internet,get married and get child and I dont understand why they must have baby considering that having baby in this world isnt at all good think to do,we must observe objective side.
Well we all have lessons,but one think is for sure when one man want to change his own machine or going to work the control system always observe this kind of people and they put in someone life barriers that person gives up.


anart said:
Thank you for sharing this session, the lessons are painful, but crucial if we are to navigate these increasingly dangerous waters. We cannot, not one of us, do this alone and networking is our only hope. Without networking, we are lost. I hope Bob and Sue can receive this information in the spirit in which it is offered and that it benefits all.
I must admit that this is truth,becouse one man cant do nothing alone.
What will Sue or Bob did after this is up to him,but Sue situation is not likely to change.


But back to session

Q: (L) Today is February 22, 2010. We're two years away from 2012. Whoa!

A: Not to worry

Q: (L) And who do we have with us?

A: Kileia of Cassiopaea

Q: (L) What are we not to worry about?

A: 2012. Much ado!
Well I have question about this answers,becouse Cs in early sessions if I,m correct 1998 in one session Cs told about 0-14 years period about comets and in this session they told that nothing basicly would happen?
If I,m correct about this one.
 

Mr. Premise

The Living Force
Very well said, Brainwave! I second this with all my heart...

brainwave said:
I know how hard it was for you to post this, Laura. You are always considering the feelings and effects it may have on those involved and you do everything you can to protect.

In this case though, by posting the session it provides protection for a lot more people because it provides knowledge even if it is a disturbing thing to learn. I thank you for once again taking on the burden and hope whatever little I manage to do in my own work and lessons helps you and the goals of the group.

...

Brainwave.
 

Adaryn

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
What a sobering session, and what a distressing situation for all, and for Bob and Sue.

(L)So we've got a couple of questions now. Well, this scenario that has been described about Bob and Sue and us suggests either time travel, or as Burma Jones said that they've got a whole lot of women floating around that are preprogrammed and prepared to be activated and used when and where needed. So, which is it?

A: Both.
That should give us pause.
I was also wondering if the opposite happens; ie some men are also programmed in order to trap women. From what I understand and from what I've read in the Wave, where a couple of similar situations were mentioned, it seems they "use" women more often. As they say, "it's a tale as old as time".

Thank you for publishing that session. Even if it's tough, I agree with the C's that it's a lesson for others and that it's definitely a call to everyone to be even more aware and cautious regarding relationships, or potential relationships. And above all, to network.
 

Chu

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
brainwave said:
In this case though, by posting the session it provides protection for a lot more people because it provides knowledge even if it is a disturbing thing to learn.
Amen, Brainwave and Anart.

It is really depressing to see once again how people can be toyed with. It's like we know it, but every time it is reminded, it hurts. It is far worse than "The Matrix". :-(

This situation is suffering for all involved and something I wouldn't wish on anybody. I find it hard to believe that at some level some people choose lessons as hard as this one. But there must be a reason...

We really live in Hell... But it will hopefully help a lot of people think about who they get involved with, and how emotions can even trick "strong willed" people.
 

Mark

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Ailén said:
It is really depressing to see once again how people can be toyed with. It's like we know it, but every time it is reminded, it hurts. It is far worse than "The Matrix". :-(

This situation is suffering for all involved and something I wouldn't wish on anybody. I find it hard to believe that at some level some people choose lessons as hard as this one. But there must be a reason...

We really live in Hell... But it will hopefully help a lot of people think about who they get involved with, and how emotions can even trick "strong willed" people.
Unfortunately, strong willed people sometimes use that will to stay in a not-so-beneficial relationship through the use of various mental gymnastics. Hopefully the session will open some eyes, as painful as that might be.
 

Andromeda

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Ailén said:
It is really depressing to see once again how people can be toyed with. It's like we know it, but every time it is reminded, it hurts. It is far worse than "The Matrix". :-(

This situation is suffering for all involved and something I wouldn't wish on anybody. I find it hard to believe that at some level some people choose lessons as hard as this one. But there must be a reason...

We really live in Hell... But it will hopefully help a lot of people think about who they get involved with, and how emotions can even trick "strong willed" people.
Well put, Ailén. The whole situation is heartbreaking and I really hope that some good can come out of it in the end. I don't know if Bob will be able to find his way out of this one, but maybe it can at least serve as a warning for others.
 

Chu

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Oxajil said:
It's really strange, all of that. Bob has been on the forum and in QFS for a long time I'm assuming, but yet has ''trapped'' himself in such a situation.
Does knowledge protects or only application of knowledge? I guess both and also that vigilance and networking are as important.
But I assume that a quiet guy like him, as he appeared, might have had problems sharing for example that he was looking for another on a dating site. Maybe if he would have, he wouldn't be going through it. Never know though.
I think the key are the application of knowledge and networking. Vigilance would be present thanks to both of these. At some level, Bob chose not to network, and not to apply what he "knew" theoretically. But Gurdjieff also talked about the line of knowledge and the line of being, as well as the difference between knowledge and understanding. To remember this is helpful in this context, I think. From ISOTM:

"There are," he said, "two lines along which man's development proceeds, the line of
knowledge
and the line of being. In right evolution the line of knowledge and the line
of being develop simultaneously, parallel to, and helping one another. But if the line of
knowledge gets too far ahead of the line of being, or if the line of being gets ahead of
the line of knowledge, man's development goes wrong
, and sooner or later it must
come to a standstill.

"People understand what 'knowledge' means. And they understand the possibility of
different levels of knowledge. They understand that knowledge may be lesser or
greater, that is to say, of one quality or of another quality. But they do not understand
this in relation to 'being.' 'Being,' for them, means simply 'existence' to which is
opposed just 'non-existence.' They do not understand that being or existence may be of
very different levels and categories.

[...]

And they do not understand that knowledge depends on being.
Not only do they not understand this latter but they
definitely do not wish to understand it. And especially in Western culture it is
considered that a man may possess great knowledge, for example he may be an able
scientist, make discoveries, advance science, and at the same time he may be, and has
the right to be, a petty, egoistic, caviling, mean, envious, vain, naive, and absent
minded man. It seems to be considered here that a professor must always forget his
umbrella everywhere.


"And yet it is his being. And people think that his knowledge does not depend on
his being. People of Western culture put great value on the level of a man's knowledge
but they do not value the level of a man's being and are not ashamed of the low level
of their own being. They do not even understand what it means. And they do not
understand that a man's knowledge depends on the level of his being.

"If knowledge gets far ahead of being, it becomes theoretical and abstract and
inapplicable to life, or actually harmful, because instead of serving life and helping
people the better to struggle with the difficulties they meet, it begins to complicate
man's life, brings new difficulties into it, new troubles and calamities which were not
there before.


"The reason for this is that knowledge which is not in accordance with being cannot
be large enough for, or sufficiently suited to, man's real needs. It will always be a
knowledge of one thing together with ignorance of another thing; a knowledge of the
detail without a knowledge of the whole
; a knowledge of the form without a
knowledge of the essence.

"Such preponderance of knowledge over being is observed in present-day culture.
The idea of the value and importance of the level of being is completely forgotten.
And it is forgotten that the level of knowledge is determined by the level of being.
Actually at a given level of being the possibilities of knowledge are limited and finite.
Within the limits of a given being the quality of knowledge cannot be changed, and
the accumulation of information of one and the same nature, within already
known limits, alone is possible. A change in the nature of knowledge is possible only
with a change in the nature of being.


"Taken in itself, a man's being has many different sides. The most characteristic
feature of a modem man is the absence of unity in him and, further, the absence in him
of even traces of those properties which he most likes to ascribe to himself, that is,
'lucid consciousness,' 'free will,' a 'permanent ego or I,' and the 'ability to do.' It may
surprise you if I say that the chief feature of a modem man's being which explains
everything else that is lacking in him is sleep.

"A modern man lives in sleep, in sleep he is born and in sleep he dies. About sleep,
its significance and its role in life, we will speak later. But at present just think of one
thing, what knowledge can a sleeping man have? And if you think about it and at the
same time remember that sleep is the chief feature of our being, it will at once become
clear to you that if a man really wants knowledge, he must first of all think about how
to wake, that is, about how to change his being.

"Exteriorly man's being has many different sides: activity or passivity;
truthfulness or a tendency to lie; sincerity or insincerity; courage, cowardice; self
control, profligacy; irritability, egoism, readiness for self-sacrifice, pride, vanity,
conceit, industry, laziness, morality, depravity; all these and much more besides make
up the being of man.

"But all this is entirely mechanical in man. If he lies it means that he cannot help
lying. If he tells the truth it means that he cannot help telling the truth, and so it is
with everything. Everything happens, a man can do nothing either in himself or
outside himself.

"But of course there are limits and bounds. Generally speaking, the being of a
modem man is of very inferior quality. But it can be of such bad quality that no
change is possible. This must always be remembered. People whose being can still be
changed are very lucky. But there are people who are definitely diseased, broken
machines with whom nothing can be done. And such people are in the majority.
If
you think of this you will understand why only few can receive real knowledge. Their
being prevents it.

"Generally speaking, the balance between knowledge and being is even more
important than a separate development of either one or the other. And a separate
development of knowledge or of being is not desirable in any way. Although it is
precisely this one-sided development that often seems particularly attractive to
people.

"If knowledge outweighs being a man knows but has no power to do. It is useless
knowledge. On the other hand if being outweighs knowledge a man has the power to
do, but does not know, that is, he can do something but does not know what to do.

The being he has acquired becomes aimless and efforts made to attain it prove to be
useless.

[...]

"In order to understand this and, in general, the nature of knowledge and the nature
of being, as well as their interrelation, it is necessary to understand the relation of
knowledge and being to 'understanding.'

"Knowledge is one thing, understanding is another thing.

"People often confuse these concepts and do not clearly grasp what is the difference
between them.

"Knowledge by itself does not give understanding. Nor is understanding increased
by an increase of knowledge alone. Understanding depends upon the relation of
knowledge to being. Understanding is the resultant of knowledge and being. And
knowledge and being must not diverge too far, otherwise understanding will prove to
be far removed from either. At the same time the relation of knowledge to being does
not change with a mere growth of knowledge. It changes only when being grows
simultaneously with knowledge. In other words, understanding grows only with the
growth of being.


"In ordinary thinking, people do not distinguish understanding from knowledge.
They think that greater understanding depends on greater knowledge. Therefore they
accumulate knowledge, or that which they call knowledge, but they do not know how
to accumulate understanding and do not bother about it.

"And yet a person accustomed to self-observation knows for certain that at different
periods of his life he has understood one and the same idea, one and the same thought,
in totally different ways. It often seems strange to him that he could have understood
so wrongly that which, in his opinion, he now understands rightly. And he realizes, at
the same time, that his knowledge has not changed, and that he knew as much about the given
subject before as he knows now. What, then, has changed? His being has changed.
And once being has changed understanding must change also.
 

aragorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Thank you for sharing the session and the background info. What a nightmare for you guys!

Hope you all are feeling better, take care. :flowers:
 

NormaRegula

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Thanks, Ailen, for posting the excerpt from ISOTM regarding Knowledge and Being - very timely and appropriate for this and related situations.

And, thanks too, Laura, for publishing this session with the background story and additional commentary from the participants. In something as touchy and emotionally upsetting as this matter obviously was, the context is extremely important!
 

Mikey

The Living Force
Thank you that you still chose to release the information. I appreciate it highly and I can certainly apply it to my own life. A heartfelt Thank You!

Again, you turned a difficult situation into a positive learning experience!
 
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